So. What's BioWare's MMO?

[Jade Falcon]

In this case with Bioware tho,wouldn't just the name Bioware be considered it's own IP?I've read all over the place how people will buy anything Bioware puts out,myself included,why spend a ton of cash on some outside IP when you can capitalise on the reputation the company itself already has amongst gamers?

[Riggswolfe]

Thanks for correcting him Rasix, saved me some typing. Righ, if you wish to hate on Whedon more power to you, but at least get your facts straight.

Facts? There are no facts here, just a bunch of wibbling from fanboys. None of us know if Wheldon's a shit to work with, or if he has unreasonable demands, or why Fox does what it does with shows. I was just putting a scenario out there, which is every bit as enlightened as your cough facts. Sci-Fi showed Dr Who out of sequence and at irregular slot. Perhaps they were trying to kill its audience. Fucking tin foil wearing loonies.

You needed to read your earlier post and Rasix's before replying.

Here is the relevant section of that earlier post.

As for Fox being out to get Firefly, you mean in the same way that all the concerned networks (WB, UPN, Fox) have had with Wheldon's series? The common factor seems to be Wheldon, don't you think?
 

Rasix replied to this and correctly pointed out you had your facts wrong. WB and UPN showed their respective Whedon shows in order on a decent night. (IE pretty much anything besides Friday or Saturday for most shows.) Fox as has been pointed out to you before gave Firefly the timeslot of death. Showed a series with an overarching plot out of order and preempted what episodes they did show several times.

Noone has said Fox deliberately set out to shitcan Firefly. People have only said that they pretty much gave it the worst possible situation and then canceled it when it didn't rise above that. Not an unreasonable statement.  Your problem is that your dislike for Whedon colors your views of any discussion of his programs and makes you prone to being irrational about it.

[Righ]

I don't even have a dislike for him (in fact I'm a Firefly fan myself), and I think that your recollection of UPN and WB's treatment of his series is rose tinted, but whatever. Do carry on.

[stray]

It was on Friday nights, which I don't give a dam if X-Files did well in it, is a shitty ass timeslot for a show aimed at a 20 - 30 year old crowd.

X-Files was on Sunday nights. It's the best timeslot there is.

X-Files started on Friday nights. It didn't do particularly well ratings wise but it did well enough to survive and eventually get moved to Sunday's (starting the 4th season I believe) where it turned into a big hit. Also Thursday's is the best night for television at least in terms on how much advertising revenue they rake in. It's no coincidence that the most watched regular series shows in recent history have been on Thursday's (ER, CSI, etc.).

Ah yes, that's right. Forgot about NBC "Must See Thursdays!!"  :-D

[Righ]

Is the percentage of Nielsen families with TiVo representative of the national average? How do you account for shows that have a higher incidence of DVR viewing due to the demographics of its market segment? It seems to me that with technology differentiators that are income, age and/or lifestyle dependent, you'd need to run multiple polls to generate meaningful viewing statistics. I bet they have to think about that sort of thrilling stuff for hours every day down at the Nielsen empire.

[Sky]

You'd think with digital distro becoming commonplace we could do away with the shitty Nielson system and just get the real raw data from everyone subscribed to cable. The cablecos would love it because it would generate $$$.

[Venkman]

You'd think with digital distro becoming commonplace we could do away with the shitty Nielson system and just get the real raw data from everyone subscribed to cable. The cablecos would love it because it would generate $$$.

There's still a place for Nielson though. Having access to all the answers doesn't mean you know the right questions to ask.

[Endie]

My guess? Some D&D license. Or maybe not.

That would be nice.  It would explain why D&DO had to go with that shitty Eberron vomit of an IP, if Bioware held some rights re Forgotten Realms, for instance.

But hey, I admit that building backstory behind speculation and playing "if this is true and if that is true then it must be the other" is just the sort of thing Eco called moronic logic.  I'll soon have linked Bioware to the templars and the holy grail.

