Good Vs Evil Edition

[UnSub]

Since no-one else has put it here, Cryptic is putting CoH and CoV out in one box: Good Vs Evil Edition

For those who already have the game, you can pick up the extra trinkets on offer for $10 (free month not included).

[eldaec]

# Includes exclusive in-game bonus items!

    * Jump Jet Prestige Power
    * “Pocket D” VIP Card Teleport Power
 

Hmmm, I don't know exactly what these mean, but they sound a little better than 'a different visual effect for sprint'. Which is the traditional 'bonus' power.

EDIT: It turns out jump jet is form of super jump without the bonus to forward speed (you jump high but not forward very far), this makes superspeed, ahem, quite good. It also grants gives +flight-speed, +jump-speed, to all other travel powers. /grumble

[Llava]

Basically.

It's a little different than Superjump. It's a little different than flight.

It's kinda like a Superjump where you can "add height" at any point in the jump (even when you are falling back down) by pressing the spacebar. By itself its horizontal mobility is limited, but you do carry your forward momentum into your jump. This means that superspeeders will get a huge horizontal jump out of it.

It helps the other Travel Powers too, so it has a benefit even when you have another travel option:

Fly: Increases the speed of Flying
Superleap: Increases your Jump height and distance
Superspeed: Get the above mentioned horizontal jump
Teleport: You can use it to extend your "hover" time by hitting spacebar when you are falling.

Basically like a double jump.

Also:

It runs for 30 seconds, and has a base recharge time of 150 seconds. The inobvious caveat of "these numbers can change at any time" applies here too.

[Nebu]

Do either of those powers remove the grind after level 40?

[stray]

/golfclap

[Typhon]

Just ignore Stray. I noticed on the WoW boards that he's been cranky lately.  I thought your snarky comment was quite witty.

[stray]

Umm.....I thought it was funny too.

I was just waiting for someone to find an angle to mention the "grind". Nebu managed it. /golfclap

[Llava]

Be really nice if we could go one thread without it.

It's far from the worst in the MMO space.  Fuck, it's not even the worst with a forum on f13.

[schild]

Actually, it's not far from the worst. It is THE WORST. All those other games, not fun AND have a grind. With Coh, it's VERY FUN and has a MONSTER GRIND. "Here, you were having fun? Stand there while we pee on you." There's a reason grind is mentioned more often than anything else when it comes to the game... Because it fucking ruins it. Not mentioning it would be like a SWG thread without combat in it.

[ahoythematey]

Not mentioning it would be like a SWG thread without combat in it.

Funnily enough, there were a shitload of those kinds of threads when SWG was in developement.  At least up to the outcasting changes.  I didn't even bother caring about the game after that.

[Llava]

Actually, it's not far from the worst. It is THE WORST. All those other games, not fun AND have a grind. With Coh, it's VERY FUN and has a MONSTER GRIND. "Here, you were having fun? Stand there while we pee on you." There's a reason grind is mentioned more often than anything else when it comes to the game... Because it fucking ruins it. Not mentioning it would be like a SWG thread without combat in it.

I can agree that it's the only fun game with a grind as painful, yup.

But I still don't think it's the worst around.  Hell, factor in gold farming and you can argue that the WoW grind is worse.

[stray]

WoW grind is worse, yes, but WoW doesn't have the same potential for fun either (even in it's best moments). I'd rather be pissed at Cryptic for missing the mark than be pissed at Blizzard for intentionally shooting the opposite way.

[Tragny]

Not to derail or anything, but how much is the combo box going to run? I couldn't find the price in the above link. I've been tempted to try the game for a while, but just haven't gone and got it.

[Trippy]

Not to derail or anything, but how much is the combo box going to run? I couldn't find the price in the above link. I've been tempted to try the game for a while, but just haven't gone and got it.

Probably $29.99. They still aren't listing the price for some reason even though the package is going to be released on the 29th.

[Nebu]

Schild hit it on the head.  I am filled with bile over this game because it could be great were it not for a few small tweaks.  I resub to this mmog more than any other only to leave dejected because of the grind and the lack of mission variation. 

It came so close... SO CLOSE.

[Sky]

But gold farming in WoW is optional unless you're working in China or choose to partake in their raid crap. I played through to level 58 without gold farming except a quick bit for a horse, which was actually easy using the auction house. Of course, I only had a couple blue pieces of gear, but who gives a shit?

Grind in CoH is appalling, and I can't believe they don't lessen it. I couldn't stand the grind and quit at level 24, despite enjoying the game.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, the grind gets mentioned so much because it really is that bad. Were it not for the grind, I'd still be subbed. I kept my sub up for months even when I wasn't playing it because it was just so much fun. But the grind just got unacceptable. After the first 20 levels, it takes way too much time to get new powers or new ways to play the game.

[Glazius]

Actually, it's not far from the worst. It is THE WORST. All those other games, not fun AND have a grind. With Coh, it's VERY FUN and has a MONSTER GRIND. "Here, you were having fun? Stand there while we pee on you." There's a reason grind is mentioned more often than anything else when it comes to the game... Because it fucking ruins it. Not mentioning it would be like a SWG thread without combat in it.

