Schilling's Green Monster Games

[schild]

38 Studios is an unusual company.

You're telling me.

First, RA Salvatore. A burnt out sci-fi/fantasy writer.
Second, Todd McFarlane, the american equivilent of Akira Toriyama - except his games don't sell like, well, Toriyama stuff.
Finally, the UE3 engine: A engine so buried under the ire of being incomplete that I didn't think anyone else would pick it up - let alone a company making an MMORPG.

Does anyone else think Mr. Schillings money is better spent elsewhere? Or am I lost in some fantasyland where this is all COMPLETELY REASONABLE?

[tmp]

...And "Copernicus" will use Unreal Engine 3 (more jaggies for ya!!! :P) :

They've picked UE3 for client side visuals and BigWorld architecture for server end, so it's pretty much like Stargate Worlds in that regard. I'd link to the official announcement but since their website is all Flash, that makes linking to anything but front page rather impossible. gg.

[tmp]

Does anyone else think Mr. Schillings money is better spent elsewhere? Or am I lost in some fantasyland where this is all COMPLETELY REASONABLE?

Here's some reasoning behind it, straight from horse's mouth so to speak: http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/24711-green-monster-games-curt-schilling-198.html#post1003791

In the end this was by far the best solution(s) for many of our questions going forward. Unreal allows for rapid prototyping, which has to happen to drive out risk as fast as humanly possibly.

There is so much to the core game that we must validate now, today, before we even approach the 'cool' stuff. This core game stuff has to be the end all be all regardless of how 'mundane' or 'simple' it might be. Being able to get these things up and running will allow us to spend YEARS vetting. If it stops being fun, and part of it, a year or two from now, we're negligent if we think it will be fun for you. Unreal allows this to happen, not to mention they are some pretty cool people.

[schild]

So, Nebulous Fun + Cool.

I'm finding it hard to believe that BigWorld + UE3 is the only combination that allows for rapid prototyping.

[Margalis]

To be fair the majority of UE3 complaints seem centered around console.

[sidereal]

I like to rapid prototype in text-mode curses.  I can find out if combat is fun really fast when my big @ sign attacks the evil capital letter D.  Regardless, the environment I rapid prototype in has nothing to do with the final appearance.  So I assume Ngruk is meaning that they're going to plan for switching rendering engines when they're done prototyping?  Good luck with that.

[Moorgard]

I'm finding it hard to believe that BigWorld + UE3 is the only combination that allows for rapid prototyping.

Not at all. We just decided it was the right one for us. And so far we're really happy with that decision, as both artists and designers have been able to jump into UE3 and begin making useful prototypes with extremely minimal impact on engineering.

Ultimately, of course, engine announcements in and of themselves should be neither causes for excitement or pessimism just yet.

But yeah, we've got engines. We've got a plan. We're making stuff. So far, so good. My preference would be to shut the hell up for a couple years until we have something substantial to show, but Schilling likes to talk, so it's unlikely I'll get my wish. 

[Jerrith]

I'm finding it hard to believe that BigWorld + UE3 is the only combination that allows for rapid prototyping.

It's not, but it sounds like it was the best one, given their situation.

Not at all. We just decided it was the right one for us. And so far we're really happy with that decision, as both artists and designers have been able to jump into UE3 and begin making useful prototypes with extremely minimal impact on engineering.

Bolded the important part. *grins*

My preference would be to shut the hell up for a couple years until we have something substantial to show, but Schilling likes to talk, so it's unlikely I'll get my wish. 

Everyone likes to hear about things, but my one suggestion would be try to keep to systems that are likely to be implemented.  I think one of the biggest things that upset people with what Brad McQuaid posted about Vanguard were his thoughts about systems that he'd like to see but realistically wouldn't be able to make it in for release.  Of course, to be fair, for at least some of those systems, they weren't as unlikely when he first talked about them, but they established expectations that couldn't be met for some people.

[WayAbvPar]

My preference would be to shut the hell up for a couple years until we have something substantial to show, but Schilling likes to talk, so it's unlikely I'll get my wish.  NDA

Good and bad news on that. With his injury, he should be out of the limelight for most of the year. However, that gives him ample free time to find things to blog about, so you should have your hands full 

[UnSub]

ARISE FROM THE GRAVE!

