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Author Topic: War  (Read 1923319 times)
Endie
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Reply #735 on: June 22, 2007, 06:43:58 AM

Whoever was piloting Shrike...
SirMolle, apparently.

I read that in a couple of places but can't allow myself to believe it, yet.  If it really is the case, then it's almost worth going to his BBQ in Denmark just to ask for a Shrikeburger, very well done.

They didn't want that titan, anyway.

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Simond
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Reply #736 on: June 22, 2007, 07:30:50 AM

Further update: All Goon towers in JV1V which came out of reinforced today (the reason for the earlier battles) are now repaired, refuelled & back on-line.

Meanwhile, the station in 9-9 (BoB territory) has had most of its facilities disabled.

fofofo

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Simond
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Reply #737 on: June 25, 2007, 07:16:00 AM

Weekend update: Lots of skirmishes but no real changes on a strategic level down south, except BoB appear to be moving back into battleships instead of HACs...possibly because of neut arrays at POSes?

Meanwhile, BoB's new pets up north have had a bad weekend.
(Key: Red highlight = ship loss).

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Endie
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Reply #738 on: June 25, 2007, 07:40:46 AM

Yeah, while Bob's performance has been pretty puzzling.  Watching the killboards, the quality of first their fittings, then their ships has been plummeting.  Are they suspicious that we're going to DD their HAC gangs?  Are they biding their time and building resources before a joint attack with MC?

Curse Alliance did great in this morning's battles: I was stuck in the Bob primetime bit of proceedings (that was genuinely a laugh), so didn't see it happen, but it seems to have been immense.  As for that battle in Simond's link: oh dear.  I wonder if Bob's pets have the money to hire back Mercenary Coalition?  Because that is a turkey shoot.  21 survivors from a fleet of 166 ships, including 2 dreads and 51 battleships down?  That's give up and go home stuff.

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
Slayerik
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Reply #739 on: June 25, 2007, 09:39:59 AM

FATAL getting beat up again? I was part of kicking their asses outta Drone lands

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Vinadil
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Reply #740 on: June 25, 2007, 11:55:12 AM

This thread may just be enough to get my scared little butt into 0.0 territory.  There is this whole world to EVE that I have not even seen.

You know what we need... a Corp that gives guided tours of 0.0 land.  That way we could introduce people like myself.  With Voice tech you could even have a scenario like, "Ok now look to the left... you will see a Fleet of X Corp being decimated by Y Corp."  I am curious by nature, but also risk averse... so I have a hard time getting geared up to just fly around 0.0 looking around.
TheDreamr
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Reply #741 on: June 25, 2007, 12:05:17 PM

TBH it's pretty unlikely in the current climate that there will ever be "tours" of 0.0 warzones short of actually joining an alliance involved in the war, as typically one side or the other (or possibly both) has a vested interest in shooting anyone who's not allied to them.

If you want an organised excursion to 0.0 and don't mind killing a few people into the bargain I'd heartily recommend checking out some of the PvP courses run by Agony Unleashed.

edit button addict.
Vinadil
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Reply #742 on: June 25, 2007, 12:07:22 PM

Heh, yea I don't think the "Tour" thing would work.. I just think it would be funny to have Tourists in their mining barges flying around taking photos of the PvP animals fighting in the distance... like our very own Safari :).

I will look into Agony Unleashed... the idea of a "course" is interesting.

Edit - Well, I actually signed up for one... the whole concept looks interesting, and their attention to detail is nice.  If nothing else it will be a rather cheap learning experience.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 12:52:58 PM by Vinadil »
Morat20
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Reply #743 on: June 25, 2007, 01:18:15 PM

I suspect the war is going to be weird for several weeks as everyone starts futzing around (probably in disposable ships) trying to sort out how POS warfare has changed.

Everyone is going to be struggling to readjust their fleets for the new system. I expect to see some lopsided losses, or very tentative probes as everyone tries to sort out what's going to work and what isn't.
Simond
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Reply #744 on: June 26, 2007, 06:41:17 AM

Are they biding their time and building resources before a joint attack with MC?
My guess is that all spare cash was going towards a new mothership for DBP, and is now going towards a new titan for SirMolle and then a new mothership for DBP. So the membership doesn't have as much cash to fly around in Officer/T2-fitted HACs any more because those modules are being sold to raise ISK. BoB aren't quite as rich as they like to be portrayed, according to one of our spies which broke cover & rejoined the swarm. Oh, they've got lots of cash...but not the nigh-infinite cash the rumours would have you believe.

