Dark Days Are Coming - New Funcom Project

[Draegan]

So when people use that excuse for future games like Rift or TOR, you're not allowed to be able to get F13 on them.   

[HaemishM]

I'm sure I'll take that under advisement. 

[DraconianOne]

Random observation: this game could really have done with something like LOTRO's dread mechanic.

[Falconeer]

Agreed. The CoC Sanity check would have really fit the atmosphere. But on second thoughts that concept stems from the fact that characters in the original Lovecraft work are honestly terrified and unable to understand and rationalize what happens to them, while here we are talking about demon hunters going around with shotguns and chaos magic exactly to fight those horrors. In short, I'm afraid it would have been a stretch, and kind of a gimmick for us nostalgic old farts.

[Ghambit]

How much of all this combat angst stems simply from the animations?

[Mrbloodworth]

I did find it odd that for every action, and what looks like every bullet/shot, the entire animation started over. Its not so much the animations, but the playback system or lack of blends. ( From the various videos. )

[Surlyboi]

The repetitive combat animations are my biggest beef at the moment. Like Haemish said, it's got the atmosphere down. From the Romero-esque zombie fight music to the swirling, overcast clouds during the day in Hellmouth. This game has the vibe down in spades.

[Falconeer]

Repetitive combat animations and effects, and lack of "punch" in what should be gunshots and the likes.

[HaemishM]

^ That. ^

Animation could go a LONG way to helping it, but there also just seems to be a lack of interesting things to do in combat. Maybe it gets better later, but most combats I didn't feel like I needed to do anything but back off a little ways and spam my resource-generating abilities until my big resource-using ability went off cooldown, rinse repeat. The mob AI seemed to be "Run at attacker, attack." Maybe it's better in a group, but if the gameplay doesn't thrill me solo, a group won't help because it won't be there when I'm soloing.

[Cadaverine]

Repetitive combat animations and effects, and lack of "punch" in what should be gunshots and the likes.

I don't really pay much attention to the animations, so that doesn't bother me too much.  The sound effects, particularly on the guns, need some beefing up.  I started playing around with dual pistols, and it just makes a plinking noise, rather than a gun shot, when they fire.  It's pretty sad, really.

[Falconeer]

Right? I mean, I am no sound effects engineer, but how hard it is these days to make realistic gunshot sounds? There are lots of free to play or indie games out there with believable rifle or pistol noises, or simply "satisfying" ones. Makes me sad to "plink" with a 357 Magnum.

[tmp]

re: sounds, My first reaction would be to agree, but then on second thought maybe it's not that easy, given how e.g. BioWare got help from another developer in that regard for Mass Efffect 3. Although maybe that was more of 'no point in reinventing the wheel' thing.

edit: but maybe just like animations these are placeholders for the miracle patch too

[Xilren's Twin]

The more i have played the more jarring it is to compare the setting to the gameplay.  I would love a slower paced, more investigation and much less combat structure as i think that would suit the whole secret societies investigating the hidden mysteries of life the universe and everything.  Instead we have a cool setting with some neat quest ideas that still degenrate into wading through thousands of zombies/draugh/deepones along side tons of other "secret society members".  The two ideas just conflict with each other.  Instancing would help, and they do use it, but i think i've only been in 1 instanced area in the started town which was nice b/c you get to do an "avoid laser alarm beams and security cams" bit rather than mow down another 20 zombies.  And i figured out why the general public kept screwing up the summon the raven boss thing; you actually have to know how to draw a star logically.  Completed that one this morning when no one else was mucking it up, but again, instance solves that.  The skill wheel so far is underimpressing me too; still basically spamming my best AOE every fight, about 10 hours in.

I actually think you could have made a killer single player/small group multiplayer version of this and REALLY taken advantage of the setting.

[Kageru]

They could talk to the GW2 guys, oddly enough it does guns pretty well. The rifle looks like it kicks and flares, of course that fits a archaic rifle more than a modern weapon.

