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Author Topic: Veteran Rewards Info  (Read 35836 times)
UnSub
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on: September 20, 2006, 11:34:58 PM

Cryptic have put out some info on the new Veteran Rewards program - an faq that doesn't answer the obvious question of exactly what veteran rewards you can get and some screenshots and a video of CoH/V's wings costume option.

For those who didn't know, the Veteran Rewards program gives players special things for every three months they've been subscribed to CoH/V.

[ Fixed URLs ]
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 11:39:35 PM by Trippy »

eldaec
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Reply #1 on: September 21, 2006, 04:58:39 AM

Quote from: teh faq
Q: If I transferred from the European servers to the North American servers, or the reverse, does my time on the previous servers count towards Veteran Rewards?

A: That functionality will not be supported at launch....

Quote from: unpublished ending to that sentence
...or ever; just like the possibility of transfers or of intercontinental servers, this question is just designed to yank the chain of non-US players.

No doubt someone will be along shortly to ask if the veteran rewards include getting rid of the grind.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
shiznitz
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Reply #2 on: September 21, 2006, 08:28:26 AM

You saved me from making exactly that wiseass crack. Thank you.

I have never played WoW.
HaemishM
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Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 09:02:25 AM

Well, do they?

Reg
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Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 11:22:34 AM

Veteran rewards every 3 months? They must have a serious retention problem if they have to bribe you just to hang on another 90 days.
Glazius
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Reply #5 on: September 21, 2006, 11:29:28 AM

Veteran rewards every 3 months? They must have a serious retention problem if they have to bribe you just to hang on another 90 days.
I may be just a gibbering fanboy, but I think you seriously underestimate a) the intelligence of the consumer and b) the amount of amusement one reward is worth if you think that people will keep paying for a game they hate for 90 days in exchange for, say, a trenchcoat, or a pair of wings.

--GF
Llava
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Reply #6 on: September 21, 2006, 11:34:45 AM

Or a respec.  Or a free costume token.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Lantyssa
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Reply #7 on: September 21, 2006, 03:08:44 PM

Amusingly, winamp decided to play Learning to Fly when I went to look at the video.

I see veteran rewards as a nifty bonus for those still playing the game, but not really a draw to keep people around.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Nevermore
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Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 10:22:44 AM

New Vet reward info up:

Quote
3 Months

Trustworthy
• Trustworthy badge
• Costume Piece: Trenchcoats
• Costume Change Token given to all characters on account
At this first reward level, players unlock the ability to use Trenchcoats on all of their characters, new and existing. We also give them a single Costume Change token to take care of the cost of changing their outfit.



6 Months

Faithful
• Faithful badge
• Costume Piece: Greek Alphabet Chest Emblems
• Costume Change Token given to all characters on account
Here players unlock the ability to have Greek Alphabet chest details on all of their characters, new and existing. Again, we give them a Costume Change token to take care of the cost of adding this to their character costume.




9 Months

Dependable
• Dependable badge
• Costume Piece: Belly Shirt for Females, Scottish Kilts for Males
• Respec given to all characters on account
• Costume Change Token given to all characters on account
At this point players receive the first Respec for all their characters. This respec is separate from the In-Game respecs and the “Freespecs” given out during special events. This respec is given to characters current and new, simply for having an active account for nine months or more.
This reward level also gives offers Male and Huge models the oft-requested “Scottish Kilt” costume option (complete with sporran). Females receive tight fitting “Belly shirts” to show off their well-toned midriffs in battle. Once again, this includes a Costume Change token to cover the costs of altering characters at the Tailor.




12 Months

Loyal
• Loyal badge
• Temporary Power: CHOICE: Permanent Undead Slaying Axe or Permanent Sands of Mu
• Pre-Order Sprints: Rush, Dash, Quick, Surge
• Base Item: Wall Mounted Weapon Displays
When City of Heroes launched, there were several “pre-order” bonuses that players could obtain, but each player was limited to one of these “special sprint” powers on their account. Now, with the Veteran Rewards program, we give these bonuses to all players after one year of subscription.
In addition, players are rewarded with several new Base Items including wall and floor mounted racks of weapons that are seen in the game like Arachnos maces and Circle of Thorn swords.
Finally we have the first of our Choice rewards. Each of the characters on player accounts with twelve or more months will receive the option of having a version of the Undead Slaying Axe or the Sands of Mu that does not expire. Each character can pick a different one, but only one is available per character, so make sure to choose wisely!

