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Author Topic: DAOC - Darkness Rising Expansion  (Read 161886 times)
AlteredOne
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Reply #35 on: October 20, 2005, 05:32:48 PM

I wish you could also have listened to those that offered those comments for *years*. And yes, about the newbie experience and, yes, even if they come from experienced players.

Oh, I think Mythic has been fairly responsive over the years.  It's just that their responses tend to be driven by a sort of "what's easiest for the developer" mentality.  Just take Catacombs...  They obviously wanted to make the game much easier to join with new introductory quests and an incredibly fast levelling path (relative to years past).  They even added a pretty impressive number of new dungeons and instances.   Yet the whole expansion suffered from a feeling of bugginess, copy-pastedness, and general tedium.  Yes I can get to level 50 in a couple of days on a Vampiir in the task dungeons, but by god could those dungeon runs possibly be any more repetitive?  Not to mention, could Vampiirs be any cheesier as a class?  Talk about the ultimate soloer's OMGIWINKTHXBYE class. 

This is all coming from a guy who still generally likes DAOC and hasn't quite managed to cancel after re-subscribing for Catacombs.  I guess that's why guys like me and Hrose keep posting about DAOC.  Mythic frustrates us to hell, but they manage to keep the game halfway interesting.  If only Mythic could spend slightly less time copy-pasting, and really rethink how to develop in a user-centric manner, they could make some great stuff.  Hell, why not pick some people off the street in Northern Virginia, offer them some cash to play your game from a true MMORPG idiot's perspective, and make them your brain trust?  Mythic would do better with that approach than listening to the junk that's spouted on VN Boards and at their fan fests.
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Reply #36 on: October 20, 2005, 05:37:33 PM

--tons of new NPC's, all seeming to be revolving doors.  It seems Mythic is making a big effort to get players to the content and RvR quickly. (nice) Hopefully, I can find out where the fuck things are actually going on, however...
As it always happens with games starting to heavily use instanced content, now you'll hardly see people willingly to group randomly, in particular if you play on a old server.

Without Cats the PvE will be a nightmare for you, because basically noone is out there for the "standard" PvE. From 1 to 50 now everyone just runs Task Dungeons (TDs). These are small caverns with four total entrances: near Camelot (1-10), Campacorentin (10-20), Avalon Marshes (30-40), near Castle Sauvage (40-50). You basically run to a taskmaster NPC that gives you the task (kill a named, kill "x" foozles, kill everything) and then in the dungeon. Then rinse and repeat till you fall asleep. They recently nerfed the exp but when you finish the task you get a huge exp reward and money.

Running TDs give you good money but you won't get loot. Or you go into the housing zones and buy stuff by searching the market (there's an NPC named "market explorer" or something), or you farm "Aurulite" in Cats to buy good items from NPCs (Aurulite is a special currency dropping off monsters).

You can also read here where I somewhat explain how the design of Cats is put together.

Basically everyone runs TDs (solo or groups), gets powerlevelled or runs Cats instances to farm Aurulite (or the tasks quickies).

I also suggest you to start a new character on a classic server, do (download?) the tutorial and go through all the first newbie quest chain (should bring you up to lvl 6). It's refreshing and will help you to remember tons of details that you could have forgotten.

The DR-less mount can be bought at level 30 for 250 gold pieces. It's slower than the DR-enabled mounts and cannot be used in the RvR zones.

Quote
--last observation, again highly subjective:  I'm on Kay, whatever consolidated cluster that is.  I was pretty surprised that the few players on -- and for Cammie like IF in WoW, it's a central hub for Albion -- there were maybe 50-100 I saw over my time there last night but no one seemed to give a shit.  There's always reluctance to help newbies, but I figured in game so pounded down some people would've welcomed returning players.  I was spamming things like "anyone able to answer a few questions?  I'm lvl44 and just returned from a year+ away"  for nearly an hour.  No fucking exaggeration.  I couldn't tell how to see the bonus features on my gear (not just the stats you see from right clicking).  Other basic UI and expansion troubles etc.  I got one tell after the 40min mark from someone who likewise had been gone a while.  But of limited help.  So, not sure what the attitude of the player base is, but if I renew I'd like to learn where people are playing etc.  Guildless too.

Get a guild. New toons start in noob guilds, so this was a really good idea from Mythic. It's odd to see a returning player at level 40 asking for help.

