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Author Topic: Vanguard is live.  (Read 130164 times)
Falconeer
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on: January 26, 2007, 09:28:58 AM

9.27 am PST and I can apparently log in and go for the final patch. Servers should be up for play in 15 minutes (EDIT: Live for people who preordered. Standard humans will be able to enter on Tuesday the 30th).

Here's the welcome message and the pre-launch patch notes. Scary as ever.


Quote
Vanguard Build 1716 Patch Notes 1/26/2007


Welcome to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes!
Congratulations! Your pre-order of Vanguard allows you to be one of the first to witness the exciting, dangerous, and ever-changing world of Telon. Telon is a living world, and like any world its early days is going to be fraught with turbulence. Expect us to have to "patch" any cracks as they appear for the first days.

We know you are excited to explore the world we created for you, and we are equally excited to have you here. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the landscape... enjoy the freedom... of Vanguard.


GAMEPLAY NOTES
- Many cases of "lost corpses" are now free for summoning at the altar. ("Free" meaning the experience that can be recovered by looting the corpse/tombstone will remain on it, and there will be no durability hit).
- Charmed NPC that are not a fixed duration have a significantly greater chance to break early. NPCs higher than the casters level still have an increased break chance.
- All ranged items should now be purchasable in stacks
- The non-damage resistance rate on high challenge level NPCs has been reduced.
- There will now be an error displayed at character create if you have not selected a server.
- You should now be able to get back to the race/class phase of character create from server select.

- Many activated racial abilities have had their effects tweaked and recast timers changed:
- Goblin - Cast time lowered to 15 minutes
- Orc - Damage healed is now 50% of damage done, duration lowered to 15 minutes
- Kojan Humans - Cast time lowered to 30 minutes - diminishing effects are now in place, preventing the same target from receiving more than 1 spirit of jin within a 10 minute period
- Half Elves - Ability has been fixed. The rune has become 15% spell damage, and duration raised to 60 seconds Recast time reduced to 30 minutes.
- Raki - Plane shifting is now activated once per 30 minutes, lasts 1 minute. The health drain has been removed, and the mitigation to spell damage has been increased to 50%.
- Wood Elves - The run speed buff has been increased. Recast time is 30 minutes. More changes likely to come with this.
- Qaliathari Human - This effect now works. 100% evasion for 10 seconds. Recast time reduced to 30 minutes.
- Varanthari - Melee mitigation has raised to 35%. The recast has changed to 30 minutes.
- Mordebi - Ancient curse now simply stuns the target for 8 seconds, and reduces the agro range to 0. The target will not assist/agro while stunned, and the effect does not generate any agro. Recast is now 30 minutes.
- Dark Elves - Blood elves now use the arcane caster version of the pet. The pet will now despawn whether it's in combat or not. Recast has changed to 30 minutes. The psionicists and necro pets will soon become minions. This change is not in effect yet.
- Gnomes - Level restrictions have been adjusted for the crystals. The descriptions for the crystals have been fixed.
- Kurashasa - The symbiotic infection is now a proc, which can be applied on spell cast, on hit, or by being hit. The regen has been removed and replaced with a 25 % all damage rune. The recast of the ability has changed to 30 minutes.
- Thestran Human - Recast time is now 0. More changes likely to come to this.
- Dwarves - Recast time has become 30 minutes. The damage mitigation is now 25%.
- Halflings - Halflings now have two abilities, based on class:
- Halfling warriors: Pride of the Vael: This ability will add a vast amount of hate to a single target, and apply a buff on the Halfling for 30 seconds. All attacks during this time period will count for double agro. - recast time is 15 minutes.
- All other classes: Shroud of the Vael: this ability will remove 99% of agro from a single target but keep the Halfling in combat. Additionally, for 30 seconds afterwards, any spell cast or attack made will have its agro reduced to 1% of normal as well.
- Lesser Giants - The effect has been fixed to only grant 50% additional hitpoints. However a regen component has been added as well, and the duration has been increased to 60 seconds. Recast time is now 30 minutes.
- Barbarians - The effect has changed to cut the cost of all endurance/energy spells by half, and the damage increase stays the same. Recast time is now 30 minutes.
- High Elves - Recast time is now 15 minutes.
- Vulmane - Recast time is now 15 minutes.
- A first iteration on PC passive abilities are in for crafting, harvesting, and adventuring attributes. It is likely there will be an additional adventuring ability for each race added shortly.

