Expantion to introduce Difficulty Slider for Instances?

[SurfD]

just posted on my guild forums:
http://www.worldofwar.net/articles/blizzeutour2007-2.php

Blizzard EU Press Tour July 2007

Many new instances designed top be 'winged' with several wings making up the instances, these can be comparted to the same setup as the Scarlet Monestery. This means shoerter play time for individual sections of the instance.

Instances will have different degrees of difficulties in the storyline, For example an instance could be an instance for 5 players around level 65, an instance for 5 players with level 70, to 10 men instance for level 70 and a Raid an instance for 40 people (also level 70).

A new feature is the difficulty settings and the group leader can select between five modes, of "easily" to "super+heavily". Loot is also variable depending on the degree of difficulty you underatle. The harder the difficulty, the better the loot.

The Blood Elf start zone is located to the north of the Eastern Plague Lands and is suitable for level 1 to 10 and level 10 to 20.

The Draenai start locatoin is not yet visible on the current maps but it lies on an island southwest of Darnassus.

There will be hundreds of new quests to take new characters through to level 60 and many of the new quests will be suitable for both of the two new races. Other races will also be able to pick up on these quests. Once you hit 60 its tome to head to the Dark Portal.

Beyond the Dark portal lies the Outlands, the new BC zone and it's heavily guarded and will be opened with a world event similar to Ahn Qiraj, in other words the Alliance and Horde will have to work together to open the portal.

The view on the other side of the portal is described as breathtaking with enornmous stone stairs that lead down onto the landscape below with two guards on the left and right of the staircase.

New controlable flying mounts are of course included in the expansion and these mounts will take you to areas that are unreachable on foot. This also includes new instances.

Socketable items compliment the new jewel crafting profession. Three sockets per item each of diderent colour and if you insert a jewel of the same colour as the socket you receive a further bonus to all items with the same colour

Each class receives five new Spells and abilities

60 talent points will be asigned with new talents as highlighted in the audio interview with Frank Pierce.

Whee, another new world event!

[Teleku]

Now, by 5 new spells and abilities, do they count adding in another rank of a spell, or do they actually mean 5 completly new spells and abilities.  Cause that would be pretty sweet.

[Righ]

Heh. Difficulty slider is something I've been asking for for a while - I'd much rather do tough as nails 5 man dungeons for good loot than stupidly boring raid herding. I assume the "whee" for the world event was sarcastic? That was the most frightening thing in there.  Lets hope the "many" in many new instances pans out.

[Ironwood]

Similarly, scaling instances (which is kinda what this is) is an idea I've been banging on about for ages too.

I want my five man MC with a chance for fiery cores to drop.

:)

[Merusk]

Considering the way they have it worded.. I expect that you're not going to get that.  "Better loot at higher difficulty" seems to indicate that a 5-man will still yield worse loot than a 10 man(rather than reducing the chance of drop.) and the best stuff will still come at a 40-man level.

[Descended]

Here is a link to a Lurkerlounge forums post which in turn links to and explains a more informative German news posting regarding instance difficulty options.  Basically, some instances might have a normal setting, for 61-63s, and a hard setting, for 70s.

[jpark]

Difficulty sliders are a Great idea.

I think for those that want better loot for runs that are not Raids - this is a feasible way to introduce it while not insulting the efforts others make to attend raids.

I am a raider.  But I am all for uber loots on 5 man runs - provided those 5 man runs - are fucking difficult.

[Ironwood]

Considering the way they have it worded.. I expect that you're not going to get that.  "Better loot at higher difficulty" seems to indicate that a 5-man will still yield worse loot than a 10 man(rather than reducing the chance of drop.) and the best stuff will still come at a 40-man level.

No, I totally get that.  It's still a step in the right direction.

[Rithrin]

I suppose it all comes down to how its implemented. DDO had a difficulty slider, all it did was increase the level of the mobs/traps. Hopefully for WoW they will have it change mob dynamics and spawns, not just level, hp, and damage.

[Paelos]

If they do the difficulty slider idea with new wings, it will finally implement the plan that both casual and raider groups have asked for regarding making all dungeons excessable and fair. I'm very much for it.

