Gaymers force Blizzard into submission

[Llava]

gaymer is perhaps one of the most irritatingly assinine

Nice.

[Paelos]

I don't think you people understand. It's just gays in this example. I don't want to know ANYTHING about the political, religious, sexual orientation, or any other hot button topics about people I play with. It's the same reason I don't read the politics forum here, I just know it's something I don't want to deal with so I actively avoid it. I'd like people in MMOGs to play the game, not group up on party lines and try to remind everyone they have an agenda in a fucking game.

[Llava]

Understandable, but you have to realize that these people are playing in an environment that is almost always inherently hostile to them.  It's perfectly reasonable for them to try and find people they can count on to not be offensive.

[Dren]

Understandable, but you have to realize that these people are playing in an environment that is almost always inherently hostile to them.  It's perfectly reasonable for them to try and find people they can count on to not be offensive.

Um, I try to find that in MMOGs constantly and it has nothing to do with my sexual orientation.  My solution so far has not been to yell about it in general chat.  Typically, that will get me the exact opposite of my aim.  Once in a great while I go one night playing WoW without being offended or annoyed.  I celebrate by logging off and going to bed.  To do otherwise is inviting doom.

[cevik]

I don't think you people understand. It's just gays in this example. I don't want to know ANYTHING about the political, religious, sexual orientation, or any other hot button topics about people I play with. It's the same reason I don't read the politics forum here, I just know it's something I don't want to deal with so I actively avoid it. I'd like people in MMOGs to play the game, not group up on party lines and try to remind everyone they have an agenda in a fucking game.

I have never in my entire life EVER been in ANY group of people that could avoid, given enough time together, discussing aspects of their personal lives.  When you are spending 4+ hours PER DAY with a group of people, and you don't eventually start talking about something outside of the game, there is actually something mentally wrong with you.  You are broken as a human being.

Asking one person to hide an aspect of their personal life from you because you don't want to hear about it is absurd.  I'm sure that you do not get offended when a married man mentions his wife, or his child.. do you?  Why should a gay man be disallowed from mentioning his loved one?  And if he does want to talk about his loved one with someone much more tolerant than you, why should he not be allowed to seek out people of similar interests as an escape from your bigotry?

[HaemishM]

And if he does want to talk about his loved one with someone much more tolerant than you, why should he not be allowed to seek out people of similar interests as an escape from your bigotry?

It's all about the cock.

[cevik]

It's all about the cock.

If married couples with children were disallowed from forming guilds with other married couples with children, the Christians would be here spewing fire and brimstone about how it's an attack on the family and a disgrace to America.  The very end would be nigh.  But when the GLBT community wants to form a guild, Paelos doesn't want to hear about their "politics"..

[HaemishM]

I actually think he just doesn't want to hear about who they are fucking. Gay is not a political stance, at least not until politicians made it as such.

Much like here, I don't want to hear about who anybody is fucking. But I can see Paelos's point: it's a game, who you put your hooha in outside of the game should have no bearing.

But it does, which is why this whole silliness started. Blizzard GM's were morons for tagging this person and not dickslapping every person they ever see in general chat saying, "That was SO gay." A healthy dose of ignoring would have made this whole thing go away.

[Paelos]

Cevik, the point is that it is absolutely non-essential to the game to talk about your sex preferences or your politics. I can ask you about your day without even touching the surface of your stance on either. It's an internet game, NOBODY IS EVER GOING TO KNOW IF YOU DON'T PUT IT OUT THERE! I don't talk about Christianity or religion in my gaming time. I never tell people about my faith or try to preach to anyone. If people want to talk about their partners, how are we going to know what sex they are? How do we know what sex you are?

My point is that it's a game, and the world is already polarized enough over this kind of crap without having to drag it into playtime for no reason.

[cevik]

If people want to talk about their partners, how are we going to know what sex they are?

Because we are on vent, and it's pretty fucking easy to tell.

How do we know what sex you are?

Because we are on vent, and it's pretty fucking easy to tell.