Adventuring Abilities:
- Qalian/Thestran Barbarians, Lesser Giants and Orcs: Large Race: 2% bonus to mitigation
- Raki, Vulmane, and Kurashasa: Animal Reflexes: 10% bonus to run speed.
- Dwarves, Halflings, Goblins, Gnome: Small Race: 2% bonus to evasion
- High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves: Elven Wisdom: 2% reduction in mana cost
- Qalian/Thestran/Kojanese Humans, and half elves: Human Ingenuity + 10 bonus to all weapon skills, and dodge.

CRAFTING
Thestran - +10 Ingenuity
Dwarves - +10 Finesse
Halflings - +10 Reasoning
High Elf - +10 Reasoning
Vulmane - +10 Problem Solving
Varanjar - +10 Problem Solving
Lesser Giants - +10 Ingenuity
Kojani - +10 Ingenuity
Wood Elves - +10 Finesse
Orcs - +10 Problem Solving
Goblins - +10 Reasoning
Half Elf - +10 Finesse
Rakki - +10 Reasoning
Qaliarathia - +10 Ingenuity
Mordebi - +10 Finesse
Gnomes - +10 Problem Solving
Dark Elves - +10 Finesse
Kurasasha - +10 Reasoning
Valathari - +10 Problem Solving

HARVESTING
Thestran - +5 Lumberjacking
Dwarves - +5 Mining
Halflings - +5 Reaping
High Elf - +5 Reaping
Vulmane - +5 Skinning
Varanjar - +5 Quarrying
Lesser Giants - +5 Lumberjacking
Kojani - +5 Lumberjacking
Wood Elves - +5 Lumberjacking
Orcs - +5 Quarrying
Goblins - +5 Mining
Half Elf - +5 Skinning
Rakki - +5 Reaping
Qaliarathia - +5 Lumberjacking
Mordebi - +5 Reaping
Gnomes - +5 Mining
Dark Elves - +5 Skinning
Kurasasha - +5 Skinning
Valathari - +5 Quarrying

Known Issues:
- Orcs do not get a "Human Ingenuity" bonus as their description states. Instead, they get the "Large Race" bonus of 2% mitigation.
- Half Elves do not get a "Large Race" bonus as their description states. Instead, they get the "Human Ingenuity" bonus of +10 to all weapon skills and dodge.

