Vanguard

[Phred]

WoW is the only live game I know of that treats certain specials as 'part of your next swing' instead of making it a completely seperate thing from autoattack(like a WoW rogue's instants), or having it's own damage/delay and having it interrupt autoattack (like other WoW melee specials, and all EQ2 specials).

DAoC had specials queued up for your next attack back when I played, as I remember my warrior getting frustrated weilding a slow 2h sword and not being able to use responce attacks the weapon was so slow the mob would attack again before the responce to it's previous attack went off.

WoW instants no longer interrupt the auto attack btw, but happen between the swings and don't interupt the timer for the next attack. Unless that fix only applied to hunters.

[Venkman]

Yea, DAoC's Combat Styles were actually a pretty innovative system for the time, and would be as relevant today in my opinion. I loved playing my Friar for awhile for this alone. It wasn't twitch, but it wasn't casting bars all the time either. You could just hit auto-attack and watch, and if I recalll, the balance was set up for just that much effort. But it was just more fun to be more engaged.

[HRose]

DAoC had specials queued up for your next attack back when I played, as I remember my warrior getting frustrated weilding a slow 2h sword and not being able to use responce attacks the weapon was so slow the mob would attack again before the responce to it's previous attack went off.

Yeah, that system is pretty much broken. On my minstrel, at level 50 and with a Champion weapon I tested thoroughly a reactive style on evade with low level PvE mobs. It's just IMPOSSIBLE to have it working. The swing speed was slower than the timeframe available for the reactive to happen.

But, then, it's not just DAoC. WoW has reactives as well (and not stupidly timed like DAoC) and there are also other examples.

[Riley]

Reacting to icons in this way does sound like EQ2 crafting.  I expect that many people will respond to that system in the same way they dealt with EQ2 - macros.  I can see the first must-have mod for Vanguard being the one that automatically counters the attack-of-doom no matter what else you may have queued up.  Then the next mod would be the one to queue up your big damage combo.  The game sounds like a multi-boxers dream come true.

I also imagine that certain monsters will have powerful attacks that can only be countered by certain classes.  What better way to FORCE grouping than to make a particular class absolutely needed for certain encounters?

In addition, I'm not sure if they are planning on any PvP in the game, but this type of combat system doesn't sound like it would function well in that regard.

[HaemishM]

The game sounds like a multi-boxers dream come true.

You mean like EQ1?

[squirrel]

DAoC had specials queued up for your next attack back when I played, as I remember my warrior getting frustrated weilding a slow 2h sword and not being able to use responce attacks the weapon was so slow the mob would attack again before the responce to it's previous attack went off.

Yeah, that system is pretty much broken. On my minstrel, at level 50 and with a Champion weapon I tested thoroughly a reactive style on evade with low level PvE mobs. It's just IMPOSSIBLE to have it working. The swing speed was slower than the timeframe available for the reactive to happen.

But, then, it's not just DAoC. WoW has reactives as well (and not stupidly timed like DAoC) and there are also other examples.

Well, i won't say the system isn't broken, but i will say you missed out on how to make it work. The thing with DAoC is you have to have queued your evade style up *before* you could even know if you'd evaded or not. Fortunatley the engine allowed you to do this. On my pierce specc'ed nightshade this was key to winning fights (nightshades evade a lot and hib pierce has a 6 sec stun based on evade.)

Anyway here's how you make it work (roughly, been awhile since i played DAoC):

Let's say you have 4 styles set up on keys 1-4.

1 -  is a follow up style for style 3
2  - is your evade style
3 - anytime style is first in chain before style 1
4 - second evade based style (assassins had a high damage evade style called hamstring i think)

So basically in every fight you mash buttons 1,2,3 in rapid succession. Because DAoC won't fire a style that hasn't met it's pre-req (chain or reaction) what will happen is when you hit 1 it won't fire the chain style unless you've already pressed 3, when you hit 2 it won't fire the evade unless you've evaded so when you hit 3 it will fire the opening anytime style. Next round it will fire 1 because the chain has started and will ignore 2, 3 as you've already queued a style. At any time if you evade it will almost certainly fire your evade style because it comes before your anytime. Often i'd just hit 2,3 if i wanted to ensure the stun would fire. Once you hit the stun just pound 4 as it will keep firing until you're attacked again. (this sucked for the opponent because it meant you could be hit by the high damage evade attack 2 or 3 times while stunnes as the game registered the evade of the last attack.)

Anyway, there might be some small errors above, been awhile, but that's the gist of it.

[Fenom]

Is there a game out there that any of you actually like?   

[SuperPopTart]

You really don't have a clue where you are, do you ? :(

[schild]

Is there a game out there that any of you actually like?   

Resident Evil 4.

[Murgos]

I like UFO:Enemy Unknown.  Everything since then has been a let down.

[tazelbain]

Chip & Dales: Rescue Rangers

[HaemishM]

Is there a game out there that any of you actually like?   

I like WoW, I just don't pay for it right now.

I like The Movies (despite its flaws), I like Jade Empire and NHL 2k6 and X-Men Legends and Need for Speed Underground and ESPN MLB 2k5. This year I've enjoyed Destroy all Humans, Resident Evil 4, Obscure, Freedom Force vs. the 3rd Reich, Guild Wars, KOTOR1, and a few others.

But Vanguard? Fuck no.

