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Author
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Topic: Patch 1.12 - World pvp (Read 18546 times)
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Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978
~Living the Dream~
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Just when I thought I couldn't be less interested in PVP servers.
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"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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Chenghiz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 868
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Well, it'll be interesting to see what they do.
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Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608
Hellfire Games
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Just as a data point, WoW's developers REALLY liked DAOC RVR. To the point that Bill Roper (when he still was at Blizzard) called Mark Jacobs frequently to complain about his thane. Not sure how relevant that is though since they've had a lot of turnover since launch.
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Xerapis
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Well, hope springs eternal.
They could be doing all kinds of complicated stuff.
They could just roll us back to the old days of TM/SS battles that littered a huge swatch of the map with corpses and skeletons.
Or they'll fuck it up horribly and the new system will cause additional stress on the new server hardware and bring back the Glorious Age of the Q.
Hehe....
Actually, I am really looking forward to hearing about this. Even more so given Lum's recent addition to our discussion.
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..I want to see gamma rays. I want to hear x-rays. I want to...smell dark matter...and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me...
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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Wasn't the Thane one of the Zomgwtfpwn classes in DAOC? If so that'd explain the blind spot for Shaman in PvP.  I expect another broken system that they'll 'improve' with a revamp and multiple nerfs/ patches and an expansion 18 months later. Really, if you're looking for anything more meaningful than a few killsefs sessions, WoW PvP is horribly broken. Not that it isn't fun, it just gets stale really quick.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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squirrel
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Wasn't the Thane one of the Zomgwtfpwn classes in DAOC?
Nope. The Thane was pretty gimp. For a long time anyway, dunno if they buffed it up later. Think offensive melee/caster hybrid with weak melee and lousy damage spells. Joy.
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Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
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Xerapis
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Now, if they had referenced early smite priest ~shudder~
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..I want to see gamma rays. I want to hear x-rays. I want to...smell dark matter...and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me...
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Simond
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6742
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Wasn't the Thane one of the Zomgwtfpwn classes in DAOC?
Nope. The Thane was pretty gimp. For a long time anyway, dunno if they buffed it up later. Think offensive melee/caster hybrid with weak melee and lousy damage spells. Joy. Thank you for finally helping me figure out what WoW shaman feel similar to.
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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caladein
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3174
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From the Under Development page (hasn't been updated since 1.11 came out I think): World PvP
While the Battlegrounds are about to receive a major upgrade of their own, players interested in World PvP will be glad to hear that patch 1.12 will introduce a brand-new type of PvP content to the game. The stage is set for intense, objective-based land battles as Horde and Alliance vie for control over important strategic positions and resources around Azeroth. Stay tuned for more news about these new world PvP enhancements coming to World of Warcraft. Well, it could blow horribly, but it sounds kinda cool (especially with all the DAoC vibes coming of it). If it blows, at least the BG queues will be shorter  .
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"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." - Ingmar"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" - tgr
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Velorath
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To me it all depends on how they handle population imbalance. If World PVP ends up being all about who has more numbers I'd just as soon stick to the BG's.
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tazelbain
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6603
tazelbain
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To me it all depends on how they handle population imbalance. If World PVP ends up being all about who has more numbers I'd just as soon stick to the BG's.
It always is.
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"Me am play gods"
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Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608
Hellfire Games
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Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9171
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My guess is they are going to plop down a tower or something similar in contested zones that you can take over for a small bonus. My guess is higher exp in that particular zone, which will make them fairly meaningless before the expansion.
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I am the .00000001428%
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tazelbain
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6603
tazelbain
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Real life isn't necessarily fun either. Midnight raids work well in real life also. But absolutely suck in games just like losing to overwhelming numbers.
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« Last Edit: July 05, 2006, 02:17:44 PM by tazelbain »
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"Me am play gods"
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Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608
Hellfire Games
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Just pointing out that without attention to this in advance, players will inevitably use the same sort of "exploits" military forces use in RL.
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tazelbain
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6603
tazelbain
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No worries, we'll just assume you are genius of game design until your first game goes out. Then, we'll string you up.
