Ask a raider!

[Nonentity]

Hi! I'm Nonentity, a troll shaman. Trolls are the best race in the game. Not for their racial abilities, but for their sheer awesomeness.

If you wanna ask a question about raiding, feel free. I will tell you how terrible it is.

My street cred is that my guild is currently in Coilfang, working towards Lady Vashj. I was there for the first Kel'Thuzad kill (we were like, rank 8 worldwide or something).

But I've done plenty of it, and beat my stupid head against a wall enough to say that I know it pretty damn well.

If any other raiders here wanna chime in, feel free.

Ask away!

[Xanthippe]

Here's my question:  Why do people raid?

[Nonentity]

That's kind of a difficult question to ask, as it's completely based on personality.

There are a few different kinds of people:

- The people that raid because they love the sense of getting a bunch of people together, getting them to coordinate properly, and completing and achieving goals. These people need to be punched in the face.
- The people that are the same as the above, but lust over being the first to kill something, over other guilds/server/world first/whatever. Also facepunch-worthy.
- I raid for gear to PvP better, because some upgrades are only obtainable through raiding. I hate raiding, I really and desperately do. I know plenty of other PvPers agree with me.
- There are people who raid because they have nothing better to do while they wait for the next big thing. I know we have a couple of guys who do this. I also am doing this.

Either way, I think it's a stupid part of MMOs and desperately needs to change. That much of a time sink and investment is just flat out stupid.

[Threash]

- I raid for gear to PvP better, because some upgrades are only obtainable through raiding. I hate raiding, I really and desperately do. I know plenty of other PvPers agree with me.

Ok, before BC that was why i raided but now? i hate raiding, but now theres absolutely no reason too! the pvp gear is vastly superior for pvp while the pve gear is better for pve like it should be.  I don't know what you could possibly need from raiding that is better than the pvp gear.

[bhodi]

Wow, it's like raid discussion on the official forums.

[Morat20]

It burns when I urinate. Is that a sign of frequent raiding?

[Miasma]

- What qualities should I look for in a good poopsock?  Synthetic/Natural fibres?
- If my mom refuses to bring food to me what can kind of provisions can I keep at my desk that won't go rotten, trailmix?
- What are the best excuses to use for missing work the day after a very long night of wiping (I'll use these if I ever get a job)?
- What brand of air deodorizers are best at covering up the scent of rancid cat litter combined with body odour and putrefying Mountain Dew Code Red?
- In the unlikely event that I am forced to go outside is there a good website that I could print out raid strats from so that I could at least be reading about the game?
- Red Bull versus Ballz energy drink - do we have a definitive answer as to which is superior yet?

[Damn Dirty Ape]

What's the best alcoholic beverage to consume during a raid to dull the pain but doesn't lead to passing out before the raid ends?

[Kail]

How does one get into a raiding guild?  The only guilds I've ever been in I've found from the general Guild Recruitment channel, or just via random "plz Join me guild" tells, and that tends... to not turn out so well (as in, they rarely even do 5-mans, and I don't think anyone's ever tried to organize a raid in one).

[Rasix]

How does one get into a raiding guild?  The only guilds I've ever been in I've found from the general Guild Recruitment channel, or just via random "plz Join me guild" tells, and that tends... to not turn out so well (as in, they rarely even do 5-mans, and I don't think anyone's ever tried to organize a raid in one).

Prereq: max level.

1. Find their website and apply (if they're looking for new members).  You can usually find the site through your realm board, through Google, or by just asking a member.  If you're not even sure who the raid guilds are.. usually each realm board has a content progression thread.

2. Jump through hoops if they accept your app.  If your gear sucks and you're not a healer, you may get rejected offhand.

Hoop jumping usually requires: grouping with guild members, attending raids (on time) where they don't let you do anything but sit outside the instance, get keyed for raids, and generally not appearing to be one of the following: suck up, n00b, loot whore, jackass, pussy, or moron (this does not apply if you're female).  This may take a couple weeks.

3. You're accepted and now a usually a "lesser" member until you're deemed worthy.

Bingo.

[Xanthippe]

I would love to see the numbers on how many people actually enjoy Blizzard's system of raiding. 

I don't to the point where I'd rather not play if the only thing to do to get better equipment is to raid.

Maybe that explains my lack of motivation to log in lately.

[pants]

Prereq: max level.

etc etc.

You forgot to mention being attuned/keyed for all the raiding zones - noone likes backflagging new members - which is not a small amount of work in BC.

