SOE to Publish Vanguard

[Chthonian]

Mole or no, I actually just copy/pasted a response I wrote on a couple other forums here and wanted to get the word out in general since it wasn't up on the forums yet. And posting happy fluffy things on these forums doesn't tend to shift opinion at all, just inflame the masses even further (yes, I've read the forums for a long time).

[Margalis]

It's painfully ugly but still runs like hell, it's not fun at all. The install was 16gb, and I don't even know why or how. It certainly wasn't jam packed with models, since every race was the exact same with a different head. The gameplay is worse than EQ1. if it doesn't get outright cancelled it's going to bomb hard.

I called this one a while ago. Their approach is exactly like launch EQ2. It runs like shit and doesn't look particularly good, but by the time it comes out computers will have quadrupled in power and it will be great! The just excuse away terrible performance by playing the Moore's Law card.

Except that bad algorithms are bad algorithms and the average computer a year from now really isn't going to be that much better.

Same race with a different head? That's also EQ2 to a T.

This game sounds awful and that is completely expected. Reading between the lines it's clear that beta has been a bomb, there is zero excitement and Brad and Co spend their time making weak rationalizations.

[Arthur_Parker]

A very grindy game with unhappy Beta players is going to be published by an company with a terrible customer service history.  I would have a negative impression at this point, but I read about it from someone who admits to having an agenda to shift opinion and has avoided answering a simple question.

Sweet, who do I give my credit card number to?

[Miasma]

Mole or no, I actually just copy/pasted a response I wrote on a couple other forums here and wanted to get the word out in general since it wasn't up on the forums yet. And posting happy fluffy things on these forums doesn't tend to shift opinion at all, just inflame the masses even further (yes, I've read the forums for a long time).

It was on the forums but in a different thread about Vanguard that was already going.

[Simond]

To be fair to EQ2, SOE somehow managed to get a damned good live team on it, who have spent the last 18 months ripping out as much of the fugly catass grind as they dare and turning it into a half-decent game.

Mind you, if SOE had done the sensible thing and spent a further six months or so in beta improving the game, they would have been in prime position to start hoovering up the first bunch of cancellations from WoW.

[Soln]

Let the Consolidation Commence !  Huzzah   

[Hutch]

[HaemishM]

Ew....they're getting SOE all over my grindfest. Now it's going to suck!

NOW?

[Samwise]

[WayAbvPar]

Classic.

[Toast]

All I have to say is where do I pre-order!@?

[HaemishM]

All I have to say is where do I pre-order!@?

Here.

[WayAbvPar]

All I have to say is where do I pre-order!@?

Here.

I am not clicking that in the off chance some sick fuck actually has a site up there.

[schild]

Having seen this game.

Uh.

SOE can't fuck it up.

It's already fucked. I'd suggest everyone forgets it exists. Fast-like.

[Samwise]

It's already fucked. I'd suggest everyone forgets it exists. Fast-like.

Didn't we know it was fucked from the start?  I thought we were all on the same page with that.

[Velorath]

Didn't we know it was fucked from the start?  I thought we were all on the same page with that.

It's like when you already know what you're getting for Christmas but you pretend to be surprised when you open the present anyway.

[Arthur_Parker]

Lots of new screenshots

Double boobies

[Falconeer]

Is THIS old news already?


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May 10, 2006
Saga of Heroes using EMotion FX Character Animation
 

Highly anticipated Vanguard: Saga of Heroes MMORPG using the EMotion FX Character Animation System at E3

ROTTERDAM, NETHERLANDS – May 10, 2006 - Mystic Game Development, a pioneer in real-time character animation middleware, today announced that Sigil Game Online's Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was built using Mystic's EMotion FX real-time character animation technology as a core component. The MMORPG game, which received coverage in all 3 major US PC magazines recently, is being shown at E3 in LA this week.

“Having met and worked with the Sigil team since 2004, we set out to evolve EMotion FX as it was then, into the production SDK it is now. Put it this way, imagine having 2000 different characters and having to animate them all individually. Instead, you animate just 1 character and play back the same motion data on all characters, so saving a huge amount of animator time" said John van der Burg, Development Director at Mystic Game Development. "We are delighted to see what Sigil has been creating and look forward to playing the game".