And as much as you don't want to talk about life in game, the sad fucking reality is, everyone does it.  It's a social game.  You are hanging out with social people.  Talking about social things, almost always in a VoIP application.

The reality is, there is no way that I can spend 99% of my non-game time with another human being (2 in fact) and then spend as much time IN GAME that I do, without mentioning that human being.  In addition, no one has EVER asked me, nor have I ever heard anyone else ever asked another straight (married or just boyfriend/girlfriend) couple to not mention their significant other.  I've never been in a guild where talking about your significant other, or child, is an issue, ever.. and I've been in a fucking lot of guilds.

In fact, I was in a guild with Haemish, where he talked about girlfriend.  And I was in a guild with Righ, where he eventually brought Signe along to play with us as well.  And my wife joined that same guild.  She is now in the same guild as me on WoW.  And no one.. not one single person has EVER complained about all us married people infecting the guild with our "politics" or our "sexual preferences" or our "deviant behavoir".

It would be ABSURD if I had to pretend that I wasn't married to my wife, because it might offend someone about my "sexual preference" in the guild.  If it offends someone, remove them from the guild, they are the fucking asshole with the problem.  It would be absurd if Haemish had to dance around his fiance/girlfriend/whatever she is because someone might be offended to know about his sexual preferences.  AND IT IS ABSURD TO ASK GAY PEOPLE TO PRETEND THEY AREN'T GAY SO THAT YOU ARE HAPPY ABOUT YOURSELF AND NOT BE FACED WITH YOUR SEXUAL INADEQUACIES.

[cevik]

I want to play the game and not think of you as a deviant.

And I want to read this message board without thinking of you as a fucking bigot.  But you go and ruin that every chance you get.  Fucking bigot.

[cevik]

Much like here, I don't want to hear about who anybody is fucking.

You've met my wife and never made a big deal of it before.  We've both met Righ's wife and Signe's husband, and we don't complain to them to stop talking about the fact that they are married.  I've met your girlfriend and I don't complain that you constantly tell me who you are fucking.  We both knew married people in Shadowbane.. fuck our guild leader and his wife played, and we never asked them to keep their relationship under wraps so that we didn't have to have their sexual preferences flaunted in our faces.

In fact.. it seems to only be a problem that applies to gay people.. interesting..

[Hoax]

While Paelos is most certainly being an idiot, I do see the point he is trying to make.

I had a very similar reaction on B.net when tons of morons would band together and make AzN ONLY guilds, it really pissed me off.  Even more so I was pissed off in SC by AZN only games.  It got so annoying that me and two RL friends made a clan in SC with the tag [wht] then went around pretending we were nazi's.  But I was a much younger much stupider person then, not that it still doesn't bother me but I wouldn't bother to react the same way anymore.

Instead I just mentally categorize anyone with boi, flip, azn, thai, etc etc in their character handle as a fucking moron and move on.  But this is no way runs counter to Cevik's point that using terms like "fag" and "gay" as derogatory remarks is commonplace on the internet and therefore people would want to make guilds where that was an understood no-no.

It wouldn't surprise me if Paelos would be pissing blood if somebody in his guild started ripping into another member for saying a bugged spawn was gay and causing untold amounts of internet drama.  RP guilds are formed for just this reason, they want certain language to be used in guild chat and are looking for certain type of social interaction.

[Llava]

Cevik, the point is that it is absolutely non-essential to the game to talk about your sex preferences or your politics. I can ask you about your day without even touching the surface of your stance on either. It's an internet game, NOBODY IS EVER GOING TO KNOW IF YOU DON'T PUT IT OUT THERE! I don't talk about Christianity or religion in my gaming time. I never tell people about my faith or try to preach to anyone.

But if instead of "gay" being an insult, what if "Christian" was an insult?  What if every day you could expect to hear people broadcasting things like, "Thanks to the fucking Christmuncher who trained that spawn on me, fucking christian"?