Also, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if MC get involved with the fight up north again - they've got a shiny new constellation of their own up there now, and I'm pretty sure they don't want MM/Razor knocking on their front door any time soon.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Endie
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Reply #745 on: June 26, 2007, 08:56:56 AM

Yeah, that spy homecoming thread was sweet.  I took it with a pinch of salt, but it all seems to have been borne out so far by events.

9-9 went very well again, today, btw.

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JoeTF
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Reply #746 on: June 26, 2007, 12:01:24 PM

You guys getting desyncs since Rev 2.0 too?
Furiously
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Reply #747 on: June 26, 2007, 12:03:38 PM

I hear BOB lost a titan....

Yoru
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Reply #748 on: June 26, 2007, 01:30:33 PM

I hear BOB lost a titan....

Welcome to last page. Or did you mean a second one?
LC
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Reply #749 on: June 26, 2007, 01:34:17 PM

I hear BOB lost a titan....

Didn't you hear? We didn't want that titan anyway...


Seriously though, they are just overpriced logistics ships now. Not really useful for anything other than opening a jump bridge.

Has anyone seen a titan pilot other than chowdown recently? I haven't heard of a single Evil Thug sighting. I'm sure the titan pilots are looking for a way to ditch their freighter taxis.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 01:41:38 PM by LC »
Endie
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Reply #750 on: June 26, 2007, 04:56:12 PM

I hear BOB lost a titan....
Didn't you hear? We didn't want that titan anyway...

Seriously though, they are just overpriced logistics ships now. Not really useful for anything other than opening a jump bridge.

If the spectacular lag caused by the jump-bridging done by Bob today - 100 ships jumped into a 250-ship camp and were able to utterly wipe the floor with the stationary, lagged-out defending force - is repeatable then I suspect we'll be seeing virtually nothing else from now on until CCP fix it (which, on past form, they will take months to do).  Waaaaay more powerful than a doomsday in the effect.  After a couple of weeks of abject failures in PoS warfare, Bob may have found a way out.

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"What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
LC
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Reply #751 on: June 26, 2007, 09:38:03 PM

I hear BOB lost a titan....
Didn't you hear? We didn't want that titan anyway...

Seriously though, they are just overpriced logistics ships now. Not really useful for anything other than opening a jump bridge.

If the spectacular lag caused by the jump-bridging done by Bob today - 100 ships jumped into a 250-ship camp and were able to utterly wipe the floor with the stationary, lagged-out defending force - is repeatable then I suspect we'll be seeing virtually nothing else from now on until CCP fix it (which, on past form, they will take months to do).  Waaaaay more powerful than a doomsday in the effect.  After a couple of weeks of abject failures in PoS warfare, Bob may have found a way out.

Our friends at CCP delivered a load of Lag Generator II to us yesterday. It had nothing to do with the zerg ridiculously large number of people you bring.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 09:40:55 PM by LC »
Endie
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Reply #752 on: June 27, 2007, 01:15:48 AM

I hear BOB lost a titan....
Didn't you hear? We didn't want that titan anyway...

Seriously though, they are just overpriced logistics ships now. Not really useful for anything other than opening a jump bridge.

If the spectacular lag caused by the jump-bridging done by Bob today - 100 ships jumped into a 250-ship camp and were able to utterly wipe the floor with the stationary, lagged-out defending force - is repeatable then I suspect we'll be seeing virtually nothing else from now on until CCP fix it (which, on past form, they will take months to do).  Waaaaay more powerful than a doomsday in the effect.  After a couple of weeks of abject failures in PoS warfare, Bob may have found a way out.

Our friends at CCP delivered a load of Lag Generator II to us yesterday. It had nothing to do with the zerg ridiculously large number of people you bring.

