Double whammy for priests inc.

[Phred]

Posted on WoW forums: Coming so recently after the decursive nerf it's like they don't want as many people playing healers.

Change to Coefficient Bonuses on Spells | 10/24/2006 02:01:20 AM UTC
In the Burning Crusade, we’ve decided to make a fundamental change to the way spells calculate the bonus they receive from +healing and +spell damage effects and items. This is because we have seen a growing trend in using “downranking” and large amounts of +healing items, which we feel negatively impacts game balance. Downranking involves high-level players using lower level spell ranks and +healing gear to conserve mana, but maintain a high rate of healing done. Through this method, it has become possible in the live game for healing characters to heal large amounts of damage indefinitely without running out of mana. To maintain progression of use through spell ranks, we are changing how lower ranked spells relate to characters of higher level.

Spells will now receive a smaller bonus from +healing and +spell damage based on a comparison of the level at which the spell was learned and the caster’s current level. Take the Priest spell Heal 2 as an example:

The spell is learned at level 22, and the base points for healing on the spell keep increasing until level 27. So, level 27 is considered the spell’s max level in our calculation.

This system gives an additional 6 levels of slack before applying any penalty to casting Heal 2; so, players up to level 33 can cast it with no penalty.

In this example, we will use level 34 (one level past the cast level of the spell) as a starting point.

The bonus from +healing is multiplied by this ratio:

((spell level)+6)/(player level)

That means the level 34 player only gets 97% of the normal bonus from +healing items when casting Heal 2. A level 60 player would only get 55% of the bonus, while a level 70 would get 47%.

The exact same system will also apply to damage spells. However, as healing classes tend to use downranking more often than others, healers are likely to see more effect from this change than other classes. As a general rule, players will be able to use the top 2 or 3 ranks of each spell before receiving any penalty. All of the existing ratios for the +healing and +spell damage bonuses on spells are also still in effect; so spells with a short casting time will continue to receive a smaller bonus than spells with a longer casting time. Spells learned below level 20 will still receive substantially smaller bonuses.

[caladein]

This is pretty similar to how it's always been, with Spells learned before 20 get their +Dmg/Healing proportional to how early the spell is learned.

(Spell Level)/20 * (Cast Time)/3.5 * Raw +Dmg/Healing = Effective +Dmg/Healing, if (Spell Level) < 20 is how it works now.

Now they're just expanding it to include all spell levels (plus some slack space and removing the arbitrary sub-20 penality). Does it change how healers will be focusing on their gear? Yes, very much so, but after looking at some of the item screenshots, I can only hope the itemization will be there for when the expansion comes out. With the level of gear coming out of Outland compared to what a lot of people have, there's no point in crunching numbers right now. Healers in pre-Naxx guilds will be at the mercy of the itemization for a good while.

Still, the biggest reason for downranking was that with obscene +Healing, a full rank heal would be majority overheal in most situations. On top of that you have 12-15 Healers all healing a finite number of people actually taking damage and overheal became more of a factor in endurance then Healing Per Mana.

Probably on the whole a good change, a lot in line with the Crit/Weapon Skill changes. They want us using our newest, shiniest spells and gear, especially with so many abilities starting at 60 that would hardly ever be used because of atrocious efficiencies.

[Trippy]

It always amuses me when game designers don't understand their own game. Reminds me of the "mosscovered twig" from EQ.

[Zane0]

I think I can spam heal rank 2 (1400) for 6 minutes straight without consumables?  Good paladins can literally substain acceptable hps for an almost infinite amount of time.  This is a necessary change in the long term, but it is also an inevitable nerf to +healing.

Fine for me though.  I always preferred Mp5 due to its being "guaranteed".

[jpark]

Good change.

I have been appalled at the lack of skill of many raiding healers - but amazed they somehow get by.  The overrelianceon + healing gear is part of the problem - this exploit - removed a lot of thinking on heals - since healers rarely seem to be out of mana these days on raids.

