NWN2: Thoughts?

[MrHat]

So, I realized today that I could've gone 1 bard/4 fighter and then gotten RDD since you can still pump points into Lore.  So where does that leave me?  I don't know.  Maybe reroll it how I wanted, or push forward with my bard (I hate being a bard though, fairy fucking whistling).

Maybe I'll roll up my monk.  Weapon focus/specializtion in unarmed, circle kick.

Not sure on the other feats, maybe cleave/greater cleave, or power attack, maybe imp crit? I dunno.

Lawful evil, not sure how a lawful evil monk works though.  A thug with lots of fighting discipline?

Human for the extra feat? Or one of the other races (nothing more than +2 ECL, since I want to try and hit 20 in the original campaign) for some bonuses that might be beneficial?

I think I want to make a bruiser if that matters, so upity str instead of my usual upity dex monk.

[Ironwood]

This patcher is shit.  Majorly, majorly shit.


Oh and, ok, maybe I'm getting the apple-slashing option because I'm an evil rogue.  Maybe.  If that's the case, it's still fucking overheavy and hamfisted and bloody awful.

[stray]

I'll agree that it could be presented better, but Chaotic Evil is just that, I think. It's worse than a love child between Palpatine, Thulsa Doom, and a group of crusty Indonesian pirates. All three believe in some kind of order at least.

[geldonyetich]

you can stop lots of apps from sucking up your CPU etc. by running msconfig.exe
e.g. check tab "services", select hide all MSFT apps,  see what else is running and disable it for a new profile.  You can restore the original profile when you don't want to play (and reboot obviously).

You misunderstand the issue with XFire.  The problem isn't that it won't close when I tell it to or won't uninstall properly or whether or not it launches when windows starts (which Msconfig has some control over).  [As far as I can tell, Xfire does not have those problems.]  The problem isn't even that XFire is running: It's an application that is supposed to be running while games are running.  The problem is that, prior to Xfire's recent patch, it sapped 20 FPS from Neverwinter Nights 2, where it doesn't affect other games.  In other words, Xfire is an uncommonly nasty power sucker when it comes to NWN2... or was, before they patched it to run NWN2 under different Xfire credentials.  [Prior to that, one could simply close XFire to get those frames back.]

[Nija]

It's like some of you guys are game-impaired.

[palmer_eldritch]

It's probably too late to say this, but I just didn't install it - you don't need it, not even for multiplayer, for the benefit of anyone yet to install the game. If you can't uninstall it properly once it is there, that really sucks.

[Cheddar]

It's like some of you guys are game-impaired.

What the fuck are you talking about?  I paid 50 dollars (a lot for me right now) to get kicked in the nuts while I watch my computer cry in shame. 

[Strazos]

Hat, you can never go wrong with crits. Never.

[Cyrrex]

Maybe I'll roll up my monk.  Weapon focus/specializtion in unarmed, circle kick.

Not sure on the other feats, maybe cleave/greater cleave, or power attack, maybe imp crit? I dunno.

If I remember correctly, you can (and maybe should) get all that stuff.  Greater Cleave is fan-fucking-tastic for a pure melee type, and I think power attack is a pre-req for it?  I rarely user power attack, but I always have it as a monk because it leads to something else important.   And like Strazos says, you definitely need to improve the crit range as much as possible.  The monk's biggest weakness out of the gates, in my opinion, is the crummy x2 bonus and the need to roll a perfect 20...when you get your monk attacking 5 or 6 times per round (7, if the fighter "bug" still exists), a better crit range is a huge improvement.  I'm practically getting frothy just thinking about it.

I always go STR as a monk...I never understood the reason to go DEX (I keep it relatively high for the AC/Dodge and for other pre-requisites, but always less than strength), unless you wanted to use a bow - but then you could just take Zen Archery and apply your Wisdom mod, which you will want to be high anyway.   Dexterity just seems like a waste to me, because it forces you to waste a feat on Weapons Finesse...and Strength helps you in so many other ways.   I am open to be corrected, however, because I'm hardly an expert.

Also, is it just me imagining things, or is Flurry of Blows more effective this time around?  I am only getting a -1 penalty on my attack bonus, which is a trivial price to pay for the extra attack per round.

Edit:  By the way, does anyone know exactly what Power Critical does?  It says something convoluted, like "+4 to confirm if a target is a threat" or some crazy shit. 

