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Author Topic: I was (mostly) wrong. Enhancement Diversification  (Read 27026 times)
Llava
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Rrava roves you rong time


on: October 30, 2005, 01:23:55 AM

I've rebuilt four characters so far with enhancement diversification in mind.  I have two more still to rebuild, and they are the ones about which I remain most apprehensive.  I still do not believe I can maintain a reasonable level of power for my human-specialist Warshade.

That being said.

Of the four characters I've rebuilt, one is slightly less fun, the other three are more fun.

Ashen Eidolon, my Controller, is now reliant on much more diverse methods of control- throwing out a Spectral Terror each fight, using Decoys as frequently as they're available, holding, and using his Radiation secondary to keep everything debuffed and largely harmless.  I don't think he's either more or less powerful than he was- but he's more interactive, more diverse, and just plain more interesting to play.  Flash and EM Pulse are now useful tools, but they don't trivialize Blind the way they used to.  I'll admit that more than once previously I asked myself "Why am I bothering to use Blind? It's just one enemy."  That thought didn't cross my mind today.

Llava, my Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper, is not as fast paced as he was before.  He's also not as durable, as I'm finding myself hit somewhat more.  The recent bonuses to the passives have helped that somewhat, but to be honest I haven't really noticed them.  What I did notice is that I've gone from an attack chain consisting largely of three or four powers to an attack chain of at least 6 powers, frequently 7.  This is not a bad thing.  With a rebalanced Martial Arts set, there's not so much cherry-picking to be done.  Just about every power is useful in its own way (though I still debate how much a Scrapper wants a Taunt power, especially given our increased squishiness).  Thunder Kick, Storm Kick, Crane Kick, Crippling Axe Kick and Eagle's Claw are my 1-5.  Build Up is 6, and I usually use that before throwing down a Dragon's Tail- number 8.  Number 7 is the one that gets used depending on the situation- Cobra Strike, a power I never really used before now.  Suddenly, stunning a Lieutenant is worth it.  This character, however, is level 50.  At lower levels, mileage may vary.  But overall, this guy is more fun to play.

Dullahan, my Sonic/EM Blaster has gone from "try to put out as much damage as possible" to "try to lock down as much as you can, then strategically apply attacks to maximize safety while doing damage".  I think I lucked out a bit, as there's quite a bit of syngergy between Sonic Blast and Energy Melee.  I generally open on a group with Siren's Song, a cone sleep with minor damage, then pick a target and nail him with Stun from Energy Melee.  Follow that with Energy Punch and Bonesmasher and most are dead by then.  Next target, nail with Scream and Shout, Shriek if they're still not dead, another Energy Punch if they're still not down after that.  Take it from there.  Almost like a Dominator in playstyle now, I was bored with this character before and now I'm not.  More fun, good good.

Gin is my Dark/Dark Scrapper.  He's the one who's less fun.  I was very happy with my high speed chain of quick attacks before ED, but they are impossible to pull off without permanent Hasten. (Maybe I could pull it off, but I'd be sacrificing some damage.  I'll copy to Test and see if that works out, someday.)  Before he used permanent Hasten to cycle through Shadow Punch, Boxing, and Smite.  It was fun.  Wham, Thunk, Pow, Thunk, Wham, Pow, Thunk, nonstop.  I still don't care for Midnight Grasp aesthetically, so I decided to continue to avoid it.  Now I use Shadow Punch, Smite, Boxing, Shadow Maul, and Air Superiority.  A while ago I did use Air Superiority as part of my attack chain, but I respecced out of it because it was just a bit slower than I liked.  I was very happy with Boxing, Shadow Punch, Smite.  I regret that being taken away.  I also regret losing the very fast recharge speed I had on Dark Consumption, which worked nicely with the heavily slotted for end. reduction Dark Regeneration that I had.  I'd get low on health, drain everyone around me and get back to full health, and if I got low on Endurance I'd just suck that up as well.  Now, I'm slower, I don't deal as much damage, I take more damage, and I'm less able to fix it.  Does the character still work?  Yes.  And pretty well.  But it's not as much fun as it was.

I expect my results with my Warshade to be similar to my results with Gin.  I also expect my Storm/Rad Defender to still feel like there's not much synergy between his two sets, and like he's really missing a niche.  But that's how he is now, so I can't exactly blame that on ED.