Rather than time landing a big heal - most healers these days just spam endless low rank quick cast heals - which requires no timing whatsoever.

Yes - I used to be a 60 priest - undead :)

[Phred]

Good change.

I have been appalled at the lack of skill of many raiding healers - but amazed they somehow get by.  The overrelianceon + healing gear is part of the problem - this exploit - removed a lot of thinking on heals - since healers rarely seem to be out of mana these days on raids.

Rather than time landing a big heal - most healers these days just spam endless low rank quick cast heals - which requires no timing whatsoever.

Yes - I used to be a 60 priest - undead :)

With a very poor understanding of how crits/crushing blows work it seems

[jpark]

Good change.

I have been appalled at the lack of skill of many raiding healers - but amazed they somehow get by.  The overrelianceon + healing gear is part of the problem - this exploit - removed a lot of thinking on heals - since healers rarely seem to be out of mana these days on raids.

Rather than time landing a big heal - most healers these days just spam endless low rank quick cast heals - which requires no timing whatsoever.

Yes - I used to be a 60 priest - undead :)

With a very poor understanding of how crits/crushing blows work it seems

You think so?  With 80 FR and 2 epics to my name I was one of the top healers in our guild by almost any measure you can think of.  And ya - about 1.5 years ago that guild I healed for was the top horde raiding guild on our server - first to clear MC - first to down Ony.

Begin your diatribe.  Let's see who understands healing strategies better.

[Phred]

Things have changed a lot since MC.

[jpark]

Things have changed a lot since MC.

Please expand - you made a bold statement - back it up asshole.

[Zetor]

To be fair, Patchwerk and Loatheb are 'big heal exclusive' boss fights, but those are the exception, not the norm.

I don't think it's possible to do Twin Emps by mostly using gheals f'rex...


-- Z.

[jpark]

I have not done twin emps - but as a tank being healed in BWL - and then subsequentlyl being healed by my bud who heals the same way I used to - the strategies that served me well in MC and Ony -  certainly work well in BWL.  My bud's healing standing was also one of the best in guild - and one of the poorest equipped (it was a new character).

There's more to casting than the spell you use - or even the timing - but also "how" you cast.

Still waiting for your erudite commentary Phred 

[Merusk]

Yeah this will make a lot more folks fail at everything while at the same time they're trying to get folks more involved.  Should be interesting.


Oh - the two new racials were patched, as well. 

Consume Magic (BE)
Instant
2 min cooldown
Dispels one beneficial Magic effect from the caster and gives them 62 to 78 mana.

Symbol of Hope (DR)
15 Mana
40 yd range
Instant cast
2 min cooldown
Greatly increases the morale of party members, giving them ${33*3} mana over 15 sec.

In addition, BE's get Touch of Weakness (the Undead spell) and Draeni get .... Fear Ward.

Wtf?  4 da horde?


As to the healing peen-waving.  Yes, all I've ever heard from high-end priests is "Greater Heal spamming doesn't work because of crits."   Having given the fuck up on priests in large-groups I have no experience of my own to back this up.

  I do know that I did just fine spamming G. Heal and timing my heals, but my overhealing would often suck because I'd get 'snipe healed' more often in the last second to half-second of casting. (Fuckers)  Switching to flash heal on trash and g. heal on bossesI nearly halved my healing meter overhealing.

  This doesn't mean you use G. heal exclusively.. but you rely on druids and pallys to 'oh shit' heal (used to be called infill) when something DOES get a crit and you're stuck in the middle of a cast time.  ( Or, of course, that you flash heal if you're not in the middle of casting a bigger heal, so someone else's g. heal can land.)

[lamaros]

Goodchange.

[jpark]

  Yes, all I've ever heard from high-end priests is "Greater Heal spamming doesn't work because of crits."   Having given the fuck up on priests in large-groups I have no experience of my own to back this up.