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"Me am play gods"
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Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608
Hellfire Games
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Why wait? Avoid the rush!
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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It's much more fun to hang a man with the rope he provides, than to hunt him down and use other people's. :-D
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Righ
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6542
Teaching the world Google-fu one broken dream at a time.
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It is the rule in war, if our forces are ten to the enemy's one, to surround him; if five to one, to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army into two. If equally matched, we can offer battle; if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy; if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him. Hence, though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.
The only part that Sun Tzu left out was going to the forums after the battle and bitching about Zerg tactics.
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The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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This thread is full of wisdom and wit in equal measures.
And I think that no matter what they do the world pvp will suck.
Can someone who's, er, played the game please enlighten me about DAoC ?
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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squirrel
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This thread is full of wisdom and wit in equal measures.
And I think that no matter what they do the world pvp will suck.
Can someone who's, er, played the game please enlighten me about DAoC ?
DAoC has possibly the best PvP of any MMORPG i've played (including SB due to that games instability and exploits). Basically the game has a PvE realm that you level up in and there are several Battlegrounds for PvP exposure as you level towards the cap (level 50). After the cap the PvP (called RvR - realm vs. realm) takes place in the Frontiers - an area that all 3 realms have access to. The 'goal' of RvR is to capture towers that then allow you to capture keeps that are throughout the frontier belonging to each realm. As you capture enemy keeps you eventually have the ability to capture relics that are in more fortified structures. These relics add bonuses to all players in your realm (+ spell damage or + melee damage depending). The keep sieges include Catapults, Rams, Trebuchets and Boiling oil to blow holes in the walls or smash down the doors. Large battles were pretty common last i played. Characters earn Realm Ranks through PvP that give them additional abiltiies. Downsides: Limited population now from what i hear - lots of servers had to be clustered to keep the populations up. Class balance - it was never a well balanced game and from what i hear it's gotten worse, particularly for melee characters Grind - getting to the level cap is pretty painful, although some changes were made to speed it up (instanced task dungeons that give good xp). There are servers that have an expansion called Trials of Antlantis disabled. These would be the place to play as ToA was a MASSIVE PvE grind - think having to run MC, BWL and ZG20 x 100. It was a pretty good game to be honest, i only left cause all the people i played with did and i didn't have the energy to reroll.
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Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
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Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613
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DAoC has possibly the best PvP of any MMORPG i've played (including SB due to that games instability and exploits). Basically the game has a PvE realm that you level up in and there are several Battlegrounds for PvP exposure as you level towards the cap (level 50). After the cap the PvP (called RvR - realm vs. realm) takes place in the Frontiers - an area that all 3 realms have access to. The 'goal' of RvR is to capture towers that then allow you to capture keeps that are throughout the frontier belonging to each realm. As you capture enemy keeps you eventually have the ability to capture relics that are in more fortified structures. These relics add bonuses to all players in your realm (+ spell damage or + melee damage depending). The keep sieges include Catapults, Rams, Trebuchets and Boiling oil to blow holes in the walls or smash down the doors. Large battles were pretty common last i played. Characters earn Realm Ranks through PvP that give them additional abiltiies.
Downsides:
Limited population now from what i hear - lots of servers had to be clustered to keep the populations up. Class balance - it was never a well balanced game and from what i hear it's gotten worse, particularly for melee characters Grind - getting to the level cap is pretty painful, although some changes were made to speed it up (instanced task dungeons that give good xp). There are servers that have an expansion called Trials of Antlantis disabled. These would be the place to play as ToA was a MASSIVE PvE grind - think having to run MC, BWL and ZG20 x 100.
It was a pretty good game to be honest, i only left cause all the people i played with did and i didn't have the energy to reroll.
If you have 8 people that regularly play together, DAoC is the best PvP mmog to date. I've played them all and nothing seems to match the scale and level of strategy that a good 8v8 brings. Even GW, a game built for skirmishes, cannot compare in detail and complexity to DAoC. Now, if you don't have 8 people that play regularly, be prepared for frustration and anguish the likes you rarely see. It is for this reason that many people fail to recognize the subtleties and complexity in the game. I think this was the biggest turnoff (for me) about WoW. The fun was in the trip to the endgame and not the endgame itself. Different strokes I guess.
