Patch 2.01 (or 1.13 if you want) patch notes (and Test Client Download)

[Righ]

Hunters really have no excuse to whine about the changes. They may need to adapt to new talent builds, but since that's going to be a freebie, it's no hardship.

The scaling of pets is gigantic. Just wow. Let's take as an example my level 60 worg, which has the following skills: natural armor 10, bite 8, howl 4, dash 3, and all resists 2. Before the patch, he has 3452 health, 4739 armor, does 68-83 damage with a 1.2s speed for 63.1 DPS (including trueshot aura), has a melee attack power of 352 and all resists of 120. After the patch, he has 4262 health, 6354 armor, does 101-117 damage with a 1.2s speed for 90.7 DPS (including trueshot aura), has a melee attack power of 646 and resists vary from 120 through to 140 based on my resistances and pet armor bonus.

In both cases measured with a marksman build with no beastmastery talents other than improved aspect of the hawk. Since the scaling is based on hunter gear, its worth knowing that I'm currently sporting 5/8 dragonstalker and 3/8 giantstalker, and other then my crossbow & brutality blade the rest of my gear is pretty ghetto, netting me 1386 RAP, 535-601 damage with 2.96s speed for 192.0 DPS before patch and 1338 RAP, 579-660 damage with 2.96s speed for 209.6 DPS after patch. The only gear substitution I made was Cloak of Shrouded Mists -> Cape of the Black Baron.

How does it compare in play? Fly both hunters to Azshara, head to the Blue Dragons and send the pet to tank one of the warrior variants (Blue Scalebane, 53 elite).

Current - Let the pet put in a growl and start up aimed shot. If it crits, you're going to be kiting. If it doesn't you'll be healing the pet soon because the scalebanes are vicious. Auto, multi, auto, heal pet, aimed, auto, auto... if its not dead or in your face, heal the damned pet again. Rough fight with the pet getting a battering. Almost easier just to ditch the damn pet and kite/strafe the whole fight.

PTR - Send the pet, and immediately crank up the aimed shot. As soon as it flies, hit arcane, auto, multi, auto, arcane... oh dead. Pet is at 90% or more health, and a chain of crits won't pull aggro. Easy mode for the win.

There's going to be more mana used in a raid. Hunters will have to get used to using more consumables. I expect that's intentional. Blizzard loves forcing all raid participants to use many consumables. Oh yeah... new cheap good arrows - 16s (minus discount) per 200, 22 DPS wicked arrows, level 55, available from your local general supplier.

[Merusk]

I was about to ask if you'd found the new arrows.  :-D

I don't even bother with Multishot when killing mobs unless there's a group.   It's just too damned mana-intensive and the damage isn't that far above arcane shot anymore.  345 mana for Multi vs 195 for Arcane.   Maybe if I had 8/8 GS.. I should copy to PTR instead of Beta to check. I used all my beta copies   

Hell, even Aimed Shot isn't proving to be worth it for grinding, so I question how useful it will be as a raiding opener.  Hunters are VERY different now.  Checked out your melee stats with all the +AP you've got now?   As Marksman there's a marked difference, but you're pretty close on RAP and MAP as either of the other specs. Hunters (somewhat) able to melee without gimping their ranged damage horribly? I smell PvP whines coming.

(Improved Hunters Mark is also ++ <3 for your new uber pet.)

[Righ]

Aimed is still a nice opener, especially now the pet can hold the aggro on an aimed crit. Multi benefits from increased damage and crit if you pick the talents up, and is on a different timer than aimed or arcane, so if you want to kill something quick and are happy to drink afterwards, go for it. But yeah, for grinding and farming, its going to mostly be auto shot interspersed with arcane.

I saw the improved MAP - coupled with the reduction in agility value to RAP, we're back to two-handed weapons. Warriors & paladins beware, that's hunter loot!

[Merusk]

I dunno, I'm just not sold on using multi all that much at all, unless you need that "die now" oomph.   It costs 80% more mana than a single arcane shot and even down at 1164 RAP with a Rhok, it's barely hitting as hard as arcane.

Aimed I haven't been getting decent crits on, I suppose.  It's hitting for about 7-800 each time it doesn't crit (26% crit chance.) and at 300 mana with shitty spirit, int and no MP/5 on the 'old mechanics' equipent, thats a valuable chunk of my pool.