So far, though, ED gets a rating of:
 smiley smiley smiley :-(
Or, to put it more simply:
 undecided

EDIT:  All that said, I think the way this was handled was awful.  Directly after a HUGE batch of nerfs, people are coping, figuring out how play is happening, assured that no more big changes are on the way, then this is announced in a way that seems almost reluctant, as if they wanted to slip it past us (whether they wanted to or not- the way it was announced made it seem like that), to say things like "We want you to test it so we can refine the patch notes" and generally give the players the impression that whether or not we like this system, it's going live, then for it to only have, what, one or two weeks of testing before being pushed to live?  And the dev team couldn't give us any examples or solid reasons why this would improve fun or diversity, just "It's more fun, and suits our vision."  Awfully handled, I'm still grumbling about that.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 01:36:42 AM by Llava »

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Signe
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Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 03:36:51 AM

So I suppose that Statesman was right... you just didn't know how to play your characters before so he needed to teach you.  What a guy!

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Rodent
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Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 04:16:26 AM

My Mind/Kinetics Controller plays pretty much the same after ED then before, supposedly Kinetics will be the next flavor of the month with Speed Boost, but we'll see. So far no harm no foul.

Now my Fire/Fire tank, ye gods. Much like the controller he plays pretty much the same as before, only worse in every conceivable way but endurance drain. He takes more damage and deals less damage, single targets in particular. Good thing CoV's out tomorrow because right now playing a tank is about as fun as playing an FPS with a gamepad.

Wiiiiii!
Alkiera
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Reply #3 on: October 30, 2005, 07:25:04 PM

My BS/Inv scrapper, lvl 45, plays about the same, except for the whole doing a LOT less damage thing.  Headsplitter was utterly destroyed...  It went from being a major slow heavy hitter to merely a good damage attack, when I replaced 2 of the (now pretty much useless) damages I had in it with recharges.  A crit will still kill a not-too-resistant minion, but even buildup is not enough to kill a minion without a crit.

On the other hand, ED does make Aim and Build Up type powers a lot more useful...  They only effect the base damage, so many people shrugged them off as the bonus from enhancements far overshadowed the boost from BU...  now that you can't get much over 110% in enhnacements, the +75-100% from BU is looking pretty good.

Finally, a friend of mine really likes playing a sonic/sonic defender... which makes me truly nigh invulnerable(caps everything but psionic resist, pretty much), and puts my damage back up near i5 numbers due to resist debuffs.  I love me some Disruption Field...  it's a toggle he casts on me, reduces the dmg resistance of everything in melee range around me by a good bit.  In i5, I could get crits in excess of 1400 damage on headsplitter by using buildup on a heavily debuffed mob.  Now, I can still manage 900ish on crits, but not near what I could before.

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Llava
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Rrava roves you rong time


Reply #4 on: October 30, 2005, 08:42:37 PM

It was reverse MMOG engineering.

When you boost one thing, people inevitably complain that it's a stealth nerf to something else. 

So they nerfed damage and defense, and suddenly utility powers seem WAY more useful.

Those clever bastards.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #5 on: October 30, 2005, 08:45:00 PM

Even though I didn't speak to any Cryptic folks, having spoken to the NCSoft peoples, it seems they are a lot smarter than I gave them credit for...

...hell, almost everyone was. Almost everyone.
Margalis
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Reply #6 on: October 30, 2005, 09:12:54 PM

Maybe that's why people get annoyed at the "devs are stupid" rants that they read here sometimes. It just isn't that simple. Whenever you make any sort of product at a company there are conflicting interests, money concerns, schedule conserns, personal politics, etc.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
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Reply #7 on: October 30, 2005, 09:32:52 PM

Well, some changes are really transparent. Most of the time you can blame the publisher. Fortunately NCSoft isn't the sort of publisher you blame for this sort of thing with the "it'll ship when it's ready" motto. They care about their games. I really don't think EA cares about their games. They might, but it doesn't show...at all.
Llava
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Reply #8 on: October 30, 2005, 10:19:46 PM

I really do have to give them credit.  I'm sure the gnashing of teeth will continue for some time to come, and in some cases it's justified (tankers, in particular, were hit VERY hard by this) but for the most part, mission accomplished: the game IS more fun.