Yet again you maintain your position as the lowest signal-to-noise poster on F13.  I didn't say Bob did it on purpose, nor spout any tinfoil theories about collusion or sploits.  I merely said that the jumpbridge seemed to have much the same effect on lag (for those already in-system) as a bunch of dreads entering siege mode, just far, far worse.  The system only had about 350 total, including Bob, which is high but not extreme.  If it turns out that this always happens, then surely nobody doubts that Bob will use it, just as I'm sure that we would if the situation were reversed?  For the past couple of weeks, Bob has been havnig a terrible time of it down on the front lines between 9-9 and 77s: they'd have to be dumb or restrained not to take advantage of this if it is reproducible, and they're neither.

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Simond
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Reply #753 on: June 27, 2007, 01:25:58 AM

Of course, LC will be the first to whine when an BoB attacking fleet gets wiped out when a handful of defenders are jump-bridged into a POS and all the attackers desync.

NB: It wasn't just lag last night. BoB cynoed in a fleet, and the vast majority of the TCF/RA/Goons/etc. ships desynced immediately...and this isn't the first time such a thing has happened with a titan jumping one fleet onto another fleet. This means that it is repeatable somehow, which in turn means once someone figures out how to do it deliberately, it will get done deliberately - by BoB, by whoever has the other D2 titan, by ev0ke, by Evil Thug...and by Goonfleet, eventually.

Edit:
You guys getting desyncs since Rev 2.0 too?
Heh. ;)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 02:43:09 AM by Simond »

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Endie
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Reply #754 on: June 27, 2007, 01:39:12 AM

There are definitely desynch issues around now, and they don't even require big numbers.  I was ratting last night, and when I shot the rats they would go down to about 5% structure then stay there, before jumping at once to full shields, full armour, full structure.  I then tried with the next, had the same thing happen, then the next.   Then, suddenly, they all popped at once when I somehow automagically resynched.  Of course, I was deep into armour, with no cap.  Of course, someone could easily have jumped into the system, scanned me down and ganked me over the same time, and I would have had no chance.

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JoeTF
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Reply #755 on: June 27, 2007, 05:12:26 AM

Desyncs happen since Rev 2.0 pretty much every time and they happen to both parties. Imagine what first batch of BoB folks felt when they realized not only half of fleet stayed behind, but they desynced in system swaring with enemies!

However, you didn't lost because of desync, but thanks to dumb FC. Trying imply that BOB knew about issue beforehand and tried to use it is retarded and will get you answers like LCs just wrote.
Simond
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Reply #756 on: June 27, 2007, 05:39:13 AM

The sequence of events was something like this, apparently:
BoB jumped in two dozen or so ships.
TCF/Goons/etc. warped a large fleet onto the cyno and anchored a bubble.
So far, so laggy.
BoB jumped in another hundred or so ships. All ships already on grid desync (including the twenty-oddBoB ships from the earlier jump). New ships which have just jumped in were fine. (Laggy, but fine).
TCF/etc. fleet commanders think that it is just 'normal' lag and tell people to wait it out. By the time they figured out that almost everyone had desynced form the server, it was too late to do anything about it.
BoB has fun blowing up (effectively) unpiloted ships.

So yes, some of BoB did desync - but the larger fleet which jumped in second was fine (for EVe-O fleet combat lag values of 'fine'). CCP needs to nail this one down ASAP or every fleet combat involving jump bridges from now on is going to to be complete pot luck. Unless the basis of the latest "Need for Speed" improvements is supposed to be "Server half-disconnects people at random times whenever lag is bad" or something.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 05:49:41 AM by Simond »

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Kamen
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Reply #757 on: June 27, 2007, 07:05:03 AM

If CCP were able to create an environment tomorrow that had insignificant lag until 1,000 players were fighting you would see lagfest fleet battles of 2,000 within a few weeks.

A couple of years ago a 100 ship fleet battle was a big (laggy) deal.
Endie
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Reply #758 on: June 27, 2007, 07:10:31 AM

Trying imply that BOB knew about issue beforehand and tried to use it is retarded and will get you answers like LCs just wrote.

I'd be delighted if you quoted the bit where I said anything of the sort.  All I can find is this:

Quote from: Endie
I didn't say Bob did it on purpose, nor spout any tinfoil theories about collusion or sploits.

I accept that English isn't your first language, but that's pretty clear.