Going back to my first point on this - this is because most healers don't know how to cast.  Greater heals are perfect for spike damage - that is exactly what shot me through the healing ranks in MC and Ony (or my friend in BWL) - but you cannot just enact the spell by the time you see spike damage since by then it is too late (nor can you just spam it - this involves a version of healer stance dancing to address both concerns).

Interesting comment you make about such changes making the class more challenging and potentially reducing participation.  For some players this will happen - this is what I refer to as the "ghetto healers" guys who think their class could be botted - and never developed any genuine interest or skill in the class.  For those committed to being a priest - no question this will add for more variety in play - and make it more fun.  Of course, if the ghetto healers outnumber commmitted players too much - you may be right.

I think this change may draw new players to the priest class.  Younger players exploring classes to play are  left with the impression that all priests do is spam the same heal over and over again - which is exactly the situation with +healing gear prior to the changes noted in this thread.

It's a good day to be a priest.

[bhodi]

I don't have a TON of experience being a priest, as it's an alt class for me, but I have done a few raids with her; I end up having 4 heals: max rank flash, max rank greater, rank 4 heal, and rank 2 heal. And renew, max rank, of course.

Healing for me pretty much comes down to spamming rank 2 on MT if there are a lot healing him, otherwise spamming rank 4 and keeping renew up. Flash is used on squishies and gheal is used on plate classes for the spike damage. That's pretty much it, and blizzard has said they want you to be able to downrank one or two levels with minimal penalty and that's it. I personally don't have a problem with that.

I do wish priests and an instacast heal, because canceling a big heal, waiting for global cooldown, and flash heal often take too long and the person dies. I know druids and paladinsa are supposed to be the life savers, but it would be nice to have *something*. Also, prayer of healing outside yorur group, which I think they are addressing with the level holy 41 ability, assuming it gets fixed.

Don't forget that they changed the 10% to healing talent to include gear; this is a huge change and should take the sting out of the downranking nerf.

I am worried though that while it's a good change overall it will push some people away from a class that is already shorthanded. I guess we'll see where that goes.

[Dren]

This seems reasonable to me.  I never did understand why they let your characters keep the lower level spells when you got new ones.  They really did set themselves up for this problem.  Plus, they are now having to do more complicated systems to keep the lower levels around.  

If they didn't want there to be any advantage to using the lower level spells, why even have them?  I suppose they are nice when running your newb friend through lower level instances?

It would have been nice if they did healing like UO.  Cast the spell first, then target within 30 seconds or lose it.  You could hold a heal in queue and use it on your target when they got a crit.  Their programming probably doesn't allow for an easy implementation of this though.  It would certainly change the priests role/methods.

It could have served to be a distinguishing factor between themselves and the other healing classes too.  The others would be the current (harder to time) healing, while priests would get more pinpointed and accurate healing.

[Merusk]

Interesting comment you make about such changes making the class more challenging and potentially reducing participation.  For some players this will happen - this is what I refer to as the "ghetto healers" guys who think their class could be botted - and never developed any genuine interest or skill in the class.  For those committed to being a priest - no question this will add for more variety in play - and make it more fun.  Of course, if the ghetto healers outnumber commmitted players too much - you may be right.

I think this change may draw new players to the priest class.  Younger players exploring classes to play are  left with the impression that all priests do is spam the same heal over and over again - which is exactly the situation with +healing gear prior to the changes noted in this thread.

It's a good day to be a priest.

I just reread my quote. I meant I don't much experience beyond MC.  I've healed Rag fights, I've been forced to bring the (now shadow-specced) priest to BWL because a healer bailed on us, but that's it. 

So you're speaking of proactive rather than reactive healing.  Not a surprise, because you're an MMO vet. Those of us who played healers in EQ and earlier games are used to this, and like I mentioned I used to do myself.  (Hell I never understood people bitching about a 4 second heal when I was timing 10-second heals just fine in EQ.)

However, I think you'll find most healers out there, like most WOW players are newbs to the genre.  As a result they have a much more reactive mindset.  It's how you heal in almost all single player games. "Oh health is low, pop a pot/ switch to the healer and heal."  So the mindset they're coming from is  "Oh, so and so took damage, time to stop dispelling/ casting dots/ whatever and cast a heal."