It all looks pretty good except for the goofy Greek letters reward at 6 months.  Interesting to see that Wings aren't available in the first year.

Over and out.
Glazius
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Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 11:46:47 AM

Whoa at the temp powers. I hope they'll be scaled-back versions of the real things, because the existing axe and sands are kinda freight-train-y in melee.

--GF
Nevermore
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Reply #10 on: September 27, 2006, 11:58:53 AM

Castle said they're very similar only with a somewhat longer recharge time.

Over and out.
Llava
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Reply #11 on: September 27, 2006, 09:23:48 PM

Yeah that axe owns, undead or not.

I was disappointed with Sands of Mu, though I've heard it's much stronger since the last time I had it.

Awesome at the sprint powers.  That one I wasn't expecting.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #12 on: September 27, 2006, 09:40:55 PM

Some things they didn't point out, but any players will note something different about these pictures:






For the dense: These are new in-flight poses.  Perhaps they're about to let you choose from a few animations for specific things?  We'll see.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 06:54:15 AM

That's cool. Little things like that go a long way to personalizing characters, imo. I used to always go into /surly in SWG, it was nice having a (albeit limited) animation set different from the default.
Glazius
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Reply #14 on: September 28, 2006, 07:02:23 AM

Some of the base shots look interesting, too. It looks like you'll be able to raise and lower individual quadrants of a tile, with 2-4 times as many levels of granularity as previously available.

Also, whole load of new "ordinary" costume pieces showing up in those shots, including Forehead Goggles on that woman. Jay is sexy.

--GF
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Reply #15 on: September 28, 2006, 10:59:23 AM

Nicely observed with the different flight animations.  Here, I was blinded by the awesomeness that was trenchcoat.

Der Helm
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Reply #16 on: September 28, 2006, 10:36:45 PM

That's cool. Little things like that go a long way to personalizing characters, imo. I used to always go into /surly in SWG, it was nice having a (albeit limited) animation set different from the default.
Dammit, i am THIS close to resubscribing ...  angry

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Lantyssa
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Reply #17 on: September 29, 2006, 01:22:27 PM

Dammit, i am THIS close to resubscribing ...  angry
I usually pick it up after the patches for the latest issue gets released.  It gives me a month to play around with the new stuff while I re-learn my character and keeps me from getting disillusioned quite as quickly.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
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Reply #18 on: September 29, 2006, 01:34:03 PM

Dammit, i am THIS close to resubscribing ...  angry
I usually pick it up after the patches for the latest issue gets released.  It gives me a month to play around with the new stuff while I re-learn my character and keeps me from getting disillusioned quite as quickly.

This is exactly how I play, too.  I last anywhere from a couple of weeks to a month and then I cancel.  I'm beginning to wonder if it's not how most people play the game.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
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Reply #19 on: September 30, 2006, 11:24:18 PM

I'm considering trying it out again. Never did mess with CoV much -- I suppose that's the best place to start so I don't get bored too quickly.

[edit]

Apparently Gravity Dominators suck in PvP, don't contribute to groups much, and can't solo.

Boo.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 06:40:21 AM by Stray »
geldonyetich
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Reply #20 on: October 01, 2006, 08:35:42 AM

I've wrestled with the issues of being a Controller, and had these sentiments myself from time to time, but have found them to be only partly true.  Having a soft spot for the 'troller, I've an obligation to explain.
Quote from: stray
Apparently Gravity Dominators suck in PvP[...]
PvP is somewhat rock/paper/scissory in CoH no matter what you play, and so will seem to suck against certain targets.  Dominators/Controllers are good against anything that lacks hold resistance.  (At least once they run out of "break free" inspirations.)  Gravity in particular have intangebility attacks (Dimension Shift) which annoys people in PvE but there is no proper resistance for in PvP.
Quote from: stray
[...]don't contribute to groups much[...]
You might have a hard time finding a group that properly appreciates what gravity can do, but it's there.  The most dangerous mobs typically encountered are bosses, but you can tie them down by stacking two holds on the mob.  Stack enough holds, and you may even be able to hold supervillains/heroes!  Sure, you can't heal like most Controllers, but who needs healing if the group isn't even getting hit?  Dominators are actually a bit better at controlling than Controllers because with Domination active, your holds are extra-effective, requiring much less stacking to bring down big mobs.  If somebody in a group doesn't think that's an important contribution, they're clueless.  This is especially the case on the villain side since the villains lack a proper tank.  Just watch it with the phase attack (dimension shift) because it tends to annoy people when they're attacking something and nothing's happening.

