Ultima X: Another one bites the dust...

[Signe]

Maybe we need a new forum named 'Undevelopment'.



"Dear Ultima X: Odyssey community members,

As of today, development on Ultima X: Odyssey has ended. We feel that Ultima Online is where we need to focus our online efforts and most of my team will be moving to the UO expansion pack, the UO live team, and an unannounced Ultima Online project. Development on UO will be greatly enhanced as we consolidate our resources behind that franchise.

This isn't an easy decision but it's the right move for the future of all things Ultima, including the community and the team.  We look forward to sharing our plans for the future of Ultima Online very soon.

I would like to thank all of the Ultima X: Odyssey supporters who have been with us from the beginning.  I hope you will continue to support the Ultima franchise and the development team as they transition to new projects.

Thank you,
David "InQWis" Yee
Producer, Ultima X: Odyssey"

[Snowspinner]

Wow. This must be the only game ever to be cancelled twice, no?

[Alkiera]

So, I know WoW is still in development, and EQ2, and Vanguard...  Are there any other in-dev mmogs that haven't been canceled yet?

The list is rapidly getting shorter.

--
Alkiera

[Rodent]

I was wondering how long they could keep developing a game where most of the dev team quit.

Can't say I feel any loss over this one.

[geldonyetich]

Crap!  I'll have to find another Avatar and desktop wallpaper now.

I have to boggle at the logical thinking behind this.

EA: "Hmm, UO's looking kinda dated, maybe we should make a sequal to UO."

Origin Devs: "Cool, okay... here we go... We'll call it Ultima Online 2.. or maybe Ultima Worlds Online... or maybe Ultima: Origin.  Ah, whatever, this'll be friggin' awesome, we haven't written a single line of code without 6 months of development work, we'll have motion captured kung fu moves, a really open ended advancement system with skill trees, we're asking player feedback on stratics about how to really create a "Thief-like" character amongst many other cool things, meer on bikini woman action, not to mention our bitchin' E3 video.   This game's an instant success!"

EA: "Oh, hey, we're canceling the project on account of how it competes with UO by being a sequal."

Origin Devs: "OMFG?! WE DEFICATE ALL OVER YOUR OFFICE AND LEAVE BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN LAID OFF!"

*** Time passes ***

EA: "Hmm, UO's looking really old -- those silly LTM spinoff sites are starting to call it `The corpse you wheel out into the living room'.    Maybe we should make a sequal to UO."

Origin Devs (what few are left): "Woah! Woah! We did that before but you said it was going to compete with the original Ultima Online so forget it!"

EA: "Heh! Don't worry, we'll not market it as a sequal to UO, we'll market it as the next game in the Ultima series."

Origin Devs: "Oh!  Okay, then we'll get to work on it for you... yes, we're going to put in the virtue system people are always bitching about... skipping trade skills and housing because frankly they're wastes of development time for serious gamers... got a bitchin' plot about how the Avatar and Guardian are fighting through the cosmos and the players are manifested in a world created from their struggle.... This game's an instant success!"

EA: "Oh, hey, we're canceling the project on account of how it competes with UO by being a sequal."

Origin Devs): "OMFG WTF! WHAT FEW OF US ARE LEFT ARE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING DEFICATING ALL OVER YOUR OFFICES BUT ARE GLAD YOU DID NOT CAN US THIS TIME SO WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT THIS IS A GREAT MOVE FOR ULTIMA?!"

EA: "Heh, I love screwing with their heads like that."

[Velorath]

So, I know WoW is still in development, and EQ2, and Vanguard...  Are there any other in-dev mmogs that haven't been canceled yet?

The list is rapidly getting shorter.

Potential cancelations as I see it:

MEO:  Vivendi is having slight legal problems at the moment, and as it is the game will probably come out too late to capitalize on much of the movies popularity, leaving rabid fans of the books as the primary audience.