Every time somebody says this, I feel like one of those people genetically incapable of processing certain smells. There's something out there, it's apparently blatantly obvious, but I'm completely oblivious to its existence.

It wouldn't grate so much, except for two things. First, this view of grind as an objective absolute. Second, this nagging feeling that even if I told people how much I liked the game nobody would believe me, because I can't perceive the grind.

--GF

[stray]

Mentioning the grind is an inevitability.

Calling Glazius a gibbering fanboi soon after that is an inevitability.

[geldonyetich]

Yeah, they need to cut the grind.  The way I see it, there's a historical precedence that lead to a logical fallacy that caused the current perdicament in CoH.  It goes something like this:

1) Back at beta/early release, players could take down mobs 8+ levels higher than them if they were good.
2) Couple of sobbich players exploited AOE DOTs and roots/snares that essentially immobilized targets and started taking down whole groups of 8+ level mobs by rooting them, dropping their DOTs, and runninga round the corner.  Repeat until level 50.  Within a week of release.
3) Developers panicked, made it so you can't even reliably HIT something 3+ levels higher than the player.
4) Developers kinda forgot to adjust the experience gain rate accordingly.

So yeah, you get up to about level 14-25 and your patience is already being tested, you're bored with the powers you've got, and the only way you can render satisfaction from the game is by rolling up a new hero so you can play with their powers.

[Nebu]

So yeah, you get up to about level 14-25 and your patience is already being tested, you're bored with the powers you've got, and the only way you can render satisfaction from the game is by rolling up a new hero so you can play with their powers.

You read my mind.  Thank you!

Character creation is almost more fun than playing... that's kind of an issue as well.

[HaemishM]

The first 15 levels, you are getting powers rapidly, and they often drastically change the way the game is played. After that, the time it takes to get a new power grows exponentially, but the content doesn't change except for the location and the skins. After a while, there's just not enough variety in the day to day game play to keep the game fresh.

[Typhon]

Umm.....I thought it was funny too.

I was just waiting for someone to find an angle to mention the "grind". Nebu managed it. /golfclap

dammit, I thougth /golfclap was mock approval!  what other web emote do I have wrong?!

[stray]

Hah. I probably had it wrong now that I think about it.

[Signe]

Internet n00bs!

[Llava]

It's mock approval, Stray was wrong.

I still don't think it's as bad as you all say.  Though I'm not in Glazius territory being unable to perceive it.  It's there, and it should be lessened, but it's not weighing on my mind every fucking second I'm playing.

[UnSub]

My only surprise is that we got this far without someone complaining about ED.

I also don't see the grind as being as bad as lots of posters seem to... and then I remember some of these same posters go on WoW raids all weekend.

YMMV, I guess.

[stray]

You've got me. What was ED?

[Trippy]

"Enhancement Diversification". It's where they put in a cliff after 3 SOs of the same type in a power.

[UnSub]

Enhancement Diversification. It came on the back of some combat changes and implemented a dimishing returns policy on enhancements past a certain level.

For instance, before ED Blasters would six slot for damage with single origin enhancements and get something like a 180% bonus to damage. Post ED, after you hit an 80% bonus on most enhancements (there are a couple of different categories with different limits) every additional enhancement's bonus is heavily penalised and I don't think you can get beyond about 100% bonus to damage anymore.

What this did was to pull back the capabilities of a number of powers, especially those that only allowed one type of enhancement into them (ie most Tanker defence powers). Players stopped being gods and some people have never forgiven Cryptic for the change... which happened 11 months or so ago.

[stray]

"Enhancement Diversification". It's where they put in a cliff after 3 SOs of the same type in a power.

Ah yes. Acronyms confuse me (almost as much as /emotes).

I had already given up on the game before that came out, but I was pretty much a "3 Acc + 3 Dmg" kind of player anyways.

Then again, I don't particularly care to force anyone to do that either.

[Trippy]

"Enhancement Diversification". It's where they put in a cliff after 3 SOs of the same type in a power.

Ah yes. Acronyms confuse me (almost as much as /emotes).

I had already given up on the game before that came out, but I was pretty much a "3 Acc + 3 Dmg" kind of player anyways.

Then again, I don't particularly care to force anyone to do that either.

Yeah as a Controller I generally have a mix of enchancements in my powers. However losing perma-Hasten was a huge nerf for me since that meant I no longer had "perma"-Phantom Army, and the second most annoying ED nerf was losing my 5 slotted Hover. 3 slotted Hover is just too fricking slow now.

[Nebu]

You know... in my field, ED means something very different.  I dare say it almost applies as well to CoH.

[HaemishM]

You know... in my field, ED means something very different.  I dare say it almost applies as well to CoH.

The results of both versions of ED are pretty much the same.

The difference between WoW's grind and CoH's grind, is that WoW has a pretty constant rate of leveling. Level 15-16 is about the same amount of time as level 27-28. In CoH, this is not the case. In CoH going from 27-28 is about the same as going from 15-18, just like every other MMOG out there. The higher level you get, the longer it takes to get to the next level.

[shiznitz]

Which means that since new powers are only granted every other level, it can take the equivalent grind from 15-20 to get a new power after 24.

Yes, we know this but it needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated. It is the single most obvious and easily corrected gameplay flaw in an MMOG today.