Spec I'm using now  Improved barrage would up my Multishot to a 41% crit chance so that'd probably help offset the mana cost, but that's 3 levels away, since I'd rather have the survivability on my pet for grinding.

Rawr 2-handers.  I had a hard time explaining that, yes, hunters should be allowed to spend DKP on that 86AP 2hder out of BWL a few weeks back. (After the main dps melee, of course)  "But there's no Agi on it!  How is it a hunter weapon?"  /sigh.




 
 

[Trouble]

Once again, the problem of introducing new mechanics before the expansion. With the new mp5 aspect you're getting, as well as gear being itemized to include more mana regen, hunters should be relatively fine on mana. But you can't get the new aspect until after 60, and aside from tier 3 gear mostly, you're not going to find any mp5 itemized gear until the expansion. I still don't get the rush to push this out well in front of the expansion. Maybe it'll be buggy enough that they'll have to push it to early january and I won't have to bitch anymore.

[Morat20]

Once again, the problem of introducing new mechanics before the expansion. With the new mp5 aspect you're getting, as well as gear being itemized to include more mana regen, hunters should be relatively fine on mana. But you can't get the new aspect until after 60, and aside from tier 3 gear mostly, you're not going to find any mp5 itemized gear until the expansion. I still don't get the rush to push this out well in front of the expansion. Maybe it'll be buggy enough that they'll have to push it to early january and I won't have to bitch anymore.

I don't think the new aspect kicks in until 67, and as I noted -- all the mana/5 gear is post-60. Unless we start snagging shaman gear, which looks a heck of a lot better under the new hunter schema.

I haven't been following the latest changes to hunter -- figure I'd find out sooner or later through experience -- but last I checked the pet changes still didn't scale properly after they massively nerfed the pets a few weeks ago. Have they buffed pets back up then? Because it went from "my pet can tank dire maul" back to "My pet can't hold aggro after an aimed/auto crit" without intimidate.

[Merusk]

I'm pretty sure there was a bug with growl or pet aggro somewhere for those "My pet can't hold aggro" problems.

I wasn't able to keep a mob of ANY level on my pet without letting it chew 25% of the mob's health on its own.  Once I had aggro I couldn't feign it off to my pet.  As soon as I stood back up (even after waiting a few secs)  the mobs were right back on me.  Then they patched the beta realm this week and I was aimed/ arcane/ auto shotting and didn't get the mob on me more than a few times, and I was able to feign them off of me again.

Pets themselves have been buffed up so as to be better, but not to the "hey I've got a pocket warrior, we don't need a tank class" level most of the vocal hunters seem to want them at.

 All the bitching a few weeks ago was because people were using BC mobs that haddn't been adjusted.  If you were using an 'old world' mob you were simply gimping yourself because the BC mobs were so far above in terms of DPS/ AC and Health it was ridiculous.  When they fixed that obvious oversight people felt nerfed.  I didn't get in until after all that, and I do notice a lot more survivability and damage out of my pet in BC vs live, but not to a point I feel like a two-person solo group.

[Morat20]

I'm more worried about raid surviveability for BM specced hunters. My pet should be doing a significant chunk of my damage (10 to 20%) as a BM specced hunter, but on raids it generally drops in seconds from the godawful insane AoE stuff the bosses do. I hated using bears simply because I could use mage food to keep them happy because they were always dying...

[SurfD]

If this is true, consider me one VERY pissed off mage:

Blizzard has now decided to revoke our Mage licence as "masters of AoE" (guess they felt we needed another one to hang along the wall with our expired "you get to be the glass cannon in exchange for top damage" certificate).

One of my guildies in the betatest is also one of our top mages in the guild.  He recently discovered that they have done a massive,  and im talking FUCKING HUGE, nerf to "AoE" type spells.

Appearently, in their infinite wizdom, blizzard has decided that the generic reduction to +spell damage that all AoE spells get for simply being AoE wasnt enough.  They have now added in the effect that for every target beyond 10 (YES TEN.....TEN MOBS), your spell damage done by AoE spells drops signifigantly (we are talking tens or twenties of percents here).  While this may not seem like much, trust me when i say it is.