Question.  Does consumable usage suck as much as what people are bitching about?  My guild is stumbling along at the Moroes/Maiden level of Kara - so we haven't hit the serious raids yet.  Do you really need to spend 1-2 hours picking herbs for every 1 hour of raiding?

[Modern Angel]

I actually enjoy it (this is the important part) to a point. The problem with BC raiding is that from about the middle of Karazhan on it requires a level of skill or time commitment that I'm not willing to give anymore. While Molten Core may have been much maligned it was a great thing to do on a Friday night with your entire guild. Not everyone's cup of tea, granted, but it wasn't onerous. That doesn't exist in TBC.

[Modern Angel]

Prereq: max level.

etc etc.

You forgot to mention being attuned/keyed for all the raiding zones - noone likes backflagging new members - which is not a small amount of work in BC.

Question.  Does consumable usage suck as much as what people are bitching about?  My guild is stumbling along at the Moroes/Maiden level of Kara - so we haven't hit the serious raids yet.  Do you really need to spend 1-2 hours picking herbs for every 1 hour of raiding?

Yes until 2.1. Gruul forward is tuned for massive consumable usage (massive being a relative term in Gruul's case) and it ramps up exponentially until the first boss in SSC requires huge consumable usage from top to bottom from what I hear.

[Paelos]

I like raiding with people to basically have a good time, kill some new stuff, and basically have something to do on a weeknight that's not farming or watching sucky TV. As for killing things first, I'll pass. Killing all your time to stay ahead of other people with little outside social interaction isn't on my list of lifegoals, nor should it be on anyone's list who actually enjoys reality. Some people do not.

I hate certain aspects of raiding. I hate that Blizzard favors ranged fighters so much over melee fighters. I hate that to roster a raid I have to bring a defined number of classes because the fight requires it. I hate that healing is so boring in raids that people hate doing it. I hate grinding consumables to be remotely competative early in the learning curve of an encounter. I hate that 1-2 Tier pieces of loot drops off a boss, and that boss has a weeklong lockout. Even with perfect drops, it'll be 6 months before all my raid ever sees a full set because of that horrific fact.

[Nonentity]

- I raid for gear to PvP better, because some upgrades are only obtainable through raiding. I hate raiding, I really and desperately do. I know plenty of other PvPers agree with me.

Ok, before BC that was why i raided but now? i hate raiding, but now theres absolutely no reason too! the pvp gear is vastly superior for pvp while the pve gear is better for pve like it should be.  I don't know what you could possibly need from raiding that is better than the pvp gear.

You are correct, that is the reason I raided prior to this.

As of right now, however, I'm actually raiding much, much less then I used to, as I quietly level alts, and wait for the impending slaughter of PVP based MMOs to come out.

I've had a candid conversation with some of the officers in real life, and they even agree with me that the raiding is bullshit, as the reward curve has been lowered so greatly, that it isn't even worth it to raid at this point in time.

It burns when I urinate. Is that a sign of frequent raiding?

Yes. Play 3 hours of Bejeweled and call me in the morning.

- What qualities should I look for in a good poopsock?  Synthetic/Natural fibres? Poopsocking is bad. Just install a toilet near your computer.
- If my mom refuses to bring food to me what can kind of provisions can I keep at my desk that won't go rotten, trailmix? Trail Mix, canned nuts, chips. Beef jerky is good for protein, so you can spam your 2 button more.
- What are the best excuses to use for missing work the day after a very long night of wiping (I'll use these if I ever get a job)? "I was busy slaying a very important dargon over the internets, please let me sleep"
- What brand of air deodorizers are best at covering up the scent of rancid cat litter combined with body odour and putrefying Mountain Dew Code Red? They have this one that actually kills the germs that cause odor, so it makes your room scentless. It's good, so people don't think you're covering up a scent.
- In the unlikely event that I am forced to go outside is there a good website that I could print out raid strats from so that I could at least be reading about the game? Bosskillers.com is pretty damn good.
- Red Bull versus Ballz energy drink - do we have a definitive answer as to which is superior yet? Diet Pepsi is my drug of choice, so I don't know.

What's the best alcoholic beverage to consume during a raid to dull the pain but doesn't lead to passing out before the raid ends?

No, you don't understand. You WANT to pass out. It will make your misery end sooner.

Take your pick. Something ghetto, like Mickeys.

