NWN2: Thoughts?

[El Gallo]

The story remains "OK" but I hate HATE HATE the "influence" system.  I hated it in KotOR II and I hate it more here.  Is there some way to bump up my influence through the console?

I love it. Why do you dislike it so much?

I play single-player RPGs basically because they are like watching a mildly-interactive TV show.  I want to see what all the NPCs have to say, and I don't want to have to play through the same 35 hours of it again just to see if there is another branch of a dialogue tree before the penultimate encounter or something.  In BG 1-2, NWN, KotOR, etc I could play through the game twice (once good, once evil) and see pretty much everything everybody had to say.  

In KotOR 2, I couldn't see shit from half the NPCs despite going through twice because of the damn influence system, and I feel the same thing coming on here.  They were just props.  Maybe if it were designed better, I'd like it, but some of the things you need to say to gain influence with people are absurd (no matter what the situation, gotta say YOU ARE LOOKING HUGE, MAN, HUGE!!1! to the conflicted warrior asking for advice about a moral dilemma or UR SO HOT OMG HOT HAWT HAWNEZZ to the centuries-old, 25-wisdom priestess wondering what I am thinking about after a crucial battle) and you are regularly put in situations where gaining with one causes losses with other for no sensible reason.  

It also presents yet another thing to metagame around (save game, have touching interaction with buddy A, which causes buddy B to hate you, reload, go back to inn, swap B out of party, have touching interaction with A again, go back to inn, get B again, go kill something).

Maybe if there was enough story/interaction that I could feel satisfied talking to only 2 out of however-many NPCs (I'm only in Act 1) for however-many hours the game will take it'd be OK, but that's not the vibe I am getting.

Luckily, it appears that there is a console command to modify your influence stats with each NPC.  I'll give it a whirl and hopefully it won't fuck everything up.

[Riggswolfe]

Ahh, yeah, I can see where it'd annoy someone who is a completist. I'm the type that usually decides fairly quickly on "I like NPC A and B, C is annoying, D I hope to figure out a way to kill off without causing problems and E I'd erase from the game if I could." Usually, A and B tend to be similiar enough I don't have to metagame like what you're talking about.

I suspect influence was always in these games to an extent, it just wasn't as transparent. I view the romances in Baldur's Gate II to be basically influence games.

[geldonyetich]

So I decided to look on the NWN 2 Technical Support (Self-Help) forum and this is what I found.

Holy snot, XFire majorly lags NWN2?!

Sure enough, shut it down before launching the game and my frame rate about doubled, maybe tripled.  Apparently there's executables for the game that are optimized for different chipsets and XFire prevents the right one from being launched.

[Morfiend]

So I traded out the druid in the party for a Sorc, and Oh. My. God. the game is so much easer. This chick just blows the shit out of everything. Now I wish I had made a magic user, Sorc or Warlock, they make my pretty badass melee guy look like he is in the minor leagues.

[MrHat]

So I traded out the druid in the party for a Sorc, and Oh. My. God. the game is so much easer. This chick just blows the shit out of everything. Now I wish I had made a magic user, Sorc or Warlock, they make my pretty badass melee guy look like he is in the minor leagues.

Ya, if I get this back up, I'm going to make a batshit warlock.

[geldonyetich]

My Eldritch Knight gots the nukage covered.  Actually, though, my Monk could do comparatively good damage - at least against moderate sized encounters where the Fireball isn't capable of tagging more than 3 or 4 foes.

[palmer_eldritch]

If anyone hasn't used the bard in their party much, try that. He doesn't do huge damage, as he stands at the back with his bow (but you can get him a nice crossbow and bolts). What he does do is sing the stoneskin song, which really helps.

At one point you can get a "free" fifth member of the party, who is a fighter. Having her to soak up damage helps a lot too.

On the other hand, if you are playing with the dwarven fighter NPC in your party, you might consider *not* having him succeed in his quest to become a monk. He loses all fighter levels and levels up again as a pure monk. He seems to me to be much weaker now, especially as his main job before in my party was to get the monsters' attention and just soak up damage while my wizard blasted them with spells.

[Riggswolfe]

Right now my best party config seems to be:

Druid, once I tweaked her behaviors she became a powerhouse in my party.
Bard, the dude never seems to die and buffs the hell out of the rest of my party
Dwarf fighter or the rogue, depending on my needs for that mission. I'm trying to get the bard to learn open lock and disarm traps to a level where I can just cast the rogue aside.

