Schilling's Green Monster Games

[Margalis]

I think in this case you guys just want to get your hate on without reason.

The odds are that this game will be mediocre, as most games are, but beyond that there isn't much here of substance to dislike. Releasing a smaller game with the same IP before releasing the larger more expensive game is not a bad strategy. It's the Torchlight strategy and I didn't see anyone hating on that.

There are so few details about the game I don't see how anyone can having opinions pro or con.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm just disgusted that this thread is up to 40 pages despite there being nothing at all to talk about.

[Musashi]

Well, to be fair, a lot of this thread is about trying to make it stop.

[CharlieMopps]

I think in this case you guys just want to get your hate on without reason.

The odds are that this game will be mediocre, as most games are, but beyond that there isn't much here of substance to dislike. Releasing a smaller game with the same IP before releasing the larger more expensive game is not a bad strategy. It's the Torchlight strategy and I didn't see anyone hating on that.

There are so few details about the game I don't see how anyone can having opinions pro or con.

Well... R.A. Salvator, Todd McFarlane, several ex-SOE employees, and they are talking consoles. That seems to me like a giant blinking "Nothing new!" sign to me.

Well worth tracking the thread as everyone abandons ship.

[Draegan]

I'm all about hating games, but you guys are just hating for the sake of hating.

I'm just curious what Salvatore and McFarlane end up contributing.  It'll be interesting how little or how much comes through and if it's good or bad.

[stu]

Making a smaller scale game is smart. They can establish some continuity and focus on the tone of their new world for future projects. I'm just surprised that they're already neck deep into an MMO before their first title has been released. 

[HaemishM]

I'm all about hating games, but you guys are just hating for the sake of hating.

Yeah, this. Nothing about this strategy proves that the console, non-MMO game is going to suck (other than Salvatore and McFarlane's involvment, but we've been over that). If the game is good, it builds positive buzz for the MMO. Now we can argue over whether the single-player console RPG and the PC MMOG markets have sufficient overlap to be an effective use of resources.

But yeah, we really have entirely too little information on the world, the game mechanics or anything else to make any value judgements yet. But we can still hate on Salvatore for being a hack, McFarlane for being a derivative dick and Schilling for pimping his game long before he has anything of substance to report on.  

[Draegan]

Well you can harp on the EA relationship.  I don't think you can be a dick towards Curt, he's pretty much been closed mouthed about it for a long while now.  I don't have any opinion on McFarlane other than he's a pretty good artist, but I don't buy toys or comics.  I don't get the hate for Salvatore either.  To each their own though.

[schild]

I'm just hoping their not trying to rework something else into something else.

[Nebu]

I'm just hoping their not trying to rework something else into something else.

You just made me cry. 

[tazelbain]

Eye no, rite?

[UnSub]

f13.net: Usefully cynical commentary... and spelling and grammar lessons.

[gehrig38]

Look for something that actually matters, information wise, soon, REAL soon. Like before the end of the month soon.
And ya, this thread, even though I didn't start it, started WAAAAAY too early.

It's our nature as gamers though right? The second we get wind of something new, we break it down, tear it apart and rip it for everything it's worth during the 3-5 year development cycle.

Unfortunately there are far more games that deserved this treatment than there are games that proved us wrong.

[Nebu]

I have to confess that I feel for ya, Curt.  By jumping into the game development arena you've opened yourself up to criticism from two separate groups of nerds.  Being a Bill James follower, I happen to belong to both of them. 

Will be interesting to see what information gets released.   

[gehrig38]

The thing is this though.

Many of the folks in this arena have no clue what I did for a living, and that I played 10 years in Philly, and 5 in Boston, and was thick skinned BEFORE both of those tours.

The stuff thrown around here is not an issue, water off a ducks back except when people get personal about my team and the people they know nothing about.
The RA bashing, Todd bashing, it's old hat. When you become one of the best in the world at what you do, you get haters, haters who've never come close to achieving things those folks have, nor have they tried.

The easy part in all this for me is that in the very same manner in which I was a fan LONG before I was a player, I was a gamer LONG before I actually 'got in' to the industry. I was part of the jaded masses my entire life, to some degree I still am.

