SOE to Publish Vanguard

[DataGod]

um wow....you know your bad when you cant get billing right....

[Signe]

They did mention on their website that they would accomodate personal cheques.   

[Venkman]

Sounds like a case of integrating legacy game code within a brand new billing system. How many partners has Horizons had now? Three? That's three different infrastructures they've had to recode Horizons to work with. And that's a lot harder than wrapping some DRM around a casual online game.

[damijin]

Sounds like a case of integrating legacy game code within a brand new billing system. How many partners has Horizons had now? Three? That's three different infrastructures they've had to recode Horizons to work with. And that's a lot harder than wrapping some DRM around a casual online game.

you think you can just show up here and make rational arguments?

[waylander]

LOL no one here truly believes this game is gonna make it right? If it does it will just be robbing peter to pay paul by cannibalizing SOE's existing player base, but I don't think its going to draw in many new folks.

[HaemishM]

They did mention on their website that they would accomodate personal cheques.   

I wonder if they'd accept some sheckles. Or a few chickens too. Maybe someone can trade them 2 camels for a year's sub.

[Venkman]

you think you can just show up here and make rational arguments?

It was my turn.

[hal]

A for effort, C for execution.

[Venkman]

A for effort, C for execution.

Better than my average :) I'm not good with pithy comebacks.

[Simond]

Vanguard preorder stuff.
Somehow fitting that it was announced on Friday the 13th.

Edit: Bonus stupidity from the VG boards - "Wait, you're telling me that non-instanced dungeons with static spawns in an EQ-like game means I'll have to camp for loot?!? ZOMG fix this Brad!"

[Triforcer]

Vanguard preorder stuff.
Somehow fitting that it was announced on Friday the 13th.

Edit: Bonus stupidity from the VG boards - "Wait, you're telling me that non-instanced dungeons with static spawns in an EQ-like game means I'll have to camp for loot?!? ZOMG fix this Brad!"

Actually, I think there is a good chance they'll have the dungeon all to themselves, whenever they want it 

[Modern Angel]

That post makes me so, so happy for all the wrong reasons. HEY DAD! I'M REALLY NOT A FAILURE! THAT GUY IS!

[Nebu]

Hurray! Im glad we can camp rare spawns if we want to. It just give you another choice of gameplay.

That was a REAL post on the linked thread.  Have people forgotten that GAMES were supposed to be FUN?

[stray]

It's why I don't call them gamers. Their desires and activities just don't fit the profile.

They're not even a "different type" of gamer. They're an entirely different species --- Valid in their own right.....But just not gamers.

[Lantyssa]

Would buying multiple collector's editions to sell much later be a wise investment decision?

[LC]

Would buying multiple collector's editions to sell much later be a wise investment decision?

Maybe if you thought pets.com was a good investment.

[schild]

I'm buying Burning Crusade CE to sell with my regular CE. That's a wise investment decision. I'd say I can probably get $300-$400 for it if not more. <}^_^<}  {>^_^{> <}^_^<}  {>^_^{> <}^_^<}  {>^_^{> <}^_^<}  {>^_^{>

[tazelbain]

Vanguard is the new ram doubler.

[Big Gulp]

Maybe if you thought pets.com was a good investment.

Sure, the stock's been depressed for a while, but the market tends to have peaks and valleys.  Just you wait, I'll be swimming in cash once this internet thing picks up.

[Signe]

Don't count on it.  This internet thingy is just a fad.  Like beanie caps or Asian people.  It won't last.

[LC]

WTS: Slightly used copy of Asheron's Call 2

[Signe]

WTS: Slightly used copy of Asheron's Call 2

They have two copies on the shelf at our local EB.  Dumbasses.

[Sky]

Yeah, dumb internet newb. Like Siggie says, it's a fad. It's all about single-player pc games.

So I'll start taking bids on my copy of Descent to Undermountain!

[Nebu]

I got a secret glimpse at the Special Edition Vanguard Box Set.  Now I know why it's so expensive.

[Driakos]

I got a secret glimpse at the Special Edition Vanguard Box Set.  Now I know why it's so expensive.

Turn it off! *cough* Turn it off.

[HaemishM]

Hurray! Im glad we can camp rare spawns if we want to. It just give you another choice of gameplay.

That was a REAL post on the linked thread.  Have people forgotten that GAMES were supposed to be FUN?

Another good quote:

There is a difference between camping a mob for a quest and camping a mob for an item.

The first is bad, the second is acceptable, because you don't really need the item.

No, really there isn't a difference. It's all camping, it's all stupid as fuck. And it's all punitive, cockblocking "gameplay." Or notplay as it should be called.

[Sky]

That was maybe the worst part of many bad gameplay systems in EQ (others being downtime, boat travel, etc). Camping.