Some of us spend a lot of time helping other players but this usually happens within a guild. I spend TONS of time talking with new players, trying to recruit them in the guild and helping when I can. So it really depends on what you find.

Quote
so, not giving up, but so far not really enjoying myself.

The biggest problem beside the clunkyness is that new players enter from PvE to reach, maybe, the RvR later on. And the PvE is now completely Cats dependent. And also dull as others have commented.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 05:53:31 PM by HRose »

-HRose / Abalieno
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Reply #37 on: October 20, 2005, 05:45:23 PM

Oh, I think Mythic has been fairly responsive over the years.  It's just that their responses tend to be driven by a sort of "what's easiest for the developer" mentality. Just take Catacombs... They obviously wanted to make the game much easier to join with new introductory quests and an incredibly fast levelling path (relative to years past).
Yes, what makes me upset is that those flaws were already extensively examined. It upsets me that these new comments were treated as a precious source that popped up right now and wasn't available before.

I can link endless threads and articles, both from me and other players, that examine extensively all those points plus more. It's kind of frustrating when not only you see all that work being ignored but also someone else being somewhat praised when he repeats precisely the same points.

*shrugs*

-HRose / Abalieno
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Pococurante
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Reply #38 on: October 20, 2005, 06:16:21 PM

There's nothing wrong with sampling from an outside source is there?

Tsk.
Numtini
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Reply #39 on: October 20, 2005, 06:39:57 PM

Quote
there were maybe 50-100 I saw over my time there last night but no one seemed to give a shit

Maybe it was one guy and 99 bots?

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Lum
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Reply #40 on: October 20, 2005, 07:08:01 PM

I tried to answer someone's questions and thanked them for their feedback. Would you rather I snarled at them?

HRose, you don't want your feedback read (quite a few designers and producers read this board and others), you want your feedbaclk implemented. Minor but key difference. You've written about 50 metric tons of feedback since DR came out (and yes, I read it all.) I'd explain which parts I nodded and went, "Yup", which parts I shrugged and went "Sorry, the designers disagree", and which parts I exclaimed "Dear lord, he's overdosed on crack". But that's probably unfair to, well, everyone else.
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Reply #41 on: October 20, 2005, 07:15:17 PM

But that's probably unfair to, well, everyone else.

It's a slow night, I could use some more entertainment.
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Reply #42 on: October 20, 2005, 07:28:31 PM

I tried to answer someone's questions and thanked them for their feedback. Would you rather I snarled at them?

HRose, you don't want your feedback read (quite a few designers and producers read this board and others), you want your feedbaclk implemented. Minor but key difference.
I don't want to fight on something so silly.

It's completely false that I want my feedback implemented. I would like it considered. And, if it makes sense, possibly implemented.

Fact is that noone ever thanked me for my feedback (..this is going childish) and I doubt it does something more than just bouncing back like if made of gum.

It's unrelated but your wife writes: "he got where he is on his MERIT - in SPITE of having LtM, not because of it"

Sometimes I feel that those ideas I suggested and bugs report I've sent are implemented *in spite* of what I wrote, and not because I contributed.

I think I felt legitimately upset when someone wrote comments that I also tried to "push" for a long time and was thanked as a precious resource when what I did seemed completely vaporous and easily dismissed like an annoying fly.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Lum
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Reply #43 on: October 20, 2005, 07:56:35 PM

So the problem is you haven't been thanked for what you wrote? Uh, ok. I'd say "thanks" here but it'd come off as snide, and really, it's not. You are absolutely passionate about DAOC (among other games). If you didn't care, you wouldn't be as passionate.  I have to remind myself of that on days when you and others flame the work of myself and others.

A lot of what you write about DAOC I disagree with. A lot of what you write is absolutely unrealistic. And some of it is correct (when you dinged a bug in DR with lightmaps - "torch not working reliably" for example).

Because I disagree with it doesn't mean it isn't valid feedback.

(Shockeye, was that entertaining enough? :D)
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Reply #44 on: October 20, 2005, 08:05:56 PM

(Shockeye, was that entertaining enough? :D)

You're too nice these days. Back to work I go. <sigh>
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Reply #45 on: October 20, 2005, 08:10:19 PM

Because I disagree with it doesn't mean it isn't valid feedback.
Heh, I wish there was more dialogue. Not with me, in general. I'd care more about what you and others disagree than what you agree.

But it's an old topic.