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LC
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Reply #759 on: June 27, 2007, 07:59:51 AM

Desyncs happen since Rev 2.0 pretty much every time and they happen to both parties. Imagine what first batch of BoB folks felt when they realized not only half of fleet stayed behind, but they desynced in system swaring with enemies!

However, you didn't lost because of desync, but thanks to dumb FC. Trying imply that BOB knew about issue beforehand and tried to use it is retarded and will get you answers like LCs just wrote.

Of course it was "FAIR LAG" when the same thing happened to us at the battle for shrike's titan. You never saw any goons complain about the lag when it worked in their favor. But when it works against them it means BoB is exploiting it to win fights.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 08:01:51 AM by LC »
Simond
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Reply #760 on: June 27, 2007, 08:09:57 AM

SirMolle said that he didn't desync during that fight.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
LC
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Reply #761 on: June 27, 2007, 08:12:19 AM

SirMolle said that he didn't desync during that fight.

But the majority of the people who came to defend the Titan did.
Simond
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Reply #762 on: June 27, 2007, 08:32:15 AM

As did most of the people attacking it. What's your point?

Also, while you're at it, please provide a plausible alternate explanation as to how a fleet which was outnumbered somewhere between two-to-one and three-to-one by a competant opponent of similar composition managed to kill so many enemies with so few losses.

Either every single other battle involving BoB, TCF, Goonswarm, etc. up to this point in time has been a complete fluke and TCF/Goons/RA should have been bankrupted months ago...or something was up in this particular one. What does Occam's Razor suggest here?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
LC
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Reply #763 on: June 27, 2007, 09:03:17 AM

As did most of the people attacking it. What's your point?

That you didn't care until it worked against you.

Also, while you're at it, please provide a plausible alternate explanation as to how a fleet which was outnumbered somewhere between two-to-one and three-to-one by a competant opponent of similar composition managed to kill so many enemies with so few losses.

Either every single other battle involving BoB, TCF, Goonswarm, etc. up to this point in time has been a complete fluke and TCF/Goons/RA should have been bankrupted months ago...or something was up in this particular one. What does Occam's Razor suggest here?

I will be kind and list some reasons for your losses since you cant figure it out on your own.

- Poor Leadership
- Your alliances are full of BoB spies. (We always know where you are, how many, and when you plan to make your move. This is especially true for Goonswarm.)
- Working for the isk farmers. (Red Alliance's goals are much different than your own.)
- Goonswarm is infested with low quality players. (It's like a giant PUG.)
 

Lag is a factor for both sides.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2007, 09:09:20 AM by LC »
Krakrok
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Reply #764 on: June 27, 2007, 09:22:29 AM


rolleyes

How is it living down under the bridge there?
Reg
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Reply #765 on: June 27, 2007, 10:07:18 AM

BoB people have an absolute gift for making themselves the most unpopular kids in the school don't they? And it's not like they're the cool kids that everyone is jealous of. Nope, it's just a complete lack of social skills. It's the AV club on steroids.
Righ
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Reply #766 on: June 27, 2007, 11:20:59 AM

Both sides in this pissing contest come off as whiny self-aggrandizing conspiratorial lunatics, so its not as if they're alone.

The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
Yoru
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Reply #767 on: June 27, 2007, 11:25:24 AM

Both sides in this pissing contest come off as whiny self-aggrandizing conspiratorial lunatics, so its not as if they're alone.

That's giving them too much credit. I was going to say they came off as elementary schoolchildren fighting on the playground.
Vinadil
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Reply #768 on: June 27, 2007, 11:32:21 AM

Pshhh, the BoB vs Goonswarm war is one of the reasons I am back in EVE... even though I will likely never be a part of it.  It makes for great lunch-time reading, and is the closest thing to Star Wars 4 I have read in a long time.  There are few stories better than the Free Rebellion taking on the Evil Empire :).
Alkiera
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Reply #769 on: June 27, 2007, 12:00:23 PM

Pshhh, the BoB vs Goonswarm war is one of the reasons I am back in EVE... even though I will likely never be a part of it.  It makes for great lunch-time reading, and is the closest thing to Star Wars 4 I have read in a long time.  There are few stories better than the Free Rebellion taking on the Evil Empire :).

I get the same effect, without actually playing the game... I just read this thread.

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