[Dren]

If they do the difficulty slider idea with new wings, it will finally implement the plan that both casual and raider groups have asked for regarding making all dungeons excessable and fair. I'm very much for it.

Sliders will be very much what we've been wanting if done right.  As Ironwood said, make it at least "possible" for small groups to get the high end stuff.  Having difficult 5-man instances would be very attractive to me.

[Ironwood]

Can someone PLEASE change the word 'expantion' in the subject ?

Avoid Snakes.

[Rodent]

So will it still be "Get phat loot but play with 20+ people in the raid you probably don't like" or "Play with 5-20 people you DO like but ha ha, rewards are ze crap"?

[Paelos]

So will it still be "Get phat loot but play with 20+ people in the raid you probably don't like" or "Play with 5-20 people you DO like but ha ha, rewards are ze crap"?

I'm guessing it's a little of both, but in this case the rewards are the same but scaled. So, you could run a dungeon like Molten Core with 5 men, but the bosses would only drop epics 5% of the time. Whereas if you ran it with 40 men, they drop 100% of the time. That would be my ideal goal really, where all dungeons were accessible by any size group, but the reward drop rates were scaled accordingly.

[Merusk]

That's the solution I'd love to see, too, but I fear it will be what Rodent has described.

40-mans get Tier 4 Loot  5 mans get Tier 1.  The hardk0r3 whiners would piss in the pool of the general forums too much if it were otherwise.

[dusematic]

Does anyone know when the explantion is coming out?

[bhodi]

No, I very much doubt that. That requires re-tooling the loot tables, one for each difficulty. They'll opt for the much easier re-tooling of the percentage drops becuase it's the easy way out.

Before you cheer about this, think it through. They don't want loot to flood the system, so they'll likely keep the payouts the same. so if MC takes 4 hours for most people, and you drop it to 2 hours, and drop the number of people from 40 to 10, that means you you'll only have 1/8th the amount of loot dropping, or one epic every two bosses or so. You'll still have to run it for just as long to complete your set, but you can do it in smaller chunks.

Expansion is supposedly october-ish. I'm guessing the explanation will be then, or near release/open beta-ish.

[Simond]

Does anyone know when the explantion is coming out?

Vivendi says Q4 2006.

[Jayce]

That's the solution I'd love to see, too, but I fear it will be what Rodent has described.

40-mans get Tier 4 Loot  5 mans get Tier 1.  The hardk0r3 whiners would piss in the pool of the general forums too much if it were otherwise.

Either way, there will be much whining.  Any group that gets a benefit is a relative nerf to everyone else, right?

[Kail]

40-mans get Tier 4 Loot  5 mans get Tier 1.  The hardk0r3 whiners would piss in the pool of the general forums too much if it were otherwise.

If I can do the next dungeon with the gear I get off of five man groups for my current dungeon, I'll be happy.  If it's less powerful than what the full raids get, that's fine with me, just as long as I can still get through these dungeons.

If I still need to do forty member raids to get the gear I need to advance, I don't see the point in the change.  I'd still need to join 40 man raid groups to have the gear I'd need to survive a casual group; kind of defeat the purpose.

[El Gallo]

I hope this doesn't result in less complicated encounters.  Having hard/medium/easy and 5/15/20/40 man options would be easy in a primitive EQ1 encounter.  Twin emps...hell, even Uldaman? Not so much.

[Dren]

Hey, I'm just asking them to do it right so that everyone can have fun all the time!

What?

[OcellotJenkins]

From curse-gaming:

Coilfang

This instance is the home of the nagas and Lady Vashj. It'll be located underground and the main theme will be the water. There will be platforms surrounded by water that announce epic battles which involve movement!

It will be composed of 5 wings, each one should be doable in one hour, two at a maximum. The monsters will evolve with the player levels. If the group is composed of level 62 players, the monsters will most likely be around 62. But if the group is 65 then the monsters will be stronger!