“To give a character over 500 unique motions and very detailed character customization down to a per bone level needs a special Animation product” continues John van der Burg, from Mystic Game Development. “When you are creating a game with the scope and scale of Vanguard you need the right animation engine and the right support"

“EMotion FX has given us the ability to have myriad distinct player character models while allowing us to share most of the mesh assets and animations,” said Kevin McPherson, Senior Programmer at Sigil Games Online. “I have found the API easy to integrate, well written, and it supports the variety of complex features we needed for our character and animation systems. These systems include asset sharing through retargeting and shrink-wrapping, customization, look-at controllers, and motion blending/mixing.I recommend EMotion FX to developers that are looking for a total character solution.”

About Mystic Game Development
Founded in Rotterdam, The Netherlands in 1999, Mystic Game Development is a pioneer in real-time character animation products used by leading game developers such as Mythic Entertainment, Sigil Games Online, Webzen, SimBin, Nexon Corporation, IMC Games, Piranha Bytes, EGN Co., and DragonFly GF Co. For more information visit www.emotionfx.com.

About Sigil Games Online
Based in Carlsbad, California, Sigil Games Online is a studio dedicated to creating massively multiplayer online (MMO) games. Founded in 2002 by Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler, key figures in the development of award-winning EverQuest, the company plans to be a driving force in the continued evolution of this unique genre. Sigil Games Online is comprised of an all-star team of experienced developers with an impressive pedigree of commercially successful and critically acclaimed online games. For more information, visit www.sigilgames.com.
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Oddly enough, I can't find any mention on the Vanguard official site. Am I blind, did they forgot or are they keeping it undercover or something?

[Trippy]

They are just too lazy to update their Web site (a ton of companies haven't updated their sites with their E3 news).

[Toast]

This made me chuckle. I transcribed this text from a dialog box in the screenshots. This is a conversation with the Diplomacy trainer:

...making an Inference followed by a Good Point. They will increase your Dialog Progress by helping convince me you're right."

Randon Talley says, "Make Good Points while your Inference is active. When your Inference wears out - use another."

You have to grind conversations as well. (That was my Inference. Hopefully it was also a Good Point. DING!)

[Oban]

You have to grind conversations as well. (That was my Inference. Hopefully it was also a Good Point. DING!)

Grats!

[Engels]

Anyone else getting huge DAoC flashbacks when looking at Vanguard's northern races architechture? In a way its worse, because its so mind numbingly bland. At least with DAoC the thing was new.

[Raguel]

It's already fucked. I'd suggest everyone forgets it exists. Fast-like.

Didn't we know it was fucked from the start?  I thought we were all on the same page with that.

I'm surprised. Not that I planned on playing it, but I'm surprised the "vanbois" don't like it.

edit: As far as the screens go, it sort of reminds me of something I read awhile back (I think it was Damion/Ubiq); if all games go for "graphic realism" then eventually they'll all look the same.

[Simond]

I'd suggest everyone forgets it exists. Fast-like.

I'd suggest everyone remembers it, so that Brad McQuaid never gets another job in the industry again.

Edit: Fun thing I discovered today. Going to the official Vanguard forums and asking why people keep posting links to EQ2 screenshots is vastly amusing.

[HaemishM]

Lots of new screenshots

Why do all the characters have the same blank stare in their eyes?

Oh wait, that's not the characters, that's the players, sitting zombie-like as they wait for their turn in line to raid Ubitz, the Dragon's Dragon.

[Yegolev]

Anyone else getting huge DAoC flashbacks when looking at Vanguard's northern races architechture? In a way its worse, because its so mind numbingly bland. At least with DAoC the thing was new.

Actually that's what I thought, although it applied to everything rather than just the Midgard sets.  What was that expansion that added valewalkers and necromancers?  The game looks like that.  The models... they are sucky.  EQ2 sucky.  But who cares about graphics when you have gameplay like this?

[HRose]

Having seen this game.

Uh.

SOE can't fuck it up.

It's already fucked. I'd suggest everyone forgets it exists. Fast-like.

What about talking about this?

[Falconeer]

I know this won't be half as sweet as they are trying us to believe, but just stumbled on this hands on preview from Gamespot, and well... the part about housing sounds interesting:

"Much more development time has apparently been invested into developing player housing and character customization. According to Butler, the beta version of the game already contains more housing-related content and options than Star Wars Galaxies, including a total of more than 8,000 different craftable items, which can all be placed in a player-owned house with an easy-to-use mouse-driven interface that lets players quickly place objects on tables, on walls, or on the floor. Housing will also have a highly customizable permissions system for entry, so you'll be able to, for instance, turn your home into a public shop that's open during certain hours of the day, then automatically converts to a private dwelling in off-hours."

