3/22/06 - The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (PC, X360)

[Lantyssa]

Is it true your skills are capped by your attributes?

I have a few skills that are above their attributes, although my luck is very high so if there is a cap luck may apply when it is more beneficial.

[Ironwood]

This is why I wasn't too worried about the leveling system or any weird UI problems, because the modding community for Morrowind is huge and they're raring to get at Oblivion.

Smoove Leveling:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Dz%27s_Smooth_Leveling_Mod

Time Mod:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/OblivionTime

No more teleporting/psychic guards:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/No_Psychic_Guards

Lighter Alchemy Ingredients:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Lighter_Alchemy_Ingredients

Improved UI and No Quest Markers (if you don't want them):
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Improved_UI_%26_No_Quest_Markers

Sneak Icon moved next to Compass (thank you!):
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Sneak_Icon_Mover

Stolen Horses don't wander off:
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Horses_Stay_Put_%28No_Wandering%29

YES.  That's exactly what I'm talking about.  Here, Schild, is where the PC is far superior to the XBox version.  That Improved UI alone is to die for.  Thank the maker and whatnot.

[schild]

OMG IRONWOOD, DID THEY PATCH IN MULTIPLAYER?

Oh.

No, they didn't.

I almost NEVER download mods for anything. If I can't play the game as originally intended I generally curse the developer and throw it aside. I've downloaded less than 20 mods in my life, 15 of them being for UT2k4.

[Signe]

OMG IRONWOOD, DID THEY PATCH IN MULTIPLAYER?

Oh.

No, they didn't.

I almost NEVER download mods for anything. If I can't play the game as originally intended I generally curse the developer and throw it aside. I've downloaded less than 20 mods in my life, 15 of them being for UT2k4.

You are so good.  You remind me of Jesus Christ, Our Lord the Saviour.

[Ironwood]

Ah, I see.  The Xbox version was supposed to ship with multiplayer and didn't.  My, you were really screwed then.

Don't mistake me, I'm not trying to make you care about a game that you won't.  I'm once again having fun pointing out how your 'I said it, must be true' stance is, er, a little tricky.


However, the strength of the PC is, in my opinion, in the Mod Community.  But that's a thread for another time, I feel.

(and let's be 100% honest - if it was multiplayer, you'd just be whining about the guys pking your flax.  I love that it has flax.)

[squirrel]

YES.  That's exactly what I'm talking about.  Here, Schild, is where the PC is far superior to the XBox version.  That Improved UI alone is to die for.  Thank the maker and whatnot.

One could argue of course that since the UI seems primarily designed for the 360 and it's controller that it needs no mod. But i do eagrly await the mod that lets me have a castle like the one in Anvil.

[Fabricated]

OMG IRONWOOD, DID THEY PATCH IN MULTIPLAYER?

Oh.

No, they didn't.

I almost NEVER download mods for anything. If I can't play the game as originally intended I generally curse the developer and throw it aside. I've downloaded less than 20 mods in my life, 15 of them being for UT2k4.

You're missing out on a lot then.

[schild]

I'm really not. I'm no supporter of player created content. For pretty much anything. Though I do support texture upgrades, like the John P Thief 3 ones for when studios get shitty and lazy.

[Morfiend]

I'm really not.

How can you say that, when you just admitted you never download mods, so you really have no idea what your missing or not missing.

[schild]

I can say it pretty easily. Most of the problems people complained about on the PC version simply don't exist on the xbox. The UI is nearly flawless, the sneak eye makes sense to have right in the center, my stolen horses didn't wander off (in fact it told me where my stolen horses were when I entered a town), guards Never Teleported (and I had a decent number of run-ins with them, like every 10 minutes I played).

And that's just from the list above. If I'm not happy with a game as it ships or officially released patches, I'm not going to be happy with it. Mods never have, and never will change my opinion for a game. The only mods I ever really enjoyed was the two extensions to Deus Ex: Zodiac and The Cassandra Project.

[Morfiend]

I had an apple once. I didnt like it. Hence I dont like any type of fruit.