Quote from: stray
[...]and can't solo.
Dominators/Controllers are easy to solo if goal is survival, since they can hold targets.  What you might be saying here is that their damage rate sucks, which is true of Controllers as well (even with the "containment" perk).  Dominators have a little better damage than Controllers, since they've slightly better damage tables and have swapped out their Defender-based secondary pool for attacks.  However, I think both classes' soloing ability takes a dive by 20 when the archetype damage tables apply themselves.  This is when most players give up.  However, the damage rate really picks up at 32, when they get a pet.  Pets do pretty respectible damage, making soloing not only possible, but quite possibily easier and faster than other archetypes!  (You might not get much soloing done at that point because, suddenly, everybody wants you around.  Hypocrites.)

I think the big problem with Dominators is that secondary pool.  It's very inefficient - it doesn't do nearly as good of damage as that endurance consumption rate suggests it should.  When your Domination perk is active it's fun to go to down with those, but otherwise I avoid shying away from then as much as possible until you pick up Stamina or Single Origin potency endurance reducers.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 09:01:55 AM by geldonyetich »

Llava
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Reply #21 on: October 01, 2006, 08:59:10 AM

It's not that Dominators suck.  They're rough to play, though.  Gravity, especially, I have a hard time with.  The slow animations and less-than-great low level powers make things pretty irritating.  However, once you get Wormhole at higher levels anyone who says you can't contribute to a group isn't paying attention.  I've only seen one Dominator use this power frequently (probably because I haven't seen any other high level Gravity Dominators) and it ruled- it was practically the reason our team worked.

The power is an AE Teleport Foe, you choose where they land, and they all show up falling down and disoriented.

As for PvP, the reason it's so hard to be a Dominator in PvP is because, as noted, everyone has either Hold Resistance or Break Fees whereas you are squishy and don't hvae a ton of damage.  This is mitigated somewhat with the recent changes to Domination building in PvP, so you can expect to have it up far more often and actually be a threat.  It's generally best, however, to rely on secondary, largely unresisted effects for PvP.  Repels and Slows are good examples.  A good Ice Dominator might not be able to Hold someone, but with Chilblain shutting down Flight, Ice Slick preventing Jumping, and Shiver, Ice Slick, Arctic Air, and every attack offering a slow effect, preventing someone from running away, they really might as well be Held or, at least, Immobilized.

For Gravity, it's going to be the Intangibility that comes in handy.  That's going to be a great boon to groups in PvP.  Suddenly the competition's tanker or defender or controller doesn't exist.

The Singularity is a good pet to have, though it doesn't deal much damage.  It throws out a bunch of Control powers, and it's really going to help you lock things down in a team.  What this means, though, is that your damage will never be great.  It can be decent, especially once you get Stamina and SOs, but you won't drop any jaws.

If you do go with a Dominator, know that it's tough for a while but it's really my favorite AT to play.  There's a lot of variety offered, always something to do, and it's an extremely aggressive AT.

(Also you might consider Flight as a travel power, as Gravity has a lot of -fly abilities.  Being able to fly when your enemies can't is very good.)

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
stray
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Reply #22 on: October 01, 2006, 02:50:32 PM

Just to be clear: I have a Grav Controller already (in the early 30's I think). Secondary was Kinetics. I thought the idea was cool for awhile, save for the horrendous soloing ability. Definitely was useful in groups though.

I want to try the same thing in CoV, since the Dominator has Damage based secondaries. Dropping healing and buffing entirely sounds like it alleviates some of the pain I had with my Controller. From what I see on the CoH boards though, that doesn't seem to be the case. Why?