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You're too nice these days. Back to work I go. <sigh>

Really, it's nowhere fun ;p

-HRose / Abalieno
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Reply #46 on: October 21, 2005, 05:39:42 AM

Ah, the succession of player-wants that ultimately leads to "Vacate your offices and let me be the developer."

First players just want to be heard.  So the Devs put up a forum.  Then the players spout ideas onto the boards, and they demand that the developers acknowledge them.  Once the devs do that, the players invariably demand that the suggestions be implemented.  If devs demure at any point along this chain, they are accused of not comminicating / not caring / being out of touch / living in an "ivory tower."

...any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god.
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AlteredOne
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Reply #47 on: October 21, 2005, 06:08:14 AM


Now that we know we have Lum's ear...   tongue  Several ideas that might help Mythic get and keep truly *new* players.

1.  Make Catacombs content (not just the client) part of the free trial.  Probably this is already slated to happen, now that DR is out.
2.  Do some work to make Task Dungeons more interesting.  Add some more maps, improve the mob AI (my god those monsters are stupid), and add a few useful drops (just stuff newbies can use -- coin only gets old).  You may recall that AO had a similar instanced dungeon system, and they kept adding new maps and mob types for quite some time.  It worked reasonably well.
3.  Look at your bottom battlegrounds, all of those between level 1 and 19.  Remove siege weapons, or tone down their damage massively.  Make them *beautiful*.  Add more interesting terrain.  Basically, make these the most damn fun they can possibly be.
4.  Finally, change your intro level 1-5 quests so that they send people into a cool small dungeon, preferably something you create specifically for that quest.  Make that dungeon look like the most impressive artwork in DR.  Give them something to look forward to.
Soln
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Reply #48 on: October 21, 2005, 06:54:39 AM

a quick thank you to Lum and HRose and Altered -- I likewise appreciate the feedback -- and an update:

Basically, the PvE indeed is pretty much the same as I remember, but I got bored/lonely/frustrated pretty quickly trying to solo.  There was indeed no one around the zone I was in (DF).  After stumbling around a bit more I decided to go for Cats.  Thanks to HRose's update, I now know where and how to play:)  I wanted to head to a Frontier Keep (CS), but decided to bit the bullet as Lum advised.   I downloaded Cats (was nearly 3hrs, but went out, so not an issue) and 1) resubbed, 2) bought the Cats expansion, and 3) bought the DR expansion.  I don't mind giving Mythic a try and some $ to explore, all in the hope of getting to some good PvP.  It was my first serious MMO, and frankly, any players who are currently active are probably dedicated enough to the game to make any play-time interesting.  We shall see.
AlteredOne
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Reply #49 on: October 21, 2005, 07:09:02 AM

Soln, you just won Lum a player retention bonus  tongue

I would offer to play with you a bit, but I'm a Hib on Lancelot in your cluster.  I mostly play on Alb Gareth anymore anyway, so if you're feeling like a new start on a Classic server, there's an option for you.  That said, I haven't exactly been active recently with the new baby.
Nebu
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Reply #50 on: October 21, 2005, 08:52:48 AM

I've been playing DAoC off and on since beta and have a love-hate relationship with the game.  It's the best PvP game for my playstyle and I enjoy the game world and the people.  I hate the PvE.  I can't stress this enough.  At least the introduction of Classic servers and catacombs has reduced the PvE grind  to a level that's tolerable.  I may dare to even say that the cost to entry into the endgame is about the lowest of any of the major MMOG's available.  The PvE is still mindless and unimaginative, but a necessary evil to get to "teh fun".  Is it me or did that just read like an introduction at some kind of 12-step program?

For any considering coming back to the game, I recommend playing on one of the classic servers, particularly Gareth.

The good: 

1) There are enough players starting/rerolling that you can usually get a group.  Especially if you're a class that is desired.

2) ToA is a massive time sink that can be avoided, getting you into competitive rvr faster.

3) The large playerbase tends to be pretty friendly to new people. Starting in a newbie guild can answer a lot of questions, you just have to filter all the white noise.

4) With all the new comers and rerolls, the bg's are much more populated than on the ToA servers.  You should be able to find enemies in almost every bg making pvp accessible at all levels.

5) With epic gear and some purchased/quested jewelry you'll be able to compete in the endgame.  You won't be ideal, but you'll be far more competitive than you would on the ToA servers.

The downside:

1) Money is tighter so you'll have to fend for yourself.