Also, I think Fabricated was talking in general not just about Oblivion when it comes to PC vs Xbox. What you listed hasnt been a problem for me ether, but if I can find a decent mod that fixes they fucking stupid as shit leveling system, I will gladly install it.

[schild]

See, that's the rub. A lot of people download mods to fix problems. I download mobs when a game doesn't provide me with enough fun (i.e. too short, like Deus Ex) or when I just can't get enough (i.e. Deus Ex) or when it's Deus Ex (i.e. Deus Ex). In other words, I have to like a game enough to want a mod for it, not vice versa. Nothing, for example, could have made Never Winter Nights fun for me.

[Morfiend]

First, I am enjoying the hell out of Oblivion, the only thing that really is getting to me is the leveling system. I think its horrible and counter intuitive. So if there is a quick fix that doesnt change the game very much, but lets me just play and have my character develope and not have to constantly worry about multiplyers or leveling to soon and gimping myself, im all for it.

As for your NWN reference, I though the singleplayer game was pretty crappy, but I had a ton of fun playing in online arena matches and custome mod worlds. Enough fun that I would say for me the game was a good game. If I had based it only on the singleplayer story, it would have been a crap game.

[Fabricated]

First, I am enjoying the hell out of Oblivion, the only thing that really is getting to me is the leveling system. I think its horrible and counter intuitive. So if there is a quick fix that doesnt change the game very much, but lets me just play and have my character develope and not have to constantly worry about multiplyers or leveling to soon and gimping myself, im all for it.

As for your NWN reference, I though the singleplayer game was pretty crappy, but I had a ton of fun playing in online arena matches and custome mod worlds. Enough fun that I would say for me the game was a good game. If I had based it only on the singleplayer story, it would have been a crap game.

That smoother leveling (smoove, bleah, spelling iz not gud) mod seems to have done the trick for me. 20 points in major skills before a level about fixes it since you can skill up a fair amount before dinging.

[trias_e]

A couple more mods that I use to add to the list:

1) Balor Leveling - Vehem Edition:  http://www.tessource.net/files/file.php?id=1956   (sorry for the required registration)

Basically totally revamps the leveling process.  Raising skills directly raises attributes (8 attributes raised and you level up, which is nothing but a signification now).  I find this far better than the original or even the smooth level, although there may be balance issues with it later in the game.


2) No obsolete loot:  http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?s=73541cafcac5008fa96adbe7504bde9f&showtopic=309905

Until a better fix for item/level scaling comes in.


3) Slower Oblivion: http://www.tessource.net/files/file.php?id=1820

Frankly, it sucks leveling to 15 just doing noob quests right outside of the main towns, and all of the sudden seeing bandits in caves fully decked out in 'whatever the fuck awesome armor' worth more than all the cash you had collected in the game up to that point.  2x or 3x was perfect for my playstyle and tastes.  If you just want to go straight through the main quest, this probably doesn't matter to you, but if you want to just explore and see as much of the game as you can without uber mobs appearing before you've even done anything, give it a try.


All of the following are at http://feinam.20megsfree.com/Oblivion/ModIndex/Mods.html

4) Marksman Velocity:

"This mod increases the speed of arrows according to the level of bow/arrow quality. Iron level will still lazily fly at default level, whereas higher ammo types will scream for their target. This will increase relative power of an archer since it's easier to hit moving targets, and it will make combating well equipped archers more difficult."


5) Arcane Velocity: 

"Faster magic [projectile] speeds; many ways to customize."  If you think dodging magic is too easy.


6) No starting fast travel markers (must explore to activate).  Only works with a new character though unfortunately.  I know one can easily play this way to begin with, but it removes the temptation to travel somewhere you haven't been yet for those of us with weak will (but who still want this enabled).

[Fabricated]

Oh yeah, the AI does funny stuff sometimes.

I just took my character down to the waterfront outside of the main city. I walked by what was I guess a moored pirate ship. The pirate captain got off, and had a unique enough sounding name that I thought she'd have something interesting to say. I talked to her and she basically threatened that if I got too close to her ship she and her pirates would murder me.

