Raph is no longer taunting us (Metaplace)

[Engels]

Wouldn't it be ironic if after all this time, Raph decides that he needs public forums, knows that they will be hell on wheels to moderate, and therefore offers all f13 mods the job, at salaries you can't ignore.

Rod Serling comes out from behind a pile of pizza boxes and beer cans, "The F13 staff, once gadflies of the MMO industry, now forced to moderate an unending SWG thread in the Twilight Zone."

[Sky]

Raph ate my baby.

UO was a great game, imo the best mmo to date. Planetside being the second, though the strangled resources it got prevented it from even really getting built up right (and caves).

SWG had a ton of potential but was just too big of a project with too many chiefs. Throw in Lucasarts and no wonder it was mishmashed beyond repair.

I await whatever Raph does next, and I wish I had the free time and lifestyle to actually enjoy it. The biggest problem with Raph's designs is that people are generally a bunch of fucking douchebags. Mmo players can't have nice things.

[stray]

The biggest problem with Raph's designs is that people are generally a bunch of fucking douchebags. Mmo players can't have nice things.

That's one of the things I think he actually enjoys. Part ant farm enthusiast/part Dennis the Menace.

[Nonentity]

It's true. In world-like MMOs (Read: UO), me and my friends are douchebags at the expense of others.

It works something like this:

VW MMO = Mass Douchebaggery easily obtainable through game systems
Game MMO = Mass Douchebaggery somewhat more difficultly obtained through social means and figuring out how to twist the system

[Yoru]

Wouldn't it be ironic if after all this time, Raph decides that he needs public forums, knows that they will be hell on wheels to moderate, and therefore offers all f13 mods the job, at salaries you can't ignore.

Rod Serling comes out from behind a pile of pizza boxes and beer cans, "The F13 staff, once gadflies of the MMO industry, now forced to moderate an unending SWG thread in the Twilight Zone."

I'd do it, particularly since I could telecommute and not move back south. Also, I money. ;)

Anyway, once Raph's ready to talk more about what Areae's actually doing, there will be investigative journalism. Or at least pleas for interviews.

[Yegolev]

Wouldn't it be ironic if after all this time, Raph decides that he needs public forums, knows that they will be hell on wheels to moderate, and therefore offers all f13 mods the job, at salaries you can't ignore.

Rod Serling comes out from behind a pile of pizza boxes and beer cans, "The F13 staff, once gadflies of the MMO industry, now forced to moderate an unending SWG thread in the Twilight Zone."

Phhht.  If it pays more than what I am doing now, sure.  Sign me up.  MMO gadfly for the win.

[geldonyetich]

Douchebaggery in VW can be greatly reduced by putting the carrots in different places.  There will still be those who do it for the love of the douchebaggery, but they tend to linger at lower levels from lack of grind impetus, like roleplayers.

[Sky]

Did you just call roleplayers griefing douchebags who don't play the game?

[SnakeCharmer]

Robot Jesus could make a perfect MMO and people here would wax poetic angst hate at it.
Sheesh.

[Yegolev]

Douchebaggery in VW can be greatly reduced by putting the carrots in different places.

Are you talking about having sex in an uncomfortable place?

[Venkman]

Did you just call roleplayers griefing douchebags who don't play the game?

Troll :)

No, he was just saying that some douch are not interested in carrots and some roleplayers are not interested in carrots, and therefore share in never really advancing. But that's the only real link. Forget the labels: it really is just common sense, something we all know: if you don'ts plays the games you don'ts gain the levels.

[Nonentity]

Did you just call roleplayers griefing douchebags who don't play the game?

No, they exist in tandem with the Douchebaggery Corps. They are the target of douchebag-fueled activities.

[Endie]

Are you talking about having sex in an uncomfortable place?

You mean in the back of Raph's Volkswagen?

[Thelurker]

What continues to taunt me is that I have yet to see an idea that Raph has talked about actually succesfully and properly implemented in a game.

Bingo. You win.

No, I dont hate Raph.

Bottom line: Show us you can walk the walk, and not just talk the talk. If it is an awesome game, I will actually buy it. So there Raph, you have a potential customer. Show me through action, because ideas and talk are both cheap. Show me it doesnt just look good on paper, but will actually work.

Show me that your fanboi petting isn't just for personal ego, but that you really do have ideas that will work in practice IN TODAYS MMO MARKET.

[Krakrok]

"We're not talking about the business model, but again there we're also inspired by the web, web 2.0, user participation, all of that sort of thing... I think it's fair to say that we won't be following the path of the straight-up mainstream CD ROM MMOs,"

Which part of this quote didn't you understand? I doubt there will even be a box for you to buy.

[Thelurker]

Which part of this quote didn't you understand? I doubt there will even be a box for you to buy.

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Thanks anyway.

[Hellinar]

Show me that your fanboi petting isn't just for personal ego, but that you really do have ideas that will work in practice IN TODAYS MMO MARKET.

Isn’t the point of Areae to work in TOMORROWS MMO market? We have already been there and done that in today’s market. That’s where all the theory comes in, as a framework for trying something new. Theory is one way of connecting past learning to future action. And Raph at least has some theory beyond “Make another WoW, but with playable dragons”.

As for the SWG thing, I think the critical point has already been made by co-founder John:

 

SOE specifically did not want another game with the same style of gameplay as EQ, Planetside, or Sovereign. We chose a virtual world – the most successful one to date was UO and we had the team of people who worked on UO who were assigned to build the game. SOE didn’t have a virtual world, nor was it in the process of building one. It “fit” within the product strategy, even if in hindsight it may not have fit with the license. At the time, I supported this decision, and our tagline became “live in the Star Wars universe”.