[geldonyetich]

If by "the bard", you are referring to Deekin, I wish to say that Deekin is no mere Bard.  His cowardly subserviance with an unusually brave core (for a kobold) has wormed its way into my gut.

[Morfiend]

If by "the bard", you are referring to Deekin, I wish to say that Deekin is no mere Bard.  His cowardly subserviance with an unusually brave core (for a kobold) has wormed its way into my gut.

I found Deekin, but he wouldnt join me. There is Gnomish bard that joins up in Act1. I am really not liking my fighter, and I didnt spec him for any prestige classes, and I think his int is to low for weapon master. I really dont want to start over a third time. Im going to keep pushing, but if it doesnt get better, ill probably just put the game aside.

[geldonyetich]

I haven't actually managed to get Deekin to join me either, but conversing with him indicates there might be the potential for that to happen if I can get him his own shop.

Erm, very minor reverse spoiler space!  Minor if only because Deekin shows up in a place you can't avoid going to with a clear map marker so you can't miss him.

[Rasix]

Deekin?  Ohh that seals it.  I will get this game.

[El Gallo]

I am really not liking my fighter, and I didnt spec him for any prestige classes, and I think his int is to low for weapon master. I really dont want to start over a third time. Im going to keep pushing, but if it doesnt get better, ill probably just put the game aside.

You can change feats and attributes with the console (~) if you want.  I'm pretty sure you can change everything (except maybe your initial class, not sure about that).  It's kind of finicky though.  Be sure to right click your character before opening the console, type DebugMode 1 after you open it and DebugMode 0 before you close it.  Type 'commands' for a list, I think you want removefeat # and givefeat # (you can get the # for each feat in your editor -- not a very user friendly console I'm afraid) and SetINT#, where # is the score you want.

I think you can also use the editor to change the requirements for feats and presitge classes, if you wanted to go that route instead.

[palmer_eldritch]

I didn't mean Deekin - there is another bard. But without giving out too much of a spoiler, you can do something with Deekin later on. I don't know whether he will actually fight for you by the end.

[Strazos]

Shades of Garrick?

[squirrel]

Hrmmm, I think I'm enjoying the toolset as much or more than the game heh. I enjoy the campaign, but the toolset is really kinda cool and easy to use. Banged together a quick dungeon crawl in a few hours. Well worth the $50 for me.

[stray]

The toolset overwhelms me. I've had an easier time installing BSD.

[sinij]

So far my impressions from NWN2.

Good:

Graphics are good, some areas are eye-catching.
Included campaign is so far fun and involving with catchy characters and good voice acting.
D&D RPG with dynamic turn based combat system

Bad:

Interface is poorly planned, it takes too many clicks to get to anything. There is no way to short-key special abilities, like racial, class or domain powers.
Transparency does not work well in 'dungeon' areas, it is very possible to see all black screen when you enter house due to outside edge/wall being in front of your camera.
No on-map movement, so you have to drive your party everywhere you go

Ugly:

Controlling your party is very challenging. I find during the most fights I have to turn off AI and control all of my characters in order to get anywhere. AI will AoE your own party, not heal important characters and chase after unimportant targets. There is no formation movement and it is pain to position your characters for the fight - you have only follow and not follow modes.

[Sky]

That does sound ugly.

Have I asked if you can pause and give orders?

[Riggswolfe]

That does sound ugly.

Have I asked if you can pause and give orders?

Spacebar pauses so you can give orders.

[stray]

Plays out exactly like KoToR, Sky. The skill and combat systems are more deep/complex/convoluted though.

[Sky]

That doesn't sound too bad. Maybe the thing with ordering the group around just sounds real ugly because I'm playing a mastermind in CoV with decent henchmen controls. AoEing party members is still ugly, though, if the AI is doing it. If I'm manually telling it to drop a fireball and don't get out of the way, well, that's just good AD&D action :)

Jesus Saves....and only takes half damage.

[Morfiend]

Plays out exactly like KoToR, Sky. The skill and combat systems are more deep/complex/convoluted though.

What I wouldnt give for the camera and interface to work like KotOR.

[geldonyetich]

What I wouldnt give for the camera and interface to work like KotOR.

See page 4.
Granted, KOTOR's is still a little less awkward than the result.