Kingsmouth is 8-12 hours of quality content for the patient who completely explore? That's cool, I'd love to explore it... but how much content is it end to end for the game as a whole is the question. Because they face the same problem as SWTOR in that story content is consumed and done. Doubly so because "mystery, secrets and exploration" are the first to fade.

SWTOR could at least pad it out with lots of classes whose progressions encouraged you to redo the same content multiple times (and lots of running) but TSW doesn't even have that given their classless structure.

[Modern Angel]

I actually think you could have made a killer single player/small group multiplayer version of this and REALLY taken advantage of the setting.

I feel like this applies to so many games coming out or announced lately that it's too passe to even point out. Because, boy howdy, a game just doesn't have to be MMO.

[Tale]

I WANT to like this game, because the setting is tremendous and it's got the "feel" for that setting down, creepiness and all.

That's Funcom! Launch woes aside, in 2001 when there were only two 3D MMO competitors (EQ1 and AC), Anarchy Online had an epic, original, very atmospheric sci-fi setting, a truly scene-setting intro, great music, but ultimately as hard as I tried to like it, the gameplay wasn't good enough.

[UnSub]

For someone who rages hard against MMOs all the time, you just spent 8 hours in TSW.  Hand in your nerdrage card please.

You can only really only get angry at something after you've invested in it.

[Cadaverine]

Kingsmouth is 8-12 hours of quality content for the patient who completely explore?

I think it took me around 18 - 20 hours to do all the quests, collect all the exploration achieves, etc. in Kingsmouth.  Mind you, that includes a lot of wasted time running around looking for things, searching the internet for clues to quests, etc.  If I were to do it now, It'd probably take half that, at most.

[HaemishM]

Instancing would help, and they do use it, but i think i've only been in 1 instanced area in the started town which was nice b/c you get to do an "avoid laser alarm beams and security cams" bit rather than mow down another 20 zombies. 

I fucking HATED that quest. To the point that I stopped playing the beta when I kept tripping the bombs in the middle. I did come back to the game and finish that quest out later, but that quest got irritating. The controls are not responsive enough for that kind of "trip, you lose, derp" quest. The star thing was a little more interesting.

[Falconeer]

Anyone tried the Polaris, the first dungeon? I plan on tackling it this weekend with my friends, I heard great things about it.

[Kitsune]

Been playing it, and so far not very impressed.  I love the atmosphere, but the combat, oh god the combat.  I picked elemental magic, which turned out to be just tedious.  Killing just one target takes forever.  So I picked up shotguns, which work better on small groups, and tried upgrading the magic to the point where I could hopefully hit more than one thing at a time.  Turns out no.

GW2 spoiled me with its combat system; I'm used to being very mobile now.  In Secret World, I'll hit an enemy from far away, it will be in my face approximately two seconds later, and stays in my face for the remainder of the fight.  I can't outrun it, can't reposition myself to try to take better advantage, I have no choice but to just slug it out while taking its punches until one of us drops.  That's just not cool.

[Falconeer]

I can't outrun it, can't reposition myself to try to take better advantage, I have no choice but to just slug it out while taking its punches until one of us drops.  That's just not cool.

To be honest, you can. You just need to take the appropriate abilities for it, or maybe the appropriate weapon. Not saying that the combat magically became good and sweet, but repositioning, snaring, hindering, rooting and all is entirely possible given the right setup. Maybe you can't do that early on with every weapon, but the fact that mobility and space awareness are so important is one of the things I liked.

[Kitsune]

That's why I said GW2 spoiled me; everyone being able to double-tap dodge right out of the gate is just so immensely refreshing.  In TSW when you see a monster's area attack coming, it feels like I'm just lazily ambling away from it instead of making an actual effort to move away before the explosion hits.  One of the first elite skills for elemental magic is a 4-second root, but as it's on a 20-second cooldown it hasn't exactly reshaped my world.