How does one get into a raiding guild?  The only guilds I've ever been in I've found from the general Guild Recruitment channel, or just via random "plz Join me guild" tells, and that tends... to not turn out so well (as in, they rarely even do 5-mans, and I don't think anyone's ever tried to organize a raid in one).

Ask around, find the uber guild on your server. Go to their website and fill our their application.

[Threash]

Chances are if you never raided before you are not going to be geared well enough to join any uber guild.  If you just hit 70 and have done a few 5 mans, but you are far from having your complete blue set or being keyed for every heroic your best bet is to join a guild that hasnt started raiding yet but is planning too.  Theres a lot more wiping involved but at least you are on even ground with everyone else rather than being the scrub in half greens.

[Jayce]

That's kind of a difficult question to ask, as it's completely based on personality.

There are a few different kinds of people:

- The people that raid because they love the sense of getting a bunch of people together, getting them to coordinate properly, and completing and achieving goals. These people need to be punched in the face.
- The people that are the same as the above, but lust over being the first to kill something, over other guilds/server/world first/whatever. Also facepunch-worthy.
- I raid for gear to PvP better, because some upgrades are only obtainable through raiding. I hate raiding, I really and desperately do. I know plenty of other PvPers agree with me.
- There are people who raid because they have nothing better to do while they wait for the next big thing. I know we have a couple of guys who do this. I also am doing this.

Either way, I think it's a stupid part of MMOs and desperately needs to change. That much of a time sink and investment is just flat out stupid.

I get the impression that being able to type this post without seeming like a whiner is what this topic was started for.

I mean come on, you were #8 to finish Naxx but you hate raiding?  Sounds pretty love/hate to me.  Gear to PvP better?  I'm sorry, but WoW PvP might be a lot of things, but worth doing something you hate for is not one of them.

[rk47]

Assuming you have full raid buff and best spell critical gear how high can a shaman lightning bolt spell critical rating get? (11% from talent included)

[schild]

Holy shit. How did I end up in here? That's the last time I click on the Last Posted In button without looking at the thread.

Raids are clownshoes. I don't see why it's worth discussing.

* schild shuts the door on the way out.

[sinij]

Is it worth pretending to be promiscuous female to get into raiding guild and/or beg for loot out of turn?
Where can you get good program that will scramble voice to appear more female-like?
One uber dagger drops, someone ninjas it and disenchants it, what happens next?

[Ratadm]

My street cred is that my guild is currently in Coilfang, working towards Lady Vashj. I was there for the first Kel'Thuzad kill (we were like, rank 8 worldwide or something).

Not even close, USA Horde 8th probably but definitely not world 8th nor world horde 8th.

[Fabricated]

Holy shit. How did I end up in here? That's the last time I click on the Last Posted In button without looking at the thread.

Raids are clownshoes. I don't see why it's worth discussing.

* schild shuts the door on the way out.

Did you just emote?

Anyway, I'll ask some stuff too:

-How is your guild feeling about the loot progression in BC? Even the stuff in the Black Temple doesn't seem to be all that huge of an upgrade over the raid before it.
-Speaking of that shallow loot curve, after you get geared well enough to clear Karazhan without much trouble, is a lot of gearing still required to move on to Gruul/Mag/SSC/The Eye?

[Lum]

Where can you get good program that will scramble voice to appear more female-like?

You mean voice fonts. Some are here.

[Nonentity]

My street cred is that my guild is currently in Coilfang, working towards Lady Vashj. I was there for the first Kel'Thuzad kill (we were like, rank 8 worldwide or something).

Not even close, USA Horde 8th probably but definitely not world 8th nor world horde 8th.

You are totally correct. I typed that wrong. I meant USA Horde 8th. Nihilum was World 1st.

I get the impression that being able to type this post without seeming like a whiner is what this topic was started for.

I mean come on, you were #8 to finish Naxx but you hate raiding?  Sounds pretty love/hate to me.  Gear to PvP better?  I'm sorry, but WoW PvP might be a lot of things, but worth doing something you hate for is not one of them.

You'd be very surprised the kind of walking contradiction that raiding turns you into, let along BECOMING ONE.

Holy shit. How did I end up in here? That's the last time I click on the Last Posted In button without looking at the thread.

Raids are clownshoes. I don't see why it's worth discussing.

* schild shuts the door on the way out.

IM SORRY SCHILD. Yes they are. Stop stalking me.

