How to have the most fun in the Warhammer universe (if you have friends).

[Kitsune]

Usually I don't shill for things, but my gamer geek friends and I've been having a really good time with the pen 'n paper Warhammer RPG.  It has a very competent set of rule mechanics, (which ironically is more freeform and less tactical wargame-ish than the D20 system) a level-less character progression that involves switching around professions to raise a character's skills and stats, and a good magic system that has no constraints whatsoever on casting as many spells as a caster feels like casting.  (With the caveat that casting spells can make the caster go insane or be devoured by Chaos.)

If you have a decent group of roleplaying buddies, it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll have more fun with this than you would with putting up with the giant horde of retards likely to be in the online game.  I won't subject everyone to the wall of text of a full-out review of the pen and paper game, plus I'm lazy, so I'll just link to a better review than I would've written anyhow, here.

[Tannhauser]

I'll second his recommendation.  I've been running a campaign for a good long while now.  I think it's the best system out there, blows 3.5 out of the water.

1. Combat is tactical but easy to resolve.
2. Combat is deadly.  A goblin with a lucky crit can kill the mightiest warrior.
3. Magic is easy and powerful, there are balances in that each mage will only have a handful of spells.
4. Interesting world with a different flavor than standard DND.

Cons
1. Books cost are higher than industry average.  Games Workshop caters to the wealthy gamers.
2. The books are chock FULL of fluff.  Half of the 'monster manual' is almost completely useless lore.

I strongly recommend this system, it's got 'realistic' combat for the most part that resolves fairly quickly and some of the 'classes' are a hoot.  Rat Catcher anyone?

[Azazel]

I don't have the current/updated version, instead having this



but assuming the newest editions are just building on the old system and updating the background/fluff, then I also strongly recommend it.

[Kitsune]

Cons
1. Books cost are higher than industry average.  Games Workshop caters to the wealthy gamers.

Very true, I suggest getting the books online rather than at a bookstore.  The online booksellers are selling them for about 30% off cover price, which makes them much more palatable.  As with anything involved with Games Workshop, the books aren't cheap.  In my group, we have two copies of the main rulebook, one copy of the bestiary (for the GM), and the GM screen (ditto), one copy of the magic sourcebook (for me, 'cause I'm playing a spellcaster), and one copy of the equipment sourcebook (shared by all).  So it doesn't add up to too much money, as long as people're willing to share books as needed.  Definitely less than the cost of a computer game and fifteen bucks a month.

2. The books are chock FULL of fluff.  Half of the 'monster manual' is almost completely useless lore.

I really enjoyed the fluff from the monster manual.  For those who haven't seen it, the first half of the book is entirely filled with 'interviews' of random people about the monsters in question.  Some of the interviews are superstitious ramblings of peasants, some are pragmatic accounts from mercenaries, and some are very pragmatic lists of what poisons to use to kill the creature from a skaven assassin.  The second half of the book contains all of the actual stats, which the players of course aren't supposed to be reading.  I liked it, but that is a matter of opinion; I can easily see where buying a book half full of fluff could piss someone off.

[eldaec]

I can easily see where buying a book half full of fluff could piss someone off.

I never mind it in a book like the monster manual and when the fluff is in a separate section.

What does annoy me is when the core rulebook is 70% art mixed in with the odd clue as to what the rules are.

Note to GW: If I open a rulebook, it is not for shits and giggles, it is because I wish to know the rules. Go wild with the 'source' books if you like, but I want to get in and out of the rulebook as soon as humanly possible.

[Endie]

I'd have to say that eBay is your friend, and Azazel's old version is better than the new one Kitsune mentions.  Well, in my arrogant opinion, that is.  I found that fights in the new one last foooreeeveeeeer compared to the older revisions.

Still, either is still great: it is a blast when the entire party turns out to be working towards witch-hunters in their career, and the GM has the vigilante anti-chaos bastard group from hell on his hands.

that said, Khorne just needs to make me the right offer.  Every witch-hunter has his price, and mine is a shoulder-mounted assault cannon.

More blood for the blood god... (and more ham for Remedial)

[KyanMehwulfe]

Blitzkrieg goes the nostalgia upon coming across that cover. It left me an hour down and a handful of dusty Warhammer catalouges, White Dwarfs, and by chance a pair of Elmore-covered D&D manuals dusted off and revisited. How such memories surge when you least expect it. Perhaps fitting considering some of the names I've seen here this night which I hadn't in ages.