Instead of explaining to me the entire Gravity set (which I do appreciate....But I'm already familiar with most of that), can you make some comparisons between Controllers and Dominators? What's holding them back from contributing like Controllers do?

....

/rant

Anyways, why must every single skill or powerset I gravitate towards (pun intended) in MMO's be complete ass? I swear, it seems like I always (unintentionally) choose the long, hard road for myself in these games. I'd like to be FotM just once. angry

/rantoff
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 02:53:48 PM by Stray »
geldonyetich
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Reply #23 on: October 01, 2006, 03:04:28 PM

Quote from: Stray
I want to try the same thing in CoV, since the Dominator has Damage based secondaries. Dropping healing and buffing entirely sounds like it alleviates some of the pain I had with my Controller. From what I see on the CoH boards though, that doesn't seem to be the case. Why?

Instead of explaining to me the entire Gravity set (which I do appreciate....But I'm already familiar with most of that), can you make some comparisons between Controllers and Dominators? What's holding them back from contributing like Controllers do?
The Controller and Dominators start off vary similar, as far as the Primary power set is concerned.  There is some behind-the-scenes damage tables that slowly start applying themselves up until level 20 that determine the rough effectiveness of each archetype at doing damage.  I hear the Dominators have a higher damage table, but if so, it's very minor difference.  The big differences are the secondary power sets and the special ability.

The secondary power set of controllers aer borrowed from Defenders, but at lesser potency, which provides a lot of flexibility to Controllers.  The secondary power sets of Dominators, on the other hand, are a mishmash of melee and ranged attacks mostly borrowed from Blasters - also at lesser potency.  They're not very efficient, my advice is to lean heavier on your primary powers.

Special abilities are a relatively new innovation, introduced at about hte time City of Villains was released.  (So, you probably know about them.)  The Controller's special abilitiy is called "containment", and that causes controller attacks to do double damage against targets that are held or immobilized.  Of course, 2x sucky damage is just slightly less sucky damage, so it's mostly useful prior to the level 20 damage table adjustment and in later levels when you might have a nifty anciliary pool attack.  The Dominator's special ability is called "domination", and basically involves a little bar that slowly builds up as you do or take damage.  Once that bar is full, slam your "domination" button and you've got about 60 seconds or so of being a severe badass.  Your damage doubles against everything you attack (regardless of its status), and your holds and whatnot require less stakcing to hold big stuff and last longer. 

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Reply #24 on: October 01, 2006, 07:26:51 PM

The complaint is that, with Containment taken into account, Controllers do roughly equal damage to Dominators plus they have the secondary support sets.

Dominators really don't deal a lot of damage, unless you're built specifically for that and even then it's outshone by any decent... well, any villain who's trying.  However, that's because villains have much more damage than heroes.  I'd say a Dominator outdamages a Defender and most Controllers.  Probably roughly equal to Tanker damage, which can be significant.  Maybe just a bit less.

Of course, once you have Domination up there's no contest- the Dominator deals quite respectable damage at this point.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
stray
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Reply #25 on: October 01, 2006, 09:17:10 PM

Here's the thread I ran into: Link

Some quotes:

Quote from: Level 24 Noob who knows jack and shit
Doms don't suck only those that suck are the players that say they suck but thats the paleyrs fault for sucking.

Quote from: Another Noob without any high level Dominators

Most Doms solo well. Bosses and Elite Bosses (without purple triangles) should be reasonably easy to deal with. Some sets are a bit lacking in early solo ability, notably Gravity Control and Psi Assult.
 
Large teams can be difficult because you attract aggro like you wouldn't believe. Worse than Blasters. Proper aggro management is a key component of your Dom playskills.

What Doms don't do well against is purple-triangled AVs or EBs. Don't worry too much if you don't know what the purple triangles are, you really don't start seeing them until your 20s. By the 40s they're pretty much ubiquitous but you have a lot more tools to deal with EBs then anyway.