Matrix Online:  They seem determined to get this game on the shelf, but they'd almost be better off changing the name from "The Matrix Online", to something like "That Game Based on Those Movies" in a last ditch effort to distance themselves from a sinking franchise.

Dragon Empires:  We all get their newsletters, but nobody reads them.  I almost wish someone had saved them all just so future generations can try to piece together just what the fuck these people have been doing for the past four or so years.

As far as already released games getting shutdown, I'd say Horizons and Sims Online (if only because EA is involved), are both potentials.

[Flashman]

So, I know WoW is still in development, and EQ2, and Vanguard...  Are there any other in-dev mmogs that haven't been canceled yet?

The list is rapidly getting shorter.

As far as already released games getting shutdown, I'd say Horizons and Sims Online (if only because EA is involved), are both potentials.

Might want to add Earth & Beyond on that list as well. Interesting discussion going on at TerraNova blog where some of the readers are digging into SEC filings, annual reports, etc. to find out how MMORPGs are actually doing.

"From EA Annual Report 10-K we have the revenues from subscription services ....a decrease in subscription net revenue from The Sims Online, Ultima Online, and Earth & Beyond TM subscription services...”

http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2004/06/count_em.html#comments

[stray]

So, I know WoW is still in development, and EQ2, and Vanguard...  Are there any other in-dev mmogs that haven't been canceled yet?

The list is rapidly getting shorter.

--
Alkiera

A few more to add:

Darkfall

D&D Online

Tabula Rasa

AC2 and Neocron should be gone by now. What it's take to sustain a game? I'd be surprised if those two had more than 10k subscriptions. Hell, even 5k.

[SirBruce]

Well, we had a suspicion this was coming.

The first blow came when an early beta didn't materialize.  After what we saw at the UXO event, a beta could have happened within 6 months.  But when it didn't materialize, the team was clearly behind.

The first real nail in the coffin was the closing of Origin studios.  It is not clear to me if they actually intended to cancel UXO at that time... I don't think so.  I think management truly felt that the team could be better managed in Redwood City.  What they didn't expect was over half of the development team, including most of the key players, declining to move.  Instead, they went to other studios or other companies.

The end signs were clear when there was no one talking about UXO at E3.  That meant no Christmas release, which meant they were so far behind schedule what with losing all those people...

I guess they looked at the numbers and decided that it would take too long to put together a new development team.  However, I can't help but think there was more to it, such as underlying technology issues or simply slow development.  Could it possibly be that EA saw UXO was being so badly mismanaged that that's why they closed Origin, knowing the project was irretrievable?  Get who they can to move, and then pull the plug on them again?  Who knows.

Ahh well.  Glad I didn't eBay my UXO stuff yet... it'll be worth a lot more know!  MUHAHAHAHA.

On a more serious note, my heart goes out to all of the original development team who got shafted, not once, but twice, in this fiasco.  And as for EA, fool me once (UO2), shame on you.  Fool me twice (UXO), shame on me.  I will never buy another Ultima title.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

AC2 and Neocron should be gone by now. What it's take to sustain a game? I'd be surprised if those two had more than 10k subscriptions. Hell, even 5k.

AC2 has well over 5K.  Neocron was under 5K last I heard (more like 3K).

Bruce

[Comstar]

THREE K? That's warbirds or aces high (or Jumpgate?)  figures.  But mabye as a FPS it can work at that level.

There will never be another Ultima game. The franchise is dead, but it still listsed somewhat as AFK.

I though E&B HAS been cancelled?


Prediction: This is the time of the great consoladtion. Games will die. Other games will never grow. Some tall ones will provide too much shade for other smaller games to get tall themselves.

A few years from now the'll be a bushfire, old trees will FIANNAY die and the'll be a researgence. Probaby from the creaters of Baldurs gate, after all, they did it with SINGLE player RPG's on the PC.

[Jain Zar]

Funny, but I thought Fallout was the saviour...  Well, it is for me and a bunch of people who become complete loonies at the mere mention of "Brotherhood of Steel"...