[Tearofsoul]

So, Curt, as a gamer and founder of 38 studio, "which direction are you going after" when it comes down to developing an MMO?

A good game

or

An "money printer"

I know it kinda doesn't make sense, An "money printer" is gonna be a good game. However, a good/unique game might not be an money printer (but still success).  Do you OFTEN put aside your gamer role/perspective? Furthermore, what kind of fanbase are you aiming for?

[Nebu]

Stuff

Anyone else having MJ stalker flashbacks?   

[Draegan]

Stuff

Anyone else having MJ stalker flashbacks?   

I just did.

Many of the folks in this arena have no clue what I did for a living, and that I played 10 years in Philly, and 5 in Boston, and was thick skinned BEFORE both of those tours.

I'm not sure who is worse:  Phili fans or Boston fans.  Hmmm.

[gehrig38]

So, Curt, as a gamer and founder of 38 studio, "which direction are you going after" when it comes down to developing an MMO?

A good game

or

An "money printer"

I know it kinda doesn't make sense, An "money printer" is gonna be a good game. However, a good/unique game might not be an money printer (but still success).  Do you OFTEN put aside your gamer role/perspective? Furthermore, what kind of fanbase are you aiming for?

You can make a good game that prints money, aka WoW, you can make a money printer that's not a good game. You can make a good game that's NOT a money printer.

At the end of the day you make decisions on course, and as easy as it sounds, it's not, you adhere to that focus and direction for YEARS of development, and imo if what you set out to create was an awesome game, you can get there.

One of the core tenants in the company HAS to be honesty. When it sucks, everyone has to be in a place where saying it sucks is seen as a good thing. You're asking so many people to make such a huge investment on a personal level that you want them all to feel and take ownership to some degree.

That's why I believe in this team, given what they've done, what they've been a part of, they've made some great games, and some stinkers, and they know the difference. Most important is they aren't afraid to speak up when something sucks and just as important no one offers the 'it sucks' without offering a resolution to not making it suck.

[Lantyssa]

Look for something that actually matters, information wise, soon, REAL soon. Like before the end of the month soon.
And ya, this thread, even though I didn't start it, started WAAAAAY too early.

Looking forward to finding out some real info after forty pages of not knowing much.  I'm glad to see you're learning, too.

Now if you'll pardon me, I need to go check out the SWTOR thread...  

[Signe]

Stuff

Anyone else having MJ stalker flashbacks?   

I just did.

Many of the folks in this arena have no clue what I did for a living, and that I played 10 years in Philly, and 5 in Boston, and was thick skinned BEFORE both of those tours.

I'm not sure who is worse:  Phili fans or Boston fans.  Hmmm.

Phli fans?  Phili?  If you were Santa Claus, I'd throw something hard at you. 

[Musashi]

So.  You say you believe in your team?  Fascinating.

[Lantyssa]

Or that Santa didn't bring her what she wanted for X-mas.

[Ghambit]

As long-winded as this thread is, I still have trouble figuring out why there's virtually no information on this game.  I mean, what if I, Ghambit, had many millions I was thinking of investing.  Would be kind of helpful to know what's out there w/o having a "sit-down" and NDA-signings.  I know I've said it before but I just think it's semi-retarded keeping such silence on something such as this, and I dont care what kind of artistic license or super-duper-new tech. you think you're protecting.  Still does more harm than good unless you're some corporate self-sustaining giant.

Green Monster seems more on the level of a budding CCP or Flying Labs, both of which had very informative dev. cycles early on... only Green Monster is silent.

[dusematic]

As long-winded as this thread is, I still have trouble figuring out why there's virtually no information on this game.  I mean, what if I, Ghambit, had many millions I was thinking of investing.  Would be kind of helpful to know what's out there w/o having a "sit-down" and NDA-signings.  I know I've said it before but I just think it's semi-retarded keeping such silence on something such as this, and I dont care what kind of artistic license or super-duper-new tech. you think you're protecting.  Still does more harm than good unless you're some corporate self-sustaining giant.

Green Monster seems more on the level of a budding CCP or Flying Labs, both of which had very informative dev. cycles early on... only Green Monster is silent.

