Schilling's Green Monster Games

[WindupAtheist]

Actually, my comment was an indirect reference to Mark Jacobs from EA, who came here to post up a storm about Warhammer and then disappeared in a hail of tomatoes when the game turned out to be a giant stinking flop. It was a hilarious clusterfuck with heaps of Warhammer players, who had never even heard of f13 before, flooding in here to either obsequiously lick his balls or scream frantically at him, all while posting their own epic-length idiotic game proposals.

Good on you for having a thick skin, I guess. Lord knows you'll need it, even if your game is awesome.

[Falwell]

So how many on your team now Schilling? I keep seeing new hire news from you guys almost.... well... damn near constantly.

[gehrig38]

We're right around 75 or so now.

[Ghambit]

I've got a quasi-complex (i.e. simple) question.  What exactly is the determining factor (in Private and Public corps) for how locklipped a company is about a game they're developing? 

To me, it's always been a bit counterproductive (and slightly egotistical) to treat the game like it's some CIA operative who must remain undercover until its time to strike.  Movies dont do this (they announce the moment there's an idea), Music doesnt do this,  virtually every other form of entertainment usually fesses up as soon as the intention is made and the money is there.  The latter only being a factor due to personal pride if the money dries up.

Not only that, but many of these games are on established IPs that are already in the public domain... therefore keeping quiet is kinda just dumb (and pulls easy marketing from the IP).  And those that are "original" (let's be real, there's no such thing) have their inherent IPs protected anyways, pre-production.  To top it all off, you limit your ability to pull talent/ideas/criticism from the public during the most crucial phase of development - The Beginning.   Effectively painting yourself into a hole. 

Hype is hype and there's really no such thing as bad hype; every good publicist and agent knows this.  And as for prospective Publishers, ANY hype is a major bargaining chip in favor of the studio in whatever contract they draw up... hence more money is saved in the long run (aside from any assets gleaned from the public).

@Gehrig, has Salvatore thought of perhaps publishing some paper fiction based on the world you guys have drawn up, in advance of the game's release?  From what I've been reading (in interviews and his books) the world's probably pretty deep and fleshed-out as of today.  It'd be a wise move generating interest and income from the local Barnes&Noble.  I recall Funcom doing the same thing with AoC and it actually worked out pretty well (for the book and the initial sales that is).  And if you really want to sell people on "buying into" the gamespace you're designing (something I know you and your Creative Designer craves), a good book(s) to curl up and read in advance is a godsend.  Hell, self-publish it even (if he's allowed).

[Morfiend]

can't seem to log into WOW, just can't do it.

Its funny, I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this exact thing. Having played on an off since release, we have both got to the point where we want to play, but the idea of logging in just makes you feel a little sick in the stomach. The game is really good, but when you are that burnt out on something you just wont enjoy it.

And for a little starfucking of my own. Schilling, please please take note of the WAR forum, and the AoC forums. That is how not to do it.

[Hawkbit]

can't seem to log into WOW, just can't do it.

Its funny, I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this exact thing. Having played on an off since release, we have both got to the point where we want to play, but the idea of logging in just makes you feel a little sick in the stomach. The game is really good, but when you are that burnt out on something you just wont enjoy it.

And for a little starfucking of my own. Schilling, please please take note of the WAR forum, and the AoC forums. That is how not to do it.

Same.  I figured it out for myself a few months ago.  WoW is great when there's story-based quest content available.  Once I get to a point where I've got to repeat quests and dungeons, I'm not going to play anymore.  It makes sense, because I don't watch the same episode of TV multiple times and I don't finish a book and start reading it immediately after.

There's the trick to making successful 3rd gen morgs:  they need constant content updates for players that devour material and put that on top of a good game.

[Nebu]

There's the trick to making successful 3rd gen morgs:  they need constant content updates for players that devour material and put that on top of a good game.

Short of quest generators with repeating, tile-based dungeons, I don't think this will ever happen.  Good content takes far too many resources to release at a rate that would ever stay ahead of the playerbase.  CoH has the right idea with allowing players to generate content, but this is an easily abused mechanic when not implemented correctly. 

