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Author Topic: War  (Read 1923787 times)
Yoru
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Reply #6930 on: February 23, 2010, 02:13:09 PM

Providence/Sov mechanics thread split off to here.
Simond
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Reply #6931 on: February 23, 2010, 04:37:00 PM

Quick summary of a mildly amusing event.

Stain Empire reset IT Alliance recently for roaming wulfpax and gud fites.
This week, IT went "Oh, you want a fight do you? Okay, we'll turn this into a sovereignty war then. Hope you didn't want that region"
SE turned around to their 'close friends and allies' in Sys-K/-A-/ROL et al and went "Uh, a little help here?"

The silence was deafening at first, only broken by a "Never liked those SE guys anyway" from Sys-K as they hung poor, poor Stain Empire out to dry.

Which was fine right up until SE went back to IT and said "Look, this was never meant as a serious thing just a fake reset"...and IT agreed. So they're both blued up again, all is sunshine and roses and sweetness and light.

Except that I suspect that Stain Empire aren't exactly impressed with their supposed 'allies'. And there's a little bit of muttering from the various legacy Russian corps left in -A-, and ROL and so on asking themselves why, exactly, they sided with Molle and how typical it is that the (mostly Eastern European) Stain Empire gets kicked around by the (mostly Western European) IT and the (mostly Western European) new leadership of -A- did sweet Fanny Adams about it.

No doubt that Blaster Worm will find a way to blame it all on the Evil Goons, though. Head scratch





"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #6932 on: February 24, 2010, 11:08:00 AM

Quick summary of a mildly amusing event.

Stain Empire reset IT Alliance recently for roaming wulfpax and gud fites.
This week, IT went "Oh, you want a fight do you? Okay, we'll turn this into a sovereignty war then. Hope you didn't want that region"
SE turned around to their 'close friends and allies' in Sys-K/-A-/ROL et al and went "Uh, a little help here?"

The silence was deafening at first, only broken by a "Never liked those SE guys anyway" from Sys-K as they hung poor, poor Stain Empire out to dry.

Which was fine right up until SE went back to IT and said "Look, this was never meant as a serious thing just a fake reset"...and IT agreed. So they're both blued up again, all is sunshine and roses and sweetness and light.

Except that I suspect that Stain Empire aren't exactly impressed with their supposed 'allies'. And there's a little bit of muttering from the various legacy Russian corps left in -A-, and ROL and so on asking themselves why, exactly, they sided with Molle and how typical it is that the (mostly Eastern European) Stain Empire gets kicked around by the (mostly Western European) IT and the (mostly Western European) new leadership of -A- did sweet Fanny Adams about it.

No doubt that Blaster Worm will find a way to blame it all on the Evil Goons, though. Head scratch


If Goons have any sense, once they get space they will lie low and try not to look like a threat to anyone, as in the days of Redswarm Federation. Fear and hatred of evil Goons is the only thing guaranteed to keep the IT/-A-/etc blob united.

It looks like losing a war is more likely to keep a coalition intact than winning one in Eve, even though that might seem counter-intuitive.
Simond
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Reply #6933 on: February 28, 2010, 11:35:40 AM

Brief war update:
* The implosion of Providence Holders continues unabated, with it looking more and more likely that Against All Authorities will achieve what seems to be their key goal of not having anybody hostile to themselves in the entire south and east of the game.
* Ushra'Khan are busy smugly gloating on CAOD but don't quite seem to have grasped the concept that no sane alliance is going to want to rent in Provi now ("So wait, you're asking me to pay you guys rent and you'll run NRDS but every single one of your allies and masters are going to stick with NBSI? Uh, pass"), and there's ~40 station systems to pay rent on. That makes it, by far, the most expensive region to hold in the game. Nice job breaking it, Butter Dog.

* Cloud Ring -
The Ev0ke version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGGbsCkViUg&feature=related
The Goonwaffe version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMMlwB0kltQ

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Kitsune
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Reply #6934 on: February 28, 2010, 12:08:21 PM

So, what the hell happened to CVA?  Are they just completely gone to be freeing up so many systems, or are they consolidating in a smaller volume of space?  I heard that AAA gave them a kick or two, but nothing about them collapsing.
Pezzle
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Reply #6935 on: February 28, 2010, 12:53:37 PM

CVA is here and we are doing just fine.  I am not sure what 'implosion' is going on, not that it matters in the scheme of things.  What is happening now is the entire south attacking Providence.  From IT in the SW to Atlas in the SE and just about everyone in between showing up to shoot at us.  I am guessing they feel it necessary to push us out before starting the next great war up north.  While I understand the thought process behind such a decision the wisdom of it is lost on me.  The CVA is not going to collapse and die.  For years we have said we are not our space, even if Providence is CVA etc.  We may get the chance to prove it.  