ADVENTURING NOTES
- All Classes - Sprint now states that it is instant cast
- Bard - Hinder should now be working properly. Hinder should also display the hate added properly.
- Cleric - Removed Hallow from trainers until it functions properly
- Cleric - Power of Renewal II should now have a healing amount in line with the other Power of Renewals
- Cleric - Turn Undead no longer has an energy cost
- Cleric - Turn Undead should now be resisted less often.
- Disciple - Your attacks should now longer say that you "cast" them on yourself
- Disciple - Celestial Breeze no longer display text twice.
- Dread Knight - The mitigation boost from Armor of Darkness should be applied correctly now.
- Dread Knight - Added a 6 second refresh to Malice
- Druid - Taproot has been added at level 18
- Druid - Added Forage to level 10
- Paladin - Retort II, III, and IV should only last 60 seconds or 3 hits, whichever comes first.
- Paladin - Aura of Shielding should now add mitigation
- Paladin - Paladin Auras should now only affect the group the paladin is in.
- Paladin - Aura of Divine Power should now display correctly.
- Paladin - Hammer of Valus should now display the floating combat text
- Paladin - Blade of Vol Anari should now display text in your combat window
- Paladin - Divine Center and Stalwart Soul can no longer be cancelled by right clicking.
- Paladin - Upbraid now costs energy instead of endurance.
- Psionicist - Thought Thief now works correctly. It has been changed a little. Now only mental spells will sap mana. Other spells will not do damage, but will not return any either. The way they work has been streamlined and you no longer need to have the mana to cast the spell to cast it under Thought Thief.
- Monk - Feet of the Fire Dragon ability line now has floating numbers.
- Monk - Removed energy cost from Ignore Pain. This ability should now be usable again.
- Monk - Feet of the Fire Dragon should now correctly display the damage dealt.
- Necromancer - The Deathwalk effect display description has now been updated to display the correct number instead of 0.
- Ranger - Your attacks should now longer say that you "cast" them on yourself
- Ranger - Can now cast ferocity while stealthed
- Ranger - Slightly increased duration and damage of Ferocity
- Ranger - Increased the forage table with food and herb items
- Rogue - Blackjack can now only be used while out of combat.
- Rogue - Keen Eye now raises your chance to score a critical hit by 2%!
- Rogue - Ravage now requires you to be stealthed.
- Rogue - Backstab now requires a piercing weapon.
- Rogue - Stalking can no longer be cancelled by right clicking.
- Shaman - Display Description on Wings of Hayatet III now represents what the buff gives you 15% fire spell crit), instead of the misleading 8% fire spell crit
- Shaman - Rage of Tuurgin now upgrades on even levels instead of odd ones
- Shaman - Wings of Hayatet I now gives a resistance bug like stated
- Shaman - Adroitness of Rakurr is now group targeted
- Shaman - Tuurgin's Vigor now lowers Endurance costs by percentage rather than flat numbers
- Warrior - Strike Now, Form a Line, and Charge should now work without a defensive target. These are now cast on the warrior's group.
- Warrior - Smash should now do the appropriate amount of damage.
- Warrior - Myrmidon's Gift now lasts 3 seconds instead of 1 hit. It is clear in the description that it only affects special attacks.

CRAFTING NOTES
- More information has been added to crafting advisors and taskmasters.
- Station placement in major cities has been adjusted.
- More advanced work orders have been added.

DIPLOMACY NOTES
- New Targonor and Ahgram now have all city services: trainers, vendors, guards, exchange brokers, mailboxes, banks... and many intriguing characters whose stories you will learn through Diplomacy in the coming months.
- Tanvu now has Civic Diplomacy: Soldiers and Crafters (which means you can complete the Civic Diplomacy Tutorial).
- 'Settle the Debts' should no longer send you to parley with an angry Kurru.
- ‘A Ship to Sail by' can now be completed in response to a rare issue.
- Many more parley dialogues to enjoy in Civic Diplomacy.
- All NPC decks should now play against you in parley.
- Civic Diplomacy factions are being given correctly in all Civic Diplomacy areas. Yes, it is correct that Halgarad gives Leth Nurae Presence. It's an elf/barbarian thing.

WORLD POPULATION NOTES
- Kalendra the Dark Witch once again has a body. Rejoice!
- There are now trainers for all adventuring classes at the Wardship of the Sleeping Moon in the Marsh of Peril.
- There is now a full suite of adventuring trainers at Zarabadi Landing, northeast of Khal.
- Bordinar's Cleft - Horsebane Ticks within the stables of Bordinar's Cleft are no longer assisting one another via hard-locked encounter.
- Cliffs of Ghelgad - Parisa Nirumand in the Cliffs of Ghelgad should no longer chase and attack any KoS races who find themselves ported to the nearby altar upon death.
- Cliffs of Ghelgad - Alimir Surhami in the Cliffs of Ghelgad should no longer chase and attack any KoS races who find themselves ported to the nearby altar upon death.
- Khal - Redirected the overland population that would sometimes roam to the corpse altar location in Khal.
- Khal - Guard directions in Khal are now up to date and complete.
- Mekalia - The mailbox has been moved to a much more accessible location.
- Mekalia - A Qalian Marketplace Broker has setup shop within the city walls.
- Pankor Zhi - Pankor Zhi and the Queen's Roost above is now a functional 48+ group/multi group adventuring area. More quests and flavor text are soon to follow.
- Renton Keep - Mount of the Zihurr is, once again, inhabited by the Zihurr Arthropods rather than vicious mousemen!
- Renton Keep - The quest "Ants Underfoot" should no longer be spawning seemingly endless waves of the Zihurr.
- Rindol Field - Guard directions in Rindol Field are now up to date and complete.
- Shaman's Glade - Players should now be sent to the correct altar location when meeting their untimely demise
- Shaman's Glade - Shaman's Glade is now known as the Wardship of the Sleeping Moon.
- Temple of Dailuk - The dragon turtles are less cuddly with each other.
- Temple of Dailuk - Quest: Road to Dark Horse Downs is no longer repeatable.
- Temple of Dailuk - Quest: Evendusk Fortress: You no longer have to return to the questgiver to complete
- Tursh - Caretaker Hugh in Tursh should no longer chase and attack any KoS races who find themselves ported to the nearby altar upon death.
- Tursh - Guard directions in Tursh are now up to date and complete.

