Gaymers force Blizzard into submission

[cevik]

EDIT: The fact that you actually think you have a point makes me so sad that I have again lost all faith in humanity.  How the fuck you escaped elementary school is fucking mind boggling.  Go back, they forgot to teach you the very basics of reasoning.

Hypocrisy is a bitch, eh?

And?  How was I hypocritic?  How?  Explain it?  In what way was I a hypocrite?

When you die, and they put you in line at the pearly gates, ask for a redo.  You failed at life.

I simply cannot believe that you are actually so stupid as to think you have a point.  It's fucking disturbing.

[Fabricated]

We can get back on point, or we can get to the den.

Good internet either way.

[cevik]

Hypocrisy is a bitch, eh?

Look, because I refuse to believe that anyone is this fucking dumb (it's the liberal in me), I'm just going to pray you are being purposely obtuse to show Paelos how stupid his side is.  I will explain it one last time, just in case..

I have no problem with things that do not affect gameplay experiences.  Advertising a GLBT guild does not, in any way, affect your gameplay experience.  Gay cyber sex in a public chat channel does.  One is a bannable offense, one is not.

A GLBT does not, in any way, affect your gameplay experience.

Exploits and hacks do.

One is a bannable offense, the other is not.

There is no slippery slope, I know you tried really really hard to be clever, but you were not.  The "line" as you put it is clear, it's distinct, and it's easy to draw.  On one side is fucking assholes like you and Paelos being way too fucking sensitive about your gayness, on the other is using direct actions to affect other's gameplay experience.  It's really really simple, you are not nearly as smart as you think you are.

[Numtini]

The "line" as you put it is clear, it's distinct, and it's easy to draw.

This is part of what made this an issue. The difference is easy to draw and Blizzard had done a good job up until this incident.

[Krakrok]

I disagree. The solution is a guild recruitment channel and no guild recruitment in general chat because it is spam.

And if someone wants to advertise a hacker, cheater, or gold farmer guild in the guild recruitment channel I'm fine with that too.

[Ironwood]

For the love of Christ.

The Den please.

[Samwise]

There are better ways to handle recruitment than this woman's guild chose, and there are better ways to handle the situation than Blizzard did.

Yes.

[Numtini]

Denning it is kind of the issue really. Say you're GLBT friendly. Have homophobes scream bloody murder. Have the GM ban the person for even bringing it up. The result is that anti-gay people get a veto on gay people's existance.

[Hoax]

Which is exactly what happened no?

The GM didn't have time to repremand/warn every person that was having a Paelos-fit about the guild advertisement so they told the guild advertiser to get back in the closet.  Much akin to Haemish's point.

The fact is, people advertise what raids they are doing, if they are newb friendly, pvp orientated or what timezone they operate in when they are advertising for new members.  The idea that information that you are using to whittle out people who will not fit in with the type of guild you are making should be kept secret until a person contacts you is fucking ridiculous.

<me>:  Guild looking for new members!  We have a cool name and a cool tabbard!  PST if you want to know anything at all about the guild!

Thats just retarded, and deep down we all know that.  General chat is all worthless spammage anyways, we all know that too.  If there is indeed a guild recruitment channel then yes they should keep that shit out of general.  But saying that they shouldn't attempt to look for people who would be interested in a LGBT friendly guild atmosphere in their advertising is just FUCKING STUPID YOU KNOW IT IS STUPID SO STOP PRETENDING THIS IS COMPLICATED.

[Paelos]

I'm glad I can stir you into such a frenzy over apparently nothing.

So I'm a bigot Cevik? Ok, I'm used to having people fire a lot of names at me, but it seems everytime you post you further sink your point with nothing but shit-slinging.

Let's get back to basics. Ironwood is right, I shouldn't have said "deviant" and I didn't mean it applied to gays. I don't think of them as deviants, and while I don't agree with their lifestyle, this is America, and in my opinion they have a right to it and to talk and/or celebrate it in public. Also, because this is America, people that disagree can actually disagree without being called retarded, rednecked, bigots. That's counter-intuative to the argument if that starts.

I wrote the original post while wildly drunk, mostly because I'm sick of RL politics (which gay rights are, regardless if you don't want it to be) coming into something that I consider to be a relaxing and anonymous hobby. Let them have a gay guild if they want it, it's not going to bother me. I'd rather not have it since online games would seem to me to be the one place where you can shed your real identity and taking up whatever mantle you want, but apparently that's not possible for some people. I have no idea why that is, but I'm not in the job of controlling how they have fun as long as it doesn't enfringe on someone else's fun.