If you are confused about why this sucks, here is an example:

My guildie is currently level 70 in beta.
With all the fancy new ranks of his spells and stuff.
And about 6k or so HP unbuffed.
And probably around 700 or so +spelldamage. 

He told us over vent today that he nearly died while trying to AoE one of those packs random critters that ambush you when you go through certain gates in Stratholm  You know the ones, where you get swarmed by rats or grubs or beetles and the gates close on you till they are dead.

The ones a level 60 mage in blues can normally kill with a blastwave and a few bursts of Arcane Explosion.

THEY NEARLY KILLED A LEVEL 70 MAGE IN NAXX GEAR.

His arcane explosions were doing something in the range of 50 to 60 damage per hit.

Now, consider that, and try to imagine doing the Supression Room in BWL. Or the Swarm Tunnel on the way to Fenkriss in AQ 40. Or he Packs of Imps leading to Magmadar, or the Skeleton Pit in ZG, or hell, even an accidental Leeroy Jenkins pull in UBRS.  Or any number of other incounters where you need to AoE down a swarm of mobs.

I mean, holy fuck Blizzard.  Do you really have THAT much of a hardon for makeing sure no one ever wants to go back to old instances?  Were mages aoeing swarms of critters REALLY that broken? (never mind that the only really broken AoE encounter I ever saw, the one where the mage kills 90+ mobs at once during the Naxx opening event, was totally due to blizzards stupidity in placing huge swarms of mele only mobs in the same area)

[Merusk]

Yes, it's true.  It's an overreaction to mages who were AOE farming and making vids of it then 'lolzing'.  Hopefuly they'll see the error of this mechanic change, but I dobut it.

 Hey, on the 'plus side' I was seeing there's no reduction to +dmg gear on AOEs so long as you're below 10 mobs.  >.<

[SurfD]

Yeah, it will be amusing, im sure, to start aoeing on a pack of 10 mobs, and have a sudden big drop in one of your AoE pulses because one of those level 1 rats or bugs briefly respawned in your pack of 10 :P

[Jobu]

It also only applies to instant AoEs. Blizzard and Flamestrike damage as normal... or so the mage forums say if you squint past all the drama.

[Righ]

our expired "you get to be the glass cannon in exchange for top damage" certificate

Are mages no longer top damage dealers?

[SurfD]

our expired "you get to be the glass cannon in exchange for top damage" certificate

Are mages no longer top damage dealers?

As things stand currently? no.

A well geared fury Warrior (naxx gear) will mop the floor with a similarly geared Mage on damage meters.
Rogues are the same way.
Warlocks can also do better then we can. on most single target fights.

Most mages who are on the top of the damage meters are usually the ones who catch and hold the lucky rolling ignites for big damage stacks, or the ones inflating their DPS on AoE trash. 

The longer the fight goes, the farther we fall behind.

Of course, word has it that mages are now king of the hill in single target DPS in beta, but that held true in the origional game untill uber itemizations started being hit (mages were king on the way up to 60 and in early 60 instances, but after BWL level mele gear arrived, we got smacked in the face)

[Righ]

I guess most of our mages are great with them rolling ignites then. Only on certain single bosses do the top warriors and rogues do close to similar damage. And that's going the way of the dodo in the patch with the incoming nerf to weapon skill vs glancing.

Here are the classes I've heard whining about the patch/beta changes - mage, hunter, rogue, warrior, druid, warlock, priest, shaman, paladin. I suppose we're all fucked, and bottom of the tree,

[SurfD]

I was about ready to believe you, but then I noticed you included warlocks in your post.

You have actually heard warlocks bitching about upcoming expantion changes?  WTF, have these people no shame?  Warlocks got so much love all around in the expantion as it stands that they should be in a perpetual state of dripping extascy.

[Zetor]

Yeah, some locks have severe "grass is greener" syndrome. Felguard locks are complaining that the felguard is banishable / CC-able, destro locks are whining that dragon's breath is better than shadowfury and affliction locks are whining that they die too fast to melee. There's also plenty of crying about other classes, especially Cloak of Shadows (which does screw locks rather hard, but there are ways around it -- as an alliance lock, I've had to deal with WOTF forever, which is almost as bad as CloS) and Ice Lance (omg mages might actually have a chance now, nerf!!11).

