FFXI new deal avail November 7th

[Hoax]

http://na.square-enix.com/ffxi/newsletter/16/index.html

Details:
Game + all (3) xpacks on one dvd
30 days free
30 days free for friend
$29.99

Comes out Nov 7th, so if anyone is really bored and wanted to see what FFXI was like, there's your chance.

[Engels]

Have they fixed their wonky billing scheme where if I rejoin with the same account I started with 2 years ago, I have to pay back-fees for 24 months of a 'suspended' account?

[Lum]

Is there any reason for a new player to buy any of the xpacks? I thought they were all high-level content.

[Margalis]

I didn't have to pay any back fees.

I just unsubbed again last night, but I hadn't actually played in about 5 months.

The first expansion pack that came packaged with the game in the US has some new classes and low level stuff, other 2 are mostly for higher-end players. They have new classes but hard to unlock.

[geldonyetich]

I'd be tempted, but there are two problems I need to resolve first:

1) FFXI, in proud EverQuest clone tradition, is a game where you spend half an hour finding a group in order to grind for hours to make levels.  Bottom line: Hardcore ; Not Casual Friendly.  I'm in College, no can do.

2) Since I've been unsubscribed for longer than three months (more like a year) there's a good chance that my previous character, with perhaps 200 hours of play in him, is now deleted.

That said, I've always felt that FFXI is the best EverQuest clone out there.  Aesthetically pleasing, well designed, and deep.  Vanguard has its work cut out for it wrestling the hardcore away from that game.  World of Warcraft is... something else entirely.  It doesn't cater to the hardcore, it creates them from the casual.

[Trippy]

Can you solo yet?

[Lantyssa]

If I could I would resubscribe in a heartbeat.

[geldonyetich]

I've heard that the latest expansion adds soloish areas.  However, I'm not sure what that involves or if it's really true.

[Yegolev]

Shit.  For a mere $15, I will ship anyone a hammer and directions to find your testicles.

[ahoythematey]

Shit.  For a mere $15, I will ship anyone a hammer and directions to find your testicles.

Last time I checked, that job was already taken by the Lineage devs at NC Soft.

[Morfiend]

Shit.  For a mere $15, I will ship anyone a hammer and directions to find your testicles.

Last time I checked, that job was already taken by the Lineage devs at NC Soft.

No no, they ship chainsaws.

[HRose]

This game doesn't need new "deals". It needs a new design team.

And the content in the expansion starts at level 20, I think. If you can convince a full party to do missions instead of the standard grind in the standard zones (some of which are in the exp packs).

[WindupAtheist]

[Numtini]

If I could I would resubscribe in a heartbeat.

I did the full talk to a rep on the phone and have my account information retrieved from backup (or tape or punch cards or whatever they use)

And you know, I think I lasted two days?

It should be a huge lesson to the Vanguard people. The era of The Vision is just over. I got in and realized I'd spent two hours just going from a dungeon, to buy/sell, and back to the same dungeon (I needed my Khazam key to continue) and I just logged out in disgust.

In a thousand ways FFXI is a fantastic game. EQ with all the suck, but a thousand things done right that EQ didn't get right. But after WOW, I just can't deal with the suck anymore. I just can't.

[Miasma]

If they ever made a no-grind/soloable FFXI server I would go and play that and make it my home for many years.  I even liked the gardening in that game.

Oh, and those damn ghoul heads had better be more plentiful too.

[damijin]

Shit.  For a mere $15, I will ship anyone a hammer and directions to find your testicles.

Last time I checked, that job was already taken by the Lineage devs at NC Soft.

No no, they ship chainsaws.

speaking of chainsaws, torture, and Lineage,

L2 is being re-released this month as "Lineage 2: Epic Collection" Not really worthy of it's own topic, because it's L2. BUT

I will say that L2 is a far more accessable game than it was in the past. Not WoW accessable, but it's far more soloable than it ever was. On the down side, it's a corrupted piece of shit. BUT, to it's credit, all expansions are free, and the next one is likely going to introduce a new race and change the direction of the games PvP toward "territorial wars".

I'm not going to advocate playing it because I think their botting problem is way out of control, but I will say that if you can look past other people and make your own fun in a game, L2 is a game with a lot of life left in it.

[Yegolev]

L2?  I'll stick with EVE.  Free expansions, new races recently (adding new ships in the next six months too), will be enhancing territorial warfare, and if you find a bot outside newbieland you can just pewpewpew.

[Nija]

FFXI insulted PC gamers everywhere they possibly could. Fuck JRPGS.

I wonder how many cd keys are required to install all that shit. I'm guessing at least 9. They probably buried the "login" button under 17 different drop down menus as well.

