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Author Topic: War  (Read 1923795 times)
Simond
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Reply #490 on: April 16, 2007, 01:57:51 AM

More reports: RISE has had their complex stolen out from under them for four days in a row (and counting) and lost every battle about it, some quite impressively (up to midnight EVE time last night/this morning).

Hope their rent isn't due soon. :)

Edit: I suspect that D2 isn't as close to defeat as BoB's alliance keeps trying to portray them as, either - the further north they retreat, the longer MC's supply lines get stretched (and motherships, while powerful, are actually killable in combat unlike Titans), plus I'm not exactly convinced with YouWhat's ability to hold regions. I mean, the only reason they had space in the first place is that D2 gave it to them.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 02:05:34 AM by Simond »

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Comstar
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Reply #491 on: April 16, 2007, 12:54:32 PM

My info was wrong: Miners with Attitude got booted but is SEPARATE from Gunboat Diplomacy who lost their station to IRON in Querious. MWA was down in the south part of the map. And it looks like Gunboat got their station back.

I think RISE is going down next, if they can't get the complex back.

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
tmp
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Reply #492 on: April 16, 2007, 01:34:41 PM

Edit: I suspect that D2 isn't as close to defeat as BoB's alliance keeps trying to portray them as, either - the further north they retreat, the longer MC's supply lines get stretched

Doubt it's going to work like this, as MC+YW can well base off the D2 stations they take over while pushing north, which keeps supply lines short. EVE isn't Eastern Europe where you could burn your own infrastructure to the ground, retreat all way to Ural and just wait for enemy to bleed themselves on barren land as they try to get to you.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #493 on: April 16, 2007, 01:41:12 PM

And nobody in Eve has more experience in long-range logistics than MC.  If D2's best hope is that MC will outrun their supply lines before D2 runs out of room to backpedal, I think D2 has a serious problem.

--Dave

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Fordel
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Reply #494 on: April 16, 2007, 04:05:44 PM

In the same token, MC is known for it's clear, decisive plans of action, not its occupation of conquered territory. I'm half certain that is one of the things MC doesn't take contracts for, being a meat shield.


The real question is, does D2 still show up with fleets? Cap fleets in particular. LV lost its major cap battle then didn't commit any cap resources to the defense of its space after that point. D2 has lost more cap ships at once and overall then any other alliance to date, yet as far as I can tell, they still seem to keep them coming out.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Simond
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Reply #495 on: April 17, 2007, 03:32:37 PM

News update : Shinra is disbanding - Chowdown and the management/capship pilots are joining RKK, the rank and file are...not.

Edit: More news - D2 has a Leviathan now, to pair up with their Erebus. I think the YW/MC offensive may have a few more issues in the future. (Wild speculation: D2 has at least one more titan cooking, as they've definitely got at least one more Titan-capable pilot.)

This is a Good Thing, because when CCP BoB starts being on the receiving end of multiple remote doomsdayings, nerfs will suddenly appear. wink
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 04:44:36 PM by Simond »

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #496 on: April 17, 2007, 04:53:41 PM

Everything I hear indicates that the political meltdown of the northern coalition I warned about is happening.  FLA has their back against the wall (may not have any stations left), Razor is dicking around in Querious, Morus Mihi is dicking around in Fountain, Iron can't seem to stick to the same strategy for more than a week running (and is losing turf up north as well), Trimuvirate (former ASCN and originally part of the coalition) is attacking Pure, Roadkill/Smash are fighting a separate war against RA, and D2 is fracturing along language lines (germans vs. english speakers) and seems to be just trying to delay long enough to carrier-jump their stuff out of the northwest (leaving Iron and FLA swinging in the breeze).  Meanwhile, there's a stampede of formerly uncommitted alliances cutting deals with BoB for pieces of the north.

--Dave

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Fordel
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Reply #497 on: April 17, 2007, 08:15:42 PM

>>>
News update : Shinra is disbanding - Chowdown and the management/capship pilots are joining RKK, the rank and file are...not.
>>>


That isn't terribly surprising. Smells for the grunts, but grunts always eat it in the end.


