War

[Phildo]

TORMENTUM is ex-TERCIOS, the Spanish alliance that was granted FAT until Vanguard alliance took it from them and handed it right over to -A-.  TERCIOS crumbled some time during the recent war and most of their corps are in TORMENTUM now.

[MahrinSkel]

Executive Outcomes - Used to have an Esoteria station that was taken in the Pendulum Wars/Great War/something war(s). Maybe ex-Ascendent Frontier (quite likely).

No idea on the rest, but Executive Outcomes was a spinoff from the Stain Civil War back in 2004 (not sure what relationship they had to them) that joined FIX when Stain Empire ceded FAT to FIX, then left FIX when Huzzah took FAT (bringing in a freighter load of POS bits and fuel for Huzzah under cover of the safe-conduct they were given to vacate their stuff).  After the ASCN war they became the tenant alliance of Paragon Soul under BoB, and got pushed back to Period Basis after the Tortuga incident.

--Dave

[rand]

Outpost dropped in U-H in LI-BAO, gonna try and sov4 it

[Sir T]

Yeah. Amarr factory outpost FYI. Kenny have 2 weeks to stop sov 4 in I1Y.

{edit} Apparently Mollie announced it to them after DT with the quote "they are stupid they should have dropped it in 3-f"

[Murgos]

{edit} Apparently Mollie announced it to them after DT with the quote "they are stupid they should have dropped it in 3-f"

Which, if true, probably explains why they don't live in Delve anymore.

[Endie]

{edit} Apparently Mollie announced it to them after DT with the quote "they are stupid they should have dropped it in 3-f"

Which, if true, probably explains why they don't live in Delve anymore.

IIt's difficult to justify his line.  It's like he still lives in the days of single-alliance conflicts where locking down a system for a day and kiting five towers into a friendly timezone was a rarity.  I dunno.  There's nothing wrong with sticking a station in a border gateway system.  It was a traditional thing to do for a while, and AAA did it in HED recently.  But it's like he thinks that low mooncount systems really are more secure, even after events like us taking ROL's seven-moon station system in Feyth in a hostile TZ and similar events.

[MahrinSkel]

In some ways 9SBB would have been better (easier non-JB logistics), but I can see why U-H, its main fault is the blind-alley stargate geometry (can leave you locked out of your own system in defensive situations), but it works better for JB geometry (more useful and sensible waystation between 3-F and Z-U or 9CG).

When ED- was planted, an 11-count moon system was a defensive advantage, in this era with dread fleets that can hit 5 moons at once a station in 3-F would be a liability unless covered by Sov4 immunity (and ED- already needs that).  You wouldn't want two low-moon stations in the same constellation.

--Dave

[Endie]

In some ways 9SBB would have been better (easier non-JB logistics)

We like to put JBs between our sov 4 capitals to achieve almost invulnerable comms links.

[Comstar]

We had a fleet up going to somewhere seekret- turns out a KIA tower was going to get blown up by SirMolle and AAA in Period Basis.

We had about a 60 man fleet going on the way when the FC starts yelling "Get of the gate get off the gate get off the gate or you will DIE". We commence a full retreat back to Querious wondering what's going on.

Turns out SirMolle had put a Titan Bridge and a fleet three times our size consisting of Romulen's, Cardassians and Ferengi* about to drop on top of us. The had just jumped into the next system and were seconds from engaging us.

This now meant that SirMolle and co were now in the middle of nowhere and dozens of jumps from the KIA tower. By the time they got back to it, KIA had repped, refuelled and saved the tower. We went back north and killed a Skunkwork's tower without being troubled.


-------------
*- Romanians, AAA and ROL

[Endie]

Massively fun evening: Atlas were spamming Detorid, so when they turned up in HZF, Death and PL hot-dropped them, only to get counter-hot-dropped by AAA and Aggression, leaving PL/Death outnumbered by close to 2:1 (and PL fit for sniping but fighting at close range).  The result was that all but six or seven friendly dreads died, while killing a good number of (but less) hostile dreads.  Fortunately, we'd been told to get into fast ships earlier for a Sekrit op, and were burning there as soon as the hotdrop occurred.  KIA held off Coven for as long as they could while our coalition gang, TCF and KW all got support there.  Soon, we had the remaining sixty or so dreads bubbled, had killed their support, dodged four doomsdays (though not Pnuka's stupid bombing run on blues  ), and were starting to systematically destroy all that was left.