Holy shit.  The developers knew the game better than the players.  THEY DO PLAY IT!  MY WORLD IS CRUMBLING

I really do need to rebuild my Warshade and Defender to see how they work out, though, before I come to a final decision for myself.  I do regret that I don't have any decent level Tankers, so I really can't report on how they're doing except through hearsay- reliable hearsay, but hearsay nonetheless.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Typhon
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Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 04:03:12 AM

I have a Fire/Energy tank (42) that I'm not too worried about, I only solo, and I only play him as a scapper anyway (no taunt, no burn).  There is occasional waiting for an attack to recycle so I have ways to slot the powers that will soften the blow.

My fire/fire blaster (32) I'm worried about - he doesn't (didn't) have end problems, my single target attacks recycle very quickly, my AE attacks... I shouldn't be using that often or I'll be sucking dirt... what am I suppose to slot?  I have very few of the /fire set cause melee damage in a blaster seems stupid to me.

My storm/elec still won't play like a corrupter, and I'll still be disappointed by that, so I still won't play him (stuck at 34).

Played my Dark/SR scrapper and noticed no differences because he was my "hard" character, very few defenses chosen, very lite slotting of those defenses - so, nothing to compare to here.

So mostly I can reslot, or don't have to but really I don't see the point. My fragile desire to play the CoH game is gone.  Additionally, I am really starting to resent that I don't know how large a value is when slotting - how much end does a power use?  How long is it's recharge?  If I had numbers, I could make an informed decision on where I wanted to put end redux or rechargers, but I still have no good info at the time I'm reslotting.  In what way is giving me percentage increase/reduction better then giving me the numbers?

From the perspective that ED will revitalize the game, for me, was a failure, and I'm guessing that I'm not the only one in this category.  I'll play CoV till the shiny is gone, or something new comes along, or I suddenly discover that CoH/CoV PvP is fun (was in Bloody Bay during beta, had some fun, I'm leaving open the possibility that I could have fun with this for awhile) but I'm likely not here to stay.  Harder isn't going to be less boring, harder is just going to increase the frustration factor.
Signe
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Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 04:55:51 AM

Bloody fanbois.  Not you, Typhon, you're still okay... and I agree with you, ED has NOT made my existing characters more fun to play.  Quite the contrary.  My main, ma/regen scrapper, is completely meh.  It doesn't matter for now, however, as I've stopped playing my higher level heroes completely and have started a new set of villains.  I'm playing powersets that I have little experience with so I don't compare so much. Some people compensate by respeccing, but I can't be arsed to do it yet again.  I compensate by starting over and forgetting that my previous game ever existed.  We'll see how long I last.

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Alkiera
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Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 06:50:23 AM

Bloody fanbois. 

While I have enjoyed the game in the past, I'm hardly a fanboy.  I still enjoy the game now, tho not nearly as much as I did back in i4...  There is the nice advantage that by the lvl 40-45 contacts, they have enough missions per contact that I can completely avoid the villains I don't care to fight.  Rikti and Nemesis aren't a big deal, and now that I have teleport, I pwn the Knives of Artemis...  but I have yet to face a single Circle of Thorns since the late 30's, except ones from other people's missions(20% fire resist 4tlose!).  I can take or leave the Malta Group, and don't need to see another carny ever if I so desire.

Really, I'm seriously considering picking up a new game just to experience something... different.  CoV is an awful lot similar to CoH, tho the villain ATs play differently, everything else is the same.  I could get that same effect, + new enemies, game systems, etc etc, for the same $50.

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Signe
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Reply #12 on: October 31, 2005, 09:20:02 AM

Not you, Alkiera... I'm just teasing Llava.  He's too easy.  CoV doesn't feel very different to me, either.  I enjoy it when I play, but I don't find myself compelled to play, really.  Maybe I'm just 'gamed out' at the moment, dunno.  I've been mucking about with a beta from time to time, but as far as the games that are out right now...  nothing jumps out at me, either.  If you find something wonderful, let me know!

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Llava
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Reply #13 on: October 31, 2005, 09:21:40 AM

I've made no secret about my fanboi-ism.

But I'm always careful to point out that this is how I feel, someone with less fanboi might feel differently.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #14 on: October 31, 2005, 10:00:59 AM

I've made no secret about my fanboi-ism.

But I'm always careful to point out that this is how I feel, someone with less fanboi might feel differently.