Is it worth pretending to be promiscuous female to get into raiding guild and/or beg for loot out of turn? No. The master stalkers of the interweb will find you out and gkick you as soon as they find out you don't have breasts.
Where can you get good program that will scramble voice to appear more female-like? Lum has that covered. Lum, that is very scary. Don't post things like that.
One uber dagger drops, someone ninjas it and disenchants it, what happens next? I don't know, it's never happened to me. I kind of want to see it happen. I've seen it happen with more minor things, and people somewhat flipping out. It's fun.

Anyway, I'll ask some stuff too:

-How is your guild feeling about the loot progression in BC? Even the stuff in the Black Temple doesn't seem to be all that huge of an upgrade over the raid before it.
-Speaking of that shallow loot curve, after you get geared well enough to clear Karazhan without much trouble, is a lot of gearing still required to move on to Gruul/Mag/SSC/The Eye?

I don't know how some of us feel, but the loot progression curve has dropped dramatically. They're attempting to try to compensate for it by adding itemization with weird effects. Take a look at some of the Black Temple faction class rings, that's the kind of stuff I think they're gonna go for.

Gruul can be finished with BC blues, after the nerf they did to the shatter effect. It's pretty good. Some gearing up in Kara will be needed to do Mag (stuff like getting tanks and healers stuff, DPS isn't as important). SSC will need most of the raid members in a decent chunk of Kara loot, but honestly, for the most part, I've been healing SSC using old Naxx Tier 3 gear, with a mix of BC blues. The gear curve just really isn't that significant, it's a minor, minor upgrade at best.

[Paelos]

I've got a question. What do you think about the type of encounters that Blizzard has put in the same instance. For example, the need for a ton of healing on Maulgar vs. the ton of DPS on Gruul in the same place? Did you do a lot of swapping to compensate for certain encounters across certain instances?

[Ratadm]

I'm curious what percent burnout you see in high end raiding post tbc?  Also I'm curious if you recognize my name.

[Ironwood]

Where can you get good program that will scramble voice to appear more female-like?

You mean voice fonts. Some are here.

I don't know what's worse :  That product or the casual way it's thrown into a raiding thread.  Shame, Lum, shame.

[Furiously]

Where can you get good program that will scramble voice to appear more female-like?

You mean voice fonts. Some are here.

I don't know what's worse :  That product or the casual way it's thrown into a raiding thread.  Shame, Lum, shame.

You naughty minx Lum!

[SurfD]

Assuming you have full raid buff and best spell critical gear how high can a shaman lightning bolt spell critical rating get? (11% from talent included)

Allowing for Cloth / leather? Or Mail only?

Also, where were you checking to see what rank you were at killing Khel?  and was this Pre or Post BC.  I was under the impression that there was only one or two Horde guilds that actually killed KT when the level cap was still 60.  Would also be interested to know where my guild stands, since i am pretty sure we are still the only Horde guild on our server to kill him at all.

[bhodi]

I don't know what's worse :  That product or the casual way it's thrown into a raiding thread.  Shame, Lum, shame.

Daddy needs an epic mount. Not that epic mount, a real one.

[rk47]

Assuming you have full raid buff and best spell critical gear how high can a shaman lightning bolt spell critical rating get? (11% from talent included)

Allowing for Cloth / leather? Or Mail only?

Anything goes as long shammy can wear it. It's PVE. You don't get hit in raids much.

[rk47]

Dear great Raider,
is this http://thottbot.com/i27926
worth it for elemental shaman who is looking for mana pool longetivity in raid?

[Ratadm]

Also, where were you checking to see what rank you were at killing Khel?  and was this Pre or Post BC.  I was under the impression that there was only one or two Horde guilds that actually killed KT when the level cap was still 60.  Would also be interested to know where my guild stands, since i am pretty sure we are still the only Horde guild on our server to kill him at all.

www.worldofraids.com i think had pre-tbc rankings.  More than two horde guilds killed Kel'thuzad while the level cap was 60.  Overrated beat everybody by like a month horde side on the US then Blood Legion on Illidan got second beating out some other guild who I forgot by like a day.  On Illidan alone there were two horde guilds that kill kt, Blood Legion (who I was a member of) and Team Ice (which Nonentity is a member of).

[Trouble]

I think a lot of people have views of raiding and raiding guilds because a lot of them have people that are annoying. Raiding is great when you're with a great group of people. Working together to beat difficult encounters is very rewarding when you've been able to make steady progress and not get cockblocked.