Which part of D2 space is going away exactly? That chunk near fountain?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #498 on: April 17, 2007, 08:49:37 PM

I believe they've lost two stations in outer Fade, one to MC and one to -YW-, and the other two are under a mostly uncontested siege, along with all of Cloud Ring (not sure if it was D2 or FLA that had taken sovereignty there).  That leaves two D2 stations at the edge of Deklein, and one (EC-?) in Pureblind at the entrance to Empire.  There's a couple of stationless alliances wedged in there as well (Next Level and Forces of Freedom, I believe).  Primary effect is that Iron, FLA, and D2 are now on the defensive on their own turf, which makes it hard for them to manage any kind of offensive.

--Dave

EDIT: Oh, and FLA has one station left, in Deklein, which is probably next up on the chopping block.

EDIT 2: BTW, I may be over-optimistic.  We had half of the enemy forces parked on our doorstep so long, *only* having 3-4 alliances still attacking us has me downright giddy.  But any way you slice it, the north is in trouble.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 10:40:15 PM by MahrinSkel »

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Reply #499 on: April 17, 2007, 11:22:23 PM

Down south Rise appears to be next on the Southern Coalition's chopping block. KOS got C3 back last I heard, much to my surprise. I think BoB has decided D2 will be eaiser to kill.

Outbreak appers to be siding with BoB completely, and are probably having too much fun to leave Curse for the foresaleble future.

IAC is having some internal issues, which I think is being caused by Outbreak and having a fleet of  T2-ships-only enemy show up on our doorstep and killing IAC defence gangs with ease. The problem is Outbreak isn't going for POSs so there's no great need to defeat them like there is vs BoB et al, so there's little willingness to commit cap ships aginast them.


It is alleged FIX is having as many issues as IAC is, dunno the reason.


Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #500 on: April 18, 2007, 12:55:59 AM

I don't envy Rise right now, they're out on the edge of BoB space, surrounded by hostiles and with a *long* supply line. On the other hand, they aren't facing nearly the numbers we were, and BoB is in that theatre for now.

Outbreak has a lot of ex-FIX (although they'll fight us as readily as anyone, they don't pile on when we're already facing hostiles).  FIX split down three lines at the end of CODA, the ones who wanted a military dictatorship went to PURE, the ones who wanted no part of the politics of alliance maintenance and diplomacy went to Outbreak (which also picked up the remnants of an *earlier* FIX diaspora, we've had a lot of them).  When our admirals get fed up with leading a militia, they join either BoB or Outbreak (the Outbreak ones often come back).

FIX has been leaning into the wind so long on this war, we're a little overbalanced right now.  We had a democratic change of leadership a bit over a month ago, and the new administration just finished settling in.  We got so used to continuing to operate with craploads of hostiles in our space, we have divisions of opinion over whether it's even neccessary to meet the enemy directly when there's no territorial goal at stake, because our methods for operating without space control work almost *too* well, the lower numbers of hostiles we currently face are no more of a hindrance than the ordinary raiders we were dealing with 6 months ago.

Really, our biggest internal argument right now is over whether we should clean out the remnants of the invasion force, or just wait for them to get bored and go away.  The best case against clearing them out is that action attracts attention.  If FIX starts fielding larger fleets, it may draw more hostiles in, and we're still badly outnumbered.  There's also a camp that wants to go offensive, make the current attackers go away by launching a territorial attack on their home ground, in cooperation with one or more of the disposessed alliances still running around.

FIX is filled with individualists, always doing their own thing, and the alliance is perennially appearing to being on the verge of flying apart.  A political condition that in most alliances represents a pre-cursor to dissolution is our standard operating procedure.  We've gotten so used to the pattern of burning out our leadership we've incorporated it into our system, Chairmen serve for only 6 months, by the end of which they're overjoyed to be rid of the headaches.  Before we instituted that system, we had a recurring pattern of leadership getting more and more frustated until finally they left, usually taking a corp or two with them (ESA and PURE are both the result of exactly that).

We recuit and train some of the best PvP'ers and fleet commanders in Eve, then they get frustrated at the part-time PvP attitude of the general FIXian, and leave.  We greet week after week of raiding with apathy, then fight like rabid weasels when there's a serious threat, throwing away months worth of isk-earning in one grand orgy of destrction that leaves the enemy wondering what the hell happened.  What can I say, we're a study in contradictions, I like it here.