Sure.  My scrapper is the only char I have high enough to be affected by ED.  He's not notably worse than he was before.  Sure, his resists are down a few percentage points... but I was okay solo in i5, and I'm still okay solo in i6.  He's certainly not any more fun, and not really any less fun to play.  The biggest downer is the need to respec every few months after major changes to the game.  I came back in May or June, respec'd then.  Then again when i5 hit, and again for i6.  And I've spent far more time agonizing over figuring out how to do those respecs... copying to test, running a respec, running a mission to check out the changes, comparing it to how well it works on Live, etc.  It's just a lot of effort to figure out what the changes actually are(because they can't seem to reliably tell us everything that changed, or exactly how things have changed), and the changes sometimes mean major changes in the playability of certain powersets.

It just cheeses me off, all the rebuilding.  It's fun once or twice, but over and over and over?  Not really.

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Llava
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Rrava roves you rong time


Reply #15 on: October 31, 2005, 07:02:19 PM

It just cheeses me off, all the rebuilding.  It's fun once or twice, but over and over and over?  Not really.

I absolutely agree.  Notice that I haven't rebuilt my Warshade or Defender yet.  It's because I'm dreading trying to figure out a way for them to work.

But I don't bother copying to test anymore.  Too much trouble, and I've got too many characters.  If I ruin one, oh well, I'll either go get him another respec or I'll retire him until the next free respec comes along :p

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Typhon
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Reply #16 on: November 01, 2005, 03:52:19 AM

Llava you don't need to apologize for still liking the game, we're just jealous... you happy bastard.

I agree with Signe, nothing else appeals to me.  WoW would be good, if WoW had PvP that wasn't so absurd (I feel like a hamster on a wheel with WoW PvP, it's not even alittle bit good at hiding that I'm on a treadmill to nowhere).
Alkiera
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Reply #17 on: November 01, 2005, 07:11:01 AM

Llava you don't need to apologize for still liking the game, we're just jealous... you happy bastard.

I agree with Signe, nothing else appeals to me.  WoW would be good, if WoW had PvP that wasn't so absurd (I feel like a hamster on a wheel with WoW PvP, it's not even alittle bit good at hiding that I'm on a treadmill to nowhere).

I've admittedly been tempted to pick up WoW just to remind myself how much I dislike loot and level based games, so CoH will feel great again.  At least it's only level based...

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Lum
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Reply #18 on: November 01, 2005, 07:22:33 AM

Even though I didn't speak to any Cryptic folks, having spoken to the NCSoft peoples, it seems they are a lot smarter than I gave them credit for...

...hell, almost everyone was. Almost everyone.

Some of us are still stupid!
Signe
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Reply #19 on: November 01, 2005, 07:32:39 AM

I never thought you were stupid, Lum... I just figured you were really, really stoned all the time. 

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kaid
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Reply #20 on: November 01, 2005, 07:58:01 AM

The only character I had who is really effected much by ED is my force field defender. almost all my primary powers have 1 and only 1 viable enhancment which is defense. Endurance is never an issue with these powers nor is recharge so about all you can slot in them is Defense. Its kinda funny but with ED almost all my primary powers are now 3 maybe 4 slotted and secondary and power pools wind up getting 5 or 6 slotted.

Seems odd that one would enhance their primary powers far less than they would their secondary stuff but its just how it works out. Now for my storm/psi defender hell I don't even notice ED at all I was already spread out pretty equally.

kaid
Alkiera
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Reply #21 on: November 01, 2005, 08:03:58 AM

The only character I had who is really effected much by ED is my force field defender. almost all my primary powers have 1 and only 1 viable enhancment which is defense. Endurance is never an issue with these powers nor is recharge so about all you can slot in them is Defense. Its kinda funny but with ED almost all my primary powers are now 3 maybe 4 slotted and secondary and power pools wind up getting 5 or 6 slotted.

Seems odd that one would enhance their primary powers far less than they would their secondary stuff but its just how it works out. Now for my storm/psi defender hell I don't even notice ED at all I was already spread out pretty equally.

kaid

Aye, this has done some weird things to the status quo.  I still have 6 slots in my scrapper primaries, and my secondary looks similar (didn't 6-slot much there in i5, either) , but my power pools have gone from being either 1 slot or 6 slots, to lots of 2s, 3s and 4s.

Alkiera

"[I could] become the world's preeminent MMO class action attorney.  I could be the lawyer EVEN AMBULANCE CHASERS LAUGH AT. " --Triforcer

Welcome to the internet. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used as evidence against you in a character assassination on Slashdot.
Stormwaltz
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Reply #22 on: November 01, 2005, 09:16:50 AM

Just to be bandwagonesque...