This message brought to you by the Nebu-states-the-obvious Foundation and the number 7. 

[Lantyssa]

If only content wasn't tied to leveling so people didn't blow through it as fast as possible while mostly ignoring the details...

<insert anti-DIKU rant>

[Yegolev]

Quiet, you.   

[HaemishM]

If devs 'keeping their mouths open' bothers you there's a simple solution, don't read the posts or skip the threads.

I'd be a lot less tweaked about devs blabbing if they would tend to blab about other things on this forum than the thread wherein they pimp their game. You might say I'd actually welcome the discussion outside of the tiny bounds of this thread.

[Ghambit]

[HaemishM]

It's Tuesday, I'm pissier than normal and I'm pretty sure Schilling just told me he can take it. He might also have told me to go fuck myself subtly. 

[Murgos]

I don't think that was very subtle.

It would be nice though if he actually discussed something though.  Bombast can be fun and all but saying nothing bombastically isn't really very interesting.

It (preferably) doesn't even have to be about either his game OR baseball but a little insight into what he likes in MMO's would at least give people some idea what to expect.

[Montague]

It's Tuesday, I'm pissier than normal and I'm pretty sure Schilling just told me he can take it. He might also have told me to go fuck myself subtly. 

If he's dropped 20 mill into this and it's crap I don't think any amount of sass from us is gonna sting as much as him having to pull a Gaylord Perry and go back to pitching till he's 50.

[Nebu]

It's Tuesday, I'm pissier than normal and I'm pretty sure Schilling just told me he can take it. He might also have told me to go fuck myself subtly. 

He could at least add to the WoW discussion.  Seems he knows a thing or two about that title. 

[Ghambit]

It's Tuesday, I'm pissier than normal and I'm pretty sure Schilling just told me he can take it. He might also have told me to go fuck myself subtly. 

If he's dropped 20 mill into this and it's crap I don't think any amount of sass from us is gonna sting as much as him having to pull a Gaylord Perry and go back to pitching till he's 50.

yet another reason why it's pointless being secretive about these games.  The money is spent and the IP is secured regardless.
We know/known more about a slew of other games less far along in development than Schilling's - yet we dont even have a PREMISE behind his game.   It's like this whole "fear of rejection" motif is rampant within the dorky confines of gaming studios.  Nobody wants to expose themselves unless they're sure they're cool enough.  I can understand it for something like Blizzard's next-gen MMO where there's billions at stake (especially when you consider the effect it might have on WoW subs), the game is huge, and they barely have a staff yet.  But this is a self-monetized, smaller, "indy-title" that's further along and near fully staffed right?

cmon Schill... spill the beans!

give us the premise, give us some lore, sell us some books, etc.  Let the fansites be born!
And christ man, I swear you probably coulda sold 1 million paperbacks by now.  McFarlane, Salvatore, and Schilling??  no-brainer.... you'd get your 20mill back just in book sales.  Parley it into polishing the game.

[Mrbloodworth]

It's Tuesday, I'm pissier than normal and I'm pretty sure Schilling just told me he can take it. He might also have told me to go fuck myself subtly. 

If he's dropped 20 mill into this and it's crap I don't think any amount of sass from us is gonna sting as much as him having to pull a Gaylord Perry and go back to pitching till he's 50.

yet another reason why it's pointless being secretive about these games.  The money is spent and the IP is secured regardless.
We know/known more about a slew of other games less far along in development than Schilling's - yet we dont even have a PREMISE behind his game.   It's like this whole "fear of rejection" motif is rampant within the dorky confines of gaming studios.  Nobody wants to expose themselves unless they're sure they're cool enough.  I can understand it for something like Blizzard's next-gen MMO where there's billions at stake (especially when you consider the effect it might have on WoW subs), the game is huge, and they barely have a staff yet.  But this is a self-monetized, smaller, "indy-title" that's further along and near fully staffed right?

cmon Schill... spill the beans!

give us the premise, give us some lore, sell us some books, etc.  Let the fansites be born!
And christ man, I swear you probably coulda sold 1 million paperbacks by now.  McFarlane, Salvatore, and Schilling??  no-brainer.... you'd get your 20mill back just in book sales.  Parley it into polishing the game.