Doms mostly don't do well in PvP due to specific game mechanics that neuter Control sets in that environment. Some Doms can be built to do well, but generally speaking a Dom is a poor choice for the serious PvPer.
More than any other AT, your Dom will benefit from a bit of research up front. It's not enough to simply know not to take your AoE Immobilise, you should have a fairly good idea *why* you don't take it. Doms are a clue-friendly AT. If you have a clue, they're a lot more friendly 

Fire/Fire wil do the best damage of all the Doms, but your Control will take something of a hit because of it. Even then, don't expect to be regularly out-damaging anyone else besides other Doms.

Quote
The quick answer is "no, they don't suck."

The slightly longer answer is that most Dominators suck at virtually all forms of PvP at all levels and against AV/AV->EB. Basically any time the Devs have determined mez should be pretty much invalid, Dominators suck. When mez works, Dominators are great and fun to play.

Quote
I think that many doms believe they are contributing a lot to teams because they see mobs held, confused, or whatever when they cast their aoe's. It looks impressive and it *feels* powerful. What those people aren't thinking about is what would have happened without the control -- or if a corr, MM, or Brute was on the team instead of them.

Quote
Odds are that another toon that can provide *consistent* value (every spawn, reliably) is better for the team. Doms are the weakest link, because they cannot be counted on to be ready at any time.


Either way, whatever experience these particular players may or may not have, it seems like there are complaints all across the board. Usually when people whine about powers or nurfs, they focus on specific things. Telling from this thread, it sounds like Dominators are fucked in many ways. Fucked in soloing ability. Fucked in group contribution. Fucked in timers. Fucked in AV/EB encounters. Fucked at all levels with PvP. Especially fucked if you pick Gravity. Relatively OK if you pick Fire, but still fucked nonetheless.

I can understand a class being screwed and underpowered in some aspects of a game.....But not all of them (unless there's something else to do beside group play, solo, or pvp that Dominators are good at???).


[edit] Apologies for the derail, but this pisses me off. Fuel for the already existing fire and whatnot..
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 09:21:06 PM by Stray »
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Reply #26 on: October 01, 2006, 10:38:30 PM

The most accurate post is the second one you quoted.

I would say that an Ice/Fire Dominator is going to do pretty damn well in all departments- control and damage.  Yeah, Imps are more damaging as pets, but Jack is a pretty formidable pet as well.  The amount of Control you have available in Ice far outstrips what's available in Fire control.  I really don't like Fire control.  I've tried it several times, and each time I've felt pretty useless.  People are willing to go through anything for those Imps I guess.

The reason the Fire secondary does more damage is because it has access to Fiery Embrace, which is sort of like a longer lasting Build Up.  At later levels, however, Psionic Assault will overtake it with Psychic Shockwave (fast recharging major damage PBAE- but you don't get it until 38).

The PvP comments are not totally off, but not exactly correct.  I've done quite well as an ice/ice dominator in PvP, you just have to learn to utilize tools other than hard control until you can stack your hard control enough to break through shields.  With my Ice/Ice, I Slow people, stop 'em from flying away, and stop 'em from jumping, and keep dropping Holds on them.  Eventually, I break through even a tanker's resistance and all the toggles drop, then I move in for the kill.  If Domination is up, I can finish most off before the hold drops.  If not, I can do some appreciable damage still.  I've taken out all the ATs with him, even Regen Scrappers, the real trick is getting that one on one fight to stay one on one for as long as I need to finish it.

This is all before the recent buffs to Domination, when I deleted the previous Dominator and rerolled him as something else.  Now I'm leveling another Ice/Ice Dominator, and I expect him to be quite a bit better off in PvP now that I can expect Domination to be up in every fight.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #27 on: October 02, 2006, 07:23:09 AM

Just to be clear: I have a Grav Controller already (in the early 30's I think). Secondary was Kinetics. I thought the idea was cool for awhile, save for the horrendous soloing ability. Definitely was useful in groups though.

I want to try the same thing in CoV, since the Dominator has Damage based secondaries. Dropping healing and buffing entirely sounds like it alleviates some of the pain I had with my Controller. From what I see on the CoH boards though, that doesn't seem to be the case. Why?

Instead of explaining to me the entire Gravity set (which I do appreciate....But I'm already familiar with most of that), can you make some comparisons between Controllers and Dominators? What's holding them back from contributing like Controllers do?

....