--Dave

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Simond
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Reply #501 on: April 18, 2007, 01:40:21 AM

All that speculation is assuming that MC is happy to be double-doomsday'd repeatedly, of course. Judging by historic precedents (c.f. MC's 'defense' of ISS) that's not such a certain thing. If they start losing all their non-tanked BS and fighters every time they launch an attack, declaring 'Mission Accomplished' and moving back down south to defend Feyth against an titan-less opponent would probably sound a little more appealing to a supposedly mercenary alliance.

Unless BoB kick Chowdown and friends up north to support MC, natch.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
5150
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Reply #502 on: April 18, 2007, 05:27:06 AM

Yep FLA is pretty screwed right now, had this been several months ago I'd have cared more about it but I havent played my main for a while now

Unfortunately as much as Mahrim is having a blast I dont see how the BOB side winning this can be a good thing for eves future (no one wants to play a game where winning is for all intents and purposes impossible, and playing as a 'pet' isnt palatable for alot either)
tmp
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Reply #503 on: April 18, 2007, 10:21:24 AM

All that speculation is assuming that MC is happy to be double-doomsday'd repeatedly, of course. Judging by historic precedents (c.f. MC's 'defense' of ISS) that's not such a certain thing. If they start losing all their non-tanked BS and fighters every time they launch an attack, declaring 'Mission Accomplished' and moving back down south to defend Feyth against an titan-less opponent would probably sound a little more appealing to a supposedly mercenary alliance.

I was under impression MC operates mainly using capital ships nowadays, so double DD isn't much of issue to them as it doesn't really kill anything save maybe for some fighters.

That said, there's rumours on another forum that D2 has sold their Erebus, possibly to RA or other yet unnamed party. Either that or the corp which owns it is splitting from D2, it's difficult to tell at this point. D2 people posting there aren't denying it, and if it turns out true then the double DD thing isn't going to happen at least in the near future.

Oh, and "historic precedent" had nothinig to do with titans, but with much larger than their own capital fleet logged off in position to jump MC capitals stuck in siege and murder them all, IIRC. If anything it says MC has enough common sense to not put themselves into equivalent of F-T attack without payment matching the risk, for the reasons F-T highlighted so well.
Simond
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Reply #504 on: April 18, 2007, 11:32:46 AM

Fighters are expensive; and an unescorted, titanless capital ship fleet that's just had all of it's fighters DD'd is more accurately known as a 'target'.
But yeah, grapevine says RA or AAA got the Erebus - either of which should scare BoB a lot more than D2 having it. :D

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
palmer_eldritch
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Reply #505 on: April 18, 2007, 12:58:37 PM

I love this thread. Is there a good newspaper style site which has news about the war? I think this is one of the great things about Eve. Even though I rarely did more than potter around Empire when I played, just knowing that these huge conflicts were being fought by other people (not as huge as this one I think) added to the fun.
dwindlehop
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Reply #506 on: April 18, 2007, 01:08:36 PM

http://www.eve-tribune.com/

Eve Tribune isn't awful. Their war coverage is spotty.
Comstar
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Reply #507 on: April 18, 2007, 09:06:03 PM

For general war news there's 2 places I go:

Goonfleet at War's current thread. Thread get restarted evert few weeks. From the Goonswarm side of the war mostly, but comments from some other players too.

Scrapheap Challenge's war thread. Usually has the news of whats going on where.


In other news, the top two IAC corps are leaving in the next week, saying that after 2 years they're board of running the alliance. This is probably because they are tried of it, but also a lot of new corps have joined since the ISS war and have changed the...content of IAC.

I fear I will be looking for a new home soon :(. Anyone in Goonswarm want to mentor me?

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #508 on: April 18, 2007, 10:10:34 PM

IAC's losing the old-time corps doesn't surprise me, it's the FAT curse at work again.  Seems to happen to everyone who takes FAT, it's oh so very shiny (especially with Zydrine in the toilet) and looks so very close, but it's 20 jumps deep and so damned hard to hold.  Everyone over-extends themselves for it, and the only alliance who ever owned it and didn't break was the one that gave it to you.  Huzzah went *exactly* the same way, the "old guard" split off and made their own alliance around Huzzah's pre-FAT space in Providence.