I looked at the ship and some unique Imperial soldier/guard (her-something-us Rex, who is mentioned by name and a topic of discussion if you talk to some people in town) was starting to walk off of the ship. Was he coming in on the ship or something? Or just patrolling? I walk up to the ship's gangplank and sure enough, all of the pirates on the ship and the captain draw swords and come after me.

...Rex and some other NPC standing nearby go apeshit and MURDER the whole pirate crew. I don't have to lift a finger. I loot the nice Steel Cutlass' off of their bodies, and ransack the ship for 100+ gold, some food, and a bunch of gems.

Funny stuff.

[vex]

Improved UI and No Quest Markers (if you don't want them):
http://www.tescreens.be/oblivionmodwiki/index.php/Improved_UI_%26_No_Quest_Markers

This one cause me to CTD a lot.  Even after I removed the mod the saved games that I made while it was loaded would crash too.  I had to revert to a saved game I had made before.  Good thing it broke so much I didn't get very far.  It's a real pity.

If you just disliked little things about Morrowind, but enjoyed it overall, you'll like Oblivion. If you hated Morrowind, you'll hate this.

I can't say I agree with this.  I couldn't play Morrowind.  There was just nothing engaging about it all but Oblivion is the first game I've really enjoyed in ages.

[OcellotJenkins]

A few questions about theiving;  if you steal every freaking crumb from all the houses and shops in a particular town, will all the stuff eventually come back so you can ransack it again later?  What are the advantages to using other fences besides the first guy?  He seems to have an unlimited amount of gold and I have a good reputation with him.  Do the other fences give more gold for loot?

[schild]

It's not unlimited. That amount of gold in the bottom right hand is how much he'll spend ona  single item. In other words, he'll buy 5,000 flowers worth 2 gold but won't buy the Bracers you get from that bitches lockbox (the girl training outside of the Imperial Arena).

[NiX]

I've become the leader of the thieves guild. Fences don't work anymore. I WANT TO SELL MY 4000 GOLD WORTH OF STOLEN SHIT! Argh, frustrating. My biggest complaint is cookie cutter bullshit. The fort in Pale Pass was such a let down. I wanted to see some grand fort that would have housed an army that challenged the imperial army, but no. One of those generic ruined towers was what I found. Crap. Fucking crap.

[Dren]

To balance out the leveling for my mage character I'm just holding off leveling until I cap my skills.  I use the "T" command if I need to move ahead on the clock for a quest instead of resting which will force me to level. 

Just because it says you can level doesn't mean you have to.  I still get skill increases.  I should be able to get more bang for my buck on each level, plus I am able to control how difficult my encounters are.  Once I've capped out, I'm pretty damn powerful for my level.  Rest an hour and get the next level.  Cap skills again.

It just keeps me at the high end of the power curve for each of my levels.  Seems to work.

[Murgos]

The X1600 is working well.  The game detected the new hardware and asked if I wanted to use 'High Quality' settings.  Of course I said yes.  1024x768 now with HDR on, draw distant objects back on, specular on (maxed distance too), every thing is on or had it's slider upped except for self shadows and canopy shadows, water looks great.  Did a trip into oblivion and wandered around Anvil for a bit, me rikey.  Next I think I will screw around with finding the sweetspot in resolution and with/without HDR, Bloom and AA.

At level 16 right now and the talk of gimped leveling has got me doubting my build but because I could have had another 70 or 80 stat points if I had been a religious min/maxxer.  But from and actual game perspective my character is fine, I can, with judicious use of spells and some fast finger work, take out two Dremora Kynareve (SP?) in hand to hand combat in very damaged light armor mix of chain and elven and with a fairly damaged Ahkivari Katana.  Fully repaired equipment makes the battle much easier (this is with the difficulty slider at the default -middle- position).  My strength, speed and endurance are all mid 60's, willpower and intelligence are lagging quite a bit though - luck started at 65 and hasn't moved yet.