GUI NOTES
- Level will now be shown on your offensive target window instead of just in the tooltip.

CODING NOTES
- The crash reporting procedure will no longer use your email client. Those of you who were unable to send crash reports before due to email problems should no longer experience submission troubles, so please consider submitting your reports. Thanks!

ART NOTES
- Bug fix for the crazy clothes that were appearing briefly while logging in.


~The Vanguard Team









« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 09:33:57 AM by Falconeer »

Azazel
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Reply #1 on: January 26, 2007, 09:35:06 AM

Good luck. I hope you survive.


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
geldonyetich
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Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 09:35:39 AM

Patching up.  :)

I'll drop a "just how much an initial trainwreck the preorder release was" update in 2 1/2 hrs.

Afropuff
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Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 09:36:05 AM

I'm glad this happened. We needed another Vanguard thread.
WayAbvPar
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Reply #4 on: January 26, 2007, 10:14:20 AM



Woohoo!

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
rk47
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Reply #5 on: January 26, 2007, 10:17:50 AM

That's harsh. :) But have fun. That's all it's there to it. ;) I'm having my own fun in WoW right now.  :-D

Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #6 on: January 26, 2007, 10:22:43 AM

needs more races

lawl
slog
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Reply #7 on: January 26, 2007, 10:26:35 AM

how many Gigs is the first patch?

Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
Falconeer
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Reply #8 on: January 26, 2007, 10:39:05 AM

Zero giga in the first patch. It's still 16.7 gigs total.

rk47
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Reply #9 on: January 26, 2007, 10:47:27 AM


Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
Yoru
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Reply #10 on: January 26, 2007, 10:53:26 AM

Oh, Welcome to the NHK manga scanlations, what aren't you useful for? :)
Miasma
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Stopgap Measure


Reply #11 on: January 26, 2007, 10:55:10 AM

I've heard the PvP servers are either locked or down, maybe they aren't going to turn them on today?  I'd go to the official boards to see an official response but whoops, they don't have official forums.  I'd go to the "unofficial official" forums but whoops, they have gone offline to upgrade their hardward because they were getting crushed even before the game launched.

Now I get to bounce around a bunch of shitty fansites trying to find one that has the answers I want, fucking idiots1 and their asinine decision not to have forums.

1I claim first to call them "fucking idiots" since it went live.

Edit: I had to go to the vault, now I need a shower.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 11:04:53 AM by Miasma »
Falconeer
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Reply #12 on: January 26, 2007, 11:03:53 AM

The lack of official forums, I always forgot to comment, is plan and simple RIDICOLOUS. *sigh*

Falconeer
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Reply #13 on: January 26, 2007, 11:06:08 AM

VARKING, team PvP, is now Up.

Venkman
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Reply #14 on: January 26, 2007, 11:15:03 AM

The lack of official forums, I always forgot to comment, is plan and simple RIDICOLOUS. *sigh*
You know why that is the case though ;) If they did it right now there'd be nothing but flame fests, guaranteed to turn away passersby.

I actually suspect they'll open up official forums sometime late summer though. They need to wait until the gotta-be-firsts filter out of the game they realize they don't like and be replaced by the starry-eyed newbs coming for an alternative to whatever. When they reach a good ratio, THEN they launch the official forums.