I think its working. You REALLLLLY want to know what it is, and trying to package that want, into "Come on, its not like keeping it a secret helps".

[WindupAtheist]

I'm sure the idea of tie-in novels has come up. It's too obvious. Such are either on their way, or are scuttled by some legal/contractual thing that I wouldn't know about.

[stu]

Heck, even Resident Evil has tie in books.

It (preferably) doesn't even have to be about either his game OR baseball but a little insight into what he likes in MMO's would at least give people some idea what to expect.

There was some good discussion like that back on page 16, although I think it was mostly about PC and board games.

Just want to ask again, is this game going to have Brewmasters? I miss crafting in MMOs, which is strange because I'm not sure I've ever had my money's worth of fun in that department. Even though I know nothing would be disclosed now, I'm putting it out there again because I have hope.

[Ghambit]

I'm sure the idea of tie-in novels has come up. It's too obvious. Such are either on their way, or are scuttled by some legal/contractual thing that I wouldn't know about.

It'd make no sense making a contract that doesnt take mutual advantage of the game/novels.  The novel gains near-free publicity due to the game's potential existence and the game likewise due to the novel's.  Not to mention the advantages of having a public that's intimately aware of your gameworld, and therefore more accepting of all its nuances.  And dont forget the possiblities of a graphic novel with McFarlane being there.  Hell, the game could bomb and you'd still have enough to float the bottom-line.  And what good is trying to get people to buy into the gameworld when the game could very well prevent them from doing-so (or wanting to); you dont pen that much lore with the intention of immortalizing it through a game that may or may not succeed.

Chunk out some books for all these bored MMOers to read this Summer; I need a new Universe to like (this one sux ass anyways).

[HaemishM]

I don't have a problem with devs hyping their game... when there's something to hype. If you don't have in-game footage you can show to the public, I DON'T CARE, because nothing you talk about is going to appear in the game. It's also probably going to be years away from me seeing it. Hyping concept art that's 3 years out from having an in-game version? 3D Model renders that are higher res than they will ever appear in the game? Cinematic trailers that tell me nothing about the gameplay?

Leave it. Give me solid, game-specific information about the game or please talk about something else on a community forum that is not a knobslobbering fansite. Like Politics, or other games, or movies or ANYTHING but your game.

Or in other words, don't be a Mark Jacobs.

[Grimwell]

My kindler, gentler version of Haemish's  :

You could announce a game six months before release and the hype machine will still work for you. Plus you will have a lot of  tangible and very interesting near-release content to show off and fuel the hype machine into a raving frenzy.

In the past, more than a few companies talked waaaaaaay too much about a game they didn't end up making several years later. The hype machine brought in people who then spent the next few years telling each other how awesome the game was going to be and dreaming up systems based on the dribbles of information that slipped out over those years. At the point of release, the fans who had been there for years were actually set up to be failed by the game as it could not live up to three + years worth of hopes, dreams, and starfucking ideas as often as possible. Even if it was a good game, the years of anticipation and dreaming of the perfect whatevertheheckyoulike put expectations way out of line.

I get what he's saying I hope, and it's not pointless unless you really do miss those conversations from 2001 and want to have them all over again. 

As to the level of information any company can give out, it's mostly up to the CEO, legal, and brand/marketing. They sort out what's 'safe' to share without causing trouble later. 

Now then, which one of you jokers actually sent him your resume? :)

[schild]

Now then, which one of you jokers actually sent him your resume? :)

You should've asked which one of the people here would be willing to live in Boston. >_>

[SnakeCharmer]

Pfft. 

Random guy bitching about MMO's is more like:

[Tmon]

I'm sure the idea of tie-in novels has come up. It's too obvious. Such are either on their way, or are scuttled by some legal/contractual thing that I wouldn't know about.