 Doing things this way means, yes, you're going to miss that 4 second cast because by the time you switch targets and smack the heal button, they've gotten smished.  Nothing wrong with this approach, IMO, and it makes healers a much more friendly class.

  It seems, however, that Blizzard disagrees and wants healers to be more proactive in playstyle.  This is why I think most folks will abandon their healers.  The number of folks who want to exclusivly heal are far fewer than those who want to heal /and/ do damage.  (Which was the largest bitch of EQ clerics, "I can't do any damage!!1")    Even after that the number of folks who'll understand "oh I need to start healing THIS way instead.." is fewer than the number who'll simply roll an alt.

I think this limits priests a bit more, it doens't expand them.  In a group all your mana will need to be reserved for healing, now, or waiting on that next g. heal you need to spam.  Casting that SW:P or smite will get you bitchslapped because of the number of crappy healers out there who'll wind-up blowing their wad spamming flash heal on folks at 70% (wasting most of the healing from their gear.)

   Then again, my cynicism is probably colored by the number of folks bitching at me about my pet/ multishot/ stings because of the number of crappy hunters out there in the first place.

[bhodi]

something that I forgot to mention that completely changes the face of healing come TBC:

All HoT spells will stack instead of overwrite. That means your MT (and others that take large, consistant damage) will have their damage mitigated by the 3 renews and 3 rejuvs on them. He'll heal back up to full every 3 seconds.

That means you won't *need* to spam heals or downrank; you simply divvy off who is assigned to keep a HoT up, and save your casting for those who take large spike damage. This also theoretically means that spirit now becomes much more important than mp/5, since you'll spend much longer periods of time outside the 5 second window.

[jpark]

Thanks for that update Bhodi.  Looking for us much info on the expansion as I can find.

Merusk you may be right about the player population.  If it turns out that the number of ghetto healers vastly outstripps players who are serious about the class that will be a problem.

If that happened - I would make my priest my main again and abuse the power  :-D

There is also a tank shortage too - interesting dynamics there - at the high end of the game.  I play a tank (protection) - my bud a priest - and we chuckle at the LFG channel that is screaming for one of those two classes.

The best change for the priest to address its appeal - without creating the heal bot that Phred appears to enjoy - is what they did with Holy Nova:  2 for one.  You heal and do damage.  Mana inefficient in the extreme if you try to use it for a single purpose - but perfect when you need both and add to that it is threatless - it is very nice.

I had a fucking blast with my priest in WSG with Holy Nova - there is not a better spell in the whole game when both sides clash in narrow confines.  In the expansion I understand we will see another threatless heal related ability - but it escapes me at the moment.

[Trouble]

My jury is still out on this change, but once again it's going to be how they design encounters. Fact is that there are many encounters possibly in BWL and definitely beyond BWL that are designed with downranking in mind. Using greater heal 2-4 to heal on Twin Emps...

There are a number of subtle and not so subtle dynamics that are changed by nerfing downranking that you need to keep in mind. First off, downranking is more efficient. With +1000 healing you can pretty much double your efficiency. Therefore it makes the +healing stat an efficiency modifier, not really a healing increase per se. When you downrank, a larger portion of the heal is composed of your +healing bonus and less of the innate amount of healing the spell does. Therefore as you downrank, you get higher heals per mana. Heal rank 2 is almost twice as efficient as Gheal 5 at +1000 healing.

On top of the innate increase of efficiency from downranking, +healing allows you to downrank more to hit the 1000-1300 heal sweet spot that allows you to be effective while having a low amount of overhealing. That amount on tank healing is usually ideal because you're usually healing tanks in a team of 4-6 people. It allows higher "resolution" on heals. Instead of large chunks landing which causes more overheal, lots of smaller chunks are landing quicker and more cheaply.