Outbreak doesn't want your space, but they will eat you alive in standard fleet engagements.  They're backed by Marko's nearly bottomless wallet (he had the CovOps Cloak monopoly, and now has a comprehensive collection of T2 BPO's) and they live to fight.

--Dave

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Comstar
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Reply #509 on: April 19, 2007, 09:52:54 AM

Scrapheap Challenge is saying that D2 is splitting in half, and half the corps are effectively disengaging from the war

Bad math follows:

IAC is losing 20-50% of the PvP pilots
+
D2 is splitting in half and the PvE's are leaving the front for NPC space where they won't be bothered.
------------------------------
= BoB wins, Eve Loses. 

Granted IAC isn't doing much right now, but this appears to be The Shape Of Things To Come. Perhaps BoB's tactic of not concentrating on one target and killing it is deliberate, designed to keep the game going over winning completely and killing everyone, including their own, fun. BoB can't *kill* Goonswarm/RA/AAA, but they may well kill enough of everyone eleses morale to be able to no longer worry about what GS+allies left do.


I hope I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 09:54:59 AM by Comstar »

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
ajax34i
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Reply #510 on: April 19, 2007, 10:07:52 AM

I wonder how much of the current interest in the game is because of the war.  I would assume that (since we're 3 years after launch) newbies come to the game whenever they hear about it, but perhaps news that a big war is going on provides some incentive for them to try it out.  The biggest impact, I thought, of the war, was on the veterans who might be enticed to re-subscribe in order to participate in it.  So, if the war fizzles out, would interest in the game also die out with it?

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Reply #511 on: April 19, 2007, 10:20:26 AM

I fear I will be looking for a new home soon :(. Anyone in Goonswarm want to mentor me?

I fear I don't have the postcount on SA that they'll demand to allow me to sponsor you in. You might try some of the newer corps to join the Swarm, like ARSeD (the Ars Technica guys) or WANG (Penny-Arcade).

Edit: Anyway, yeah, things are going very poorly for the coalition on pretty much every front but Feythabolis. KOS booted BoB out of C3 finally and there's still a lot of pressure on RISE et al., trying to keep them from making rent. The situation is pretty grim for the cause of Not BoB.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 10:22:32 AM by Yoru »
Comstar
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Reply #512 on: April 19, 2007, 10:42:43 AM

This eve COAD thread allegedly gives a list if alliances BoB hopes to deal with, and alliances BoB plans to destroy.

Quote
Allainces on BoBs wish list include
TCF
IAC
IRON

Alliances to be destroyed no matter what are
Goons
RA
D2
Pandemic Legion

TCF is with RA/GOON as RA and GOON are with each other.

IAC survived the McFIX invasions because of RA/GOON/AAA, and IAC would be committing suicide to fight against AAA (who own the 10/10 complexes in IAC space). Though Tyrax is now in charge of IAC so if BoB offered Tyrax 100 billion, Tyrax might do it. (Tyrax is the master of offlineing POS's as FIX can tell you).

IRON I don't know about.

As for *destorying* Goons etc...we all rembember BoB saying Goons were already dead...about 6 months ago. Lollerskates. BoB will never defeat RA or GOON, even if all other hope fades.

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
tmp
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Reply #513 on: April 19, 2007, 11:43:01 AM

IAC survived the McFIX invasions because of RA/GOON/AAA, and IAC would be committing suicide to fight against AAA (who own the 10/10 complexes in IAC space).

Gratitude doesn't exist in EVE especially when weighted against self-preservance, and I don't quite see why ability to whore complexes in one's prime time is some decisive military strength argument. IAC "commits suicide" just the same by declining BoB offer, and this kind of posting that makes it rather clear the "core coalition" that's TCF, RA and Goons sees them to large degree as outsider willing to sell them out for enough ISK isn't likely to make IAC choice any simpler. Or maybe it does, but not in way one would expect.