[HaemishM]

I don't even have a dislike for him (in fact I'm a Firefly fan myself), and I think that your recollection of UPN and WB's treatment of his series is rose tinted, but whatever. Do carry on.

WB's treatment of Whedon was not so nice. Wasn't it after the 5th season that it switched to UPN (or was it vice versa) because whichever network it was on didn't want to pay as much for the show, despite it being a big hit? Whedon's shows have not been treated well, despite the ratings.

As for why DDO went with Eberron, I don't think it had anything to do with Bioware's rights to Forgotten Realms as much as WotC's desire to promote the Eberron campaign setting as the main D&D setting over the legacy settings like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk.

[Sky]

Iuz > robot pcs.

[Merusk]

As for why DDO went with Eberron, I don't think it had anything to do with Bioware's rights to Forgotten Realms as much as WotC's desire to promote the Eberron campaign setting as the main D&D setting over the legacy settings like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk.

Yep that's my thought, but also because you can't have Forgotten Realms without mentioning Elminster, Drizzt and several other iconic characters, right?  But each time you do, WOTC has to pay royalties to Greenwood, Salvatore and the other folks who retained the rights to their characters. Big Business today doesn't make those 'mistakes' on the bottom line.. so you have to go with the more contemporary setting or make less cash.  (Tho one shoudl question how MUCH less they could make.)

[Surlyboi]

Eberron, while cool conceptually is just not nearly as rich as a Forgotten Realms or a Greyhawk.

And actually, give me Greyhawk over FR any day too as FR has been done to death. I'd still like to mount an expedition to the Sea of Dust and points beyond though...

[Furiously]

Hasselhoff online....

Baywatch and Nighrider...

[Stormwaltz]

*holds a small, lonely torch for Spelljammer...*

[geldonyetich]

A Spelljammer MMORPG would be cool...

Not sure if it'd be as cool as, say, Shadowrun - but it'd be cool.

[Tairnyn]

Now that would be something. You can't go wrong with elves, space AND pirates.

[Endie]

A Spelljammer MMORPG would be cool...

Oh yes.  Amen and pass the Giant Space Hamsters. 

Not sure if it'd be as cool as, say, Shadowrun - but it'd be cool.

I like to think that all blue-sky scientific research - genetic engineering, point energy sources, paired particle communications, organic computing and the rest - are aimed at achieving that ultimate goal: a good Shadowrun MMO.  Not an actual realisation of such a cybernetic dystopia, you understand.  Just a decent MMO.

[geldonyetich]

Give the project to Irrational, Bioware, or Cryptic and we'd have a decent Shadowrun MMO.

Give the project to Blizzard and we'd have a Shadowrun MMO that everybody loves but is really just a slick implementation of old ideas.

Give the project to EA and it'd be developed for one year and then canceled.

Give the project to SOE and we'd have a MMO ruined by too much attention to customer feedback.

Give the project to Microsoft and we'd have a counterstrike clone.

[schild]

Give the project to Irrational, Bioware, or Cryptic and we'd have a decent Shadowrun MMO.

Give the project to Blizzard and we'd have a Shadowrun MMO that everybody loves but is really just a slick implementation of old ideas.

Give the project to EA and it'd be developed for one year and then canceled.

Give the project to SOE and we'd have a MMO ruined by too much attention to customer feedback.

Give the project to Microsoft and we'd have a counterstrike clone.

You're cute when you just say things.

With no filter.

All the time.

Like your silly WoW doom shit.

I am not sure why anyone thinks Shadowrun would actually make a good MMOG. To do it right would require a WoW-Sized budget and that's just not in the cards for something that could fail horribly - no matter who makes it.

[geldonyetich]

Your envy at my psychic hotline inspired writing style is palpable. 

When it comes to big development budgets being needed to make game properly, I tend to balk a bit.  I've seen some text-based telnet MU*s that have dynamite gameplay potential and probably cost the development team no more than time, a server box rental, and bandwidth fees. Multimillion dollar production values do not make a good game, but they do make for a overly complicated development process.  They up the ante.  If I see a fabulous light refraction off of the breasts of an elven street samerai, I'm thinking that time would have been better spent on developing a good game.  Robot Jesus had a small budget.  Remember that.