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"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."
- Mark Twain
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Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779
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I enjoyed the RvR more with the old frontiers, which weren't as big, and taking a keep was just taking a keep - no towers, just a keep. The door could be fortified but that was about it. I mean, after 2 hours a siege gets pretty boring.
But the whole Emain thing, I stayed away from (many people would go to rvr in Emain, the Hibernian frontier, to farm points so it was a constant battle). On my server, the Mids defended their frontier for the most part, and often went to other frontiers to attack. My guild was a defense guild. It was fun, especially before my cave shaman was nerfed into unfun. Then it wasn't fun, and I went to play in the little battlegrounds for the remainder of my time on DAOC, pretty much.
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Chenghiz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 868
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Was it here that someone suggested they just increase the amount of honor you get for kills outside BGs? I think the idea has merit.
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HRose
I'm Special
Posts: 1205
VIKLAS!
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Agreed. Mine still better :) Btw, summary: The new world PvP content will take place in Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands, although it may eventually branch out to other areas.
In Silithus, the objective revolves around collecting dust, called "silithyst," and players will activate the geysers to collect the silithysts. You get a nice "buff" (stat boost) when you turn in the resources, but you'll be flagged as a PvP player as soon as you pick the stuff up, making you attackable by anyone in the opposing faction while you attempt to make your way back the Field Duty camps associated with the Cenarion Hold faction quests. If you manage to turn in enough of the dust, all of your fellow faction members in the zone will gain a buff as well, including those in the "AQ20" Ahn'Qiraj dungeon.
Eastern Plaguelands. There are several towers in this zone, already standing, that will be converted to captureable bases. You'll need to control and defend each tower, and the faction who possesses all four will gain zone-wide benefits like in Silithus.
Increased damage against the many undead creatures there (and in Stratholme).
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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Complete and utter shit, and a wonderful grief tool.
Gather-up the required number of mats, arrange with the Horde-guild that all the Alliance in Sillithus will be flagged at X time.. and POOF, enjoy the slaughter! What the fuck happened to consentual PVP, dum dums?
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817
No lie.
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I can't wait to run the PvP gauntlet just trying to make it to zone-in on raid time.
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Valmorian
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1163
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Complete and utter shit, and a wonderful grief tool.
Gather-up the required number of mats, arrange with the Horde-guild that all the Alliance in Sillithus will be flagged at X time.. and POOF, enjoy the slaughter! What the fuck happened to consentual PVP, dum dums?
That's not what I got from the article. It seemed to imply that the one picking up the dust would be flagged, but I don't see anything in there that states that ALL players of your faction would be flagged.
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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You missed it then. It says if you turn-in enough it will buff & flag all members of your faction that are in the zone. (Silithus only.) ...stuff up, making you attackable by anyone in the opposing faction while you attempt to make your way back the Field Duty camps associated with the Cenarion Hold faction quests. If you manage to turn in enough of the dust, all of your fellow faction members in the zone will gain a buff as well, including those in the "AQ20" Ahn'Qiraj dungeon
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Righ
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6542
Teaching the world Google-fu one broken dream at a time.
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I think you read the 'flag' part in your paranoia. They said that it will buff all faction members, not flag them. If the sky is falling, its because they keep adding more content to a couple of already overcrowded zones. The bulk of a server population tends to be level 60 and already farming those places.
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The camera adds a thousand barrels. - Steven Colbert
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Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
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That'll be good if it's the case, but the way the article's written it makes it seem otherwise. Particularly when they throw this line in at the end: Also, unlike Silithus, there is no automatic PvP flagging.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Simond
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6742
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That's probably meant to be read as something like: 'Just walking into one of the EPL towers won't flag you - you'll need to engage in PvP in the usual way (unlike Silithis where picking up the bug powder dust flags you)"
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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AcidCat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 919
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So, world pvp is going to come back strong because players can earn a .. buff??! What a mindblowing concept. Am I missing something here? Because that is retarded.
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