I'm not sure I'd say NWN2 is quite the same as KOTOR.  It's certainly pretty high up there in terms of similarities, but there are certain aspects of KOTOR (such blaster fighting or the Jedi Knight's force jumping instantly to a combatant) that NWN2 can't hold a candle to.  It's more appropriate to say perhaps that both games are better story delivery mediums than games, where they perform reasonably well if entirely an exercise of min/maxxing and reloading for the win.  Game design tech has moved further than that, I consider PSU a better game in many ways.

[stray]

Yeah, I should say that the interface, cameras, skill, and combat systems are "deep/complex/convoluted". Otherwise, just like KoToR ;).

[EDIT]

Clerics are like KotoR.

[EDIT]

In addition to that camera hack Geldon linked to, I suggest using the "Driving Mode" camera setting. Then it'll behave like KotoR.

Interface in KotoR is far more streamlined, but I'm starting to adjust to NWN's way of doing things (took awhile though). I guess this game has kind of grown on me.

As for the Cleric: He has a wide of range of Jedi like skills --- Lightning, heals, armor and buff auras, good melee. Feels similar to a balanced Jedi in KotoR. I almost want to think that the Jedi class was based on D&D Clerics.

There's no equivalent to a straight up lightsaber wielding assbeater though.

[sinij]

My cleric is underwhelming - I went for wretched cleric that hell-bent of doing nasty things... and well at 4 fighter 4 cleric I do fuck all damage with any of my cleric abilities. If anything I use bless, silence and sound blast (stun) and that about it. Harms do fuck all damage with 19 wis.

[sinij]

Also did I mention 7 (SEVEN) splash screens at a startup?

Don't get me wrong I like this game, but some things about it just drive me crazy.

[stray]

My cleric is underwhelming - I went for wretched cleric that hell-bent of doing nasty things... and well at 4 fighter 4 cleric I do fuck all damage with any of my cleric abilities. If anything I use bless, silence and sound blast (stun) and that about it. Harms do fuck all damage with 19 wis.

It's a combo of all those things, not just the damage or benefit of one spell. Go into a fight with all buffs on.

I'm still a newb to D&D and all, but I wouldn't multiclass a Cleric that early either. Once you start getting more Domain spells, things improve....But since you've taken Fighter levels early on, you're kind of shortchanging yourself.

As for the actual Domain spells, I'd suggest getting one that's Damage focused (Fire, Air, Destruction, War, etc) and one that has shielding or buffing benefits (Magic, Earth, Healing). You can open up fights with destructive spells, and easily knock the shit out of surviving stragglers with melee.

[Nija]

Also did I mention 7 (SEVEN) splash screens at a startup?

Don't get me wrong I like this game, but some things about it just drive me crazy.

Rename the movies folder.

[Xilren's Twin]

My cleric is underwhelming - I went for wretched cleric that hell-bent of doing nasty things... and well at 4 fighter 4 cleric I do fuck all damage with any of my cleric abilities. If anything I use bless, silence and sound blast (stun) and that about it. Harms do fuck all damage with 19 wis.

It's a combo of all those things, not just the damage or benefit of one spell. Go into a fight with all buffs on.

Standard buff set for me atm is Prot from Evil Magic Circle, Bless, and Bulls Strength/Divine Power/Righteous Might.  Ranged with Melf Acid Arrow, Hammer of the Gods, Flamestrike, and summon an animal when needed.  Healing is for post battle ;)

Not sure the benefit of taking 4 levels of fighter is worth it; extra feats vs extra spel levels...

Xilren

[Sky]

Is Sinij really bitching that a hybrid character isn't as strong at spellcasting as a pure caster?

/boggle

[stray]

You can make them far more spell focused than the average hybrid character though. They're better casters than pure casters, I think, since they dish out a wider variety of damage (arcane, divine, elemental? Not to mention physical damage whenever you want to melee). You need to tough it out a bit through the early levels though.

And most importantly.....The way encounters play out, some mobs are going to get in your Wizard's face eventually. Under those conditions, being a Cleric with high armor, touch casting, and healing spells is better than being a clothie and shit out of luck. You're a better caster because you're not a dead caster.

[Sky]

Cleric 8 = pure caster. Cleric/Fighter 4/4 = hybrid.

[stray]

Ah, my bad. Yeah, we're both in agreement.

[sinij]

I find that my main character *can* die, a change from most RPGs. I went fighter/cleric for survivability.

That being said I have few questions:

1) I made a mistake picking weapon masteries, I mis-applied one of my weapon masteries. Is there any way to fix it?
2) Defensive casting - does it affects melee at all?