I just recently started to pay attention to having my equipment repaired at all times by using repair hammers, this makes a HUGE difference in the ease of the game.  The problem with waiting so long to pick up armoring as a serious hobby has been the above mentioned lack of stats and that you need to be a journeyman armorer to repair magic items, so my most important pieces of equipment tend to be my least effective after a romp through a dungeon.

Oblivion (the gates not the game) is maybe a little to same/same and all the dremora loot is way too heavy, though it does have some cool names (Penance of Pain?).  I need a low level mysticism spell so I can raise  mysticism to 25 for the soul sucking spell to recharge my soul gems, all these daedra I am fighting should be good for at least charging all those grand should gems I have in my inventory.  I am collecting sigil stones to make a nice suit of spell absorbing armor, dispel on a weapon seems kind of pointless though some things do buff themselves but I wonder why they went with that particular power.  Dwarven weapons have been on vendors for a while and now dwarven armor is just starting to show up, fine by me as I am thinking of going heavy for a while anyway.

Random bandits armed with Elven Battle Axes and Elven armor are a little disconcerting considering that just a little while ago they couldn't come up with a whole suit of iron armor between 3 of them.  A little in game fiction of where these bandits are getting this ubar gear from would have helped to maintain the plausibility of the whole thing.  Not a game breaker at all, just a little -eh what ya gonna do?  They had to keep them a threat somehow.

[Glazius]

As a Knight, I do have to say the speechcraft system sucks. Nice idea, shoddy implementation. Seems I'm always getting shafted with enough bad responses that I can only raise things a tiny bit...and what's with the countdown timer. I often end up with a lot lower reputation with characters than I started with, because the minigame shafted me. Small quibble, but as it's one of my Knight skills, it bugs me from an rp perspective.

I still think it's one of the best games I've ever played. All gripes are exceedingly small and quickly forgotten.

And people complaining on forums? Lolinternet, you know better :)

Some quick and dirty speechcraft hints:

There are only two things you want to avoid: hitting the small slice on an NPC's favorite reaction, and hitting anything _but_ the small slice on an NPC's least favorite reaction. If taking a big meaty slice on the slightly disliked topic will set you up to hit it on the most liked topic, you'll gain a lot more back.

Also, it helps to finish with something the NPC likes. There's a cap on NPC reactions based on your Speechcraft, but that cap is checked _after_ every round. So if you can finish strong you can get a couple extra points above what your stats say you should get.

Also also, you've got the free-rotate button, right? And once you get to Journeyman the countdown slows, so there's that.

--GF

[Yegolev]

I don't like Oblivion because there aren't other people.

I don't like MMORPGs anymore because they aren't as fleshed out as Oblivion.

Heh, that is funny.  Good writeup.  I can't disagree with you on any point other than just to say that I like it.  Personal preference.  Glad you gave money to Bethsoft.  I agree that the sneaking makes me want to play Thief (stupid daedra that see in the dark) and the combat makes me want to play Mount & Blade, but I also agree with you in that what TESIV brings to the table is a solid integration of these mechanics rather than a summary dethroning of the reigning kings of each gameplay element.

I think I am at level 9 so far.  I haven't bothered to min/max, or even learn the mechanics behind the leveling.  So far I am not even looking for a mod, unlike with Morrowind.  Just playing the game.  I was a tad shocked when I went back into that first Oblivion gate to find someone had replaced my baby scamps with regular scamps and clannfear, but then a lot of the harada and somthing-stick had grown back.

I might actually download the "lighter ingredient" mod simply because no one will sell me a house and I have to carry all of my alchemical equipment and reagents in my pockets.  I really need a workshop, or a place to put things where I won't worry about some crack-addict stealing my stuff, but seems like I have to get on the good side of the town leadership or something.

So far, I fail to see the benefit of owning a horse.  In Daggerfall, they allowed me to move faster.  Here they don't, and I can't even shoot arrows from horseback.  I think I'd like to eat my horse at this point, or cut him up for reagents.  I have not tried to make my horse fly yet.