If you are talking about the Sylph drama, that is not something I can help with.  Sylph are not holders.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 12:58:23 PM by Pezzle »
Kitsune
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Reply #6936 on: February 28, 2010, 01:07:56 PM

I've yet to actually deal with anyone from CVA, but Amarr rules forever, so on that merit alone I hope they pull through okay.  It was nice that someone in nullsec was at least putting some effort into working with the game's story.
Sir T
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Reply #6937 on: February 28, 2010, 01:15:42 PM

CVA was landless for years and laid the foundations of a superb industrial machine, and turned a section of space that was worse than syndicate and developed it into a decent rejoin before Dominion screwed everything up.

CVA will be fine.

Hic sunt dracones.
Endie
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Reply #6938 on: February 28, 2010, 02:45:47 PM

CVA will be fine.

I like CVA too, but you need a very broad definition of "fine" for it to fit the likely range of outcomes.

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Sir T
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Reply #6939 on: February 28, 2010, 02:54:48 PM

"Fine" means will hang together, still exist and rebuild even if they lose Providence. Which is taking about 10000 times longer than people on CAOD seemed to be expecting, to be fair.

And Endie, lay off me.

Hic sunt dracones.
Endie
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Reply #6940 on: February 28, 2010, 03:02:39 PM

"Fine" means will hang together, still exist and rebuild even if they lose Providence. Which is taking about 10000 times longer than people on CAOD seemed to be expecting, to be fair.

And Endie, lay off me.

Calm down, Himo.  I just happen to disagree with you (I didn't even quote the first part of your post).

As regards the time it's taking, I think that the SC started doing stuff seriously this weekend.  I'm no fan of AAA as any regular reader here knows, but if they are really pushing in three (empire entry?) systems at once as I believe that they are then that's as good as we're doing in CR with the whole NC against a few absentee Germans.

What I am saying is that you have to extend the definition of "fine" to include potentially "losing most or even all their space and the vast majority of their allies and power bloc and probably a good number of their members".  By that measure, Goons were also "fine" having been booted out of Delve, stripped of Zaf and Rebellion and ending up dramatically down on membership.  I mean, it's fun and all, but that's a push for "fine".  Like Monty Python and the Holy Grail "You Shall Not Pass" sort of "fine".

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Sir T
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Reply #6941 on: February 28, 2010, 03:36:00 PM

Were not too far off then.

To be honest the largest threat to CVA as a long term concern is if the people see all they have worked towards in the past 3 years getting washed away by dominion ( I mean worked towards in a roleplaying sense, as in extending the bounderies of the amarr empire etc) getting washed away by dominion, and people going fuck this. While people might laugh a bit, the whole roleplaying aspect is something a lot of people take really seriously, and it gives them a greater reason for what they do than Epeen. Having that broken by a stupid expansion could really make a lot of people go sod this rather than keep trying.

Hic sunt dracones.
Endie
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Reply #6942 on: February 28, 2010, 04:00:37 PM

I don't think that Dominion was a stupid expansion.  It's a bit of fine-tuning away from being an excellent one, but only the remaining performance issues are a real issue now.  After a year of basically static lines, Fountain, Delve, Querious, Period Basis and Geminate have all changed hands, large bits of Pure Blind did, and shortly Providence probably will, too, if the attackers want it enough.

On the other hand, Pure Bind was ultimately held against Tri et al, while Goonswarm held Period Basis and Querious against big numbers, which showed that numbers could prevail in one case, while a dedicated and skillful defence could also win in the other.  This is way better than it was before.

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ajax34i
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Reply #6943 on: February 28, 2010, 04:16:04 PM

I think it was a pretty bad expansion.  Regions changed hands, but sovereignty/ownership seems pointless and too much of a grind, and the bugs are there.  And, to top it off, their devblogs say they're now focusing on stuff related to Dust 54, rather than fixing Dominion or fixing the bugs.
tgr
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Reply #6944 on: February 28, 2010, 04:43:06 PM

I'd call it a pretty bad expansion. The premise behind the changes might be ok, but I've never seen eve be this unstable before, neither client-side, server-side nor game mechanics-wise. And let's not talk about that damn lag issue...