It'd make no sense making a contract that doesnt take mutual advantage of the game/novels.  The novel gains near-free publicity due to the game's potential existence and the game likewise due to the novel's.  Not to mention the advantages of having a public that's intimately aware of your gameworld, and therefore more accepting of all its nuances.  And dont forget the possiblities of a graphic novel with McFarlane being there.  Hell, the game could bomb and you'd still have enough to float the bottom-line.  And what good is trying to get people to buy into the gameworld when the game could very well prevent them from doing-so (or wanting to); you dont pen that much lore with the intention of immortalizing it through a game that may or may not succeed.

Chunk out some books for all these bored MMOers to read this Summer; I need a new Universe to like (this one sux ass anyways).

so you guys are talking about something like this

http://dragonage.bioware.com/penpaper.html

http://dragonage.bioware.com/noveltst.html

I don't mind the hypening that happens for the these games but I am pretty sick of the whole, "I have a secret I can't tell you anything but it is super cool and did I mention I have a secret" thing that some devs seem to enjoy.  Come here talk games and theory along with the rest of the people but for Pete's sake shut up about your game until you have something you can tell people that is actually worth discussing.

[Ghambit]

Look at the quality work Funcom is doing with TSW.  Even if the game doesnt release or just plain sux, it was still worthwhile for them to publicize it as they did and the public is eating it up currently (and enjoying it).  And that game is barely a glint in Ragnar's eye.  Really though, how much is lost if something fails and they talked about it years in advance???  Not a damned thing 'cept bruised egoes, even if you're in it for the long-haul in a large company.  Anyone here care that Perpetual dumped StO and GnH?  at first I did... but really, I could give 2-shits at this point (and I alphaed GnH).  If they come up with something cool again I'll be there in the same capacity.

[naum]

Random guy bitching about MMO's is more like:

      

[Morfiend]

SnakeCharmer wins this thread.

[Morfiend]

Now then, which one of you jokers actually sent him your resume? :)

You should've asked which one of the people here would be willing to live in Boston. >_>

You moved to Texas.

So I think the answer to both questions is.... Schild.

[schild]

So I think the answer to both questions is.... Schild.

Whoa there hombre, I've wanted to move to Austin for years. It was on the short list before I even moved to Phoenix. Boston, however, is not even a little bit on that list.

[Ghambit]

Do you even need to be localized to be a Community Manager? 
More times than not those folks end up doing half their work from home anyways.  (into the wee hours of the night)
If you factor in the cost of living in Boston vs. Austin, even if you commuted once a week you wouldnt come close to making up the difference in airfare costs.
And for a tighter-walleted, smaller studio, paying someone from Austin is cheaper than someone from Boston.

[idea implanted]

[Merusk]

As a CM you still want to be in the office and face-to-face with the team so you can hear the scuttlebutt and drop into on-the-fly meetings.  If you're 'just a GM' or Post moderator, yeah you can be distant.  If you're an actual Community manager, you lose too much by being located elsewhere.

[schild]

As a CM you still want to be in the office and face-to-face with the team so you can hear the scuttlebutt and drop into on-the-fly meetings.  If you're 'just a GM' or Post moderator, yeah you can be distant.  If you're an actual Community manager, you lose too much by being located elsewhere.

I'm not going to jump in and say wrong or right, but rather just to state fact: There have been plenty of relatively competent CRMs that worked remotely. And that's that, there will be no followup to that comment.

[Lantyssa]

Look at the quality work Funcom is doing with TSW.

They've turned it into a meta-game though.  It kinda sorta works for setting the mood.

As a counter example:  Pretty much any MMO released to date.  We're seeing it yet again with SWTOR.

[Grimwell]

As a CM you still want to be in the office and face-to-face with the team so you can hear the scuttlebutt and drop into on-the-fly meetings.  If you're 'just a GM' or Post moderator, yeah you can be distant.  If you're an actual Community manager, you lose too much by being located elsewhere.

This has been my experience. Even in companies that communicate insanely well... there is a lot to be gained by taking folks on the game team out for lunch, sneaking into their meetings, and just sitting on their desks until they give up some answers. 

Remote CM work can be done, and done well, but the advantage is in the favor of having some face time each week too (IMO).