Too bad on UX though.  It would have been another game to add to my slowly growing collection of original boxed Ultima games.  Grew up on the series I did!

[Soukyan]

Earth and Beyond has been gone for some time now, but the doors haven't closed just yet:

2004-03-16 : Important Announcement
Earth & Beyond Says Goodbye

Starting September 22, 2004, Earth & Beyond will no longer be in service. After an amazing two years of galactic adventure, Electronic Arts has made the decision to close Earth & Beyond in order to focus resources on future games.

Please check your email associated with your Earth & Beyond game account for updates and more information on what this closure means to you. We hope you've enjoyed the game as much as we have and that we'll see you again in another great EA game!

For more information, please visit www.enb.com.

Thank you,

The Earth & Beyond Team

I'd like to see Tabula Rasa make it live and I'm hoping that Saga of Ryzom does, too, if only because I see that the devs over at Nevrax have put a ton of work into their game and at least have a beta process running. Back when I beta tested Black Moon Chronicles, I thought for sure it would release too and it didn't though, so anything's possible I guess.

Nobody has mentioned Wish. I think Wish is the next on the chopping block.

[Numtini]

I was about to say Wish. But that might be because I think it should be cancelled based on the first beta.

I'd say Matrix has a good chance of going down the rabbit hole.

E&B has already got a closing date and I think most people moved to Eve.

I think they'll keep AC2 going now that its in Turbine's hands. Turbine seems to have money to burn and it's their flagship franchise.

[Kenrick]

Not sure if anyone remembers, but the good folks at Origin were about to hire me as a GM when the bomb dropped that they were moving to Cali.  Obviously, EA wasn't about to let them hire me and move me to Cali with them before I even started.  Hence my current shit job.

Anyhow, one of my best friends was actually working as a level designer/artist for UX:O and was not extended an offer to move (ironically, his sister -- a GM -- was...) and has since moved to Boston to work for Turbine on D&D:O.  What I understand from him is that there is going to be a complete and utter graphical overhaul for UO.  I think I remember him saying that the were going to incorporate the Unreal engine.  At the time, it was to be overshadowed by the release of UX:O.  Now it looks like they have realized, "Hey, who the hell is going to buy this garbage?  Let's just make UO more shiney and try to sucker people into that!"

IMHO, this is a dead horse they just need to stop beating.  What they need to do with UO is just make it a NWN type deal with player-run servers.

[Signe]

I think Wish will probably disappear, also, and a lot of the others that people have mentioned here.  I'm not so sure about AC2, however.  Evidently they've whipped up an entire new crafting system that is rather complex and not unlike that of Horizons.  They've also hired a new Art Director and are looking for staff.  

I hope Ryzom does ok, too.  They really seem to be a nice bunch of people and very responsive to their supporters.  I was in beta early on but, unfortunately, was never able to wrap my head around that game.  I also had some connectivity issues that no one seemed to be able to solve, though they really, really tried.

I wonder about some of the other, less funded, games that are being developed.  Dark and Light, Darkfall, D&D online, Mourning...  will it all end in tears?

It's a pity, really.  I was looking forward to the mass of new games to be released over the next year or so.  I'm dreadfully tired of the ones we already have.  It looks like I'll have to be content to fiddle with WoW and EQ2 and, to be honest, neither one is exactly my cup of tea.  I doubt either will last very long with me.  Of course, I'm terribly fickle anyway.

[Snowspinner]

I will never buy another Ultima title.

It seems like this is an easy vow, what with the odds being against another Ultima title ever coming out.

[Alluvian]

I would be amazed and awed if anyone at this site was really surprised by this.  Especially after the E3 noshow.  But the confirmation is still newsworthy of course.  I can't say which is next, there are too many candidates to choose from.