My Storm/Psi defender (31) was unaffected, since she never had more than two enhancements of any sort. The exception was Stamina, which had four. The changes to End drain appear to have countered that loss, though.

My Claws/Reflexes scrapper (21) was left unplayable and mired in debt after the I5 defense nerf. With all her 3-4x enhancement defense powers nerfed again, I've been forced to write her off as time wasted.

Incidentally, I voted with my wallet and cancelled my sub because of the nerfs. I only play my defender with the guys at work, most of the time I soloed as the scrapper. My CoH play has dropped from ~20 hours a week to ~6 hours a week.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

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Glazius
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Reply #23 on: November 02, 2005, 06:43:22 AM

The only character I had who is really effected much by ED is my force field defender. almost all my primary powers have 1 and only 1 viable enhancment which is defense
Uh, it's not even a majority.

Personal Force Field - yeah, slot defense, but it's a turtle power.
Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield, Dispersion Bubble - defense here, yeah, but -end for Dispersion wouldn't be bad either.
Force Bolt, Repulsion Field, Repulsion Bomb - knockback? End cost? Recharge? No defense here.
Detention Field - accuracy and intangibility if you like that sort of stuff.
Force Bubble - pretty sure that's -end only.

You know, with ragdoll physics in play, knockback powers are more valuable now, since it takes NPCs more time to get up from their crumpled heap, though PC-on-PC knockback isn't ragdolled, that I've seen.

Still. Why must Force Field be a purely defensive set? You've got just as many powers to knock enemies down as you have to boost your allies' defense.

--GF
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Reply #24 on: November 02, 2005, 04:19:19 PM

People will have to adjust to knockback being desirable.  Melee used to hate knockback because they had to chase down enemies after they were knocked back.  With the changes, it seems like groups will need to focus on one enemy or a small set of enemies, with the rest being knocked back to keep them out of melee.

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Llava
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Reply #25 on: November 02, 2005, 04:36:37 PM

People will have to adjust to knockback being desirable.  Melee used to hate knockback because they had to chase down enemies after they were knocked back.  With the changes, it seems like groups will need to focus on one enemy or a small set of enemies, with the rest being knocked back to keep them out of melee.

Really, the "oh no I have to move 2 yards" excuse was bullshit.

There were two good reasons to dislike Knockback:
1) It spread enemies apart instead of bunching them together, meaning that AE attacks would hit fewer targets.  This is still true, but less so as AE caps have been imposed and herding has been limited.
2) Unyielding Stance, which Invulnerability tankers and scrappers needed to remain protected from status effects, used to immobilize its user.  Since they had to shut that off, move over to the enemy, then turn it back on, it was risky and inconvenient.  Unyielding has since been reworked and this is no longer an issue- however, the Stone Armor power "Rooted" is similar (except its effect is a Slow, not an immobilize).  It was exponentially worse for Invulnerability, though, as their survivability greatly depended on how many enemies were actually in close range, thanks to Invincibility.  Stone Armor doesn't lose defense for having enemies knocked away.

With the increased lockdown time of Knockdown, making it actually significantly delay enemy attacks instead of trying to just prevent them from using melee, it is quite a desireable effect now.  I do not know, however, if it would be desireable to enhance this effect.  Most of the delay in enemy attacks is due to the time it takes them to get back up, not the time they spend flying through the air.  Knockback Enhances, unless they've been changed, would only improve the latter.  While it's fun to see how far you can send an enemy flying, it's not really that useful.  If it enhanced the length of time they spend laying on the ground before standing back up, it would be better.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Nevermore
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Reply #26 on: November 02, 2005, 04:50:00 PM

There was one other reason melees didn't like Knockback back in the day.  It used to be you couldn't use a melee power on a moving target.  Knockback creates moving targets (both the initial knockback and the getting up and running around).  Running villains used to be loathed by tanks and scrappers until they changed the code.  Now running villains are merey disliked.

Over and out.
Llava
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Reply #27 on: November 02, 2005, 04:58:21 PM

There was one other reason melees didn't like Knockback back in the day.  It used to be you couldn't use a melee power on a moving target.  Knockback creates moving targets (both the initial knockback and the getting up and running around).  Running villains used to be loathed by tanks and scrappers until they changed the code.  Now running villains are merey disliked.

Yes, true.  Good point, forgot about that.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Rodent
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Reply #28 on: November 03, 2005, 03:40:49 AM

As a Mind/Kinetics controller I tend to grumble about knockback as well. I can no longer count the amount of times a blaster has whined for getting no heals and then knocked away the minion I've been trying to get close enough to get a heal in.