Sneak peak of Copernicus coming up on Thursday.

I don't even know what Jace Hall is.

[schild]

That was, uhhhh, fast.

[naum]

Shucks, I wanted to view Curt Schilling forum post history and garner his prescient insight on MMOG design philosophy…
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/search.php?searchid=792722

[Draegan]

Use this instead:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/search.php?searchid=793128

[gehrig38]

Or I could just post over here.....

[gehrig38]

but Schilling likes to talk, so it's unlikely I'll get my wish. 

Ya, since I'm the boss that's one of the things you have to live with working at 38 Studios.

[Venkman]

I have no idea who Jace Hall is either. But that's not a surprise. The only person in baseball I would even know on sight is a guy making an MMO  I'm so not the guy all the marketers are talking about...

[LC]

So is this going to be a straight eq/wow clone, or will it be an eq2/wow clone with guns and aliens? I love the fact that I can play these things in beta, and purge them from my HDD before I have to pay.

Edit: I read some of the thread on the FoH forums. Every other post mentioned raids, and I felt like I was going to vomit my kidneys. I can just imagine the design document for this game being cluttered with screenshots from WoW and EQ as examples.

[schild]

There's absolutely no reason to post at FoH unless you plan on appealing directly to FoH.

[gehrig38]

I disagree. In between the name calling, cussing and sniping there's some decent conversation. It derails much too quickly but it's an interesting read when it stays on topic and the topic isn't screaming raving posts about what sucks.

[schild]

I disagree. In between the name calling, cussing and sniping there's some decent conversation. It derails much too quickly but it's an interesting read when it stays on topic and the topic isn't screaming raving posts about what sucks.

What I'm saying is unlike say SA or NeoGAF, or hell, I'll even throw in f13 - the crowd there isn't what one would call diverse. They are, in fact, predictable, unruly, and badly moderated. And posting over there basically says 'hay, these are the types of guys I want to play my game." Remember, the net is fast and if that's where the bulk of your conversation is prior to release, it will leave more than a lasting impression. Also, when you don't deliver, the horrors you will be subject to are far worse than basically every other part of the web. Whatever though, it's your mone.... errrrr funeral. Or something.

Also, they have something called the 'retard rickshaw' and the 'rimjob arena.' Basically, I don't care how big you were in your guild, how much money you have, how groundbreaking your game is said to be, or how much you loved EQ - fact of the matter is PR should be keeping you away from places like that. At the very least Blackguard should be. /snarl

[gehrig38]

Also, when you don't deliver, \

Ya, that's not an option.

[schild]

Also, when you don't deliver, \

Ya, that's not an option.

Well, it's never an option. It just sort of 'happens.' I can tell you exactly how much faith the intelligentsia of the community have in McFarlane to not deliver the generica. But that's neither here nor there. You're missing my point.

[LC]

I was always under the impression that FoH is strictly a piss bottle and poop sock crowd.

[schild]

I was always under the impression that FoH is strictly a piss bottle and poop sock crowd.

That's half of my point.

Edit: Also, there are some games that should be targeting FoH and communities like it. That's to say, games from established companies that can do such a thing without hurting their image. But at the moment, the last person who did that was... Brad McQuaid. His community manager and PR people definitely didn't have a leash on him.

[photek]

I was always under the impression that FoH is strictly a piss bottle and poop sock crowd.

That's half of my point.

Edit: Also, there are some games that should be targeting FoH and communities like it. That's to say, games from established companies that can do such a thing without hurting their image. But at the moment, the last person who did that was... Brad McQuaid. His community manager and PR people definitely didn't have a leash on him.

Brad McQuaid got it rough from the FoH'ers so it went both ways.

[Draegan]

There's absolutely no reason to post at FoH unless you plan on appealing directly to FoH.

Real life forum wars.

FOH isn't that bad though once you get passed the games.  That board attracts many of the long term MMO players who've play the game for a long period of time (if it's good).  However I could say that F13 is the worst place to post about an MMO since everyone here HATES MMOs.   

[Slayerik]

It is a rarity, but I agree with schild on this one 100%.