Some hostile dreads managed to cyno out, but most had to ctrl-Q inside bubbles, relying on the manageable but hefty lag to save them (no e-honour nor e-honor, tbqh) to save them.  We killed a bunch more without losses other than to Red Army, who may have been friendly or unfriendly, but definitely got primaried anyway after attempts to speak to them and find out failed.  We replaced the towers that Atlas paid a hefty price to kill (I don't want to come over all Scrapheap Challenge, here, but nobody doubts that Atlas hurts more from dread losses than the Little Lord Fauntleroys of PL and Death), and are guarding them now, but no doubt the hostile pilots are pretty pleased with their large number of capital kills.  I would be, since like most Goons I am obsessed with K/D ratios.

It was a pretty fun fight for me, since I was in a stabber of all things.  The character made it into a vaga hull for the first time, today, but I thought I might get some practice in in an insurable hull before starting with the 145 mill ones on the NOL market.  It's veeeery different from sniping of course, but apparently you get on a pile of BS and dread kills and all that happens in return is that some guy in a AAA dread leaves his Ogres IIs trailing behind you for 3/4 an hour, doing 0 damage per hit vOv.  Anyway, I'll toy with vagas for a few weeks then admit my true nature and fly muninns: it can't be helped.

Also, Tri may or may not have admitted to being paid by AAA, and may now be helping them attack RA: sounds like a long shot but I don't make the news, I just repeat it without evidence or justification.

Edit: we held the massive field of dread wrecks.  I thought this was it: my chance at riches.  But I had reckoned without the Space-Semites of my coalition: even at 3k/sec I was waaay too slow.  I came thirty-three jumps and all i got was this lousy Hobgoblin II 

[MahrinSkel]

So a lot of running around, but not much actual fighting, Comstar?

--Dave

[Comstar]

The Romulen's got their revenge during Endie's battle. Because the PL plan to hot drop ATLAS was so seekret normal fleet command in delve was unaware of it's importance. So we lazily finished another POS kill while DBRB was 1/2 way to Deteroid already. Everyone on the POS shoot was 30 jumps behind when the big cap fight started.

I started going down the pipe through Period Basis and meet up with a 50 man KIA fleet that's screaming in local "DON'T GO INTO THE NEXT SYSTEM". Eventually about 50 KIA and 10 goons jump in to 30 or so Romanian's. Then 50 or so other hostiles from Stain (or as I like to think of them, Cardassians) came in behind us and wiped out all the goons and KIA in short order (including me).

The Romulen's then got to kill 1/2 out fleet that came back from the cap fight (and I'm sure got a lot of that loot Endie missed out on) and finally got doomsdayed for their troubles.

[Murgos]

This now meant that SirMolle and co were now in the middle of nowhere and dozens of jumps from the KIA tower. By the time they got back to it, KIA had repped, refuelled and saved the tower. We went back north and killed a Skunkwork's tower without being troubled.

Prime example of tactical  and strategic  .  Sounds like he would have been better with an Eve version of a double envelopment, siege the tower while sticking a large gang on the gate into the system.

Endie's battle sounds like one of those things where the only way to figure our the winners is by who is least affected by the losses in the long run.  Which is hard to tell lately because everyone just seems to shrug off massive cap losses anymore.

[Sir T]

This now meant that SirMolle and co were now in the middle of nowhere and dozens of jumps from the KIA tower. By the time they got back to it, KIA had repped, refuelled and saved the tower. We went back north and killed a Skunkwork's tower without being troubled.

Prime example of tactical  and strategic  .  Sounds like he would have been better with an Eve version of a double envelopment, siege the tower while sticking a large gang on the gate into the system.

The problem with Mollie and Kenny in general is that they are simply incapable of seeing that big picture. All they understand is humiliating the opposition with overwheleming firelpower to "prove" how powerful they are.  They are eternally looking for the Huge victory that will wipe out the enemy morale and win them the war in one shot. Theoiir constant harping about "We just have to defeat NC a couple of times and they will break apart" is proof enough of that.

