NWN2: Thoughts?

[Riggswolfe]

It's coming out at this end of this month I believe. I'm looking forward to it. The previews on IGN have me salivating:

Strongholds!
3 NPCs in your party!
Interesting villians
Better toolset! (ok, at this point this one is unproven but it is a boasting point from Oblivion)
A better story (so I hear)

[HaemishM]

Since the combat is still real-time, I'm just not that enthused.

[Morfiend]

I had a lot of fun making modules for the first one. I didnt mind the combat so much, just the horribly dull singleplayer story, and the fact that the outdoor toolset was pretty bad. I always felt like nothing in the game was made for the game. It felt like it was, a game made with the toolset.

[Rasix]

Since the combat is still real-time, I'm just not that enthused.

You could always pause and give orders in NWN.  I'm sure it's the same here.  Same as every Bioware/Black Isle/Obsidian game, ever (or a game like Freedom Force).

I don't get why people have such a bug up their asses about this kind of combat.  If you want it to be turn based, then just keep pausing.

Early previews sounds like they're making a BG2/KOTOR style main plot.  Which is.. yummy.

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah, but you can't keep pausing a multiplayer game, which is what NWN is supposed to be all about. If they just left the toolset off and made BG3, I might think about it, but the whole multiplayer aspect destroys D&D's tactical combat.

[Rasix]

Ahh yah, I never got into the multiplayer aspect of NWN.  If a game's not good enough on its single player merits, it doesn't really even register with me.

I may tinker with the toolset (I really want to wait for Dragon Age for this), but it'd be a single player mod.  I really want to whip up something noir.

[Bunk]

I'm facing the dillemna of having friends that want to do the main quest as a multiplayer party. Will I be able to hold off just playing through it single player? Gonna be tough.

[Xilren's Twin]

I'm facing the dillemna of having friends that want to do the main quest as a multiplayer party. Will I be able to hold off just playing through it single player? Gonna be tough.

You know that may be an interesting excercise is a few of us here want to run through the main storyline together.

I'll get it no matter what of course, despite NWN2 being a mere baby step in the direction everyone wants it go.  At least it's shipping with hooks to database support already so the persistant world folks don't have to re-invent that wheel.

Xilren

[Yoru]

I'm going to hold on this one until I hear that the main plot doesn't pull the same bullshit as NWN 1: "Go get the key from the east! Now go get the key from the west! Now go get the key from the south! OMG NORTH GATE OPEN!"

I'll probably pick it up later on, in the post-Christmas release slump, if the buzz from people I trust is good.

[HaemishM]

Since the combat is still real-time, I'm just not that enthused.

You could always pause and give orders in NWN.  I'm sure it's the same here.  Same as every Bioware/Black Isle/Obsidian game, ever (or a game like Freedom Force).

I don't get why people have such a bug up their asses about this kind of combat.  If you want it to be turn based, then just keep pausing.

And pausing and pausing and pausing. Unlike Freedom Force, NWN felt really jumpy when pausing. I didn't like the pausing aspect, and like Way said, it killed multiplayer. Not to mention the toolset took almost a year to get stable, and Bioware's not even the main architect on this one, Obsidian is. Based on reports about KOTOR 2 (also by Obsidian), I'm not that confident in its ability to not be a buggy POS.

[Strazos]

In theory Haemish, Infinity Engines games were "real time" with the ability to pause constantly.

Thoughts?


And as an aside, I don't see too much of a reason to pause in multi if you only control a single character.

[schild]

I'll probably buy Neverwinter Nights 2, cry a bit about BIS being dissolved, and then put it on the shelf FOREVER like I did NWN. I simply have trouble believing it will be any good. Sure, I'm excited about Oblivion in Space Mass Effect, but Bioware (or even Obsidian) without BIS (which I guess turned into Obsidian, but kinda sucks compared to BIS) is just not the same.

Really, it's been downhill since Planescape.

[geldonyetich]

Well, I certainly got enough milage out of the first NWN to consider buying the second.

I'm not going to put it on pre-order though, because I'm not positive that Obsidian can really deliver a Neverwinter Nights that's genuinely better than Bioware's.  I'll wait until I hear some good reviews on it, written in such a way as to fully justify a high score and establish why it's really a better gam experience, before I pick this one up.

[Fabricated]

I have it preordered. I imagine it'll be wholly underwhelming but so was the original NWN, and I got all three expansions so I could play the better user-made content.

It was worth it.

[Lt.Dan]

I'm definitely going to buy it.  Killing monsters and getting treasure without on-line asshattery makes is all worthwhile.  Being able to play co-op with buddies is just cream on top.

That said, I know nothing about it so there's an element of risk involved, but it couldn't be worse that Descent to Undermountain...

The problem with pausing was that you had to pause right at the start of combat.  Pausing mid-combat usually resulted in pausing mid combat-round (meaning the window for your brilliant strategy had closed or you fireballed your entire party) or stupid pathing resulted in squishy characters making their trip to safety past every enemy combatant and getting AoO'd to death. 