Some in my old SWG guild are drooling over dark and light.  I keep telling them that the game will never come out.  They think I am insane.  "Of COURSE it will come out!  Look how much work they put into it!".  I just nod my head and smile.  Sure it MIGHT come out.  But odds are it won't.

[Sky]

You know, I've actually tried to play UO fairly recently, they've so utterly and completely ruined it, it's not even worth wasting time trying to learn.

I loved UO and I find it basically unplayable, and I was in the mood to sit and play UO! Good luck with that dead horse.

EA: Destroying development, one project at a time. Enjoy Madden 2005!

[Mi_Tes]

Games with potential for closing within a year:

AC2 (although like others have said, Turbine can keep pumping in money and it has gotten better)
Ryzom (still a chance to make it fun)
SB (low pops, but still making changes and UBI's best shot atm)
TR (started late with the press, but has Richard Garriot et all - perhaps using the COH approach)
D&DO (slow start, but seems Turbine has the money now - rabid fans)
Wish (2005 release date with point and click- will live content deliver?)
Horizons (everyone is watching this train wreck)
Eve (seems stuck)
MEO (Vivendi issues and a no show at E3)
Matrix Online (too many visions/management reduces the fun)
DE (nothing new)
Vanguard (the odds of lightning striking twice, add MS cancelling all other MMO's)
Imperator (bad concept, low interest)


Games closed:

UXO (EA as it's usual self)
Mythica (a great game and heartbroken at seeing MS beancounters make this decision)
True Fantasy Live Online (MS again)
Warhammer Online (to many hoops to jump - was going nowhere fast)
Earth & Beyond (more EA)

[Mesozoic]

I forgot about Imperator.  Boy are the tumbleweeds and cobwebs kicking some ass over there.

The latest news from Imperator Vault:

Network News -- EverQuest II Vault Opens!

woo!

From the Imperator site "Knowledgebase":

There is no information currently available for the knowledgebase. Please continue to check the site for frequent updates on the Imperator concepts and design.

Frequent?  Well lets see...the latest news item is a letter from Mark Jacobs dated...April 30.  It promises that

There will be a lot more to see starting in the middle of May.

This May?  Cause its..ya know...July now.

Kinda sad to watch fans make desktops out of circa 2002 concept art.

[schild]

Without Garriot Ultima X was guaranteed to be canceled.

[HaemishM]

Color me unsurprised.

It's fucking EA Online. They could have a game in development that has been focus-group tested to cause instantaneous orgasm followed by multi-account addiction, and they'd still fuck it up.

EDIT:

I will never buy another Ultima title.

That's good, because there will never BE another Ultima title, unless you are talking about expansions. I don't think they count, since that's just putting more pancake makeup on the rotted corpse and trotting her out for her 17th wake.

[schild]

They could have a game in development that has been focus-group tested to cause instantaneous orgasm followed by multi-account addiction

Magic: The Gathering Online? Up to Date, pretty, FUN, and none of that fat geek cheetoh and mountain dew smell from tournaments.

And they'd still fuck it up.

That will be $3.69 for 15 cards, 12 of which suck. Drive thru, plzkthx.

My ass still hurts.

[Furiously]

That's good, because there will never BE another Ultima title, unless you are talking about expansions. I don't think they count, since that's just putting more pancake makeup on the rotted corpse and trotting her out for her 17th wake.

For some reason this song just popped into my mind.

I put my hand upon her toe
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her toe
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her toe,
she said hey Iggy you're way to low.

Chorus

I put my hand upon her knee
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her knee
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her knee,
she said hey Iggy you're kiddin' me

Chorus

I put my hand upon her thigh
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her thigh
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her thigh,
she said hey Iggy you're way to shy

Chorus

I put my hand upon her tit
ya ho ya
I put my hand upon her tit
ya ho ya
I put my hand upon her tit
she said, "hey Iggy, you're getting it"

Chorus

I put my hand upon her twat
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her twat
ya ho, ya ho
I put my hand upon her twat,
she said hey Iggy you hit the spot

Chorus

I put my dick into her mouth
yo ho, yo ho,
I put my dick into her mouth
yo ho, yo ho,
I put my dick into her mouth,
She said mmm, mhmh, mhmhm...