[Azazel]

That WFB 3rd Ed/Slaves to Darkness/WFRP period was Warhammer Fantasy's golden age in my opinion.

[Modern Angel]

That WFB 3rd Ed/Slaves to Darkness/WFRP period was Warhammer Fantasy's golden age in my opinion.

That ain't no lie. My brother just dropped an obscene amount of money to gets Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned. Two of the most phenomenal gaming books ever published. Chaos warband time!

Though I have to say that the new edition is great. Don't knock it til you've tried it. The rules are a little cleaner and more streamlined but maintain all of the flavor of the original

[WayAbvPar]

I really enjoyed the fluff from the monster manual.  For those who haven't seen it, the first half of the book is entirely filled with 'interviews' of random people about the monsters in question.  Some of the interviews are superstitious ramblings of peasants, some are pragmatic accounts from mercenaries, and some are very pragmatic lists of what poisons to use to kill the creature from a skaven assassin.  The second half of the book contains all of the actual stats, which the players of course aren't supposed to be reading.  I liked it, but that is a matter of opinion; I can easily see where buying a book half full of fluff could piss someone off.

That actually sounds very cool. It would be even better to have multiple accounts from each 'tier' of observer per creature- give the GM something to use for a template when the players interact with NPCs who have seen the critter.

[Damn Dirty Ape]

WFRP 1st ed. had the best monster write-up I've seen in any RPG book.  It was for ogres.  IIRC, it gave a bit of sample ogre mercenary dialogue, something along the lines of "Oi, slim!  Shift yer starters and we'll make breakfast!" which translates to "I say, insignificant person, if you'll move your troops out of the way, we'll engage the enemy."

I wanted to play an ogre after reading that, but my GM wouldn't allow it.

[Endie]

I'd forgotten those in-character quotes for flavour on each enemy.  Those were brilliant.  I'm away from my house, so I can't check, but I'm sure the 3rd Edition WFB rulebook and army lists had some of the same thing.  I love that approach.

I even liked the slightly over-wrought way that the first edition of Vampire:tM did it, with a micture of "real world" and "world of darkness" quotes.  I thought the 2nd edition lost something by cutting them all.

[Azazel]

That ain't no lie. My brother just dropped an obscene amount of money to gets Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned. Two of the most phenomenal gaming books ever published. Chaos warband time!

Though I have to say that the new edition is great. Don't knock it til you've tried it. The rules are a little cleaner and more streamlined but maintain all of the flavor of the original

WFB or WFRP?

The new WFB might be better than several of the previous versions, but WFB3 had more character and more soul to it. All cavalry could use a wedge! (not just Brettonians). Infantry could form a tortose. And so on and so forth. All of that cool historical and realistic stuff was stripped back in favour of a "unit of cavalry" being 5 guys on horses lines up in a neat row. WFB stopped being a wargame and started being a warband skirmish game. With the warbands being made up of maybe 50-80 men in total, all led by the greatest general in the history of <race> mounted atop their great Griffon/Wyvern/Dragon/etc.

Meh.

[Modern Angel]

Sorry, WFRP. Don't knock the new edition. Very tightly made. WFB is... well, it's better than 40K. I haven't touched my stuff in two years now. I think they're probably still hella fun even if they're not as good as 3e or Rogue Trader but they simply priced themselves out of my market this last pass. I still get that itch, though. I keep hoping their continually shit stock prices will make them wake up but they keep raising prices unabated.

[Kitsune]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention.  They're putting out the 40K RPG in 2008.  So anyone with a Rogue Trader fetish may just have something nice to look forward to.

[WayAbvPar]

Rogue Trader fetish

Is that anything like Rough Trade?

[Azazel]

Yeah, I haven't seen the new WFRP book, so while I'm happy enough not using the one I have, I haven't got anything against the new one which I haven't read.

The latest WFB/40k Boxed sets are a pretty decent deal, actually, as is the seperate rulebook option if you're not into the particular boxed armies. My old figures still work though, and a codex or army book costs a fraction of what a new PC/console game does, so c'est la vie.

40k RP could go any way. It could be great, or it could be Inquisitor redux (which was the previous "40k roleplay.. but we still want you to buy miniatures.") I'm not holding my breath or even going to care till it's almost out and the trustworthy 3rd party reviews come out.