Vampirism < lycanthropy; not looking forward to dealing with that, but that has been true of all the games.

People who think Morrowind and Oblivion are buggy have not played Daggerfall.  I let Bethsoft slide because I appreciate what they do, which I guess just makes me a raging fanboi.  Or I find more good than bad.  Oh well.  Having not played Arena, my executive summary is Daggerfall > Oblivion > Morrowind.

How is the template assassin holding up?  Not bad.  Got the hang of sneaking in the game after being used to Thief; only put shoes on my lizard yesterday.  I'd like some camo but so far I am doing things the hard way... well it's not too hard with a bow.  If I had to creep up to them it would be much harder.   I have two main varieties of poison, one that damages health and one that damages health and magicka.  Hitting undetected with a poison arrow, followed by regular shots or judicious running, works great.  Scamps, it turns out, do more damage to me in melee than with the fireball so I stoped using the magicka damage one... but it does help a lot against dremora casters.

I suck at melee.  The player and the character, it seems, although I am worse.  I use the bow all the time.  I carry a longsword for emergencies but no shield.  Archery works pretty well in this game, particularly when combined with some poison.  I do like the pause effect of the menu since it gives me time to figure out which potion I want to use, made more difficult due to my lack of custom names.  I had four or five stacks of "Damage Health" before my foray into Oblivion.

Arrows seem to bounce off of atronachs quite a bit.  They are immune to poison as well.  Suck.

I enjoy the alchemy game.  I am kinda-sorta working on the nirnroot quest; really I just search coastlines if I happen across them.  Found one in the Surillie brothers' house, if anyone needs just one more.

[Morfiend]

So when I got home last night I went and downloaded a few of the mods.

The UI mod. OH LORD AND SAVIOR HOW I LOVE THEE! This mod is great, it really improves the UI. Puts more items on a page, and makes the map WAY bigger. Great mod. Unlike the guy above, no problems for me yet.

I also downloaded Balors Leveling - Vehem Edition. This thing is INSANE. It makes the leveling what it should have been to begin with. I really feel like I can just play the game now, and not worry about "Am I about to level? Did I work my sub skills enough?" Its really really great. Honestly this mod just made the game go from like an 80/100 rating to a 90+/100 rating for me. It has really improved the one aspect of the game that constantly bugged me. I made a backup of my saved games and installed it. Worked great with a new or existing character. Props to Balor and Vehem. I love it.

[Lantyssa]

I need a low level mysticism spell so I can raise  mysticism to 25 for the soul sucking spell to recharge my soul gems, all these daedra I am fighting should be good for at least charging all those grand should gems I have in my inventory.

You can get Minor Detect Life in the Imperial City.  It is cheap to cast and something you can use as you run around.

[Miasma]

I might actually download the "lighter ingredient" mod simply because no one will sell me a house and I have to carry all of my alchemical equipment and reagents in my pockets.  I really need a workshop, or a place to put things where I won't worry about some crack-addict stealing my stuff, but seems like I have to get on the good side of the town leadership or something.

Vampirism < lycanthropy; not looking forward to dealing with that, but that has been true of all the games.

I just bought the unabomber style shack in the imperial city.  You buy it in the marketplace from the official sounding place "Imperial commerce department" or something like that.  Then I bought the storage from something-or-other brothers.  It only cost about 2750 gold and I can store all my crap.  To buy the houses you usually have to play the speechcraft game and bribe them, not the hellhole I bought though.  The text goes something like "I would like to buy that house" and she responds "Why would you want to do tha.. err ok sure".

I think that so long as you don't sleep in a bed the lycanthropy won't go to full blown vampirism so just make sure to visit a church to clear the disease before you sleep.  Either that or you have three days to cure it.  I just make sure to visit a church as soon as I finish fighting vampires.

[Soukyan]

I can't say I agree with this.  I couldn't play Morrowind.  There was just nothing engaging about it all but Oblivion is the first game I've really enjoyed in ages.