So there's where the belief on development team = all originates.  But, of course, my last message was really more tongue in cheek than meant to be taken literally.

[schild]

Your psychic hotline never worked, Ms. Cleo.

[geldonyetich]

If I have failed to see the future, it is only because I fell off the shoulders of giants.

[schild]

You failed to see the future because you're drowning in a bowl of fruit loops.

[DataGod]

You'd think with digital distro becoming commonplace we could do away with the shitty Nielson system and just get the real raw data from everyone subscribed to cable. The cablecos would love it because it would generate $$$.

There's still a place for Nielson though. Having access to all the answers doesn't mean you know the right questions to ask.

Right Questions > Lots of Data : can be overcome
Lots of Questions > No Data : just speculation, and educated guesses: harder to overcome

Right Questions + Data = Phat Lewt :)
 

[Morat20]

You'd think with digital distro becoming commonplace we could do away with the shitty Nielson system and just get the real raw data from everyone subscribed to cable. The cablecos would love it because it would generate $$$.

There's still a place for Nielson though. Having access to all the answers doesn't mean you know the right questions to ask.

Right Questions > Lots of Data : can be overcome
Lots of Questions > No Data : just speculation, and educated guesses: harder to overcome

Right Questions + Data = Phat Lewt :)

Right Questions + Too Much Data = Godawful hours spent preprocessing the stuff in order to get it small enough, yet representative enough, to mine it for useful information. I've got 2+ years of financial data (in five minute chunks, for God's sake) that I'm still trying to work out how to dice it up for training and test sets.

[geldonyetich]

If I was really concerned with people's assessment of my sanity, I wouldn't pretend I could see the future at all.

I like to think that, whether or not my WoW prediction turned out to be true, I at least base it on some relatively good premises.  That's all anyone can do.

[Venkman]

The problem is when the questions being asked are used to spin the datum politically. Rare is it that those who collect and siphon the data are also those executing against the findings. I hate how often research is abused for ones political (whether sociopolitical or just corporate middle-management) ambitions, but there it is.

[DataGod]

I am data neutral. My persoanl mantra: Dont ask me a question your really dont want an (possibly unpleasant) answer to.

M-

How many discreet data points in that data set of yours? if its less than say 15 you can aggregate it globally to generalized trends (in english: Stratify it)

So
data point (x) in quartiles
data point (y) in quartiles
data point (z) in quartiles

This way you can find the trending in the top quartiles across all data points when you compare them.

Just some thoughts, this is commonly done with large data sets for consumers and healthcare.

[Signe]

Are Geldon and Schild flirting?  Awww....   

[geldonyetich]

It was a narrowly avoided romantic entanglement, but it was enough to inspire gossip in the neighbors.

[Ironwood]

So, uh, what did you predict for WoW again ?

[Monika T'Sarn]

How about a Midkemia MMORPG ?
Popular, has been proven to work as game before ( Betrayal at Krondor). Its a well defined world. In the book its common for normal people to become heroes over time. Lots of wars going on.

[UnSub]

How about a Midkemia MMORPG ?
Popular, has been proven to work as game before ( Betrayal at Krondor). Its a well defined world. In the book its common for normal people to become heroes over time. Lots of wars going on.

First off, it's another medieval fantasy game, even if they allow for that pseudo-Japanese realm to be included.

Secondly, everyone would want to be descended from Pug or Tomas or whatever characters currently inhabit the world.

Thirdly, I loved "Magician" and the first few follow-ups, but the later books I read failed to keep the flame burning.

Finally, I don't think there are really enough fans to make it a valuable IP. Better to go with a Robert Jordan property.

No, wait... a Piers Anthony property. Hehehehe....

[Simond]

Discworld the MMOG.

[Sky]

SWGotOR.