So, if my first point offended you, I apologize. My intent was to point out that I found the fact that people would go out of their way to make this an issue was ridiculous and has nothing to do with gays. There were better ways to put it.

However, Cevik, you can kiss my ass. You're not even trying to see the real point in the issue and instead are just jumping up people's asses. Thanks for being a big enough jerk to try and completely ignore the points and turn it into a namecalling contest. You have zero class.

[Lantyssa]

I'd rather not have it since online games would seem to me to be the one place where you can shed your real identity and taking up whatever mantle you want, but apparently that's not possible for some people.

Ideally this would be the case.  I play on RP servers to help foster that alternate identity.

The problem is that we cannot control others.  There are a ton of players that have no desire to shed their identity.  "It is just a game."  They bring real life into it and so what results is a guild forming with the intent of avoiding those people.  Role players do this all the time.  Even on an RP server I hear at least once a week someone asking what RP is.

I cannot blame a guild forming around the GLBT tag to do likewise.  For all we know there is less gay-oriented talk in their guild channel than can be found in general chat at any given time, especially considering that was kind of the point behind OZ's formation.

[Lantyssa]

I disagree. The solution is a guild recruitment channel and no guild recruitment in general chat because it is spam.

Ask and ye shall receive:

- World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.9.4 (2006-02-09)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General
- A new Guild Recruitment channel has been added.  This channel will be on by default.

[Krakrok]

Now, was that so hard? Wonders of modern technology.

[Shockeye]

Frankly, I think the term "gaymer" is cute.

If you don't want the real world in your game the best thing you can do is play on a RP server. It won't stop it completely, but it will reduce it a great deal.

[Azazel]

Fucking retard.

Oh, so you're not down with a Hacker friendly guild then? What about a Gold Farmer friendly guild?

You're being an idiot. And yes, the goldfarmers do have their own guilds. I'm sure the people who want to hax0r the client also congregate with their mates.

Wait, wait.

Stonewall Champions?

Is this gay-friendly guild argument originating from MY FUCKING SERVER?

No, Fab (nice gay-friendly name you got there, BTW) ;). This argument if you read the original article is from some chick on some other server I can't even remember the name of. Reading comprehension and retention FTW.

Stonewall champions came up as an example of a gey-friendly guild on my server that isn't in your face about their sexuality and shit, since obviously you didn't know they were gay-friendly either.

However, Proudmoore is still an unstable piece of shit. Paelos plays there too.

[Azazel]

I wrote the original post while wildly drunk, mostly because I'm sick of RL politics (which gay rights are, regardless if you don't want it to be) coming into something that I consider to be a relaxing and anonymous hobby. Let them have a gay guild if they want it, it's not going to bother me. I'd rather not have it since online games would seem to me to be the one place where you can shed your real identity and taking up whatever mantle you want, but apparently that's not possible for some people. I have no idea why that is, but I'm not in the job of controlling how they have fun as long as it doesn't enfringe on someone else's fun.

So is it okay if other people have things that you'd rather not have? Cos', you know, they might like them? Even though they don't fit with your own personal likes and dislikes? I don't want to hear about your alchoholism-as-excuse. It's not as interesteing as where Ironwood puts his Ironwood. As for shedding your RL identity, how many fucking l33t kiddy fucktards do you run into? They're more offensive to me than people wearing their gay guildtag.

Also, get the fuck off my Aussie shithole server. You belong on an RP server. Mi'lord.

[Numtini]

mostly because I'm sick of RL politics (which gay rights are, regardless if you don't want it to be) coming into something that I consider to be a relaxing and anonymous hobby

That's sort of definitive of why GLBT people want GLBT friendly guilds. So it's not an issue that interferes with our gaming.

[Fabricated]

Wait, wait.

Stonewall Champions?

Is this gay-friendly guild argument originating from MY FUCKING SERVER?

No, Fab (nice gay-friendly name you got there, BTW) ;). This argument if you read the original article is from some chick on some other server I can't even remember the name of. Reading comprehension and retention FTW.

Stonewall champions came up as an example of a gey-friendly guild on my server that isn't in your face about their sexuality and shit, since obviously you didn't know they were gay-friendly either.