Arcane Doom

This instance, located in Terokhar Forest, is made of 4 Wings like Naxxramas. One will be filled with Demons, another with Draeneis, the other one with Corrupted Orcs, and we don't know about the last one. The instance will cover the level 60 to 70, one wing will be dedicated to the level 70 players. The main goal of this instance is to help the leveling, it will be like the Scarlet Monastery from the level 30 to 40.

Side note

    * With the expansion, each class will be rewarded with two more talents tiers (2 rows) per specialization.
    * The Burning Crusade will bring some new Battlegrounds and a Gladiator Arena. More to come on this later.
    * Blizzard hasn't begun development on any type of player housing.
    * Blizzard is working on a better character customization, which may be released with the expansion.
    * Blizzard said that the Burning Crusade will have shorter instances to keep groups entertained without having 40 players.

[Fabricated]

Also, dungeons scaling monsters to meet player levels happens to prevent twinking. No more having a level cap player or two stomp the shit out of an instance to get you shinies quicker.

[tkinnun0]

Automatic scaling also takes away one reason for levelling, namely to make a too difficult encounter easier.

Ooh, let me guess, scaling won't take into account items, so a group in full tier 3s will breeze through while a PUG in various greens and blues...

[Ironwood]

This all sounds like good news.

I'll be pleased if it happens.

[SurfD]

Automatic scaling also takes away one reason for levelling, namely to make a too difficult encounter easier.

Ooh, let me guess, scaling won't take into account items, so a group in full tier 3s will breeze through while a PUG in various greens and blues...

Hate to say it, but according to rumor Tier 2 / 3 / Nax / AQ 40 loot will only give you an "edge" up to around the level 65 or so mark, where upon, blues and greens are going to start dropping that are actually better then your "uber" purples.

Your MC / Bwl loot is going to become the new Strath / Scholo / UBRS loot once people start hitting the 67-70 range.

[Xanthippe]

Hate to say it, but according to rumor Tier 2 / 3 / Nax / AQ 40 loot will only give you an "edge" up to around the level 65 or so mark, where upon, blues and greens are going to start dropping that are actually better then your "uber" purples.

Your MC / Bwl loot is going to become the new Strath / Scholo / UBRS loot once people start hitting the 67-70 range.

Well, this fits in with my currently very lazy schedule for levelling up my priest.  She's 55 now, and a tailor, so looking at a lot of rep grind for patterns - oh - I guess patterns no one will want anyway.  Hmmm.  What will they do about that, I wonder.  More rep grinding for more patterns, no doubt.  I guess I'll run the instances necessary for the patterns (being the completist crafter that I am) but I sure wouldn't mind skipping 20 or 30 rounds of MC on her.

If that doesn't make sense, I blame my mild after-birthday hangover.

[caladein]

Automatic scaling also takes away one reason for levelling, namely to make a too difficult encounter easier.

Ooh, let me guess, scaling won't take into account items, so a group in full tier 3s will breeze through while a PUG in various greens and blues...

Hate to say it, but according to rumor Tier 2 / 3 / Nax / AQ 40 loot will only give you an "edge" up to around the level 65 or so mark, where upon, blues and greens are going to start dropping that are actually better then your "uber" purples.

Your MC / Bwl loot is going to become the new Strath / Scholo / UBRS loot once people start hitting the 67-70 range.

I worked on this a bit on my guild's forums a few months back (still need to add in the math I did for this) but, here's the germane stuff:

Unless they change the scaling (or completely rework Item Levels, which would make this discussion pointless), current T2 would be the equivalent of T1 for a level 70 (as in, just a tad better then level-70 requiring Epics). AQ40/Naxx stuff is still way, way, in the stratosphere when it comes to iLvl, so it'll still rock that 1% chance to drop Epic off of the boss of Random 5-Man Instance of Terror.

As an example: any Epic requiring level 62 or higher to wear (say, a random Epic world drop in Outland) would be better then the equivalent T1 piece. For Blues to start beating T1 though, you'd need iLvls of 87, thus requiring level 82 to wear. So, the majority of Superior drops from the level 70 5-mans will not beat even T1, not by a long shot.