Wiiiiii!
Typhon
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Reply #29 on: November 03, 2005, 04:05:04 AM

I love my bro dearly, but he had an energy blaster that duo'd with my fire/energy tank.  His solo routine was to blast the nearest enemy, which I have to admit works pretty well for a solo energy blaster.  He'd use this same routine when we were grouped and I wanted to brain him.  Not being able to punch things was infuriating, so ya, knockback pretty much sucked.

If they'd add a chance for longer periods of getting up (like the devouring earth) and/or additional damage (villian slams into a wall) I think it would both be "more comic booky" and more desireable... but I also think they should have been more liberal in spreading it throughout the powersets - people are constantly get knocked about in the comic books, every set should have acouple powers with the chance to knockback. (this also removes the stigma from some powersets, and makes folks think alittle more about the situation that they use powers with knockback in).
dEOS
Terracotta Army
Posts: 91


Reply #30 on: November 07, 2005, 08:32:26 AM

I have:

Ill/Rad controller lvl 38 - still not respecced - not sure I want to play her again

Fire/EM tank lvl 35 - respecced - didn't play her except for a few minutes in Warbug before I realized how toggle-dropping killed any PvP capabilities for tanks

Dark/Dark defender lvl 33 - not respecced - not sure I want to play her... beyong super-slow to level solo and finding decent teams is a pain.

Spines/Inv scrapper lvl 29 - respecced - had fun with him in Siren's Call - Accumulated 3 bubbles of debt while doing so - Wondering if I should make him my main.

Inv/SS tank lvl 26 - not respecced - no desire to play her anymore given my PvP experience + nerfs (and one more on the way) for Invuln

En/En blaster lvl 25 - not respecced - being a blaster is nice if you find decent teams, sadly they are hard to find in pickup mode... Not sure I want to play a blaster anyway since they are so monolithic in their gameplay anyway.

Ice/Stone tank lvl 18 - not respecced but leveled with ED in mind - fun character, a bad tank but fun :) Considering playing this hero almost exclusively.

-

Dark/EA brute lvl 13.5 - suffering from dramatic infamy shortage... hard to tell if my powers are any good, I am just dead meat most of the time due to my secondary ineffectiveness and my lack of accuracy.

-

ED has made me pull back from my altaholism habit. Pickup groups have been hit hard... by making the holy trinity (tank+healer+dmg dealer) necessary to let a team function. I have no intention of spending more time to handle groups / divas... I certainly won't play nice anymore with people. I won't spend time to try to finish missions with a badly built group.

CoH - Freedom
WoW - EU Servers - Sargeras [French-PvP]
Valmorian
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1163


Reply #31 on: November 07, 2005, 08:41:05 AM

Quote
Pickup groups have been hit hard... by making the holy trinity (tank+healer+dmg dealer) necessary to let a team function.

This is utter nonsense.  There's no need for a tank+healer+dmg dealer to have an effective team in CoH, even post-ED.


Also, my Energy/Fire Tank has been my most effective character in PvP. 
Llava
Contributor
Posts: 4602

Rrava roves you rong time


Reply #32 on: November 07, 2005, 10:09:51 AM

Ill/Rad controller lvl 38 - still not respecced - not sure I want to play her again

I recommend giving it a shot.  I was bored and not having fun with my Ill/Rad Controller at level 40.  ED hit and, for whatever reason, I started enjoying him much more.

But, as with everything, ymmv.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
Nevermore
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Posts: 4740


Reply #33 on: November 07, 2005, 10:43:00 AM

My Ill/Rad was nearly untouched by ED as well, but I had always slotted my Phantom Army for damage instead of recharge anyway.  I mostly play Controllers and none of them were affected much by ED.  I5 had a much bigger impact on them.

Over and out.
Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779


Reply #34 on: November 08, 2005, 11:19:34 AM

I have rarely played with a tank, healer and damage dealer in either CoH or CoV.  It has just never seemed necessary, given all the holding powers of controllers and now dominators.

I have been playing with mission difficulty, and tried setting it to the midpoint (vicious in CoV).  It's really necessary with a group to set it higher in order to not get bored, I've found.  If you have 3 MMs in a group (which is common, so many masterminds) and a dom or two, the rest can be anything.  In fact, there doesn't seem to be any sort of group makeup that would fail, as long as your group has no Leroys.

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