He probably thought that smashing the fleet of 60 was far more important than killing the tower. And splitting up his blob to acomplish 2 obectives? Impossible. Splitting up his forces would have diluted that mass hammerblow he craved to feel powerful and would have been a risk.

[Phildo]

Their constant harping about "We just have to defeat NC a couple of times and they will break apart"

We often say the same thing about Kenzoku.

Also, my sources have informed me that CVA now have FOUR titans.  Care to comment, Mr. Pezzle?

[Quinton]

What in the world does CVA do with Titans?  Is there a RP reason to own them?

[eldaec]

They do argue with AAA forces over one system or another from time to time, so I guess they have to do cheesy titan jammer defence just like the rest of us?

The real question is why *anyone* would volunteer to fly one.

[Endie]

They do argue with AAA forces over one system or another from time to time, so I guess they have to do cheesy titan jammer defence just like the rest of us?

The real question is why *anyone* would volunteer to fly one.

I'd volunteer.  Then I'd finally get to quit Eve and write that book.

[Phildo]

Then I'd finally get to quit Eve and write that book.

About Eve.

[Comstar]

Video of the 1st ever Titan kill. Not in game video though. Who was the guy in the towel coming from the shower.

[setar]

The problem with Mollie and Kenny in general is that they are simply incapable of seeing that big picture. All they understand is humiliating the opposition with overwheleming firelpower to "prove" how powerful they are.  They are eternally looking for the Huge victory that will wipe out the enemy morale and win them the war in one shot. Theoiir constant harping about "We just have to defeat NC a couple of times and they will break apart" is proof enough of that.

That was at least part of the reason for the fallout between MC and BOB. While BOB was happy to throw away dozens of BS if it meant causing damage to the other side MC tended to be much more conservative with assets -- mostly because we kept shipping stuff all over the map, but also because our pockets were not quite as deep. That, and strategic goals always had priority over fights. If that meant babysitting POS or camping a gate for 12 hours rather then join the fight two jumps out, so be it. Whatever got the job done in the long run.

Running a campaign side by side was the worst idea ever, for both parties.

[MahrinSkel]

That was at least part of the reason for the fallout between MC and BOB. While BOB was happy to throw away dozens of BS if it meant causing damage to the other side MC tended to be much more conservative with assets -- mostly because we kept shipping stuff all over the map, but also because our pockets were not quite as deep. That, and strategic goals always had priority over fights. If that meant babysitting POS or camping a gate for 12 hours rather then join the fight two jumps out, so be it. Whatever got the job done in the long run.

Running a campaign side by side was the worst idea ever, for both parties.

I think that's why MC and FIX worked well together, FIX had finally gotten through our heads that winning fights doesn't win wars, if you can't afford to keep winning them.  Where BoB looked at things like our BC-heavy roaming defense gangs and laughed (if a BC gang couldn't handle it, a few BS weren't going to matter unless they slowed the gang down enough to get mousetrapped, and HAC's are too expensive for a fleet if you don't own the BPO's), MC saw that we could keep bringing the BC's (and other cheap but effective ships) to the skirmishes long after the enemy was reduced to hangar scrapings, then roll the T2 BS for the strategically significant battles and burn them up like noob frigates if that was what it took.  MC liked that we always looked for ways to bleed the enemy even when outnumbered, we liked that they didn't look down on us for going to war with the fleets we could afford to lose.  I think the only time I ever impressed an MC FC was when I explained that I viewed fleet dictors as expendable munitions, if they lived long enough to drop a useful bubble it was worth it many times over, so I kept a lot of spares pre-fitted (usually with bubble launchers, a dozen or so warp probes, and T1 guns just in case I got the chance to pop a frigate or a pod) and staged near probable battlefields, sometimes losing a half-dozen in a single battle (now standard practice, but practically heresy at the time).

I think BoB got spoiled by having too many pilots that could afford to lose a BS a day (either rich or burning corp money/alliance reserves).  Force them into "Stone Soup" fleets from restricted income and empty warehouses, and their high command literally doesn't know what to do when the best they can field isn't good enough to just beat the opposition down through main force and won't meet them when it is.  Once upon a time they fielded the original 4 corps as independent units and could do two or three things at once.  Then they got focused on forcing big engagements and using MC to be where they weren't.