[MrHat]

I was wondering the same thing Cyrrex, noticed that when I leveled up the warrior-douche at the beginning.

Thanks for the advice, I took Imp. Initiative at the beginning, instead of power attack, starting to doubt my choice a bit now.  Guess it can't really hurt.  I took Weapon Specialization: Unarmed for my first feat @ L3, and seems it was a good choice.  Between that and flurry of blows, I'm 2 hitting everything so far.  He's a badass, only struggles when he gets surrounded.

I'm thinking as I progress, I'll focus my casters on buffing, and just be super.

Like Caine in Kung Fu.

Fucking "Recommend" keeps telling me to chose Dodge/Mobility for Spring attack, I'm not really seeing the joy there though.

[Cyrrex]

Isn't Weapons Specialization a Fighter feat only, or is it based on your INT mod (or something else)?  I'm always tempted to give my monk a few fighter levels, and I thought this was one of the reasons.  That, plus the extra feats, extra base attack bonus, and the bug (?) that used to exist giving you an extra attack.  All at a cost, of course.

[MrHat]

Isn't Weapons Specialization a Fighter feat only, or is it based on your INT mod (or something else)?  I'm always tempted to give my monk a few fighter levels, and I thought this was one of the reasons.  That, plus the extra feats, extra base attack bonus, and the bug (?) that used to exist giving you an extra attack.  All at a cost, of course.

Ya, but then I remember Perfect Body.

Oh, shit, I think yer right on the Specialization, I was thinking of Weapon Focus maybe? I'm a little vague away from my computer.  Is there a web based character creater for this stuff?

[Cyrrex]

Ya, that and your fists become 1d20 weapons at some point after level 16 (or maybe on 16?).

And yes, Weapons Focus is available to all, so that's probably what you were thinking.  I'm not sure if there is an automated creator, but there is certainly LOADS of information on character builds...none of which I can access here from work.  I know from my own experience that a pure level 20 monk is pretty decent.  The other popular build is probably monk/fighter 16/4, but I think that was mainly to take advantage of an attacks-per-round bug that existed in the original game (not sure if it is a true bug, or whether or not it has been corrected).  I really need to get my hands on a good guide, because a lot of this is hazy.

[stray]

Keep in mind that NWN doesn't follow D&D to a T. I'm not sure about monks, but some other classes are implemented kind of half assed. PnP based guides don't help a whole lot.

[Cyrrex]

Keep in mind that NWN doesn't follow D&D to a T. I'm not sure about monks, but some other classes are implemented kind of half assed. PnP based guides don't help a whole lot.

I'm sure you are right...I was thinking more along the lines of an old NWN character guide, most of which would still apply.

[Riggswolfe]

Edit:  By the way, does anyone know exactly what Power Critical does?  It says something convoluted, like "+4 to confirm if a target is a threat" or some crazy shit. 

Ok, when you roll a potential crit, say a natural 20, it is only a potential crit. They call it a threat in D&D. You then have to roll again, if you hit again (you just have to hit) THEN it is a critical and I believe the terminology is confirming the critical. Power Critical gives you a +4 to this roll so it makes it easier to actually critical.

[Cyrrex]

Edit:  By the way, does anyone know exactly what Power Critical does?  It says something convoluted, like "+4 to confirm if a target is a threat" or some crazy shit. 

Ok, when you roll a potential crit, say a natural 20, it is only a potential crit. They call it a threat in D&D. You then have to roll again, if you hit again (you just have to hit) THEN it is a critical and I believe the terminology is confirming the critical. Power Critical gives you a +4 to this roll so it makes it easier to actually critical.

Ah, yes, I had forgotten that.  Still, it seems like it would only be useful in early levels when your to-hit bonus is low, or against enemies with insanely high AC?  A good PvP skill maybe?  I can't really see the usefulness otherwise, but then I'm always doing everything  I can to get my attack bonuses as high as I can.

[Cheddar]

Edit:  By the way, does anyone know exactly what Power Critical does?  It says something convoluted, like "+4 to confirm if a target is a threat" or some crazy shit. 

Ok, when you roll a potential crit, say a natural 20, it is only a potential crit. They call it a threat in D&D. You then have to roll again, if you hit again (you just have to hit) THEN it is a critical and I believe the terminology is confirming the critical. Power Critical gives you a +4 to this roll so it makes it easier to actually critical.