As a continuation of the resolution issue, being required to use larger heals means that either the tank will be at an average lower health or you will have a larger overheal percent. Say a tank has 9000 health. If you're healing for 1000, you can land a heal when he's at 8000 health for 0% overheal. If you're using a top rank heal for 3000, the tank has to drop down to 6000 health for you to avoid overhealing. Therefore, as an extention to all this, lots of smaller heals that are allowed to land when the tank is at higher health is better spike damage prevention. If you're always required to let the tank drop a much larger portion of his health to not waste your mana healing him, you will be less able to deal with the damage spikes that hit, because the tank will always be at a lower average health level.

The Twin Emperors fight is an "ideal" for downranking. The fight lasts for 15 minutes so even decently geared people have to care about mana efficiency. On top of that, the tanks take a lot of spike damage. The result of this is that using Blizzard's new level of "acceptable" heal would greatly increase the difficulty of this fight. It would require using full consumables every run, much like Patchwerk does now, despite gear having advanced well beyond the encounter's level. You would also have many more wipes due to "accidents" with the tank dying to spike damage.

Simplified, the fight is basically two tanks with two equal heal teams of about 5-6 healers. It has a maximum duration of 15 minutes, and it usually lasts at least 13 minutes for my guild. Damage on the tanks can spike up to individual 6k hits followed by 2k hits, and an occasional flurry of 3-4 hits for 2-3k each in under two seconds (the dreaded exploding bug + blizzard + shadowbolt combo + maybe an arcane explosion dumb tank move). My rank 2 heal hits for 1300 and my Gheal 3 hits for about 2400 (I forget exactly, I don't use it often). You can assume similar numbers for the other healers, though of course there is variation. Our tanks have about 9000 health for this fight. If you look at the max damage spikes, which will usually happen at least once per fight, it requires that we keep the tank at very high health at almost all times. Luckily there is recover time when those spikes do happen, because the skill that causes that damage (unbalancing strike, exploding bug, shadowbolt, uppercut, etc) all have long enough cooldowns to give us time to top the tank off. That said, I can't assume 6500 health (what I would need to not overheal with a GHeal 3) as my baseline health. 7500 is the absolute minimum. That means that if I was forced to use Gheal 3, I'd probably hit around 50% overheal on average, whereas now I'm at 15-20% overheal. Not only that, but I'm getting those heals at a higher mana per heal rate. It'd be a stretch to last the full 13-15 minutes, despite me having top notch gear. I'm not sure we could do it without a lot of good luck.

Whereas it's pretty much a requirement on Twin Emps that you downrank, on less healing intensive fights it gives you more breathing room. I suppose by removing it you could up the challenge quite a bit on other fights that aren't quite so taxing. On the other hand, being a healer is tiring work. The amount of work DPSers have to put in isn't in the same galaxy and the only other people that have as much work to do are main tanks. Even as it is I find myself getting worn out progressing through Naxxramas, though I hope I'm not heading toward the fabled "healer burnout". The term exists for a reason. Perhaps making the healing on encounters more taxing isn't the right direction Blizzard should be heading for, but I haven't seen Blizzard's master plan so maybe there's other components being added to the mix that I'm not aware of.

[jpark]

There are a number of subtle and not so subtle dynamics that are changed by nerfing downranking that you need to keep in mind...

On top of the innate increase of efficiency from downranking, +healing allows you to downrank more to hit the 1000-1300 heal sweet spot that allows you to be effective while having a low amount of overhealing...

As a continuation of the resolution issue, being required to use larger heals means that either the tank will be at an average lower health or you will have a larger overheal percent...

Agreed on all points (I cannot comment on Twin Emps).  But that does not change anything by way of conclusions for me.  The problems you point out with greater heals are the challenge any priest has to learn to deal with (unless the become dependent on quick casts and + healing gear) - and the costs of failure are high.  You have to anticipate, know how to gear for it and know how to interrupt your casts.

This is why - imo - that it is likely the case the priest is the least gear dependent and possibly the hardest class of any to play.