/rant

Anyways, why must every single skill or powerset I gravitate towards (pun intended) in MMO's be complete ass? I swear, it seems like I always (unintentionally) choose the long, hard road for myself in these games. I'd like to be FotM just once. angry

/rantoff

The "contribution" (more like, appreciation) difference between Doms and Controllers is their secondaries. Controllers have heals, which any clueless diku refugee can appreciate. For the more-clued-in, Controller secondaries also have buffs and debuffs, which are more subtle but (in skilled hands) just as useful to a team.

Dominators have the Assault sets. Not only are these gimpy in terms of damage output, they're also redundant in CoV, where every other AT has damage as their primary (I'm counting a MM's pets as "damage").

Thus the difference in perception, at least as it's voiced by the forum drama queens. I personally haven't ever noticed that I've been passed over for teams (I have a level 48 dom). On the other hand, even if I am being passed up, my solo xp rate is often better than I'd get in a team anyway. YMMV of course.

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The sun will shine on us again, brother
geldonyetich
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Reply #28 on: October 02, 2006, 10:04:10 AM

Aside from the general lack of support abilities in Dominators, I'd say the big difference between Doms and Controllers is this:

Controllers feel relatively godlike until around level 15-20 when the damage tables apply themselves, then they're fairly gimped until 32 when the pet kicks in. Dominators feel realtively godlike when their Domination perk is active, gimped at all other times, also until 32 when the pet kicks in.  Controller gimpiness is on a curve, while Dominator gimpness is a straight line, but both of them take a sharp upturn when 32 rolls around.  (Actually, probably more like 33 because pets aren't too effective without a few slots on em'.)  Unless they're Mind Controller, in which case they've taken a vow to have bad damage forever in exchange for a mass confuse that Plant control gets without losing their pet.

In either case, you've got all this lovely grinding Cryptic expects you to sit down and do.  Your experience will vary depending on where you are on this happy fun torture ladder. Controllers/Dominators are very nearly D&D Wizards in this regard - they start off really weak, but later on they've got da powah.  It's as Cryptic wrote in the official description for Controllers, "The Controller is at the same time the weakest and yet the most powerful of the archetypes."  That Dominator you're running around with has the same dealio, except no happy fun Defender powers and instead they get to exercise a power fixation by using Total Focus as a squishy.

If you want the power to smack down your foes right off the bat, yeah, just about any other archetype will do.  Except a Defender or a Tank.  Personally my faves for instant gratification are Scrappers for heroes.  Blasters would work too, but they're trickier to play as they die instantly if they attract too much attention.  For villains, Masterminds, who not only do reasonable damage but are also the closest things Villains have to a tank (Brutes are more like Scrappers with anger management problems) especially if you take a secondary pool with a nice AOE heal.  I mean, offense, defense, and verstility in one package? 

It's really no wonder most players are Masterminds on the evil side, and Scrappers or Blasters on the hero side for that matter.  To some extent, our whining about City of Heroes being a grind is justified only on the extent that the game allows us to make choices that render it more grindy.  Get yourself a phat pimped out hero/villain that has no sitting time and high damaging attacks and you'll be in for a shorter trip to 50 than a Controller or Dominator... but then, I've always found such characters to be a bit one-dimensional.  That's why I decided to start a new Controller the last time I resubbed - if I'm going to slog my way to 50, I might as well make it interesting.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 11:40:07 AM by geldonyetich »

stray
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Reply #29 on: October 02, 2006, 02:12:11 PM

Get yourself a phat pimped out hero/villain that has no sitting time and high damaging attacks and you'll be in for a shorter trip to 50 than a Controller or Dominator... but then, I've always found such characters to be a bit one-dimensional.  That's why I decided to start a new Controller the last time I resubbed - if I'm going to slog my way to 50, I might as well make it interesting.

My second highest level character is a Scrapper. He's OK.

I wanted a Grav Dom (and previously, Controller) specifically because of character concept. If the class is trash, and sucks in pretty much all aspects of the game (or at the very least, sucks until level 32) I'm not going to resub and just play something else.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 02:14:37 PM by Stray »
geldonyetich
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Reply #30 on: October 02, 2006, 02:35:40 PM

One little mistake we might be making here is we're looking at Controllers and Dominators in terms of damage.  This is because all classes in CoX can solo, but they've also got the same experience tables and so the amount of damage you can dish out is a good rough determiner of how quickly you can level.  Consequently, if your criteria for "trash" is "slower experience gain rate", then I'm afraid your Controller or Dominator has won the ugly race in terms of 1-20 trashitude.