Ah, yes, I had forgotten that.  Still, it seems like it would only be useful in early levels when your to-hit bonus is low, or against enemies with insanely high AC?  A good PvP skill maybe?  I can't really see the usefulness otherwise, but then I'm always doing everything  I can to get my attack bonuses as high as I can.

Its a pre req for cleave.  So yeah, kinda need it for the uber attacks. 

[El Gallo]

Power attack (-to hit in exchange for + damage) is a pre-req for cleave not power critical.

[Xilren's Twin]

Ok, had to minorly vent on this one minor side quest design choice.

There one fireplace that obviously has somehting in it you need, and you interaction choices are "reach into the fire" or "leave alone".

Now, i assumed reaching in, which must be done by your main character, would be some sort of skill/ability check.  Noooo.  That would make too much sense.
Fail, take minor damage and get the wonderful message like "fire = hot, better put it out".
Ok, so, how about a Ray of frost spell? No.
Use a holy water on it? No.
Gust of wind? No.
Cone of Cold?
Ice Storm?
Etc etc.

The only way to put out this apparently godlike fire, is to go back down stairs into the kitchen, find a special "empty bottle" (cause the empty potion bottles im carrying around just won't do of course), then find a "jar of water" to fill the bottle, then take the now filled bottle of water back upstairs to put out said fire via coversation choice when interacting with it.

Note to module makers; that's lame.  Now matter how you slice it, story wise, mechanics wise, design wise, it's lame.  It's illogical and stupid. Don't do that.

On the plus side I am really enjoying the game and just got my stronghold.  Now it's time to focus on that.  I really ought to slow down and try crafting some stuff but the loot im finding is good enough i certainly don't need to. Just carrying a metric ton of gems, reagents, and recipe book around on all my npcs now.  The only thing i wish i had was a better weapon for my cleric, still using the Bone Phoenix morning star.

Xilren

[palmer_eldritch]

One hint on the stronghold - you can just dump your crafting stuff somewhere (probably in the basement next to the crafting stations). It will always be there when you come back, so no need to carry it all around.

[Zane0]

Ugh.

I really wanted to like this game, but I'm more enraged than satisfied.  The story is decent, I suppose, compared to the original NWN.  Frankly, I found Icewind Dale's story more compelling, and it doesn't even compare to BG2 or PS:T, or even the KOTOR series in my personal opinion.  Kelgar and Grobnar are sorta cool, but the dialog & characters were a let down, overall.  Too many party companions, not enough individual depth.  Who really wants to switch their party around when the inventory system is a total pain and the load times are atrocious?  I guess I expected too much from Avellone, on account of his previous work.  I mean, at least KOTOR2 was brilliant, if technically flawed.

Speaking of which, performance is irritating.  That is to say, I found it manageable until spells started flying around in constricted environments, and that happens more and more frequently as you go on.  So, I essentially become increasingly annoyed with the entire game as the plot reaches the "climax", and it falls flat as a result.  Blah.  I will say that the engine has potential.  I will really like this game in two years, when they fix all the scripting errors and get a few expansions out, and when I manage to build a computer that can run it properly.

*VAGUE SPOILER*

Even sexing the elf is not a satisfying consolation prize, because it's probably the most lukewarm crpg romance that I can remember.  So much for that!

[Ironwood]

My machine is plagued with CRC errors on install.  Game installs on the wives machine and on my laptop.  It's NOT the DVD.  I've changed my DVD drive and I get the same shit.

This is fucking ridiculous.  I'm glad I only bought one copy for the wife.  Now she can play it and tell me what it's like - which saved me from the original NWN campaign.

Honestly, PC gaming these days is a fucking joke.  I do more tech support at home than I do for my fucking users.

[Cyrrex]

Honestly, PC gaming these days is a fucking joke.  I do more tech support at home than I do for my fucking users.

Just the other day, after overcoming a difficult NWN2 installation (possibly the fault of my DVD player), it dawned upon me that anywhere from a third up to a half of all game installs over the past several years have been problematic in one way or another.   I'm not exactly bitter about it, because a guy like me (read: PC idiot) can actually learn a great deal in attempting to work out a solution.  Still, what you said.

[Signe]

I've played it a little bit now.  It almost feels like a job... I don't think this game is rubbish but, so far, it's not very compelling.  I guess the up side is that at least I can be a woman... even if she's extroidinarily ugly.  I just got Gothic III and, although I've not installed it yet, I have a feeling I'm going to have to be some big muscley man.  Oh well... way to put off half the world.