However, Proudmoore is still an unstable piece of shit. Paelos plays there too.

Wait, you're on there too? I bet I've personally wiped a scholo/strat candy run with you. Small world.

We would've transferred, but we couldn't contact all of our guild members. Doesn't help that our leader and another one of our guildies is off in Iraq either.

[Morfiend]

I disagree. The solution is a guild recruitment channel and no guild recruitment in general chat because it is spam.

And if someone wants to advertise a hacker, cheater, or gold farmer guild in the guild recruitment channel I'm fine with that too.

Funny. In this morning patch, they added a guild recruitment chat channel. Must be thinking along the same lines.

Also, I have to agree with Civik. I have no problem with a GLBT guild. Also, I think its fine to advertise the fact. Do you expect homosexual people just to constantly join guild after guild in hopes of getting the one they want? What about raiders? Should they not beable to advertise that they are a raiding guild? Just gota join and find out?

[WindupAtheist]

How was I hypocritic?

I crush the hypocritics like an overhand right from Riddick.

[Azazel]

Wait, you're on there too? I bet I've personally wiped a scholo/strat candy run with you. Small world.

We would've transferred, but we couldn't contact all of our guild members. Doesn't help that our leader and another one of our guildies is off in Iraq either.

Yeah, for me there's little point transferring, since PM has all of us Aussies on it and that won't be changing until Blizz actually host a few servers somewhere in this part of the world. You're not guilded with paelos are you?  

[Krakrok]

You're being an idiot. And yes, the goldfarmers do have their own guilds. I'm sure the people who want to hax0r the client also congregate with their mates.

Dead horse, you beat. The hypocrite lounge is over that way.

[Fabricated]

Wait, you're on there too? I bet I've personally wiped a scholo/strat candy run with you. Small world.

We would've transferred, but we couldn't contact all of our guild members. Doesn't help that our leader and another one of our guildies is off in Iraq either.

Yeah, for me there's little point transferring, since PM has all of us Aussies on it and that won't be changing until Blizz actually host a few servers somewhere in this part of the world. You're not guilded with paelos are you? 

Nope. I'm in a small but now growing (we're getting some of our guild leader's old friends from a broken up raiding guild that was dissolved by the leader due to drama) extremely-casual guild. Fell Omen. The founder and his fiancee and most of the original members are formerly of EQ.

Oh yeah, if you see someone with our tag named Gavinter, ignore him. It's one of our guildy's kids. I dunno why he lets him play, since he has said himself on more than one occasion that his kid is "an idiot sometimes".

Other than that, I rather like my guild. The server...not so much. The fucked time schedules most of the players are on can get irritating, but I can't really bitch TOO much about it since our main priest lives in France, and we work our 5-mans around him a lot. The server's stability, lag, and bugginess is about the worst I've seen across all my various alts on different servers (ignoring some of the release-day servers, which can be fucked beyond belief). Our Alliance to Horde ratio is really bad too (4:1 at best I think), but again, I'm alliance so I can't really bitch THAT much.

edit: on a more amusing note, I remember someone mentioning "zone break-ins" may be in WoW's future due to Tigole. I had no clue what the hell they were so I asked our guild leader's fiancee, and she immediately said, "OH FUCKING NO, THAT FUCKING SUCKED. CHRIST," and then proceeded to rant and rave about the planes of Hate and Fear for 20 minutes.

[Paelos]

I disagree. The solution is a guild recruitment channel and no guild recruitment in general chat because it is spam.

And if someone wants to advertise a hacker, cheater, or gold farmer guild in the guild recruitment channel I'm fine with that too.

Funny. In this morning patch, they added a guild recruitment chat channel. Must be thinking along the same lines.

Also, I have to agree with Civik. I have no problem with a GLBT guild. Also, I think its fine to advertise the fact. Do you expect homosexual people just to constantly join guild after guild in hopes of getting the one they want? What about raiders? Should they not beable to advertise that they are a raiding guild? Just gota join and find out?

I know I'll once again get shouted at about this, but that's a horrible point. Raiding is an interest inside the game. GLBT/Christian/Parent is a distinction outside the game. Being either of the latter has little to do with what you do in game other than perhaps your time commitments and apparently conversation points. There's a large difference. In addition, it really doesn't matter what I say in this thread at this point, since most of you are looking for a reason to be pissed about something. So have at it, I'll just move along to greener grasses and let this one go.