Same here. I couldn't really get into Morrowind, although I certainly tried and tried, but just never felt drawn in. Oblivion? Exact opposite. Man did Oblivion suck me in and it hasn't let go yet. The difference? No fricking clue.

[Yegolev]

I just bought the unabomber style shack in the imperial city.  You buy it in the marketplace from the official sounding place "Imperial commerce department" or something like that.

I have never visited the Imperial City.  Other than it's fine prison, of course.  If they accept Argonians with the personality of Lee Van Cleef, I guess I need to drop by.

I think that so long as you don't sleep in a bed the lycanthropy won't go to full blown vampirism so just make sure to visit a church to clear the disease before you sleep.  Either that or you have three days to cure it.  I just make sure to visit a church as soon as I finish fighting vampires.

Lycanthropy was in reference to becoming a werewolf, but thanks for the vampire tip.  I own but have not played Bloodmoon, so my werewolf experience is all from Daggerfall.  Town guards never had silver weapons and I would slaughter entire populations.  Being a werewolf was loads of fun, but being a vampire sounds more like the curse it is.

[Miasma]

Oh right, I somehow confused lycanthropy with the long name they give to the precursor disease that makes you a vampire.  I should never have switched to decaf.

The thing that bothers me about the vampire disease is that you don't get any obvious warning about it, it's pretty easy to miss the "You have contracted porphyric hemophilia" message in the middle of combat.  I get worthless icons cluttering my screen to tell me that my luck has been drained by 5 points for 30 seconds but nothing telling me that if I don't go to a church soon I am royally screwed until I complete a long, annoying quest for a cure.  It doesn't even show up in the negative magic effects tab.  I only noticed I had it last time because my fatigue meter never quite filled and my "Number of times diseased" stat went up by one.

[WayAbvPar]

Heh yeah Werewolf play was lots of fun in Daggerfall. I used to keep a separate saved game for it so I could go on a kill crazy rampage when the mood struck.

In other news, my phat new vid card just arrived. Now I have to wait 4.5 hours to get home and get it up and running to see how fast Oblivion crashes 

[WayAbvPar]

"Number of times diseased"

I wonder what that stat looks like for the tramp who bed hops through all the sailors down on the waterfront  :-D

[Sky]

Jane the ignorant slut who hops from bed to bed with the frequency of a cheap ham radio?

[Yoru]

So when I got home last night I went and downloaded a few of the mods.

The UI mod. OH LORD AND SAVIOR HOW I LOVE THEE! This mod is great, it really improves the UI. Puts more items on a page, and makes the map WAY bigger. Great mod. Unlike the guy above, no problems for me yet.

I also downloaded Balors Leveling - Vehem Edition. This thing is INSANE. It makes the leveling what it should have been to begin with. I really feel like I can just play the game now, and not worry about "Am I about to level? Did I work my sub skills enough?" Its really really great. Honestly this mod just made the game go from like an 80/100 rating to a 90+/100 rating for me. It has really improved the one aspect of the game that constantly bugged me. I made a backup of my saved games and installed it. Worked great with a new or existing character. Props to Balor and Vehem. I love it.

Could we get a mirror of the Balor-Vehem mod? I tried to get it via TESSource, but that site seems to hate me and doesn't accept my account credentials, even if I create a fresh account.

Also, detect life is . I cast that sucker when spelunking and use it to know when the dude around the corner is looking away. Then I stealth out from behind the rock and give him a taste of the ol' arrow-in-the-back. I'm trying to get a big enough soul and a high enough mysticism to create a helm of permanent detect life at around 60ft or so.

[Ironwood]

The only good thing about being a vampire is the detect life/see in the dark combo ability.  It fucking rocks.  Apart from that, vampirism sucks.  However, with regular feeding, you too can take care of your pet.

I am finding that since my horse tragically broke its own neck, I'm getting around faster without it.  Huh.  Who'd have thought it ?

Also, seconded for hosting Oblivion mods pls.  I had to do a raging dance before I could get a couple.

Cheers.