[Ironwood]

I've seen nothing yet that wasn't already there with NWN.  I honestly think new people who haven't played either would have done better to purchase the NWN collection with all the expansions.

What a crock of shit this is :  New money for old rope.

[Xilren's Twin]

I've seen nothing yet that wasn't already there with NWN.  I honestly think new people who haven't played either would have done better to purchase the NWN collection with all the expansions.

What a crock of shit this is :  New money for old rope.

I don't get it.  Was it not clear for months that NWN2 was simply and enhanced engine and some new features but not a totally new product compared to NWN1?

And speaking of new money for old rope, what the fuck did Oblivion add over Morrowind besides better graphics and a new story?

It's like you're new to pc gaming or something.  A sequel game that's a lot like the first one; who'da thunk it?

The engine is most definately better looking that NWN1 but a large margin.  The outdoor areas with acutal hills, mountains, water and stuff are far superior than tiled pyramid heights of NWN1. The included campaign is a LOT better than NWN1 even with the slow start (and longer too), and the addition of full party control, convesation custscenes, and follower storylines are straight out of Kotor and feels that way.  Stronghold construction and management, crafting your own decent stuff, more races and classes, etc.

In short, it IS a better game... but it has not suddenly become Multiplayer GURPS.

I'll grant you the bitching over technical issues.  If you can't manage to play it I feel for you, but that's hardly a new experience in pc gaming..

Xilren

[Ironwood]

Nope, it was abundantly clear to me, even way back then.

Oblivion sucked balls too, you know.

The outdoor areas are small as fuck - smaller than NWN1.  The graphics are touted as better and yet manage to look even more asstastic as well as power hungry and buggy as fuck.  The campaign may be better than the original NWN campaign, but so was me trying to snap my own spine to reach my testicles and have a good lick.  If we want to compare it instead to the Undrentide/HotU which came later, it's would appear to be a lot worse.  Sure, I'll give you the crafting as looking cool, but I don't know because I can't install the game.  Indeed, it could be robot Jesus on my machine, but I don't know because I can't install the game.  Also, stronghold stuff and crafting were both in BG and ToEE which are ages old.  If you have to cannabalise Kotor for your storylines you're fucked also.  Sound and voice acting are also cannablised too, btw.  Oh, and the full party stuff everyone's complaining about because your party members are dumb as fucking rocks and need micro managed in real time.

In short, I knew exactly what to expect and what would be happening, but this is the place to come along and pour scorn on it.  What, you're a mod and you don't get this ?  I'm astounded.

Anyway, my point was that people would be BETTER OFF buying the original.   I don't think the enhancements are worth the shite that comes with it.

[Cheddar]

Anyway, my point was that people would be BETTER OFF buying the original.   I don't think the enhancements are worth the shite that comes with it.

Wish I had just picked up the diamond edition and a 12 pack of beer.  I am tempted to just toss it to one of the other F13'rs.

[Ironwood]

You can toss the beer my way.

[Rasix]

People with installation problems should check their RAM.  I had tons of problems installing the original NWN and it turned out I had a bad stick of RAM.  This tends to make any installs you do on your computer suspect.

And if you're serious about sending NWN2 somewhere.. uhh.. I'll take it, Cheddar.

[Nija]

If you don't see any striking differences between NWN1 and NWN2 you're either painfully dumb or outright blind, fondling a braille-scrolling monitor.

[Ironwood]

The most striking difference to me at the moment is one works and the other, er, doesn't.

This post brought to you by the campaign to redraft the previous reply which was just 'Fuck Off'.

[Nija]

The worst limitation of NWN and NWN2 is having no Z axis. It's pretty embarrassing that you can't make a "troll under a bridge" scenario at all in the game.

Other than that, the increased party size (you can also do a console command to have even more people in your party) and the keep portion of the game is enough to justify the "2". The editor is more powerful and and easier to use. Not sure about the DM client.

"Fuck off" would have worked perfectly well, I'd have probably replied with the same thing or not at all.

[Ironwood]

Apparently the DM client is lacking some stuff that was available in NWN1.

Which struck me as odd when I read it, since I remember the DM client getting universally vilified for NWN1.  How it could be worse for 2 is a little beyond even my vitriol.