I remember camping in Guk, which was actually one of my favorite dungeons. My buddy (the eqholic) and I made it fun, but it was a gruesome camp. I forget the mob name, the scholar or something, had a nice +int hat. The dungeon was a half-hour timer, with the scribe (? whatever) being a rare spawn. So you could go four hours and only see him once. And on top of that, it was his rare drop, so you might need to wait four spawns, sixteen hours, just to see the stupid thing.

Just a shitty content cockblock and indicative of shitty game design.

[Venkman]

Camps suck. I much prefer triggers, like those Silithus elemental demons, or the auto-popping bosses in instances. Make it a challenge of game play to get to the bosses, not time.

Luckily most developers have learned this lesson. The rest just lose subscribers until they hit their actual market share (not the bloated one they used to convince management/VC).

[Margalis]

In theory the idea of really rare items or creatures is cool. You might see one then not see one again for a few months. Pretty neat.

The problem is that rare creatures all spawn on timers in the same area and you just learn where they are. It is neat for a random newb but totally abusable. The fact that you know exactly where and when they spawn makes them not exotic at all.

One simple thing games could do is make the spawn areas much much larger. Like an entire zone in size. That way you really can't try to camp one. (Unless you are a crazy glutton for punishment)

Make them spawn much quicker but over a much wider area. That increases the chance of Joe Newb running into one randomly and lessens the chance of Joe Hardcore camping it.

[Merusk]

In theory the idea of really rare items or creatures is cool. You might see one then not see one again for a few months. Pretty neat.

The problem is that rare creatures all spawn on timers in the same area and you just learn where they are. It is neat for a random newb but totally abusable. The fact that you know exactly where and when they spawn makes them not exotic at all.

One simple thing games could do is make the spawn areas much much larger. Like an entire zone in size. That way you really can't try to camp one. (Unless you are a crazy glutton for punishment)

Make them spawn much quicker but over a much wider area. That increases the chance of Joe Newb running into one randomly and lessens the chance of Joe Hardcore camping it.

EQ tried this in one of the Kunark zones.  I forget the name now, but people still found the spawn cycle and camped it.

Fuck.. they even camped the AC in South Ro, which had NO spawn cycle.  Just kill everything until it pops, and make sure you have a tracker.

People who want to camp, will camp.  Trying to beat a player's tenacity through any kind of crazy mechanics is doomed to failure.  No matter how many HP, no matter how long the spawn, no matter how irregular the pattern, SOMEONE will kill/ time/ camp it.

Hell, there was an EQ guild that killed the guy who gave the Paladin epic quest in the Plane of Sky just because they felt like it.  The guy had a few hundred thousand HP and all your hits were reduced to 1.  Yet they stood there for hours, rotating healers until he died.

[Falconeer]

In theory the idea of really rare items or creatures is cool. You might see one then not see one again for a few months. Pretty neat.

[...]

Make them spawn much quicker but over a much wider area. That increases the chance of Joe Newb running into one randomly and lessens the chance of Joe Hardcore camping it.

Agreed.
I love the total randomness of certain things, no matter the rarity. Like the Zariche Demonic Sword of Lineage 2. Total random one-in-the-world spawn, even in newbie areas (just

What's the point of a rare spawn if it spawns exactly every 7 days with just a 6 hour variable range, as it is now for contested epic mobs in EQ2 for example?

[Soln]

FoH Poll


Follow up by the gentleman:

Seriosly, while gameplay advancement at mid to higher levels isn't as fast as WoW, it isn't that slow either, and we've created a world with so much more freedom -- different paths of advancement, ways to keep your group together including offline travel with our Caravan system, an advanced LFG system that looks for people with common interests so hopefully that pick up group turns into a regular group of friends, and such a vast, but still varied and interesting seamless world to explore, while you like won't hit max level as fast, you'll be doing so many other things, your overall days played will be longer, but they shouldn't feel like a timesink.

No, we're not perfect, and there will be some grind (just as there is in WoW), but we went into this project (almost 4.5 years ago now) planning on how to minimize the grind, make adventuring fun, make traveling meaningful and fun, and bringing back the 'doing of dungeons' with out encounter routes and non-instanced worlds.

Vanguard may not be for everyone, but I think to a great many it will be a breath of fresh air. The timesink and the grind is our enemy every bit as it is yours and we are comitted to stomping it out as much as possible, and we'll only get better and better

He's persistent, you've got to give him that.

[Sky]

Offline travel sounds like fun!

[shiznitz]

Rare loot can be fun and not rare. Put lots and lots of rares in the loot tables but give the items timers so no one keeps them forever. Make every rare LORE with every other rare.

[WindupAtheist]

I like how the FoH people are basically just flaming Brad and the game now.  He posts a new batch of screenshots and the very next post is something like "I think LOL about sums those up."  Speaking of screenshots...

Why does a brand new game with a twenty or thirty gig install look this shitty?