[Phred]

Right? I mean, I am no sound effects engineer, but how hard it is these days to make realistic gunshot sounds? There are lots of free to play or indie games out there with believable rifle or pistol noises, or simply "satisfying" ones. Makes me sad to "plink" with a 357 Magnum.

You can buy a cd or dvd now with sounds on it and use them. The movie industry has been doing that since 1980.

[Falconeer]

Monsters area damages are slow at first. They become bigger, faster, harder to avoid due to snares and the likes, harder to see de to environment and the likes. I see your point, but the first mobs "big" attacks are only training you to the concept.

Also, they are implementing double-tap dodge before launch. A dev said so.

Kiting seems to be better with some weapons than other. With Assault Rifles I managed to keep enemies at bay after I got enough skills in the first two cells, but I was totally unable before that. I'd assume part of the beauty of the flexible system is that you can REALLY forge your character based on your preferred playstyle. Want more kiting tools? Check and equip a secondary weapon that gives you some of those utilities.

[Cadaverine]

Got a spare key for the next beta weekend if there's anyone what wants to give it a try that doesn't already have one.

Given away to some lucky soul.

[Surlyboi]

About halfway through Kingsmouth. The storyline is insanely good. I so want this game to succeed now.

[Falconeer]

Interesting answer of a Dev to someone complaining that by reaching the cap (Rank 10 in both roles) in his two equipped weapons of choice and all the talisman he would be at the highest relative power and able to do all the "endgame". The reply touches what "endgame" we are supposed to expect.

Originally Posted by hairlessOrphan  
But of course by then we'll have "beaten the game" with the two weapons we chose in Kingsmouth.

no, you won't.

End-game isn't finished when you have 10/10 in your weapons and talismans, it only begins. You could kill the basic rank 10 solo mobs (assuming you have a VERY synergistic build), you *might* even be able to kill a few of the liars... but you would not be able to kill nearly all of them, or any of the dyna-bosses, or do all the dungeons (let alone the harder versions).

End-game is balanced such that if you want to face the biggest and the baddest, you will need multiple builds and multiple weapons. Some will need a crit build, others will need a purge build, another may need a high defence build ... you can't get all that from just two weapons.

Learn, Adapt, find their weaknesses.

EDIT: More, from another Dev:

Originally Posted by Shazbot  
The missions and story so far have been great. I've found myself wanting to explore as much as I can (which I usually do anyway) and listen to everything that every NPC has to say. The completionist in me will likely force me to unlock every skill in the game.

That said, I'm pretty shocked at how quickly my character has been progressing so far. It was only a small handful of hours to hit rank 5 gear on my first character, and I wasn't rushing by any means. With only 10 ranks and ever-increasing exp rewards, I'm worried it won't take long to fill out 2-3 builds. The equipment/crafting system is great, but it doesn't leave much room for a player economy right now. There isn't any player housing or persistent achievement to grind up and show off. I haven't done any PvP yet, but I have FPS and MOBA games to play if I want a real competitive experience.

So what does TSW have to offer that warrants MMO status?

Here are some of the things I can offer as things to do.

Dungeons (3 tiers - normal, hard and nightmare). The last two tier types are available only at the top of vertical progression (band 10) and the last type is only available via horizontal progression (abilities).

Lore - filling this out will provide a lot of exposition about the workings of the Secret World. If you are a story person (or an explorer) this is worth looking for.

Achievements - Plenty of these to do and plenty of these that tie into content in interesting ways. For example - each sabotage mission has an achievement called "Unseen" attached (not in the current beta). Complete the sabotage without being seen and receive the achievement. Complete them all without being seen and...extra stuff happens. Many achievements reward you with clothing, so no, while there is not a player house to display trophies in, you can display your awesome on your character.

Persistent PvP - Competitive PvP this ain't. Taking to the streets of Fusang for faction pride is fun and rewarding. There is a meta-game involved - tactical decisions have to be made on the fly and you'll be able to play alone or a whole lot of people (commonly known as a zerg :P)

RP - We have some cool places setup for RP in the world, if you are into that kind of thing. Dancefloor in London and Theatre are two that come to mind.