It's laughable now, because it sounds so ridiculous.  But if you were gay, that's what you're getting- people using aspects of your personality as an insult on others.  If you were in the same situation, you'd probably want to be in a guild where you could rely on not having to hear that shit, too.

Doesn't matter if you put it out there or not- people start on it without any provocation (GAY ASS ROGUES). It's reasonable of them to seek out people on whom they can rely to not do that.

[cevik]

The rest of the world is hostile to you, so you make a little place for like minded people, so you can stay out of the way of bigots like Paelos and avoid hostility.  Then bigots like Paelos come along and scream that they don't want to have to think about you deviants so you just need to not even acknoweldge your own existence because you're making him confront his fears about his own sexuality.

Paelos doesn't have a point at all.

I repeat, I have never seen an issue in any guild anywhere where a married couple was told to mask their identities because it may offend someone in the guild.  If such a thing ever happened, the same bigots that are talking about how horrible it is that gay people are tryinig to avoid them, would be up in arms to the utmost extreme that the very foundations of marriage are under attack.  The very same people in this thread that are telling me they don't want to have to think about "who is fucking who", have, without a moments thought, both told me about their significant others AND introduced me to them without even the slightest concern that I may be "offended".  The only difference here is that the person's significant other is of the same sex.  Suddenly then it becomes an issue of "politics" and "deviance" and must be hidden.

[Krakrok]

So I guess this means none of you would have any problems with advertising other "friendly" guilds in ingame chat either, eh?

Fat friendly?
Abortion friendly?
Bush friendly?
White friendly?
Jesus friendly?
Black friendly?
Disabled friendly?
Dildo friendly?
Castrated friendly?
Ugly friendly?
Non-American friendly?
Korean friendly?
Blond friendly?
Dirty friendly?
Nerd friendly?
French friendly?
Buddha friendly?
Communist friendly?
Arab friendly?
ClintonIn08 Friendly?
Nuke friendly?
BSDM friendly?
Animal friendly?
Lawyer friendly?
Anorexic friendly?
Smoker friendly?
Veteran friendly?
Anorexic French Smoker Fat Jesus Dildo friendly?


Honestly, people who are pro this, where is the line? For me, it's pretty much if you're on an RP server none of it would be allowed otherwise anything goes. However, then you have, should people even be allowed to advertise for guilds in general chat at all? Or should that be restricted to a guild recruitment channel? If you want to join a guild you specifically go to that channel and everyone else doesn't have to get spammed. And that is the solution.

[cevik]

So I guess this means none of you would have any problems with advertising other "friendly" guilds in ingame chat either, eh?

Not a problem at all.  It's one of the things that makes freedom great.  We are ALL free to exercise it, not just the christians.

[Numtini]

Part of why this got so much publicity is that GLBT guilds have thrived in WOW and everyone pretty much thought it was a non-issue. I'm in Spectrum on Garona and we got so large that we had to start dropping alts and inactives because we were hitting the what is it 500 member limit on the Alliance side and we had a few hundred on the Horde side. And nobody seemed to care either way, including the huge Christian guild on the server. When Sara got warned, it really shocked everyone because we thought Blizzard "got it." Well apparently they do. (A marked contrast to SOE btw.)

So I guess this means none of you would have any problems with advertising other "friendly" guilds in ingame chat either, eh?

Nope, no problem.

Don't forget military friendly. Very important right now because some people have gotten booted by twit raiding guilds for inactivity. The inactivity being due to Iraqi or Afghani deployment.

[Krakrok]

It's one of the things that makes freedom great.  We are ALL free to exercise it, not just the christians.

If that were true then everyone would be free to hack, crack, and exploit the client too. Blizzard's house, Blizzard's rules. You're free to try to make them change the rules though.

[cevik]

It's one of the things that makes freedom great.  We are ALL free to exercise it, not just the christians.

If that were true then everyone would be free to hack, crack, and exploit the client too. Blizzard's house, Blizzard's rules. You're free to try to make them change the rules though.

Fucking retard.

[Krakrok]

Fucking retard.