IRON on the other hand, I don't see it happening. They've been fighting BoB while allied with D2 under one name or another for their whole existence. Would rather expect to see some kind of merger between either half of broken D2 and them, to who knows what end.
Simond
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Reply #514 on: April 19, 2007, 12:02:04 PM

As for *destorying* Goons etc...we all rembember BoB saying Goons were already dead...about 6 months ago. Lollerskates. BoB will never defeat RA or GOON, even if all other hope fades.
Being the Rebel Alliance is  :mrgreen:-er than being the Empire, anyway. :D

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #515 on: April 19, 2007, 12:31:29 PM

IAC survived the McFIX invasions because of RA/GOON/AAA, and IAC would be committing suicide to fight against AAA (who own the 10/10 complexes in IAC space). Though Tyrax is now in charge of IAC so if BoB offered Tyrax 100 billion, Tyrax might do it. (Tyrax is the master of offlineing POS's as FIX can tell you).
Still haven't figured out who paid for the Prohibition contracts, have you?

--Dave

EDIT: I should say Prohibition 1, although Prohibition 2 wasn't *just* ISS
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 12:35:08 PM by MahrinSkel »

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Comstar
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Reply #516 on: April 19, 2007, 08:07:31 PM

Still haven't figured out who paid for the Prohibition contracts, have you?

Last I heard someone did it to annoy Tyrrax persoannly, but I don't know who. So from what you're saying...no I having figured it out. Do tell.

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #517 on: April 20, 2007, 12:56:55 AM

I shouldn't be a tease, but I was never supposed to know myself, and the person who told me would be in a very awkward position if I shared.  Let's just say that you're hugging a viper to yourselves like it was a life preserver.  Somebody wanted to push you into bed with RedSwarm and AAA, and they got really devious, downright byzantine, to make it happen.

--Dave

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Simond
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Reply #518 on: April 20, 2007, 01:23:37 AM

Let me guess - his name begins with 'I' and ends with 'stvaan'. :)
RISE had a bad day yesterday, by the way.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Endie
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Reply #519 on: April 20, 2007, 04:27:49 AM

For all those people getting depressed about how the war on CCP is going, this is a laugh: one bloke in a smartbombing mega pvping bob+pets.  The final score at the end is startling, whether you count kills or money.  He's quite the one-man wrecking crew.  Of course, molle(probably embarassed at the gaps in the killboards it reveals in one lengthy section) complained to his tame moderators who banned it from being linked on the forums.

Also, Rise can't have enjoyed losing this.

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bhodi
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No lie.


Reply #520 on: April 20, 2007, 07:30:33 AM

Ouch. Those things are crazy!
Comstar
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Reply #521 on: April 20, 2007, 07:41:36 AM

Somebody wanted to push you into bed with RedSwarm and AAA, and they got really devious, downright byzantine, to make it happen.

I've always thought IAC was the front man for Istavaan's plot to kill ISS, so if the conspiracy was to hire MC to attack Tyrrax and IAC to then force IAC to kill ISS where MC was staging out of...

if it's true, I hope Istavaan never really quit and is still pulling the strings somewhere. I know the GHSC has been a power behind IAC since it's entrance to 0.0 (at least since Tyraxx joined it and stopped fighting it directly) but IAC losing it's 2 most powerful corps may mean IAC is no longer needed for the GHSC's plan....

There's a movie waiting to be writtin here someday,

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
Yoru
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Reply #522 on: April 20, 2007, 10:27:43 AM

For all those people getting depressed about how the war on CCP is going... (stuff)

Can we cut the BoD shit, please? This is neither Eve-O nor SA. It's a pointlessly inflammatory pejorative, and I've already yelled at JoeTF for doing the same thing from the other perspective.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #523 on: April 20, 2007, 10:52:53 AM

Is that James315?  He's been doing that forever, he got one of my covops during the ASCN war up in the A2 pipe.  It's a gimmick, one that works well as a surprise but once you know to expect it whenever you see him in local it's pretty easy to avoid.

--Dave

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Yoru
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Reply #524 on: April 20, 2007, 11:42:20 AM

Is that James315?  He's been doing that forever, he got one of my covops during the ASCN war up in the A2 pipe.  It's a gimmick, one that works well as a surprise but once you know to expect it whenever you see him in local it's pretty easy to avoid.

--Dave

Yeah it is. And the video makes BoD and T20 jokes later on. I'm sure that had nothing to do with it getting banned.  rolleyes
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