[caladein]

L2?  I'll stick with EVE.  Free expansions, new races recently (adding new ships in the next six months too), will be enhancing territorial warfare, and if you find a bot outside newbieland you can just pewpewpew.

Well, you can also pewpewpew a bot anywhere in L2 just that the botters are so entrenched in the game's culture that you really can't do anything.

If it's leveling bot, it's more then likely part of a full team that could mow just about anything down. If it's solo/duo farming for cash, once you kill the bot, the backup comes, and if the farmer backup is dealt with, then the uberguild that buys all the farmer's gold comes and steamrolls you, your friends, your castle, and steals your girlfriend while they're at it.

[Dren]

If they every made a no-grind/soloable FFXI server I would go and play that and make it my home for many years.  I even liked the gardening in that game.

Oh, and those damn ghoul heads had better be more plentiful too.

Agreed.  They'd have to make the travelling much faster too.  The first time doing it on foot, was acceptable.  After that, a chore tha wore me down to quitting.  Well, that and the tremendous amount of time spent sitting around waiting for a full group to sit and camp spawns.

Wow, it still amazes me how much gaming goodness was ruined by their grindfest nature.  So many great ideas in that game.  Such polish!  What a waste.

[Margalis]

Yeah, the game has so many great things going for it. Great atmosphere, great models for everything. I love the variety of enemies in one zone and how certain creatures are rare, spawn at night, etc. (More so than other games) It really has a great sense of wonder.

But the travel times, waiting for group and camping are all killer.

[Dren]

Yeah, the game has so many great things going for it. Great atmosphere, great models for everything. I love the variety of enemies in one zone and how certain creatures are rare, spawn at night, etc. (More so than other games) It really has a great sense of wonder.

But the travel times, waiting for group and camping are all killer.

Dang, I forgot about the night spawns.  I'm sad now.  Weather effects.  Towns shifting emphasis based on player PvE in the surrounding areas.

I still like their Auction House system more than any other.  Plus, that Bazaar system was useful and unique. 

Using furniture that you put in your room as buffs for your character was inspired too.  And of course, the job system.

Somebody could seriously copy all of that stuff and release a casual level game and be very succesful.  I'd certainly buy and play.

*Stares at Lum*

[Cheddar]

I really enjoyed L2, but I had no one to play with, so my love died.

[Falconeer]

I really enjoyed L2, but I had no one to play with, so my love died.

I am playing it since early september with moody interest. It's pleasant at times and PvP really makes your heartbeat go faster.
But the grind is a true killer and the level 40 quest is medieval torture.

[geldonyetich]

So, erm, what part of Lineage 2 do you enjoy?  (I mean, aside from the dark elf lingerie.)

[Falconeer]

So, erm, what part of Lineage 2 do you enjoy?  (I mean, aside from the dark elf lingerie.)

Sounds, for example. Very well done.
Then special graphical effects for hits, critical hits and soulshots too. And of course characters and equipment visuals.
A certain "true medieval" feeling I guess.
Plus, of course, the massive PvP.

Uhm, that's it for me I guess...

[caladein]

So, erm, what part of Lineage 2 do you enjoy?  (I mean, aside from the dark elf lingerie.)

- It's very pretty and yet, didn't run horribly on my system.
- Sieges and the associated political game were fun at times.
- Bishops in sieges were really fun, especially as I'm a sucker for AOE Healers. (Leveling one though is a special kind of torment that I doubt all our collective sins would merit).

[geldonyetich]

So, if I'm summarizing that right:

The Atmosphere
The PvP

I'm not going to tell you that it's wrong to spend $15/mo for these things.  If you enjoy the game, you enjoy the game.  I will say that my personal preference is towards a robust gameplay mechanic that's good enough to make PvE (a contest against mere AI driven loot bags) fun over a consistant period of time.  If it can handle that, then the PvP will probably be good too (assuming the developers manage to develop something worth fighting over).

A relatively involving story is good too, and to an extent I could say that this also could be lumped into "Atmosphere".  Funny thing about atmosphere, though, is that this too is a matter of personal preference.  Some atmospheres "click" more for people than others.  FFXI didn't exactly "click" for me at first, but I grew to like it.

Then, of course, there's the grind.  In time, I've come to recognize a fundamental truth about the Grind, and it is this:
The grind does not manifest until you are actually bored of the game.
In other words levels, and the time it takes to reach them, do not particularly matter so long as you're able to derive some enjoyment out of the gameplay.  The problem with MMORPGs is they often have other hooks (such as the ones recognized by Richard Bartle - achievement, socializing, exploring, and griefing) to keep players there after they're bored of the game mechanic itself.  The pain one feels at enduring the grind is the hooks keeping them playing a game that they should have put down.