Oh, so you're not down with a Hacker friendly guild then? What about a Gold Farmer friendly guild?

[cevik]

Fucking retard.

Oh, so you're not down with a Hacker friendly guild then? What about a Gold Farmer friendly guild?

Fucking retard.

[Krakrok]

Fucking retard.

I'll take that as a no. I think found the line.

Edit: Your line, anyway.

[cevik]

Fucking retard.

I'll take that as a no. I think found the line.

You've found the line.. the line is, your IQ is so much lower than that of a chimpanze, that there is clearly no reason for this discussion to continue with you in it.

You've taken discussing the social aspects of a persons life.. the meta game.. and said "HARAHAHAHARFHARHAH YOU SAID PEOPLEZ CAN SPLOIT, GOTCHA"

No.. you are a fucking dumbass retard of the utmost degree.  You are so fucking stupid that you are incapable of considering yourself a member of the human fucking race.  If you breed, humanity is doomed.

You are a fucking retard.

EDIT:  Look, you fucking moron, I'll spell it out to you because you are so goddamned stupid that you actually thought you had a fucking point (which, in itself is the saddest thing I've seen all fucking goddamned day).

I have no problem with GLBT guilds.  I do have a problem with GLBT people raping straight people.

I have no problem with Christian guilds.  I do have a problem with christians forcing non-Christians to worship god.

I have no problem with a "Castrated friendly guild".  I do have a problem with forced castrations.

I how no problem with a Lawyer friendly guild.  I do have a problem with you fucking "conservative" retards attempting to change the legal system so your friends, the mega-corporations no longer face liabilities.

I have no problem with people discussing the things they are interested in, I have a problem with people forcing those interests on others.

A "hacker friendly guild" is not anything at all like a "GLBT friendly guild".  One is trying to find like minded people for discussion, the other is trying to affect other's gameplay experience.

If the GLBT were going around /humping everyone that was straight, they should be banned.  If an exploiter is exploiting, they should be banned.

[Fabricated]

Wait, wait.

Stonewall Champions?

Is this gay-friendly guild argument originating from MY FUCKING SERVER?

I HATE MY FUCKING SERVER. GOD.

[Lantyssa]

It's one of the things that makes freedom great.  We are ALL free to exercise it, not just the christians.

If that were true then everyone would be free to hack, crack, and exploit the client too. Blizzard's house, Blizzard's rules. You're free to try to make them change the rules though.

Blizzard seems to think that GLBT-friendly guilds are okay after reviewing the issue.  Blizzard's rules and all.

[Krakrok]

Blizzard seems to think that GLBT-friendly guilds are okay after reviewing the issue.  Blizzard's rules and all.

Fine by me. Gold farmers have rights too.

You've found the line.. the line is, your IQ is so much lower than that of a chimpanze, that there is clearly no reason for this discussion to continue with you in it.

Whereas you have devolved into personal attacks which are always fun but in the end pointless.

[Ironwood]

Much like here, I don't want to hear about who anybody is fucking.

Still fucking the wife, thanks for asking.  That's mine, not yours.  Or anyone else's.  Mine.

Thanks for taking an interest !

[cevik]

Whereas you have devolved into personal attacks which are always fun but in the end pointless.

Because you are too stupid to breath.  Read my edit, you fucking moron.

EDIT: The fact that you actually think you have a point makes me so sad that I have again lost all faith in humanity.  How the fuck you escaped elementary school is fucking mind boggling.  Go back, they forgot to teach you the very basics of reasoning.

[Fabricated]

Much like here, I don't want to hear about who anybody is fucking.

Still fucking the wife, thanks for asking.  That's mine, not yours.  Or anyone else's.  Mine.

Thanks for taking an interest !

pics plzkthx

[HaemishM]

Much like here, I don't want to hear about who anybody is fucking.