Totally fake-biased-E3-pressrelease like.
Anyway, I think it could be interesting if every building leads to a single owned house. It's nothing new and nothing fancy if they are multi-instanced a la EQ2.

[Arthur_Parker]

Found this linked from foh.

ActionTrip

Anyway, as some of you may know, Vanguard (check out the screenshots here), the upcoming MMORPG from Sigil Games (founded by one of the original creators of EverQuest), recently received a new publisher. So instead of paying them a visit tomorrow as part of my MS appointment, I caught a glimpse of the game during day one, at SOE's booth.

Now let me tell you, it's almost unbearably obvious why MS got rid of this one. Merely looking at the game was a disappointment right off the bat. One of the folks from the development team was trying half-heartedly to explain the game's features, controlling an avatar in a five-man party and clearing some monsters in a keep. All I could do was stare at, what appeared to be, an unattractive and unappealing fantasy MMO world. The character animation seemed stiff and the models were very poor when playing from third person perspective. Most of the areas were practically swimming in gray tones, and well, it's kind of hard to explain. In my humble opinion, the game just doesn't look appealing in the least bit.

Gameplay wise, Vanguard seemed standard in every possible sense. The developer explained to me that there are no instanced dungeons in the game world and that's about it from what I could understand. The interface seemed highly reminiscent of any other MMOG… and that's it. The content itself didn't seem fun to play.

[Simond]

Anyway, I think it could be interesting if every building leads to a single owned house. It's nothing new and nothing fancy if they are multi-instanced a la EQ2.

No instancing.
Urban sprawl and strong IGE housing market inc!

[Falconeer]

No instancing.
Urban sprawl and strong IGE housing market inc!

Nah.
As bad as I can think of recent Sigil activity, I can't believe urban sprawl will happen again.
I mean, no instancing, I believe it and I appreciate it.
Urban sprawl, no. As hardcore as they claim to be, I am more inclined to believe in a very limited number of available houses.

[Mesozoic]

Wow...the official VG forums are my new one-stop site for internet humor.  The denial is beautiful....like a rare flower blooming in the warm rays of the alpha-stage sun, only to be crushed by the relentless grinding tank-tread of release.

Well why dont sigil show us what they got, after all they are at E3. The game has been in developement for long enough to show the game in motion, so if they are confident in their product, show it to us.

Has it occurred to you that maybe they wish to save their best for last? No point in telegraphing what you're doing to your competitors.

[Tale]

The denial is beautiful

I thought that when I saw the following on the SomethingAwful thread linked above:

I feel some things here need to be corrected. Please note that I am not in the beta, otherwise NDA would prevent me from posting.

1) Client size. You say it's 16 Gb. I believe it. They use Unreal Engine, and this engine takes a lot of space. And the game world is huge. But they stated a couple of time that they didn't optimize shit yet. Not the textures, not the smoothness, nothing. So maybe, just maybe the final client will be lighter.

2) Game is awful. While I obviously can't estimate how good the game is, but this just cannot be true. First, it'll be at least as good as EQ. EQ may be old, bulky and all, but it's still a great game. Not for everyone, that's for sure. It's not WoW, it's not even D&DO. It's a fucking hard game. This might not be the cup of tea of a lot of people, but to hardcore gamers, EQ1 is still the reference.

[Miasma]

Lots of new screenshots

I liked a lot of the backgrounds in those screenshots but the characters are really awful.  I can't really pin down why I dislike them either, it's just a gut reaction.  Maybe because they all look the same, I'm also getting tired of skin tight armour.  The small amount of user interface that you could see looked positively archaic as well, especially the names on top of all the mobs.

As far as housing/sprawl goes some of the screenshots had pictures of houses with what looked like little "for sale" signs on them.  "The Vision" probably demands that there are only twenty houses per server and you have to fight over them.

[Tale]

I do like how these Wood Elves look. Ohh and ... caption?


[EDIT] in-game footage

1) The Vanguard E3 video can be freely downloaded here (it's members only on Gamespot): http://hoopy.ns.utk.edu/Vanguard/
2) More can be seen via @Silky Venom - follow directions ... in which Jeff Butler promises "winter this year" release date.