2) You have to start over.  This is the worst part as PvE is mind-numblingly dull in DAoC.   

3) If you aren't a class that people are looking for, it may be a lonely journey.

Feel free to post or PM me with any questions. 


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #51 on: October 21, 2005, 04:43:42 PM

If devs demure at any point along this chain, they are accused of not comminicating / not caring / being out of touch / living in an "ivory tower."
No. I don't fucking accept this stupid oversimplification.

Players expect a dialogue. Because it's exactly because Lum disagrees with me the reason why we write: so we can have a discussion and FORM opinions. Without a discussion and without different ideas the opinions cannot be formed.

It's not about "do this because I said it and I'm right". It's about having a forum where a problem is examined from various points of view. And what matters is the point of view that ISN'T YOUR OWN.

This is why I care more about what Lum disagrees with me. Because that's what I'd find interesting to discuss.

AlteredOne here wrote suggestions that I disagree almost on every point. This is why I would find interesting a discussion. But it would be many times better if this discussion wasn't just some academic work going nowhere but also including those that actually work on the game and whose opinions matter.

What is fun is that EVERYONE is interested to discuss this. This is why as Lum says "we are reading stuff here" everyone (me included) starts to post lists of points that should be considered.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Reply #52 on: October 21, 2005, 04:58:40 PM

Players expect a dialogue.

The majority of players do not expect any kind of dialogue. The majority of players play the game and don't get caught up in trying to get their views on certain issues heard. I'm still not sure if having CM's and "dialogue" helps or hurts games in the long run.
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Reply #53 on: October 21, 2005, 05:21:30 PM

Official game forums are too filled with morons whose opinions are based 100% on a self-serving desire to see their class/race/faction/item/spell's power be preserved.  Regardless of anything resembling game balance and who believe that by starting large whine threads, petitions and other iterweb garbage and demanding response from the devs they can accomplish the lofty goal of keeping the game fucked up.  The idea that official game forums are a place of "dialogue" is fairly laughable to anyone who as ever spent time of the worldofwarcraft.com boards or any other MMO.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Reply #54 on: October 21, 2005, 05:22:52 PM

Well, I do know this: Lum himself wouldn't even exist if there was no such thing as "dialogue".

We wouldn't want that now, would we?
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Reply #55 on: October 21, 2005, 05:24:44 PM

Well, I do know this: Lum himself wouldn't even exist if there was no such thing as "dialogue".

We wouldn't want that now, would we?

Ironically, Imperator would exist if there was no such thing as "dialogue."

Open door, etc.
Nebu
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Reply #56 on: October 21, 2005, 09:05:30 PM

Official game forums are too filled with morons whose opinions are based 100% on a self-serving desire to see their class/race/faction/item/spell's power be preserved.  Regardless of anything resembling game balance and who believe that by starting large whine threads, petitions and other iterweb garbage and demanding response from the devs they can accomplish the lofty goal of keeping the game fucked up.  The idea that official game forums are a place of "dialogue" is fairly laughable to anyone who as ever spent time of the worldofwarcraft.com boards or any other MMO.

I agree. Most players are so caught up in the circle that surrounds themself that they fail to see the big picture.  I empathize with most CSR's and developers forced to filter the gobs of white noise for the tidbits of useful information coming from the player base at large.

I think that Mythic has done a better job than most with regard to handling feedback from the playerbase.  Could they do better, sure.  I still think that they've done a fine job.  Hell, they kept a cynic like me playing their game for 4 years.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Llava
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Reply #57 on: October 22, 2005, 04:09:11 AM

I got a question-

Did they ever fix the bug with Ripper?  Does it do more damage than Hamstring and Leaper now?  Does Ripper even exist anymore?

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #58 on: October 22, 2005, 09:14:35 AM

Did they ever fix the bug with Ripper?  Does it do more damage than Hamstring and Leaper now?  Does Ripper even exist anymore?

Ripper does exist I believe (if you're referring to the 50 CS line style).  The growth rate on Ripper is still higher than hamstring and leaper, but to the best of my knowledge its damage is still determined by base weapon spec rather than by CS spec.  So, yeah... in most cases it still does less damage.  I wouldn't use it even if I were to spec to 50 CS... besides, it's like the 4th in chain and you'll virtually never get that off in rvr.

I'll have to copy to Pendragon and test it for sure.  That's the answer I got from a guy I play with.