In one hand they had a round peg, the Star Wars license.  In the other, a square hole, room in the product lineup for a virtual world type product. Someone at a high level decided to hammer the round peg into the square hole. Breakages ensued.

History might have been different if they had had Raph and no Star Wars license. Or the Star Wars license and no Raph. But thems the breaks. Its good to see Raph picking himself up and trying again.

[Merusk]

Which part of this quote didn't you understand? I doubt there will even be a box for you to buy.

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Thanks anyway.

It has EVERYTHING to do with what EVERYONE's been talking about.

Because, if you'd been paying attention to Raph for the last several years, you'd know already - Fan and Foe alike - this isn't being made for you.  I'd guesstimate it's not being made for gamers, period. We're too niche.  Thus, my complete apathy about this argument I usually find so entertaining, I suppose.  

[WayAbvPar]

Actually, we know a lot about Areae. I don't want to get into it, but from Raph's book, his ramblings about social spaces, and his grassroots campaign for both employees and press - well, you can read into it.

Here's to hoping he doesn't have an official forum. Man, that would be a fucking mistake. Between his supporters and the people who will register just to talk about SW:G, whew, I wouldn't want to set foot in there. It's bad enough that every time crafting, economics, or Raph gets mentioned ANYWHERE (including here), the thread becomes Just Another SWG thread. I suppose it's unavoidable though.

See? This is why they need me as Community Manager. Or at least with the power to ban 'tards by the thousands.

[tazelbain]

Good job mocking the venture capitalists, Raph, they have been getting a free lunch for way to long.

[Yoru]

Jesus, it wasn't that long ago.

"We're not talking about the business model, but again there we're also inspired by the web, web 2.0, user participation, all of that sort of thing... I think it's fair to say that we won't be following the path of the straight-up mainstream CD ROM MMOs,"

Which part of this quote didn't you understand? I doubt there will even be a box for you to buy.

Bingo.

Raph: My startup is funded. It is not funded by anything in the video game industry. It will not have a subscription fee and it will not come on a CD.

Show me that your fanboi petting isn't just for personal ego, but that you really do have ideas that will work in practice IN TODAYS MMO MARKET.

Isn’t the point of Areae to work in TOMORROWS MMO market? We have already been there and done that in today’s market. That’s where all the theory comes in, as a framework for trying something new. Theory is one way of connecting past learning to future action. And Raph at least has some theory beyond “Make another WoW, but with playable dragons”.

Again, bingo.

[Slyfeind]

What continues to taunt me is that I have yet to see an idea that Raph has talked about actually succesfully and properly implemented in a game.

Actually I agree here. My biggest worry is Raph tries something too new, instead of refining what he's done before. WOW refined EQ and DAOC, and now it's time for someone to refine UO and SWG.

[Krakrok]

This thread needs more SecondLife. NSFW.

[Bunk]

I've always felt that Raph's general ideas would have fit better in to a game that didn't revolve around combat. If this is heading where it apepars to be, which is a socially oriented game, then his "vision" might work.

That being said, even completely socially oriented games will still attract the types that get a kick out of making annonymous people cry. Honestly though, I still think a virtual world should be left to police itself as much as possible. That doesn't work when the systems reward those that take the easiest and most anti social routes (that was what really killed UO).

Whatever it ends up being, and whether it dominates the world or happens to blow chunks, I'm sure it will give us plenty to talk about.

Oh, and TehLurker is a douche. Be happy Geldon, nobody thinks you are the biggest douche in this thread. :)

[geldonyetich]

I'll have to try harder.

[hal]

You are over achieving again. Still. More.

[schild]

HERRO.

Point of order.

If I see the phrase "Tomorrow's MMO Market" one more time, ooooh there's no end to what I'll do. That sort of stupid shit should be illlegal.

It's up there with something not being for you! Insert Penny Arcade Comic here.

[Akkori]

A game can have fun combat and a social environment. It just needs a portal for players to access the different area's. "Sliders" meets "Ravenloft". Hell, I thought it would be cool as hell to have an Age of Empires/Civiilization kind of game married to BF2 and Eve. Okay, time for my medication...

Sadly, the anonymity granted by any online game will bring out the worst in many. Especially acne-riddled kids with an already perverted view of morality and honor (thanks mtv icons). Put peoples real faces up there and make there some kind of "real" consequences for general asshattery, and you'll see most of it go away.

[Merusk]

I'm still trying to figure out where you all are getting the idea they're building a game in any way shape or form. 

[Cheddar]

I'm still trying to figure out where you all are getting the idea they're building a game in any way shape or form. 

One prediction we can make: it will be a game.  I am putting money on some sort of browser based game or small digital download that will allow people to hop in immediately.  Of course I reserve the right to change my prediction at any point in time, even after said product ships.

[Endie]

I'm still trying to figure out where you all are getting the idea they're building a game in any way shape or form. 

Ooooh, I dunno.. the second post in this thread?

Hey, I'm a game guy. And I have people who are waiting for the next Raph-worldy thing. I'm not going to ignore them.

[Nyght]

A key question is world persistence.

As much as the above quote suggests it, I am betting no.

[Ironwood]

Key for whom ?

[Merusk]

It wasn't a question, it was a jab.  UO and SWG were not games, they were worlds (and fairly half-baked at that). There's a vast difference between the two things.

[Nyght]

Key for whom ?

Well read one post up: "people who are waiting for the next Raph-worldy thing."

I guess that is not you huh?