However, in the grand perspective, this might not by fair.  Controllers and Dominators do things other than damage.  Take that fourth quote you found that thread while back, "I think that many doms believe they are contributing a lot to teams because they see mobs held, confused, or whatever when they cast their aoe's. It looks impressive and it *feels* powerful. What those people aren't thinking about is what would have happened without the control -- or if a corr, MM, or Brute was on the team instead of them." That guy wasn't impressed, he's looking at raw input/output damage and not seeing how Controllers can figure in.  However, if you're the developer, what you're seeing is a character that can render the toughest mobs in the game into pushovers, and wondering WTF the players problems are not to find value in that.  Controllers and Dominators aren't about damage, even though it's the main hurdle they encounter early, even though it's he main incentive to stick with one until you get the pet, even though it's the Dominator's entire secondary power pool.

I really don't envy Cryptic in their choice of trying to balance a pretty open-ended character development where players are free to gimp or pimp themselves as much as they want.  Here is where their PvP mostly failed, as all characters (even of the same Archetype) are not created equal.  Players either decide that's okay or, indeed, play something else.

One more thing I thought I'd throw in here.  Dominators don't get Illusion, and that's bummer because that's the only way you're getting a pet until 32.  No need to throw in the towel, however, because there is a way you can drastically up your damage prior to that: Hasten and Stamina.  (Actually, you might not get too much use out of hasten on account of propel's long animation.)  You can have both by 20, and I could see this being fairly powerful and fun.  My only gripe with slotting Hasten and Stamina is that's 4 less power slots.  In the grand scheme of things, you're looking at 2 Primary/Secondary/Tiertiery[sic] powers that you're not going to be taking to make room for that.  In the short term, you're looking at level 20 with four less powers to play with.  That's actually a sticking point my current level 20 Scrapper is on, rendering him with just three melee attacks because I've taken stamina and three defensive toggle powers and a slow AOE damage toggle.  I've managed to create a level 20 Scrapper with a poor damage output, even if his long term potential is good.  It's enough for me to think that maybe I should have been creating characters geared towards fun instead of power, and that's actually where my current (Staminaless) Controller is going.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 02:40:57 PM by geldonyetich »

stray
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Reply #31 on: October 02, 2006, 03:34:28 PM

I don't think Controllers are trash. They were good at what they did. I got a lot of use out of both secondaries and primaries when I played a Grav Controller. I could even function as a main healer just with the Kinetics heal alone.

I was simply under the impression that Doms would be just as powerful, except with damage secondaries. From what I can tell, they aren't.

That I have to wait to 32 to improve is even more discouraging. I've only taken one character to that level, and that was way back in the first month of launch (when the game was less grindy). Getting to 32 is a lot of work nowadays.....And for what? The fucking class should show it's worth, in some way or another, at level 1.

Besides, it seems like hitting 32 wouldn't matter as much with a Grav Dominator anyways.

Also, I'm not demanding huge damage or anything. I don't want to be a blaster. I just think that if they're going to offer the ability to use Damage Secondaries, then they should at least make those abilities feel as useful as Controller secondaries. Yet, here you are telling me I shouldn't even depend on Dom secondaries that much. That isn't how a Controller plays out.

Lastly, if good damage from the secondaries isn't an option, then at least make my mez abilities much stronger. Or if lack of solo abilty and lackluster PvE performance is the way they want these classes to play out, then don't make me struggle more than others in PvP. Fuck me in one way or two. Just don't fuck me on all accounts.


Anyways, I'm repeating myself here. Guess I'm not resubbing to CoX after all. ;)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 03:37:02 PM by Stray »
Typhon
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Reply #32 on: October 02, 2006, 05:22:36 PM

geldonyetich, I'd have to say I disagree.  It's a super hero game.  At some point, it supposed to be about kicking ass.  When classes don't kick enough ass, that's a problem.  (yes, I realize it's just my opinion, and is therefore no more valid then yours... I just like to read myself type)

Case in point: First char I created was a storm/elec defender.  I play more then the guys I play with, so I had to solo a fair amount.  Character concept was pretty much what you would think - someone who could control the forces of storm to kick ass.  For those of you who know about the storm defender set, you know that at no time did any ass kicking actually take place.  In short, storm defender soloing is not fun.