So, to hear that FFXI or Lineage II has a long "grind" is just suggesting that the time it takes to level exceeds the enjoyment that the player can pull out of them.  Enjoyment of the specific game mechanic being a subjective thing, I can see why players would want to play both.

It's a pity that FFXI has other hurdles besides the grind, like group mandatory progression schemes that lack an adequately improved LFG interface.  If FFXI had a LFG interface like DDO (where it's possible to log in, find a group looking for more, and join them in less than a minute) and perhaps faster means of travel to reach groups, then that would solve the problem of inability to solo.

[Lantyssa]

It's a pity that FFXI has other hurdles besides the grind, like group mandatory progression schemes that lack an adequately improved LFG interface.  If FFXI had a LFG interface like DDO (where it's possible to log in, find a group looking for more, and join them in less than a minute) and perhaps faster means of travel to reach groups, then that would solve the problem of inability to solo.

Not for me.  While I like to socialize, I generally prefer to explore and fight by myself.  Groups really do not work for me due to a variety of reasons.

I did not reach a point where travel was an issue, however needing a group will always be one no matter how good the LFG and meeting mechanics are.

[Dren]

Not for me.  While I like to socialize, I generally prefer to explore and fight by myself.  Groups really do not work for me due to a variety of reasons.

Same here.  The fact that it took a full well balanced group (read: needed fighter/mage/healer) just to fight crabs and rabbits was a major block to me.  I mean, those weren't even really big hairy rabbits.  They were normal sized, but could kick and throw sand at you like nobody's business! 

When I played, I concentrated on the red mage job.  I picked that because I figured I'd be hybrid enough to fit into most groups.  Wrong.  If you were outside of the Big 3, you were only picked up as extras.  When I finally got to a level where I was like 10 over some decent MOBs that dropped nice things, it still wasn't enough to solo them.

I mean, I could do it, but the risk was still too high.  I was dieing every 4th fight and making that awesome corpse run every time.  That's about the time I quit out of disgust.

I always felt weak.  I always felt I was at the mercy of a group (Read: bossed around by a White Mage!)  I never felt like I really was progressing, so I kept putting more hours into it, but never got anywhere with the steep curve.  It eventually was just a huge drain on me.  I was escaping from real life's crap to go play even worse crap.  A really strange game and phenomenon.

One good thing that I just remembered.  I felt like I could speak Japanese. (Nice in-game translation tool)

[Miasma]

One good thing that I just remembered.  I felt like I could speak Japanese. (Nice in-game translation tool)

Some of the translator abuses were amusing.

[Hutch]

When I played, I concentrated on the red mage job.  I picked that because I figured I'd be hybrid enough to fit into most groups.  Wrong.  If you were outside of the Big 3, you were only picked up as extras.  When I finally got to a level where I was like 10 over some decent MOBs that dropped nice things, it still wasn't enough to solo them.

My red mage got invited to groups all the time. Up until level 20 or 25 or so, Reds are adequate healers. In the Dunes, I was often the group healer due to White shortages.

I didn't really start having long wait-for-group times until the early 40's. Which, ironically, is when Reds get their signature Refresh (pulsing mana-regen) spell. Mages love Refresh long time, so Reds are in demand after they get Refresh. But, each group only needs one red mage, and I would often see three or four other reds in the lfg window.

I agree about the soloing. I was able to solo up to about 12 or so as a Red (compared to about 8 as a black or white), but when it came to high level farming, I had to visit zones 15 to 20 levels below me to farm "safely". Anything that actually gave even a little bit of xp was too risky.

[Dren]

Well yeah, I meant I couldn't get into groups because I'd be an extra red and those weren't needed.  I was trying to bring my WHM job up to level, but just couldn't bring myself to endure the pain of the dunes again.  Plus, that is truly the most non-solo class evar!  It was about that time I quit.  My RDM job was at 28 or something.

I even unlocked the Bard job.  Cool concept, but not enough to save my sub.

[AcidCat]

I always felt weak.  I always felt I was at the mercy of a group

The forced grouping was really the downfall of the game for me. I quit as a 50Warrior/24Monk when I realized I was spending too much of my gametime just sitting in town looking for a group. I lasted that long in the game because it was my first MMORPG and the world really sucked me in, I still love the aesthetic of the game, fantastic art direction, a world to explore that felt real and interesting. But at the end of the day my time is more valuable than just sitting around pissing away an hour or more every time I wanted to play.

[bhodi]

Got to 50whm/25brd and quit over the renkei. I had no trouble finding a group, obviously.