[Nija]

I'm messing around in the editor tonight and it's very, very cool.

There is going to be more shitty content than ever before because this thing is very accessible. It seems very powerful too, but 0.25% of the population can actually put it to use.

[Big Gulp]

Didn't really enjoy the first one, doubt I will this one.  No thankee.

Too many good 360 games on the horizon, anyway.

[Bunk]

And pausing and pausing and pausing. Unlike Freedom Force, NWN felt really jumpy when pausing. I didn't like the pausing aspect, and like Way said, it killed multiplayer. Not to mention the toolset took almost a year to get stable, and Bioware's not even the main architect on this one, Obsidian is. Based on reports about KOTOR 2 (also by Obsidian), I'm not that confident in its ability to not be a buggy POS.

KotoR 2 had bugs, but none anywhere near the level of say Bloodlines. The main bitch about KotoR 2 was that the publisher made them push it out early and they hacked out 80% of the ending. The first 90% of that game was very good. It wasn't quite as solid as the first Knights, but it still had the solid storyline trademarks of Bioware's stuff.

I still think NWN was a great system, I never minded the pace of the combat. It sounds like 2 is going to address a number of pet peaves I had with the original:

 - no more "tiered" hills. Landscape actually rolls now, looks considerably less tile like.
 - using KotoR's conversation approach, instead of reading what an NPC says in a tiny little dialog box in the corner
 - models with more than 7 polygons. Eye candy matters to me.
 - proper party system

[Strazos]

Proper party indeed. I wanted to play a rogue in the original NWN, so I was practically forced into getting the bard or something so I could have a caster and healing. Stupid design there.

[Xilren's Twin]

I'm messing around in the editor tonight and it's very, very cool.

I'm fooling around with it too, and I have to say, so far I like it.  Hadn't read and help files or tutorials yet and was able to find what i need just looking in logical places (though I still haven't figures out the camera controls in it yet), plus I love being able to un-pin the various windows to free up screen real estate.  I like the wireframe views alot.  And it autosaves too.

I do wonder though, with having to "bake" an area/module before using it, how long it will take when you get a bunch of areas chock full of stuff.

Xilren

[Nija]

Camera controls...

CTRL + left mouse + drag the mouse around is move the camera
CTRL + right mouse + drag the mouse around is turn the camera from a fixed point (where it sits now)
CTRL + Shift + left mouse(?) + drag the mouse up and down to change the height.

Mousewheel to zoom of course.

[Ironwood]

Um, What ?

Where you getting the toolset ?

[Nija]

http://www.atari.com/nwn2/presell/

OR

http://www.isohunt.com/torrents/?ihq=nwn2

Not sure if the pre-order thing is exclusive to the US or not.

[Ironwood]

Hmmm.


Any good ?

[Furiously]

How many more pixels do they have in the character models? Does leather armor look like it isnt a halloween costume?

[Nija]

Toolset screenshot thread #4 on the official forums

There is some good stuff being made already and the thing has been out exactly 1 week.

[Strazos]

Looks like it would run like shit on a lot of systems.

[Samwise]

I actually suspect they're aiming for fairly low system requirements.  Flipping through the screenshots I'm was surprised how dated the graphics look in a lot of them.  A big improvement over NWN 1, definitely, but most of what I saw looked a notch or two below Half-Life 2 in terms of poly count and lighting.  (May just be poor use of the engine in a lot of them -- the above screenshot does look nice, mainly due to good use of light.)

[Yegolev]

The suspended tile ceiling sort of breaks immersion.

[Xilren's Twin]

The suspended tile ceiling sort of breaks immersion.

While true, also remember the standard top down camera angle pretty much makes the ceiling non existant anyway.  The NWN1 camera hack made the game much better for a lot of people, but also exposed part of the engine that were never really designed for, like cecilings and a sky dome.

Xilren

[Ironwood]

I have to agree with Samwise, if that's the 'High End' settings on the screenshot (and let's face it, it probably is.)

Not going to be that much of a system hog.


I have finished downloading the toolset (but I'm in work dammit), so I'll maybe have a look tonight. I wonder if it's as transparently easy as the last one ?

[Nija]

Guys... this is the EDITOR. That's the lowest, most pixelated setting he's got it on.

As for the ceiling, I don't see much wrong with it. Never seen a tiled ceiling like that before?

Here's a shot of semi-cranked up detail (editor doesn't have the same video/quality settings as the final game will, I assume) outdoors scene, again made by some random dude last week.

[Riggswolfe]

Now that you figured out the camera controls for me I may play with the editor some more. I didn't like all the damn windows that popped up and made it hard to see...well, anything except a tiny little square right in the middle. I know I can get rid of the squares but they had alot of info on them and stuff.

[Ironwood]

Ooooh, pretty.

[Yegolev]

Never seen a tiled ceiling like that before?

Not in a medieval setting.  I was just being an asshole for comedy, anyway.  The game looks good.