Chorus

I put her in a wooden box
ya ho, ya ho
I put her in a wooden box
ya ho, ya ho
I put her in a wooden box,
from havin' too many cocks

Chorus

I dig her up every now and then
ya ho, ya ho
I dig her up every now and then
ya ho, ya ho
I dig her up every now and then,
she did me before she'll do me again

[RipSnort]

Did Dark 'n Light get cancelled? I don't see any mention of that one in the thread.

[Mi_Tes]

Did Dark 'n Light get cancelled? I don't see any mention of that one in the thread.

Not yet, and neither has Darkfall.

[Dark Vengeance]

Without Garriot Ultima X was guaranteed to be canceled.

That guarantee seems kind of silly since UXO was green-lighted long after RG left OSI. He left just after they cancelled UWOO, and Calandryll didn't start work on his "secret project" for quite some time afterward.

If the release of a new Ultima title was wholly dependent on RG's involvement, UXO never would have been green-lighted in the first place.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

[Signe]

DnL hasn't been cancelled... yet.  We are just being our usual pessimistic selves here at f13.  I suppose because there are some here that have pretty solid knowledge of the business side (NOT ME!), they can guess the outcome... sometimes with uncanny accuracy.  

There does seem to be a bit of a trend, doesn't there?  I'm sure it has a little to do with what looks like a glut of MMOGs being developed.  The communities for  these games without huge financial backing, seem rather small.  Rubies of Eventide had a small community and once it was released, it seemed to get even smaller.  

The anticipation for a lot of these games is wearying.  I still get the newsletters, like everyone else, for DE and a couple of others.  It's just about the only way I know that they're still working on them.  The forums have small bits of info, but it mostly seems to be aimless wibble... even from the staff.  No one wants to commit to a date for beta... they don't even indicate the month or the quarter.  Some sites still have incredibly old information... such as DnL, which states the beta will start in Sept., 2003.  Well, it didn't... did it?  I've found old, useless information on a lot of sites.  It's not especially reassuring.

[Joe]

Without Garriot Ultima X was guaranteed to be canceled.

That guarantee seems kind of silly since UXO was green-lighted long after RG left OSI. He left just after they cancelled UWOO, and Calandryll didn't start work on his "secret project" for quite some time afterward.

If the release of a new Ultima title was wholly dependent on RG's involvement, UXO never would have been green-lighted in the first place.

I'm pretty sure he was inferring an Ultima game without Garriott at the wheel is kinda like Playboy without Hugh Hefner. Sure, people can try, but it's never going to really cut the mustard.

[Dark Vengeance]

Given the changes to UO after RG's departure, I'd be inclined to agree with that. Although I don't see the execs at EA discarding the franchise completely....they'll find other ways to whore it out for profit one way or another.

Bring the noise.
Cheers...........

[SurfD]

AC2 (although like others have said, Turbine can keep pumping in money and it has gotten better)

Out of curiosity, I played during beta, and found the game very pretty, but rather uninvolving. (especialy compared to all the shit you could do in the first one)

I must ask, though: Did they finally patch in buildings you can actually ENTER?  The whole idea of there being all these buildings all over the place, and not a single one having an interior just killed it for me.

[SirBruce]

I can't answer your question, but I will say the charge that there were NO buildings you could enter is an exagerration.  There were a few, but they were rare and for the most part in remote areas.  There wasn't anything particularly interesting to see in them anyway.

Bruce

[Signe]

Now, now... the people who post here, for the most part, are already jaded, opinionated and cranky.  Let's not add pedantic to the list, Bruce!

[Trippy]

Games with potential for closing within a year:

[...snip...]

Add There to that list. They stopped updating the code at the end of May. The game is basically on life support now.