[Fenom]

I think it looks promising and will keep an open mind on this one for sure.  And most of the games I see listed are not MMOs.  You really dont like people do you?

[HaemishM]

No, I really don't.

[Swede]

Is there anyone who actually likes people? I mean i can tolerate persons, but people....?... )

[Murgos]

I think it looks promising and will keep an open mind on this one for sure.  And most of the games I see listed are not MMOs.  You really dont like people do you?

I am looking forward to this.

[schild]

Diablo 3: The FUTURE? Shocking. So am I.

[Sky]

Is there a game out there that any of you actually like?   

Tons. Just not mmo.

Well, I like Planetside. Gothic 2 is rpg love, it's what Ultima wishes it had become instead of UO or U9. GTA:SA is pure gaming goodness. SimGolf is one of the greatest little games ever made. HoMaM, Civ, SMAC, there's tons of great games out there...but many more of various levels of shit.

You really dont like people do you?

Go stand in walmart parking lot and try to get 5 other people to go help you move furniture for a few hours. That's mmo grouping to me.

[schild]

You really dont like people do you?

Go stand in walmart parking lot and try to get 5 other people to go help you move furniture for a few hours. That's mmo grouping to me.

You're not offering enough 40s and clean socks. That description, btw, is the best description of MMOGs I've ever read.

[WayAbvPar]

I would rather play Horizons for a month than even enter a Walmart parking lot. I call our local one 'a wretched hive of scum and villainy'.

[Lordofchance]

Meh my local walmart isnt that bad until what i like to call "poverty week" hits.

If your ever feeling down go to a walmart the week that welfare checks are given out and you will instantly feel better about your self.

In general, I believe vangaurd looks very promising for an MMO.  From what I heard about and saw at E3 it looks like it might do very well.

[schild]

It's a high profile title that'll be well advertised. It'll do well based simply on that. It helps that it's probably coming out for the 360 as well. Maybe they'll implement keyboard/mouse gameplay. Then it would at least get a look from me. But will it be a good mmog? No, probably not. I don't think McQuaid can make a good MMOG. He doesn't have the vision or mojo to do it.

[Merusk]

Meh my local walmart isnt that bad until what i like to call "poverty week" hits.

While I know of what you speak, it's always 'poverty week' in Kentucky.

derail
It's only 15 miles and a short jaunt across the river, but the Wal*Mart here attracts an everyday crowd as pitiful and wretched as the 'poverty week' crowd I had the misfortune of hitting one time because I needed a car battery for my sister at 5pm on a Sunday.  I haven't been back since that day because I fear the Kentucky poverty weekers.  If I can't get it at Target or Meijer, it can wait.

[Lordofchance]

Meh my local walmart isnt that bad until what i like to call "poverty week" hits.

While I know of what you speak, it's always 'poverty week' in Kentucky.

derail
It's only 15 miles and a short jaunt across the river, but the Wal*Mart here attracts an everyday crowd as pitiful and wretched as the 'poverty week' crowd I had the misfortune of hitting one time because I needed a car battery for my sister at 5pm on a Sunday.  I haven't been back since that day because I fear the Kentucky poverty weekers.  If I can't get it at Target or Meijer, it can wait.

I currently reside in bum f*ck Oklahoma, thank god I am moving soon, so its not much better.  Working in retail has trained me to be able to block out most of these people.

[Fabricated]

Man, quite a few stuck up people here. There's a range of stuff I have no problem grabbing from WalMart since they typically beat everyone in town on the prices. Dear god, I had to rub elbows with THE UNCLEAN. I mean, can you believe that they even let minorities in there?

(edited for people who may fail at internet sarcasm)

[Rasix]

I'll pay extra to not watch dad beat junior in the vitamin aisle and then wait 30 minutes in line because Peggy Sue Johnson got her credit card declined and is now being dragged away because she can't stop crying.

[Fabricated]

I'll pay extra to not watch dad beat junior in the vitamin aisle and then wait 30 minutes in line because Peggy Sue Johnson got her credit card declined and is now being dragged away because she can't stop crying.

You see, I'd find that all pretty funny actually.

[Signe]

I have still never been to a Walmart.  I'll have to go sometime... it sounds scary.

As for the topic... I'm sure Vanguard will be ass like every other MMO.  I don't mind, though... I've been playing assy games for years now.

[Typhon]

That's the spirit!

[Fenom]

This is all make believe.. Dont you get it?  Click your heals together and say, "there's no place like assness." 

[Simond]

It's a high profile title that'll be well advertised. It'll do well based simply on that.

To rephrase (framed by my own opinions and biases) - it'll do well based on the old EQ MMOG scale (i.e. 300K tops) for about six months. Then it'll either crash, or Microsoft will take over and drag it - kicking and screaming - towards WoW-style gameplay.

[Raguel]

ditto on UFO. I also like Seven Kingdoms and -god help me- Madden '06 (in my defense though, this is the first one I've played in over a decade, so there).

I'll probably at least try out any open betas, but at the moment the only one I think I'd actually pay to play would be Seed:

http://208.64.64.65/news.php

[schild]

I've been watching Seed for a while now. Who knows when anyone'll get to play it though.

[Strazos]

WalMart makes me nauseous.

[Fenom]

I've been watching Seed for a while now. Who knows when anyone'll get to play it though.

Now that game truly looks like ass!