[Merusk]

Which, again, is why I giggle madly at the folks who roll through my guild, act like asses until they get their T1 stuff and then /gquit to join their buddy's guild and be Mr. Uber w/ his Epics.   I don't miss them, but good luck rebuilding the bridge you burnt.

[Dren]

Well, this fits in with my currently very lazy schedule for levelling up my priest.  She's 55 now, and a tailor, so looking at a lot of rep grind for patterns - oh - I guess patterns no one will want anyway.  Hmmm.  What will they do about that, I wonder.  More rep grinding for more patterns, no doubt.  I guess I'll run the instances necessary for the patterns (being the completist crafter that I am) but I sure wouldn't mind skipping 20 or 30 rounds of MC on her.

If that doesn't make sense, I blame my mild after-birthday hangover.

I believe Blizzard has crafting in their game for those people that just like the pure act of crafting for crafting's sake.  There just is no market for crafted stuff unless it is used to craft something else.  Ok, potions/oils are the exception, but you know what I mean.  I'm partial to crafting, but without the marketing end of it, it seems flat to me.

Happy B-day btw.

[Velorath]

I worked on this a bit on my guild's forums a few months back (still need to add in the math I did for this) but, here's the germane stuff:

Unless they change the scaling (or completely rework Item Levels, which would make this discussion pointless), current T2 would be the equivalent of T1 for a level 70 (as in, just a tad better then level-70 requiring Epics). AQ40/Naxx stuff is still way, way, in the stratosphere when it comes to iLvl, so it'll still rock that 1% chance to drop Epic off of the boss of Random 5-Man Instance of Terror.

As an example: any Epic requiring level 62 or higher to wear (say, a random Epic world drop in Outland) would be better then the equivalent T1 piece. For Blues to start beating T1 though, you'd need iLvls of 87, thus requiring level 82 to wear. So, the majority of Superior drops from the level 70 5-mans will not beat even T1, not by a long shot.

I don't know about changing the scaling of levels, but they are adding all that socket/jewelcraft stuff in so that will probably change your calculations a bit.

[Xanthippe]

Actually, I sell a good deal of shadoweave (I make a set each day and sell most of it).  I used to sell a Robes of Arcana daily, but someone else wanted that market badly enough to undercut me (although shark that I am, I still check it from time to time).  I sell a Cindercloth Cloak about every day (which is good, I spent several hours farming that recipe).  I used to sell shirts (why doesn't Blizzard put in more shirts/dresses/fluff?).  My tailor doesn't have many of the high-end patterns, but my guess is that those aren't the money makers anyway.  Bags sell, and I can sell enough of them to sell them cheaply and still profit, assuming I hit the AH at the right time for cheap mats.

Consumables are always good, though. 

(and thank you.  I had a very nice birthday.)

[Merusk]

I used to sell shirts (why doesn't Blizzard put in more shirts/dresses/fluff?). 

They do, but they're just not common, and not always patterns.  The dresses/ pantsuits from that Elf Moon festival last year were the last patterns I can remember them adding, but you didn't need a tailor to get them, you could complete a quest and choose one.   The Valentine's dresses didn't even have a corresponding pattern.   I'm hoping the expansion will add more 'fluff' and not just focus on leveling and grinding-related items.

My tailor doesn't have many of the high-end patterns, but my guess is that those aren't the money makers anyway.  Bags sell, and I can sell enough of them to sell them cheaply and still profit, assuming I hit the AH at the right time for cheap mats.

Consumables are always good, though. 

Yeah you keep selling the cinderhide because of the Ony-scale cloaks, so they're like a consumable.  I can move a Bloodvine suit for a decent profit, but only if I'm the one who makes the mooncloth. (Meaning I don't do it often.)  The various specialty bags would probably move decently enough, but the patterns drop so infrequently it's maddening.

[Dren]

I recognize there is a market for some craftable stuff, but I always compare to my best experience with crafting, which was UO of course.  Obviously, the two games are completely different so there is no comparison, but that is where the expectation level is set.

I want to feel like anything I make is necessary to somebody and they are willing to pay a decent price for it.   I don't get that feeling from WoW.  Hopefully, they continue to improve upon that though.  It would really round out the game in my opinion.