The patch notes would have included an XP nerf if there was one. Hence, there wasn't one. Score 1 point for correcting the mistakes of the past!
Engels
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Reply #15 on: January 26, 2007, 11:45:38 AM

Quote
Dark Elves - Blood elves now use the arcane caster version of the pet. The pet will now despawn whether it's in combat or not. Recast has changed to 30 minutes. The psionicists and necro pets will soon become minions. This change is not in effect yet.

woops.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

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raydeen
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Reply #16 on: January 26, 2007, 11:52:35 AM

Quote
Dark Elves - Blood elves now use the arcane caster version of the pet. The pet will now despawn whether it's in combat or not. Recast has changed to 30 minutes. The psionicists and necro pets will soon become minions. This change is not in effect yet.

woops.

It's just wishful thinking on their part.

I was drinking when I wrote this, so sue me if it goes astray.
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #17 on: January 26, 2007, 12:01:49 PM

Quote
Dark Elves - Blood elves now use the arcane caster version of the pet. The pet will now despawn whether it's in combat or not. Recast has changed to 30 minutes. The psionicists and necro pets will soon become minions. This change is not in effect yet.

woops.


Rang RANG!
geldonyetich
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Reply #18 on: January 26, 2007, 12:32:56 PM

In their defense, I'll say Vanguard's Dark Elves are far bloodier than any race in WoW.

So...
Quote from: me
I'll drop a "just how much an initial trainwreck the preorder release was" update in 2 1/2 hrs.
Aside from the to-be-expected over hunting of newbie grounds, things have gone quite swimmingly on Targonor from the Kojan starting point.  My client crashed once, then I restored default settings and it didn't crash the remaining 2 hours I played it.  A far as I can tell, the servers have zones have been up and stable since the server was put up at approximately the scheduled time.  I've heard, "Things have really improved since beta" about a dozen times over the broadcast channels.

We'll see how chipper I am when the evening crew hits, but for the time being, train wreck averted.  Maybe the rails are a bit rusty and broken here and there, maybe some would consider it a Frankenstein monster of trains, but it's nonetheless forging ahead on schedule.  FFVIII depiction:


Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #19 on: January 26, 2007, 12:59:07 PM

Not a bad start. I'll take it over WoW.

Then again, I'd take a beaver shit taco over WoW so I may be biased.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Slayerik
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Reply #20 on: January 26, 2007, 01:04:04 PM

Not a bad start. I'll take it over WoW.

Then again, I'd take a beaver shit taco over WoW so I may be biased.

Yeah, because WoW was so poorly done  rolleyes

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Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #21 on: January 26, 2007, 01:08:18 PM

Fanboy much?

Has nothing to do with how poorly or well done it is. Has everything to do with my disdain for the lack of engaging quests, IMO.

You like it, you play it. I'll play this 'til I decide it sucks and then I'll play something else or I won't.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Valmorian
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Reply #22 on: January 26, 2007, 01:17:23 PM

Fanboy much?

Has nothing to do with how poorly or well done it is. Has everything to do with my disdain for the lack of engaging quests, IMO.

You like it, you play it. I'll play this 'til I decide it sucks and then I'll play something else or I won't.

Psst.  What makes a quest "engaging" is purely subjective.  Are some quests in WoW boring and meaningless?  Sure.  But there's a lot of them in there with interesting storylines and neat bits. 

I have to ask, though, what exactly is so different about the quests in Vanguard?  Are there no "collect x" quests at all?  No "collect this bosses head" quests?


stray
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Reply #23 on: January 26, 2007, 01:26:05 PM

Allow me to say that both games suck equally in the "engaging story/quest" department.  cool

MMO developers are pretty good in the lore department. Pretty poor as far as doing anything interesting with that lore.

Not sure why that is. Not money. Plenty of underfunded games can still tell a good story. Not even gameplay. Plenty of engaging rpg's, action titles, and adventure games with shitty game mechanics. Not even multiplayer and persistency -- Instancing makes many things possible, and yet, these games still suck.
Soukyan
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Reply #24 on: January 26, 2007, 01:28:20 PM

"Engaging" is quite subjective.