[Zetor]

Also the most twitchy. It's why I don't plan on playing my priest much after the expansion, playing with a constant 500+ ping makes healing an annoying, frustrating chore. It's a pity, because I really enjoy strategizing heals myself, dodging the 5-second rule and not relying on uber +heal downranking or auto-heal mods, even decursive (in a 5-man environment anyway).


-- Z.

[lamaros]

I do wish priests and an instacast heal, because canceling a big heal, waiting for global cooldown, and flash heal often take too long and the person dies. I know druids and paladinsa are supposed to be the life savers, but it would be nice to have *something*.

Isn't that what Shield is meant to be... ?

I much prefer playing as a Proactive Priest, and they are far far better, so encouraging more people to 'l2heal' is a good thing. Even if it means some people stop playing them.

[Typhon]

so encouraging more people to 'l2heal' is a good thing. Even if it means some people stop playing them.

I just completely disagree.  For me, LFG is one of the most frustrating parts of MMO games.  Taking a role that is chronically the least played while at the same time typically the most needed and making it tougher so the minority of people who do it well and enjoying doing it can have an epeen waving moment while at the same time driving out those folks who do it poorly, but do it because they hate LFG more then playing a class they dislike, makes no sense. (holy crap that was a big sentence)

I honestly was hoping that WoW would be more like Diablo - no healing classes (not that I wanted a potion-clickfest, just that I didn't want groups dependent on healers).

How does such a game work?  Example - For awhile I played the sole defender (storm defender in city of heroes) with my bros/group of friends.  I had taken no healing powers.  Not only was it possible, but it was actually a hell of alot of fun because it required moving/controlling/pushing mobs (i.e. tactics) rather then the "Tank stands in one spot and taunts.  The healer heals. Everyone else watches patiently and pushes a damage button. Deviate from this one iota and we all die."

Honestly I think healers ruin these games by making them much, much less dynamic and much, much more repetitious.

[jpark]

Typhoon I think we just get spoiled.  In EQ healing was such a huge issue - that if you could not get a group - you just sat there.  In WoW variouis types of healers can work - and in the end - you can solo stuff.

I think if you got what you wanted you would find a game too easy - trivial.  At that point - I would just pick up a single player RPG.

[Calantus]

Fights have been made that essentially require downranking at the gear level they are targetted. It's not so much lazy ass healers exploiting a broken mechanic, it's healers being forced to use a broken mechanic because Blizzard builds encounters around it and slaps so much otherwise marginally useful (in the present game) +heal on everything you have to do something with it.

Now personally on emps I spend some time channeling max rank gheals when I need to regen, but there has to be some priests downranking at the same time for that to work out. If one of my GHeals lands I either cause overheal or the tank was within range of just randomly dying. That's not where you want your tank to be.

Frankly I don't see it as fucking over priests, just changing a broken mechanic at a time when they can rebalance around it, but there IS a reason people abuse it currently and it's not because of lack of skill. Changes like higher HP on players, stacking HoTs, and all new encounters mean this change can go through without doing much damage. If it was introduced now the difficulty of some encounters would go through the roof. I also get the impression they are gearing raids so less constant healing is required in raids, so having less healers around and/or more healers go hybrid might be an intended effect anyway. I like this change, I always preferred winding up heals, trying to land them without overheal as much as possible. It's more fun trying to land a big heal than essentially deciding whether to heal or regen.

[lamaros]

so encouraging more people to 'l2heal' is a good thing. Even if it means some people stop playing them.

I just completely disagree.  For me, LFG is one of the most frustrating parts of MMO games.  Taking a role that is chronically the least played while at the same time typically the most needed and making it tougher so the minority of people who do it well and enjoying doing it can have an epeen waving moment while at the same time driving out those folks who do it poorly, but do it because they hate LFG more then playing a class they dislike, makes no sense. (holy crap that was a big sentence)

I honestly was hoping that WoW would be more like Diablo - no healing classes (not that I wanted a potion-clickfest, just that I didn't want groups dependent on healers).