I have lost some interest in your game so far.

[Signe]

Brad McQuaid got it rough from the FoH'ers so it went both ways.

Why does this sound so dirty?   

I like MMOs and I dislike FOH.  (there's no point to my post, but I rarely try and make one)

[naum]

Use this instead:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/search.php?searchid=793128

That error page too…

[Murgos]

Ok, let's start with this.

I am fairly well versed in MMO's.  I have played, uh, most of them, with beta's in the teens all the way back to EQ1.

I have no idea what this game is, what its setting is, what its hook is, what it's doing different, what it's doing the same.  None, not a clue.

Is it because I don't read the internets well enough?  I go to several game sites on a weekly basis, a few on a daily basis, I usually know quite a bit about a game before it ever starts a serious marketing push prior to sale.

All, I know at this point is that it's a game funded by a group led by a baseball player, with some veteran MMO people on board.  And now I also know that the senior management likes to post on the FoH boards, long known as the extreme of the extreme of, uh, status quo, large guild, DKP, scheduled raid, cog in the wheel game play.  The last person I remember soliciting a large amount of input from that group, and hence, designing for that group, was McQuaid and that didn't turn out well, at all.

I'm not trying to talk down GMG in any way, I am concerned though that they don't seem to have a good grasp on communication to their market, the perception of what communication they do perform or how to manage expectation, things that have caused serious problems for these sorts of projects in the past.

[Draegan]

Use this instead:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/search.php?searchid=793128

That error page too…

It worked yesterday.  Just search for Ngruk's posts.  They're all in that Green Moster Games (Curt Schilling) thread.

[Draegan]

Ok, let's start with this.

I am fairly well versed in MMO's.  I have played, uh, most of them, with beta's in the teens all the way back to EQ1.

I have no idea what this game is, what its setting is, what its hook is, what it's doing different, what it's doing the same.  None, not a clue.

Is it because I don't read the internets well enough?  I go to several game sites on a weekly basis, a few on a daily basis, I usually know quite a bit about a game before it ever starts a serious marketing push prior to sale.

All, I know at this point is that it's a game funded by a group led by a baseball player, with some veteran MMO people on board.  And now I also know that the senior management likes to post on the FoH boards, long known as the extreme of the extreme of, uh, status quo, large guild, DKP, scheduled raid, cog in the wheel game play.  The last person I remember soliciting a large amount of input from that group, and hence, designing for that group, was McQuaid and that didn't turn out well, at all.

I'm not trying to talk down GMG in any way, I am concerned though that they don't seem to have a good grasp on communication to their market, the perception of what communication they do perform or how to manage expectation, things that have caused serious problems for these sorts of projects in the past.

They also have some other reputable people there like R.A. Salvatore and Todd McFarlane working for the company.  They also have a lot of MMO vets, which can be a good or a bad thing considering 90% of the games out there are ass.

Anyway, you can't compare anyone to McQuaid, you just can't.  You also can't judge a game because the guy who owns the company posts on a board.  There were fundamental problems that lead to the crap vanguard was at launch, like the internal structure of Sigil from the organization of the developers, lack of QA, all the way to the top where everything was mismanaged.

[Murgos]

Anyway, you can't compare anyone to McQuaid, you just can't.  You also can't judge a game because the guy who owns the company posts on a board.  There were fundamental problems that lead to the crap vanguard was at launch, like the internal structure of Sigil from the organization of the developers, lack of QA, all the way to the top where everything was mismanaged.

My point was that I don't want to [judge a game by x reasons] it's just that there are no other options.

[tazelbain]

Anyway, you can't compare anyone to McQuaid, you just can't.  You also can't judge a game because the guy who owns the company posts on a board.  There were fundamental problems that lead to the crap vanguard was at launch, like the internal structure of Sigil from the organization of the developers, lack of QA, all the way to the top where everything was mismanaged.

They seem to spring from the same source of unprofessionalism.

[Mrbloodworth]

I disagree. In between the name calling, cussing and sniping there's some decent conversation. It derails much too quickly but it's an interesting read when it stays on topic and the topic isn't screaming raving posts about what sucks.

He is right though, FoH is in a world of its own.