You've met my wife and never made a big deal of it before.  We've both met Righ's wife and Signe's husband, and we don't complain to them to stop talking about the fact that they are married.  I've met your girlfriend and I don't complain that you constantly tell me who you are fucking.  We both knew married people in Shadowbane.. fuck our guild leader and his wife played, and we never asked them to keep their relationship under wraps so that we didn't have to have their sexual preferences flaunted in our faces.

In fact.. it seems to only be a problem that applies to gay people.. interesting..

I also didn't advertise in the middle of Ironforge that I had a wife, nor that I was heterosexual and having heterosexual sex. It only came up when we got to be guildmates, and thus removed the barrier of being complete strangers.

Frankly, I have no problem with a 'gay-friendly' guild. More power to them. BUT... and here's where I can certainly see Blizzard's GM being concerned, there's no need to advertise it in a public chat channel UNLESS it's being used as some kind of bargaining chip to gain recruits. In other words, there's no need to mention it unless that's your guild's hook. Sure, when someone gives you a tell about the guild, you can mention that as the first thing that comes out of your mouth: "We are a gay, lesbian, bi and transgender friendly guild. Do you have a problem with that?"

But jumping out there on public chat channels is exactly the same as running pink triangle gay pride parades down main street with flaming queers in assless pants and chaps. It's flaunting shit in my face that quite frankly, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT AND REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE IN PUBLIC. I don't want to see that kind of shit in public chat channels anymore than I want to see "WE ARE DA PWNZORS!" or any other form of retarded mongoloid speech sure to cause a chat riot in the channel. I can absolutely see why Paelos would get annoyed by it. I'm sure he'd get annoyed by pink triangle dress up parades down his block too.

Now, if I was in a guild that told me "You can't mention your wife" I'd probably leave. Because as a guild, we're supposed to be above the level of pure stranger that public chat channels are. But I'd also want someone else to leave if they started spouting off with specifics about their sex life, hetero or not. It ain't part of the game, and I really don't want to be in a guild with SirBruce the Furry Cocksucker, who never knows when to shut up about the amazing Ratman sex he had last night with a stuffed animal.

There are better ways to handle recruitment than this woman's guild chose, and there are better ways to handle the situation than Blizzard did.

[cevik]

I also didn't advertise in the middle of Ironforge that I had a wife, nor that I was heterosexual and having heterosexual sex. It only came up when we got to be guildmates, and thus removed the barrier of being complete strangers.

Frankly, I have no problem with a 'gay-friendly' guild. More power to them. BUT... and here's where I can certainly see Blizzard's GM being concerned, there's no need to advertise it in a public chat channel UNLESS it's being used as some kind of bargaining chip to gain recruits. In other words, there's no need to mention it unless that's your guild's hook. Sure, when someone gives you a tell about the guild, you can mention that as the first thing that comes out of your mouth: "We are a gay, lesbian, bi and transgender friendly guild. Do you have a problem with that?"

And?  What if you had joined the guild THEN found out is was GLBT friendly?  Fuck, at least they are letting you know what you are getting in to.  I've never seen a guild advertised WITHOUT it telling you something about the guild.  And this is a pretty goddamned fundamental something.

[Krakrok]

EDIT: The fact that you actually think you have a point makes me so sad that I have again lost all faith in humanity.  How the fuck you escaped elementary school is fucking mind boggling.  Go back, they forgot to teach you the very basics of reasoning.

Hypocrisy is a bitch, eh?

[HaemishM]

I just said that it should be one of the first things they tell people IN PRIVATE when someone registers an interest. I just don't want to hear about it on public fucking channels, just like I don't want to hear about how people will pwnzor in PVP, or people who are Pittsburgh Steeler fans or other stupid retarded shit that has not one goddamn bit to do with the game.

But this is why I turn general channels off. Because most of the people who take enough time to talk in them on a regular basis should be sterilized, have corks put on their forks, and never allowed to drive.

[Ironwood]

See, it's the word 'deviant'.  It shouldn't have been used.  The whole post needed more thought.  It just came off as wrong and look what it started.

You blew it up.  You fools, you blew it up.  Damn you all to hell.