How does such a game work?  Example - For awhile I played the sole defender (storm defender in city of heroes) with my bros/group of friends.  I had taken no healing powers.  Not only was it possible, but it was actually a hell of alot of fun because it required moving/controlling/pushing mobs (i.e. tactics) rather then the "Tank stands in one spot and taunts.  The healer heals. Everyone else watches patiently and pushes a damage button. Deviate from this one iota and we all die."

Honestly I think healers ruin these games by making them much, much less dynamic and much, much more repetitious.

That's a whole other kettle of fish.

The fact is the healers currently are boring to play, or more accuratly, are not required to play with any skill to "do their job". This turn me of healing more than anything else. Perhaps the reason so many hate playing a Priest is because they play it like a robot and dont feel skilled doing it. And they have to play like a robot because it requires much much less effort. Maybe making the Healing class one where the skill is much more obvious will make MORE people want to play them.

Besides, it is MUCH MUCH harder to get a good Tank for an group than it is to find a competent healer.

Nearly any competent group of 5 random classes can complete the 5 mans currently in the game; except for specifc boss fights. When you do get a good tank and healer on those boss fights they become completely trivial.

I've been running scholo a bit recently (I want Gandlings ring) with a a few different group makeups, and I can say that there is nothing in the classes that force players to play a certain way anywhere NEAR as much as the instance design forces people to play certain ways. And even there there is some scope for variety.

The best normal group for scholo is pretty much War/Mage/Priest/Rogue/Shaman simply because: There are UD and Humaniods and Mage/Priest/Rogue CC takes care of this. There are areas where AOE helps. There are curses that need to be removed, there are mobs that are melee damage only, some that are spell damage only, there are bosses that hit hard enough and die slow enough that they need to be "tanked", having a backup healer works well for Gandling's teleport etc. Keep in mind we're not talking overgeared people here.

All the healing classes in the game, Priest the least extent, have other things they can do besides heal. They can all be played as Hybrids. The fact that they often aren't is because player mentality and instance/raid design wont let them. Even still, I play in shadowform a fair bit when the main (sometimes only) healer in Scholo, given the right groups.

Requiring more skill to heal may in fact be a boon, if it comes hand in hand with a move away from the "Holy Trinity" (Tank hard, dps and heal heavy) level design.

Anyway, I ramble.

[jpark]

It's not so much lazy ass healers exploiting a broken mechanic, it's healers being forced to use a broken mechanic because Blizzard builds encounters around it and slaps so much otherwise marginally useful (in the present game) +heal on everything you have to do something with it.

I don't buy this:  My Teir 2 priest buddy (another one - not the same as the one I refer to earlier in this thread) - BWL eqiupped priest has HALF the mana regeneration of my partly equipped Teir 1 Priest from MC.  Clearly - there are gear choices that can be made - of course with trade-offs. 

I do believe the + healing gear has lead to poor skill development among priests.  As much as I like to think I am brilliant - and my friends - the fact we are/have made a decisive showing as healers against guys Teir 2 equipped (when we have 2 Teir 1 epics to our name) can only be explained through lack of practise by these heavily equipped priests.  When you spam low rank, short cast heals - there is not too much pressure to learn how to anticipate damage.   Priest healing is pretty poor right now - imo - so what's causing it?

Currently, in the 2 raiding guilds I have been with - there is no healing strategy.  The only heal strategy is to over heal - and put as many healers on the MT as possible.  Overhealing is a viable strategy when you have mana to burn - which is exactly what + healing gear allowed people to do.  Now that is being nerfed - time for a lot of healers to wake-up to the real task their role requires of them.

To sum up:

The fact is the healers currently are boring to play [to some], or more accuratly, are not required to play with any skill to "do their job". This turn me of healing more than anything else. Perhaps the reason so many hate playing a Priest is because they play it like a robot and dont feel skilled doing it.