I've seen literally no change in my gameplay apart from those changes, so that's what I'm basing my opinion on.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Sir T
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Reply #6945 on: February 28, 2010, 05:17:30 PM

I think you are just focusing on Sov Blockers, Endie. That in isolation is a good change (if they hadn't started messing around with the rules and timings). But they are not in isolation. There's a whole range of other issues in combination with them which people all over are enraged about, and frankly deserves its own thread if we are going to talk about that.

Hic sunt dracones.
slog
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Reply #6946 on: February 28, 2010, 07:19:35 PM

A goon undocked in his archon to fight some smaller Cry Havoc guys in A-S, titan warped to station in a doomsday attempt without support in system. Goons, based a few jumps away respond to the call, quickly bubble and start laying subcap dps. The titan realized he was in trouble and logged.

We cyno'd in dreads and motherships, CH responded with an ~18 carrier hotdrop. titan pops with about a minute left on the aggression timer. CH logs off carriers, who were all aggressed. 15 died.

I made the killmail!

https://killboard.goonfleet.com/battles/1754

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Sir T
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Reply #6947 on: February 28, 2010, 08:00:13 PM

Jesus. Nice one.

These days titans are better off fighting it out than pulling a logoffski too. Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

{edit} Heh Its So'kar. I remember him. He used to fag around the syndicate, solitude area a bit in 2006, or the character did anyway.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 08:18:12 PM by Sir T »

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tgr
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Reply #6948 on: March 01, 2010, 12:54:59 AM

Jesus, that's a nice battle.

Odd to just see the one thread about it on CAOD too, you'd almost think goons were being careful to not gloat too much.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Viper ShizzIe
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Reply #6949 on: March 01, 2010, 02:32:37 AM

A goon undocked in his archon to fight some smaller Cry Havoc guys in A-S, titan warped to station in a doomsday attempt without support in system. Goons, based a few jumps away respond to the call, quickly bubble and start laying subcap dps. The titan realized he was in trouble and logged.

We cyno'd in dreads and motherships, CH responded with an ~18 carrier hotdrop. titan pops with about a minute left on the aggression timer. CH logs off carriers, who were all aggressed. 15 died.

I made the killmail!

https://killboard.goonfleet.com/battles/1754

CH didn't log any carriers that loaded the system, a couple jumped as the cyno died and appeared in random safes. The entry cyno was badly placed (45k from the station) and they lost a dozen and a half carriers trying to make it back, was poor timing on the cyno as well, loaded grid just in time to see the Rag pop.
Yoru
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Reply #6950 on: March 02, 2010, 04:46:34 AM

This is not the Viper ShizzIe callout thread. That particular line of inquiry has been Syndicated.
slog
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Reply #6951 on: March 02, 2010, 10:14:37 AM

We took F7C today.  Then we forget to pay the bill and lost it.

does this make us elite?

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Trigona
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Reply #6952 on: March 02, 2010, 06:35:02 PM

A nice graphic from Kugutsumen giving an overview of the current Eve political situation:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Aurora148/Local-Powerblocks-020310-r1.png

And another one from CAOD:
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5346/coalitions.png
Gaiscioch
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Reply #6953 on: March 03, 2010, 06:48:33 AM

--==BREAKING NEWS==--
GoonWaffe appoint their new CFO after a second bill paying blunder:
Comstar
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Reply #6954 on: March 03, 2010, 12:31:11 PM

Wait, after losing the entire empire and dream home, they forgot to pay the bill again and lost whatever systems they'd taken since?

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tgr
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Reply #6955 on: March 03, 2010, 12:41:18 PM

Bill paid, crisis averted. FC onlined a TCU at 2 in the morning, a day ahead of schedule, no one was around before 10am to pay the bill. Yeah, goons are terrible at EVE.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Simond
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Reply #6956 on: March 07, 2010, 04:09:43 PM

Oh man, Ushra'Khan's plan for "What to do with Providence if they win" is so astonishing, amusingly stupid I really want them to win now.
Short version:
  • State a NRDS policy (but have no real enforcement) and no invasions/sov war (likewise).
  • Give space away to any newbie corps/alliances that want it.
  • Reset everyone except -A- and said newbies.
  • ...
  • Profit!