Also, Azazel makes me laugh. See you in the shithole good buddy.  :-D

[Azazel]

You're being an idiot. And yes, the goldfarmers do have their own guilds. I'm sure the people who want to hax0r the client also congregate with their mates.

Dead horse, you beat. The hypocrite lounge is over that way.

The fact that you're an idiot is something I waas unaware of before this thread. If it's a dead horse I'm beating by saying such, (and you're the one telling me) well I think that says a bit about you that you might want to look into sometime..

[Krakrok]

The fact that you're an idiot is something I waas unaware of before this thread. If it's a dead horse I'm beating by saying such, (and you're the one telling me) well I think that says a bit about you that you might want to look into sometime..

Thanks for trolling.

[MrHat]

Gheymar.

There's a new name for a new character.

[Llava]

It's one of the things that makes freedom great.  We are ALL free to exercise it, not just the christians.

If that were true then everyone would be free to hack, crack, and exploit the client too. Blizzard's house, Blizzard's rules. You're free to try to make them change the rules though.

You think you have a point here.  You do not.

[Krakrok]

You think you have a point here.  You do not.

You have no idea what I think.

What all of you who are continuing to post in this thread for no reason need to understand is that the entire purpose of this thread is now moot. Blizzard implimented a guild recruitment channel. Theoretically, you can now post whatever you want about your guild for recruitment purposes there. People who don't care about potentially "offensive" guild spam no longer have to see it if they do not want to. And people who want to spam for guild recruitment can now do so too without bothering anyone. Theoretically, Blizzard would also have to impliment a policy of no guild recruitment in general chat for it to be a complete solution. I don't know if they have done that.

Anything else is irrelevant.

[Azazel]

Dead horse, you beat. The hypocrite lounge is over that way.

You being an idiot is a dead horse? Thanks for letting me know, I wasn't aware.

Not sure why you're telling me about the hypocrite lounge, but as long as the couches are comfy, I don't give a toss.

[schild]

You know, I think there's a bright future for the word "gaymer" as a slur. Unfortunately that bright future will be completely burnt out by the hordes of under-18 WoW night elf gaymers (sounds better than mangina at least). I'm also surprised it took this long for that word to pop into existance. It's gotta be somewhere years back on usenet or something. I'm telling you, 10 years from now, it'll be part of internet vernacular. Someone trace the history of the fucker before somebody claims they coined it.

[Phred]

I disagree. The solution is a guild recruitment channel and no guild recruitment in general chat because it is spam.

Ask and ye shall receive:

- World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.9.4 (2006-02-09)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General
- A new Guild Recruitment channel has been added.  This channel will be on by default.

And as usual they fucked that up and it's off by default, or it is off for all my existing characters. Maybe it's on by default for newly created characters, but they put an MOTD up telling people how to join it.

[Jayce]

I disagree. The solution is a guild recruitment channel and no guild recruitment in general chat because it is spam.

Ask and ye shall receive:

- World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.9.4 (2006-02-09)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General
- A new Guild Recruitment channel has been added.  This channel will be on by default.

And as usual they fucked that up and it's off by default, or it is off for all my existing characters. Maybe it's on by default for newly created characters, but they put an MOTD up telling people how to join it.

Strikes me as a CYA sort of move:  instead of saying "we were wrong about our own TOS", they can now say "well it is only allowed if you do it in the guild recruitment channel. What? No guild recruitment channel?  Fixed."

[Wasted]

I did tell people not too bite....

It all comes down to the same thing, people trying to dictate what sort of social environment they want to play in and expect everyone to conform to what they deem acceptable.  It will never reach a satisfying consensus to all people, in my opinion learn a little tolernace or crawl back into the cave.  I am aware though, that that is me dictating what sort of social environment I want to play in.  At both ends of the spectrum, whether aggressively confrontational homosexual or blunt bigot, I really dont want to hear your complaints that the world isnt to your liking.

[Velorath]

You know, I think there's a bright future for the word "gaymer" as a slur. Unfortunately that bright future will be completely burnt out by the hordes of under-18 WoW night elf gaymers (sounds better than mangina at least). I'm also surprised it took this long for that word to pop into existance. It's gotta be somewhere years back on usenet or something. I'm telling you, 10 years from now, it'll be part of internet vernacular. Someone trace the history of the fucker before somebody claims they coined it.

Apparently it goes back as far as at least 1991