I think the idea is once you start talking about shit you open the door to a freewheeling discussion where everyone expects you to talk about it and disseminate information.  Also, if you announce what the game is all about and then don't give any details for 3 years people will be a lot more annoyed.  I'm also assuming they're worried about discussing features and ideas which they can't be sure will be included in the final game.  You know, the sort of stuff MMOG players have been bitching about for years.

[Draegan]

I don't see any issue with how they are approaching this.  I all for shutting the fuck up about your game until you can.. you know.. talk about your game.

It's fine with me.

[Ghambit]

As long-winded as this thread is, I still have trouble figuring out why there's virtually no information on this game.  I mean, what if I, Ghambit, had many millions I was thinking of investing.  Would be kind of helpful to know what's out there w/o having a "sit-down" and NDA-signings.  I know I've said it before but I just think it's semi-retarded keeping such silence on something such as this, and I dont care what kind of artistic license or super-duper-new tech. you think you're protecting.  Still does more harm than good unless you're some corporate self-sustaining giant.

Green Monster seems more on the level of a budding CCP or Flying Labs, both of which had very informative dev. cycles early on... only Green Monster is silent.

I think the idea is once you start talking about shit you open the door to a freewheeling discussion where everyone expects you to talk about it and disseminate information.  Also, if you announce what the game is all about and then don't give any details for 3 years people will be a lot more annoyed.  I'm also assuming they're worried about discussing features and ideas which they can't be sure will be included in the final game.  You know, the sort of stuff MMOG players have been bitching about for years.

And it's somehow less annoying when you simply say "we've got a game" for three years with no detail?    Many many many studios give at LEAST "rough drafts" of what they're planning many years before release, features or not.  And since when is freewheeling discussion unhealthy?  (especially with smaller houses)

The only other studio as tight-lipped as GMG is Blizzard and their "new mmo."  And one could say GMG has been at it much longer than Blizz with their new projects.  If I recall, Blizz only just started filling out their ranks the middle of last year (GMG way before that).  Bah, I'll just drop it...  we've been through this over and over again and I really dont care as much as I make it seem.

[Nebu]

I don't see any issue with how they are approaching this.  I all for shutting the fuck up about your game until you can.. you know.. talk about your game.

It's fine with me.

This. 

Too much hype about vaporware in the past.  I think it's a great idea to be working quietly in the background until the moment you can hit hard with something worth paying attention to.  The question is: is this a game worth paying attention to?  We'll know soon enough. 

[Draegan]

I also don't mind a company saying, "Hey guys we're starting a company and making a game.  Just to let you know.  Talk to you in four years."

I even don't mind hearing from companies if they have hired people that I might know of.

What you don't want is someone saying, "We're thinking about having these awesome food dispensers that you can put in your in game house... which you can build on your own brick by brick... it's totally awesome... and these food dispensers will give you buffs for when you're leveling and last as long as you're in game..." Then the game releases and there is no player housing.

[gehrig38]

This!

What I didn't realize three years ago about my situation.
I started chatting more on the boards when GMG opened because, well, because I'm an MMO player that opened up a studio making an MMO.

Thought it would be 'the right thing' to do.

Turns out not so much. Because once the wheels started spinning the one thing I COULD NOT do was talk about cool game features for the simple fact I'd be talking out of my butt, and likely talking about things that would NEVER be in our game.

[Ard]

It makes me sad.  I've started to see the same level of zealotry that was surrounding Vanguard, but with nothing to talk about.  Dammit Curt, start taking some meth or something and pull some crap out of thin air.  Life isn't the same without tasty, delicious, MMO dev drama.

[schild]

Thought it would be 'the right thing' to do.

Turns out not so much.

No one ever listens to me, don't feel bad. I'm sure there will be a thousand other easily avoided mistakes if you all (like all other gaming companies) just hired a designer whose title was "fun police" but I don't see that happening soon either. I also think that person should be called the 'fun nazi."

[HaemishM]

I'm not sure who is worse:  Phili fans or Boston fans.  Hmmm.

Philly fans, but it's a close run thing.

[Rasix]

I'd say chucking batteries at JD Drew puts them solidly in the lead.

[HaemishM]

Quantity over quality.