I was really, really, really hoping for a elec/storm corrupter.  I was really disappointed.

To game developers: there is a certain portion of you player base, such as myself, for whom the character concept is more important then game mechanic, a gimped class is not something you can easily get past.  I'll admit that I did better at getting past it in this game, but only because I had 2 years of DAOC Thanes to prepare me.
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Reply #33 on: October 02, 2006, 06:49:57 PM

Quote from: Stray
Besides, it seems like hitting 32 wouldn't matter as much with a Grav Dominator anyways.
I agree.  I'd say the real determining point is 20 or 21, once you get stamina.  The dominator's main problem is just that they don't have enough endurance to slam out all those attacks.  Stamina solves that problem.  Single origin enhancements (endurance reducers) would make a big impact too.  Getting the pet would be the same as a Controller except for this.

Grav Dominator has only one big issue that I can see, and that is that Propel is a cosmetic move.  If you're trying to slam around a rapid chain of nasty attacks, having propel's giant animation time thrown into the mix screws everything up.  Skip Propel, get Stamina, and you're golden.  Otherwise, I can't see grav dominator's working.

Honestly though, if it were me and I was thinking of resubbing to CoV again, I wouldn't hold myself to Dominators.  They may not be worthless, but there's more fun archetypes for me.  Any other villainous archetype is more fun from the getgo.  Masterminds especially, since they're nothing like any hero.

Quote from: Typhon
geldonyetich, I'd have to say I disagree.  It's a super hero game.  At some point, it supposed to be about kicking ass.  When classes don't kick enough ass, that's a problem.  (yes, I realize it's just my opinion, and is therefore no more valid then yours... I just like to read myself type)
I'm in agreement, really.  Kicking ass is important in a super hero game, and in many ways City of X delivers.  What I'm talking about is there being types of ass that are being kicked that may be hard to recognize.

Damagewise, Storm Defender is a pretty bad experience, I don't blame you for that, but just about every other archetype (even Controllers or Dark Defenders) kick volumes more ass.  However, if you look at Storm Defender in terms of debuffing, rendering foes down to being basically unable to land most of their attacks and attacking much slower than usual, then the Storm Defender is a severe ass kicker.  If you're in a situation where you've ample Blasters and Scrappers and people are dying, throw more blasters and Scrappers at it and the mob count goes up and people die even more.  Throw a Storm Defender in there and people stop dying - that's incredible ass kickery in action.

The trouble with Defenders in City of Heroes, though, is they're generally geared towards supporting a party and so don't make very good progess solo.  I'd say dark defenders are the main exception to this because they get that fuzzy pet of theirs.  Even then, I got a DD Defender to 20 once, and his damage rate (pre-pet) was so abysmal that I found him to solo as slowly as a Controller pre-pet.  Defenders are slow damage doers to the point of being group crippled for all but the most patient of players.  Bad design?  Possibly. 

It's pretty teling how many people like the Corruptor instead of the Defender.  Aside from a slightly different selection of power pools (damn, no Storm) and special ability (which is pretty weak for both archetypes) there's only one difference between the two: Corruptors got their nukes on their primary power set, at 100% effectiveness.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 07:08:22 PM by geldonyetich »

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Reply #34 on: October 02, 2006, 08:44:03 PM

I feel the need to reiterate- Dominators may not be the most powerful AT in the world, but I would hardly say they're "fucked" on all counts.  I can do quite well solo, in a team, or in PvP.  But it's a tricky class to play, and a lot of people suck at it.  A lot of people also skip their single target holds and pick up the AE immobilize cause they figure AE>Single Target.

Personally, I've found my Dominator to be more rewarding than any other AT I have.  I also have a Mastermind, Stalker, and Brute at levels where I can say I've seriously played them.  Even though my Mastermind is my highest level, if someone asked which class defines my ideal my answer would be Dominator.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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