Apart from that we have plans for regular updates with new content which includes new missions (investigations) and weapons e.t.c

Hopefully that answers some of your question.

The second part is pure advertising and typical MMORPG stuff, so not really exciting. If I didn't know what the game has to offer "before" endgame, I'd be worried by that Dev post.


Finally, a very weird Dev post in response to someone saying that GW2 animations look so much better that explains why Secret World's ones look stiff (according to them). Basically, it's because you can cast all abilities on the move, preventing them from being able to do cool stuff with it due to the lower part of the body being busy "running". That's why the Age of Conan fatalities (same team) were so awesome in comparison, you were rooted in place for the duration of the animation.  

Double tap dodge is coming (has been for a while, but we needed some animation time on it).

I do disagree with you about GW2 anims. They use bonemasking the same way we do, watch your character casting spells while strafing and you'll see that the lower body does not move (which is what causes the stiffness).

I also disagree with you about their jumps - I paid very close attention to their human anims when I tested their beta and it is pretty much the same as ours.

Now the fantasy races like Charr, sure. They can hardly be described as realistic though

Note - not attacking GW2 here, I just did a pretty comprehensive study when I got my chance.

 

[Phred]

To those complaining  that the second free weekend doesn't give you much over the previous one.

Starting May 18th this week we are kicking off our second Beta Weekend for The Secret World! “Kingsmouth Calling, Part Two” contains new storylines, missions and characters not present in the previous Beta Weekend and will run from May 18th at 9am PST and lasts until Sunday May 20th at 11.59pm PST.

[tmp]

End-game is balanced such that if you want to face the biggest and the baddest, you will need multiple builds and multiple weapons. Some will need a crit build, others will need a purge build, another may need a high defence build ... you can't get all that from just two weapons.

Learn, Adapt, find their weaknesses.

Sounds like wishful thinking on their part, in the sense it seems to willingly overlook the factor that's having a group of people tackle that content, meaning much higher probability someone will have 'required build' in their two weapons arsenal. Unless they're stacking it to some ridiculous degree that'd require everyone in the group to be skilled in and do one and the same thing against particular boss... which in turn doesn't sound like much fun.

[Falconeer]

I totally agree it sounds like wishful thinking. It sounds like they really want the game to work like that, and they really put so much effort into making sure it works like that. Then again, players always find a way to screw with your clever design and exploit your mechanics, and while I really hope this won't be the case, I would be really surprised to see developers preemptively outsmart the players.

[Miasma]

To those complaining  that the second free weekend doesn't give you much over the previous one.

Starting May 18th this week we are kicking off our second Beta Weekend for The Secret World! “Kingsmouth Calling, Part Two” contains new storylines, missions and characters not present in the previous Beta Weekend and will run from May 18th at 9am PST and lasts until Sunday May 20th at 11.59pm PST.

No it's still a valid complaint.  "Storylines, missions and characters" are all redundant, it is just going to let you do the quests in the same zone, with the same faction, that were artificially locked last weekend.  Doesn't really matter for me though, I've already decided to buy the game and I want to save all the rest of the content for launch so I won't be playing any more beta.

Does anyone know how many zones like Kingsmouth there actually are?  Their website "Locations" page seems to just list a bunch of the dungeons we can't do.

[Falconeer]

Good question. I know of Kingsmouth (1st zone), Savage Coast (2nd zone), Blue Mountain (3rd zone), Egypt, Transylvania so far. I am sure there's more but I can't tell from website and wikis what is a full zone and what is a dungeon of some sort.

EDIT: Blue Mountain is the 3rd zone.

[Miasma]

Well that's good, I thought blue mountain was just a dungeon since it's being built up as a mine in Kingsmouth.

[Draegan]

Their animation excuse seems like a load of bullshit.