No apologies for using such a tired old meme, as U'Ks level of critical thinking does honestly appear to be on about a par with Underpants Gnomes.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 04:11:37 PM by Simond »

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Korachia
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Reply #6957 on: March 07, 2010, 04:19:13 PM

Yeah, I have read Butterdogs posts where he tries, unsuccessfully, to defend UK's policy on Kugutsumen.. Sanity Is in short supply in UK it seems, and Butterdog seems to be even more of a rapid mad dog, which should be put to sleep. Preferable by a DD into his arse.  

Anyway, whats the status of the SC and CVA war, can CVA still hold out after loosing there entry systems into providence, or is that just of minor importance, in the grand scheme? (I really don't play the game, but enjoy the political squablings quite a bit, so I am kinda uninformed of the true consequences of that particular action.)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 04:23:39 PM by Korachia »
Simond
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Reply #6958 on: March 07, 2010, 04:22:45 PM

Nah, I wish them every success in their campaign just so I can watch the aftermath. It's going to be utterly hilarious when they suddenly discover that, in fact, the Southern Coalition really isn't in it for ~gud fites~ after all.

Just ask SE/C0ven.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Korachia
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Reply #6959 on: March 07, 2010, 04:50:42 PM

He, yeah SC seems to be build upon fear. Fear of an unbalance of threat, which don't even exist anymore with the now-legendary selfinflicted rout(hive disorder) of Goonswarm, even through they do try and make NC into a threat. If they don't succeed, that coalition will not last long. Unless of course they can find another value to base the coalition upon. Perhaps it could be a fear of IT, where alliances in the SC judge that it is better to be junior partners(I cant really see IT seeing themselves as anything other then the senior partner, when you take their strategic culture in the leadership circle into account), then potential enemies of them. Which will be crushed in time, like SE/C0ven. The interesting thing here is, will/can AAA accept this?  It will be a calculated tradeoff between loss of influence, and gain of stability in the south and securing of formal sovereignty. The alternative prediction, is of course that the other large alliances of the SC will strengthen themselves both internally and externally(both will be necessary), and form a new coalition to counterbalance ITs ever growing power and ambitions. Of course if the other southen alliances do that, it will create a classic security dilemma, where their actions of strengthening of their own positions will be viewed as a growing thread by IT and surrounding alliances.. and then you will have nice predictable spiral of events that will lead to showdown of sorts(properly war).

At the moment the first prediction seems to gain support from  the empirical evidence that the SE/C0ven war gives us. It even seems that Molle  have adopted his own version of the Brezhnev doctrine: the "Molle" Doctrine. Sounding harmless, but just as deadly as the Christmas Critters.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 05:00:56 PM by Korachia »
eldaec
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Reply #6960 on: March 08, 2010, 11:01:46 AM

Yeah, I have read Butterdogs posts where he tries, unsuccessfully, to defend UK's policy on Kugutsumen.. Sanity Is in short supply in UK it seems, and Butterdog seems to be even more of a rapid mad dog, which should be put to sleep. Preferable by a DD into his arse.  

Anyway, whats the status of the SC and CVA war, can CVA still hold out after loosing there entry systems into providence, or is that just of minor importance, in the grand scheme? (I really don't play the game, but enjoy the political squablings quite a bit, so I am kinda uninformed of the true consequences of that particular action.)

Losing the entry systems is irrelevant - they can be camped or not camped regardless of who owns them.

Losing stations would be critical, only there are a bajillion in Providence, so even losing the percieved hub probably isn't as big a deal as it would be elsewhere.


Basically they have to stop losing systems through comedy (which is almost the only way to lose a defended system), and keep people logging in until AAA get bored and wander off. Neither of these things are trivial though.

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slog
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Reply #6961 on: March 08, 2010, 11:18:39 AM

Losing entry systems to emprce can be a big deal.  Typically, these are the starting point for the Jump Bridge network for the pipe to Jita.

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eldaec
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Reply #6962 on: March 08, 2010, 11:28:15 AM

Losing this particular entry system is meaningless, they just move the first JB system back one step and pretend that the previous entry system is low sec.


Having your entry pipe camped to fuck is relevant, but that has nothing to do with sov.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Sir T
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Reply #6963 on: March 08, 2010, 11:43:55 AM

You have to remember the start of this was AAA going completely banannas about someone looking in the general direction of HED.

In general you are right though.

Hic sunt dracones.
lac
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Reply #6964 on: March 08, 2010, 12:05:11 PM

The start of this also included new -A- leadership looking for an easy win campaign.
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