IMO most of the whiners on the 'lock forums (and other class forums... hell, I'd say most of the WOW forums) need to take a cup of STFU. As an affliction lock who's been playing since closed beta, I couldn't be happier with the changes (well ok, there ARE some useless talents still, but which class doesn't have any of those?)


-- Z.

[Simond]

Of course, word has it that mages are now king of the hill in single target DPS in beta, but that held true in the origional game untill uber itemizations started being hit (mages were king on the way up to 60 and in early 60 instances, but after BWL level mele gear arrived, we got smacked in the face)

Blizzard has a plan - most +dmg (or +dmg/heal) stats in TBC is going to go on caster weapons, so when a mage dagger (or whatever) drops, it'll be just as big an upgrade for them as melee weapons are for fury warriors, instead of casters having to piecemeal upgrade armour for spell damage.

Whether it works or not is a different matter, but at least they're trying something

[lamaros]

Here are the classes I've heard whining about the patch/beta changes - mage, hunter, rogue, warrior, druid, warlock, priest, shaman, paladin. I suppose we're all fucked, and bottom of the tree,

Mages have and always will be the kings of QQ though.

This AOE thing is not that big a deal.

[Merusk]

Don't worry too much about Fury warriors being 'king of the hill' much longer, even with uber itemization.  They're normalizing rage generation so uber-geared warriors will no longer have more rage than they know what to do with.   

I'm worried about this hurting other folks because we'll have to hold back now that warriors won't be able to spam aggro-generating attacks at will.

[caladein]

I'm worried about this hurting other folks because we'll have to hold back now that warriors won't be able to spam aggro-generating attacks at will.

If I remember right, it's only Rage done by attacks that's being normalized. On top of that, faster weapons (since they do less damage) aren't getting hurt as badly as big two-handers.

Tanks don't have much to worry about. Arms warriors? Yeah.

[Merusk]

Well that's good news.  I hadden't heard much about it other than what I learned BSing with one of our Tanks in vent a few days ago.

[Paelos]

Yeah prot warriors are still fine. As long as you're pounding shield slam whenever it's up, you're fine due to the over 1k threat it generates at once. That and HS's every so often keep you above anybody.

[Xanthippe]

Blizzard loves forcing all raid participants to use many consumables. Oh yeah... new cheap good arrows - 16s (minus discount) per 200, 22 DPS wicked arrows, level 55, available from your local general supplier.

It's about time.  But there goes my thorium arrow/bullet business (thorium ammo for 60s/stack, which is ok, but I'm not getting rich since I'm buying mats off the AH) - unless Blizzard put in something else for crafters.  Do thorium bullets get a boost? 

We're still talking about the next patch, right?  Not TBC expac?

[Morat20]

Blizzard loves forcing all raid participants to use many consumables. Oh yeah... new cheap good arrows - 16s (minus discount) per 200, 22 DPS wicked arrows, level 55, available from your local general supplier.

It's about time.  But there goes my thorium arrow/bullet business (thorium ammo for 60s/stack, which is ok, but I'm not getting rich since I'm buying mats off the AH) - unless Blizzard put in something else for crafters.  Do thorium bullets get a boost? 

We're still talking about the next patch, right?  Not TBC expac?

Good -- I've been going broke buying ice-threaded bullets for MC raids.. Figured it was the least I could do, what with the consumable costs of the tanks and such.

[Merusk]

We're still talking about the next patch, right?  Not TBC expac?

Yes, next patch.  With the changes to Hunter mechanics going in they had to patch-in all the related stuff.  All ranged weapons will see a large boost in their listed DPS as well.

[Xanthippe]

This isn't good for my stockpile of thorium bars and dense blasting powder though.

Wonder why they don't just up the dps on those so that crafted is still better than storebought?

[Righ]

Sell the dense blasting powder short. The thorium will more than make up for the loss. Mail it to a bank alt, or float it around the mail system for a couple of months. Ore and bars will both be in heavy demand come the expansion, and with the super-inflation on cash above level 60, there's going to be a lot of money floating around.