--Dave

[Murgos]

And in a surprise move, Tri takes the field in Querious.

[Slayerik]

And in a surprise move, Tri takes the field in Querious.

Hmmm, maybe i should log on more than once every week to check skills!

[Endie]

Kenny and barbie have, yet again, been slaughtered.

Also, Skunk Works (who lost a third corp in three days today) forgot the essential jammer POS checklist.

Anchor, fuel and online tower - "Check"
Anchor and online modules and add ammo - "Check.  Oh, wait, what was that bit about ammo?  Nah, fuck that noise."

[Phildo]

Tri was rumored to be working for AAA/RKZ in the north already, this comes as little shock to me.

[Pezzle]

A two part post!

Part One!
First, there was a nice dust up in 9uy today between Providence forces and a serious mash up of hostiles.  Report time goes for 40 minutes so it might have been 2 different hostile engagements or a nice 3 way smashy.  The friendly forces included CVA, some holders and the usual mash of Providence whatever ships (love my home team) probably in separate gangs.  Hostiles include Goons, PA, SoT, Razor, MM, TCF, KIA, ZA, AAA, UK.  It looks like we held the field, not sure as I was at work.

Also, we scrapped with Krautbreak and friends earlier in low sec.  It cost them 3 carriers and popcorn vs one friendly cap and popcorn.  Numbers favored the enemy.


Part Two!

Aside from the obvious :what Titans?:

While I will not comment on the number of Titans we may or may not have the reason for owning them should be obvious.  Remember, when the Titan BPO's came out the landscape was much different.  I know I live in LOLProvidence but we do take our defense seriously.  BoB was continuing to make threats against us.  There was AAA, Seleene (then MC) had wanted a scrap with us.  LV was Aligned against us as well.  In fact, all of the South and East were hostile outside IAC.  That may not have changed much but the landscape has.  Sure the huge conflicts are not so close now and we have more outposts than any invading force would possibly care to  run.  It was not always so.  We also have holders with some Catch space and continue making more enemies than friends.  Any secured 0.0 is a good place for cap ship production.

 

[MahrinSkel]

While I will not comment on the number of Titans we may or may not have the reason for owning them should be obvious.  Remember, when the Titan BPO's came out the landscape was much different.  I know I live in LOLProvidence but we do take our defense seriously.  BoB was continuing to make threats against us.  There was AAA, Seleene (then MC) had wanted a scrap with us.  LV was Aligned against us as well.  In fact, all of the South and East were hostile outside IAC. 

I think you're giving yourself too much credit.  Everyone except IAC didn't care about you, if you got in the way of their fleet movements they crushed you, and otherwise they ignored you.  Not trying to offend you, it's just the reality.  Nobody wanted your space, it was generally faster to travel around it than transit through it, you had no meaningful capacity to project power and weren't in between anyone and forces that wanted to fight them.  For quite a while, everything but the last described FIX equally well.  The only invaders you ever really face are dregs and remnants from elsewhere that think Providence looks better than NPC space or Empire.

--Dave

[Pezzle]

Not offended.  Nor do I think I am giving us any credit.  I know Providence is terrible.  I also know a number of groups were eyeing us (various members said so themselves during or after the fact).  Real or a trick you prepare yourselves.   Perhaps the real point here is that any 0.0 group needs to be prepared for what comes.  It is easy to laugh about arms buildups in regions no one wants.  More the fool are the groups who do not use resources at their disposal.

[setar]

Agree with Pezzle. TRI would have been happy to push you out a while ago, if only for amusement value. The way CVA handled that conflict was actually quite impressive -- patient, focusing on the important defenses. Adding a few titans as deterrent can only help.

[MahrinSkel]

Not offended.  Nor do I think I am giving us any credit.  I know Providence is terrible.  I also know a number of groups were eyeing us (various members said so themselves during or after the fact).  Real or a trick you prepare yourselves.   Perhaps the real point here is that any 0.0 group needs to be prepared for what comes.  It is easy to laugh about arms buildups in regions no one wants.  More the fool are the groups who do not use resources at their disposal.