I do agree that most MMOGs could be more engaging, however. How to accomplish that, I cannot answer... at least not without some monetary compensation. ;)

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Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #25 on: January 26, 2007, 01:31:25 PM

Psst... And here I was thinking my experience was the end-all-be-all of MMOness...  rolleyes

Anyway, yeah, there are fedex quests in any and every MMO out there. Vanguard is no different. That said, the Kojani start series alone is more intriguing than most of the crap I did in my six month stint with the Horde.

I appreciate WoW for what it is, a highly polished, yet ultimately soulless experience. YMMV. Six months down the line, I may feel the same about Vanguard. Hell, six days down the line I may feel that way. I may just dig it now because there's a part of me that secretly digs watching trainwrecks and I just like rooting for the underdog and shit that people are just waiting to fail. Who knows? What I do know is that there are eight million threads out there singing the praises of WoW for many deserved reasons and just as many undeserved ones. Vanguard's getting shit on just because of who and where it came from. Does it deserve some of the scorn? Of course it does, does it deserve all of it? And more importantly to me, does it deserve my scorn? That's what I intend to find out.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Nebu
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Reply #26 on: January 26, 2007, 01:39:59 PM

I'm not a fan of WoW, but it's easy to see the big things they've managed to accomplish:

1) Atmosphere.  I dislike the cartoonish graphics, but like them or not, they do generate a very tangible atmosphere.

2) Players feel powerful IMMEDIATELY.  None of that "I have to get to level X and then I'll start to kick ass" stuff.  

This is as far as CoH/CoV got... they do these first two well also.

3) Itemization to satisfy the loot whore in all of us.

4) Most of the content and progression is soloable while being even faster/more rewarding in a group.   Encourage grouping, don't DEMAND it (with the exception of small portions of the game). There's progression, but not a terribly obvious grind... especially to those new to the genre.

5) Linear gameplay.  Always a direction that always pushes you forward.  I think my biggest departure from the game may be here as I like things more open ended.  It certainly does seem to aid in the game's appeal.  

The quests are largely uninteresting and nothing we haven't seen before.  The game mechanics similarly so.  

I think these points are going to be expected in anything but niche games.  It will be interesting to see what Vanguard has adopted and how those departures will affect their retention.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Valmorian
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Reply #27 on: January 26, 2007, 01:42:05 PM

That said, the Kojani start series alone is more intriguing than most of the crap I did in my six month stint with the Horde.

What does that quest series consist of?
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #28 on: January 26, 2007, 01:47:32 PM

Not to spoil it much, but you it's about redemption.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Ixxit
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Reply #29 on: January 26, 2007, 01:53:57 PM

WoW's quests are good in that they lead you through the game world to the places that are ideal for your level and expose content at just the right time.   Quite the testament to the skill of Blizzard's designers and is one of the reasons that the game is enjoyed by millions.

That said, I personally found after a while that following the quest chains became a unpalatable grind.  It's hard to explain , but I felt I was playing the mmorpg version of your typical rail shooter,  where the game funnels you from point a to b not with physical barriers ala Dungeon Siege  but with quest dialogue.

While some might consider that a strength,  I am explorer by heart, and never felt particularily immersed in that world.


EQ2 had some really great quest lines that you just happened on as you explored your surroundings and rewarded your curiosity.  These were not necesserily initiated by clicking on an NPC with an icon floating above their, but often by some inanimate yet prominent object in the world, like a boat moored by a small lake.

While I haven't had enough experience with Vanguard to comment on the strengths of its quests  one thing I noticed is that expecially in the starting are there are  lots of points of interest you can see far  in the distance that practically beg you to explore them.


I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.
Nebu
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Reply #30 on: January 26, 2007, 01:56:18 PM

EQ2 had some really great quest lines that you just happened on as you explored your surroundings and rewarded your curiosity.  These were not necesserily initiated by clicking on an NPC with an icon floating above their, but often by some inanimate yet prominent object in the world, like a boat moored by a small lake.