[bhodi]

Half the game's about itemization. All the classes are like that; Tier1 Priest set gears for flash heal and mana regen, tier2 gears for greater heal. Obviously they intended people to downrank previously, but they've decided they want to change the mechanic, so they are doing it at a time where they can balance off all the new encounters. All of the classes are getting changes, and these changes include the gear. I don't just mean the new socket system, and I'm not just talking about priests either; they are moving away from crit for rogues, changing agility into straight +attack power, shuffling around block/parry with the 'ratings' for tanks, "fixing" the shot cycle and tweaking the agility->crit for hunters.

They have a lot of changes in mind, and part of the process is designing the new gear around their intended advancement in addition to the new spells, talent tree revamps, and removing emergency monitor and decursive.  It took them a year and a half, but they finally learned. We're getting smaller instances, token redemption system for items, and more interesting areas to explore. They're fixing a bunch of the classes, hell, the druid and hunter forums are positively jubilant. That in itself should give an indication of how carefully they're listening to the playerbase while making changes to the game as a whole.

They aren't neglecting itemization, instead they are creating it specifically with the changes in mind. The jury's out on whether or not that direction will encourage more people to play priests. I can, however, say with confidence that itemization, talent trees, new abilities, and breaking some addons are all part of the same process -- to bring all of the classes more in line with Blizzard's Vision(tm).

[Calantus]

It's not so much lazy ass healers exploiting a broken mechanic, it's healers being forced to use a broken mechanic because Blizzard builds encounters around it and slaps so much otherwise marginally useful (in the present game) +heal on everything you have to do something with it.

I don't buy this:  My Teir 2 priest buddy (another one - not the same as the one I refer to earlier in this thread) - BWL eqiupped priest has HALF the mana regeneration of my partly equipped Teir 1 Priest from MC.  Clearly - there are gear choices that can be made - of course with trade-offs.

That there is the rub. As your gear progresses you see more and more +healing. Tier 2 for one has only 2 (I think) pieces with mana/5, and you have to specifically target offset pieces to get the regen you need. Most of the better rings are +heal without regen. Blizz just practically throws +healing down healer's throats, and while there are alternatives, there aren't enough to equip all the guild's priests. Most are just going to be drowning in +heal.

[caladein]

That there is the rub. As your gear progresses you see more and more +healing. Tier 2 for one has only 2 (I think) pieces with mana/5, and you have to specifically target offset pieces to get the regen you need. Most of the better rings are +heal without regen. Blizz just practically throws +healing down healer's throats, and while there are alternatives, there aren't enough to equip all the guild's priests. Most are just going to be drowning in +heal.

Part of me fears that won't change very much...

[Shavnir]

Im fairly certain a blue has posted that there would be mutiple sets for every class (since they will be using token systems for future raid instances), which implies the choice for healing or not is (partially) up to the priest.  Wether or not the encounters themselves pidgeonhole them into picking up the healing set is yet to be seen admittedly.

[jpark]

Calantus - I hear you.

But there is still choice.  I think folks forget that there is a strategy to different gear combinations and assume that ALL gear belongs to a singular scale in which Teir 2 is better than Teir 1 etc.

My priest wore very little Teir 1 stuff since he had a lot of dedicated mana regen gear for slots in which no mana regen existed for those slots in the armor sets.  He made the trade-off ...

[ajax34i]

I went for mana regen rather than +heal, only had about 300 +heal.  That meant a 5/3 Prophecy/Transcendence, and various +regen misc.  Didn't use lower ranks of spells, just the top ones, interrupting when neccessary.

The thing was, more often than not I wouldn't be wearing the mana regen stuff cause I had to don resist gear.  I'm not sure if the trend will continue.

[caladein]

The thing was, more often than not I wouldn't be wearing the mana regen stuff cause I had to don resist gear.  I'm not sure if the trend will continue.

From http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=35774926&postId=369604001&sid=1#25:

Another point is, are you going to be using that FR set much in the future? Resistance gear isn't going to be highly stressed in future dungeons, to my knowledge, so this can be seen as something to decrease the quantity of armor one is carrying.