Being able to intensively develop the region without major interference or cross-regional territorial wars has certainly let you pursue the "intensive exploitation" theory of 0.0 development, and I was surprised how many stations the region has now.  Makes Delve look like an empty field (if you include the Blood Raider stations it's a tie).  Maybe having space nobody else wants is a blessing.

--Dave

[Predator Irl]

Also, Skunk Works (who lost a third corp in three days today) forgot the essential jammer POS checklist.

I noticed last week that a few of Skunk Works guys have joined Atlas!

[IainC]

Also, Skunk Works (who lost a third corp in three days today) forgot the essential jammer POS checklist.

I noticed last week that a few of Skunk Works guys have joined Atlas!

Atlas are spamming towers a fair bit recently, in fact I think they're the only hostile alliance that are actively dropping towers in our systems. S-W have been bleeding towers and losing their grip steadily over the same time period so I can imagine that joining the team that's not losing so hard would seem attractive.

[Endie]

Those wanting the super-exciting war updates probably try to catch the Mittanni update on CAOD before Kenny and their alts deliberately spam it enough that CCP Navigator has an excuse to lock it.  So this is the boring version.

We've been lazily chewing on Kenny and Barbie sov systems, and towers they spammed as part of the last "Big Push".  It's a sustainable rate of progress: 10 to 20 towers a day, often focussing on a certain alliance.  SkunkWorks, as mentioned before, were one target, and they have lost ten of their eleven systems in the last few days, with some towers killed, some stolen, and a very few taken down as four of their larger corps have bailed out and left them already.

I know from chatting to the Swedish guys in Blade in local (as part of my ongoing and largely victorious private sov war) that they feel pretty let down that Kenny only defends 49- and their R64s, while abandoning pet towers in a show of ~patience~ (although they did try and get a defence gang together last night, but stood it down when they failed to break fifty pilots).  And Blade are probably the blindest devotees of Kenny I have ever spoken to.

Kenny try to do stuff on occasion.  A couple of days ago, after they defended the 5V R64 tower (lots of excellent preparation from them, including 7 or 8 titans, multiple dictors and hictors pre-positioned and cloaked around the moon, and a decent enough fleet) sufficiently well to persuade us to do other stuff, they went and tried to take down a cyno jammer defending a high-end moon of ours, instead.  Fair play to them for trying but Kenny and Barbie can't take down defended cyno-jammers these days, and they got murdered, just as we would have done a year ago (we have learned how to do it now, fairly reliably).  Their situation in that fight was made slightly worse by a small group of Goon stealth bombers who deployed synchronised bombs to strip their shields just before the fleet jumped in on them.  Its pretty certain that Goonfleet will be unable to field any T2 snipers, soon, as everyone is straight-lining for stealth bombers.

After that we killed more of them at the Frontal Impact POS they hid at then went to kill some pesky Romanians/Coven.  After that was dealt with it was off to Providence in a T1 suicide cruiser gang, about which Pezzle spoke.

Then, yesterday, recovery from illness meant I got to sit online for as much of the day as CCP's increasingly erratic servers would allow, dashing from system to system and sometimes making it there before the dreadswarm would kill whatever tower we were attacking at the time and we would have to move off to the next one.  I've learned to dual-box these when possible: one character for shooting the tower and the other in a sensor-boosted vexor for the all-important job of padding my K/D ratio with shuttles and pods.  We had an op running constantly from 7am until 6pm killing and reinforcing stuff, then a lack of targets meant it was off for another comedy roam.

Rumour is that Molle is calling another Big Push: a two-week solid cycle of ops starting soon (next Thursday, I'd imagine).  Since this one has to go somewhere I imagine he's already begged help from Russians, Atlas et al: it needs to be more than a dead cat bounce this time.  Looks like I should start building up some sleep in advance 

[Endie]

Goonswarm corp Merchi deployed a new outpost today in 1-2J.

Well, actually they deployed it yesterday.  They just forgot the fuel part of the equation.  So it sat there in space for a full day, waiting for some passing gank squad to break their killboards when they tried to post it.  And today, proving that God takes care of old folks and Merchi, we have an ill-deserved new outpost.

And apparently Evil Thug, perhaps acting on information from ace schoolboy intelligence chief Jake Noble, spent much of the day gathering their resources to repel CVA's massive invasion of Catch.  Wait, what...?!?