Yes.  That coupled to the ?, !, and page quests really made exploring and gathering a nice mini-game.  I liked many things that EQ2 introduced.  I just couldn't handle many many others. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Surlyboi
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Posts: 10963

eat a bag of dicks


Reply #31 on: January 26, 2007, 02:11:07 PM

WoW's quests are good in that they lead you through the game world to the places that are ideal for your level and expose content at just the right time.   Quite the testament to the skill of Blizzard's designers and is one of the reasons that the game is enjoyed by millions.

That said, I personally found after a while that following the quest chains became a unpalatable grind.  It's hard to explain , but I felt I was playing the mmorpg version of your typical rail shooter,  where the game funnels you from point a to b not with physical barriers ala Dungeon Siege  but with quest dialogue.

While some might consider that a strength,  I am explorer by heart, and never felt particularily immersed in that world.

That's it exactly. I hated that feeling. That coupled with my general disdain for instant gratification in RPGs just sunk WoW for me. I wanted to like it, I really did, considering my ex was playing it at the time and I kinda wanted to share the experience with her, but it just sucked.

Quote
EQ2 had some really great quest lines that you just happened on as you explored your surroundings and rewarded your curiosity.  These were not necesserily initiated by clicking on an NPC with an icon floating above their, but often by some inanimate yet prominent object in the world, like a boat moored by a small lake.

That's what I liked and continue to like about EQ2. Quests can start almost anywhere.

Quote
While I haven't had enough experience with Vanguard to comment on the strengths of its quests  one thing I noticed is that expecially in the starting are there are  lots of points of interest you can see far  in the distance that practically beg you to explore them.

That's what may keep me long after the quests have bored me to tears. The fact that if I travel long enough, I can actually climb that mountain I see in the distance.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Valmorian
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Posts: 1163


Reply #32 on: January 26, 2007, 02:19:08 PM

EQ2 had some really great quest lines that you just happened on as you explored your surroundings and rewarded your curiosity.  These were not necesserily initiated by clicking on an NPC with an icon floating above their, but often by some inanimate yet prominent object in the world, like a boat moored by a small lake.

Those quests exist in WoW as well, it's just that people are so used to the ! and ? that many don't bother to look for them.  One that I can think of starts with a scrap of paper at the bottom of the water under the Thandol Span.  The note leads you on a quest line that culminates in building a monument to honor those who died in the war that damaged the bridge in the first place. 

It's an obscure quest, most have never seen it, but it's there.  (Hell, I can think of a second one on the SAME bridge, in a hidden little nook that you have to jump to get to). 

Morat20
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Posts: 18529


Reply #33 on: January 26, 2007, 02:26:45 PM

EQ2 had some really great quest lines that you just happened on as you explored your surroundings and rewarded your curiosity.  These were not necesserily initiated by clicking on an NPC with an icon floating above their, but often by some inanimate yet prominent object in the world, like a boat moored by a small lake.

Those quests exist in WoW as well, it's just that people are so used to the ! and ? that many don't bother to look for them.  One that I can think of starts with a scrap of paper at the bottom of the water under the Thandol Span.  The note leads you on a quest line that culminates in building a monument to honor those who died in the war that damaged the bridge in the first place. 

It's an obscure quest, most have never seen it, but it's there.  (Hell, I can think of a second one on the SAME bridge, in a hidden little nook that you have to jump to get to). 

Where the hell is Thandol Span?
squirrel
Contributor
Posts: 1767


Reply #34 on: January 26, 2007, 02:36:37 PM

EQ2 had some really great quest lines that you just happened on as you explored your surroundings and rewarded your curiosity.  These were not necesserily initiated by clicking on an NPC with an icon floating above their, but often by some inanimate yet prominent object in the world, like a boat moored by a small lake.

Those quests exist in WoW as well, it's just that people are so used to the ! and ? that many don't bother to look for them.  One that I can think of starts with a scrap of paper at the bottom of the water under the Thandol Span.  The note leads you on a quest line that culminates in building a monument to honor those who died in the war that damaged the bridge in the first place. 

It's an obscure quest, most have never seen it, but it's there.  (Hell, I can think of a second one on the SAME bridge, in a hidden little nook that you have to jump to get to). 

Where the hell is Thandol Span?

The bridgge that joins the wetlands and arathi highlands.

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
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