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Reply #59 on: October 23, 2005, 03:21:56 AM

I'm not sure how many years this is after the bug was reported, explored, and finally mapped out.  At least 2.  Still broken, eh?

I actually DID manage to get it off in RvR a couple times, before I dropped down to 44 CS and raised my weapon spec.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #60 on: October 23, 2005, 09:56:09 PM

besides, it's like the 4th in chain and you'll virtually never get that off in rvr.
Remove the "virtually", it's just impossible.

Since we were talking also about the guilds I think that DAoC improved a lot with a social panel but it still has a long way to go before it will be feature complete. In particular Ubiq has a good piece about the guild support that I also commented. This is another essential part of the newbie experience.

In particular there's a "looking for guild" tab but to use it you should be aware that there's a /lfg commands that puts you on it. It would be really simple to add a button on that panel to set your flag. And the same goes for all the infinite list of slash commands that you are forced to use in DAoC and that are systematically excluded from the UI (considering as UI both the graphical parts and the controls).

This is also why the /release command should become a button you can press as you die and why the effects you can fire off items should be clickable instead of going through that awful list of commands I explained in the other page. DAoC simply isn't consistent and continues to be clunky and not consistent even with the new things they are adding.

Another good idea could be about working with the TLs to put on the Herald a complete and maintained FAQ for ALL classes. As today I still have no clue about most of the mechanics. I don't remember some effects of the stats, I don't know how the specs points exactly affect my skills, I don't know which skills benefit from the points above 50 and which don't, I don't know how damage is calculated and so on.

Every class in the game behaves in its own specific way and it's filled by an high number of quirks and exception. The FAQ won't fix the ruleset but it would at least help the players to find the informations organized in a clear and direct way.

And the list of little things and more substantial features could go on forever. Because an in depth analysis of the newbie experience would produce a really long list of observations and not just an handful of features that the game needs.

The point is there's a nearly infinite list of things to consider and a whole lot of work. You can start from everywhere. But Mythic always lags behind. The do a little step and then completely change the focus instead of progressing on every front. They put out some changes in a couple of months and then completely forgot everything for months and years, till the point everything crumbles and they have to go back for another try. This just doesn't work. Since there's a lot to do, this process should be steady and progressive. It cannot be done in chunks and it needs a definite plan ahead with all the steps set. That is also open to integrate new feedback coming from the new features that are added.

Oh, and I've finally dinged 50. Got my champion weapon as well. I couldn't believe I got it basically for "free". Mythic never gave me anything if not after spitting blood on some endless grind or moneysink. So this was something new. Now there are the Champion levels and they are definitely NOT how they were described in the beta. In 3-4 days with various hours dedicated to the RvR I went just near to two bubbles. I need 10 of those to get CL1. And there are a total of five levels. This means I'm looking for MONTHS of daily RvR, and assuming I can play for a few hours each day and that I don't spend time on anything but my minstrel.

That's definitely not fast as bragged during beta. And just to get some minor skills. The reward is definitely NOT worth the grind, despite, in this case, the grind is the direct purpose of the game. So somewhat tolerable even if still just insane.

And again about the comments on the accessibility of the RvR and, so, the accessibility of the WORTH of the game for a new player: the moneysinks are absurds. I'm running around with crap equipment just because I cannot afford anything. I cannot afford to buy potions, to buy the horse and all the rest and also buy a complete spellcrafted set.

I'm at 50 and I would finally like to enjoy some RvR but the treadmill just started. I'd have to spend twice the time I already invested in the game to hunt down the items I need and gather the money I need to buy crafted armor and spellcraft it so I can have a decent performance on RvR. All these are *impassable walls* for anyone that isn't a pure catass. And the more time passes the less players are going to tolerate all these long grinds just to finally have access to the WORTH of the game.

This again doesn't work. A game should offer its worth in the best way possible, and not hide it or make it inaccessible. The itemization in DAoC definitely needs some work (I wanted to write about it, I have a bunch of notes but still didn't have the time to organize), not because it's not powerful enough, but because the gap to be able to access a viable build should be reduced by a good amount.

And finally I'd beg them to work on the damn client. Everyone I know complains about performance problems, memory leaks and so on. In particular I wish I could finally have the window of the game client finally fill the whole screen instead of 80% of it. In every other mmorpg I play I can "maximize" the window. Like it happens with every other application, you double click on the title bar and the windows goes to fill the screen. In DAoC this is impossible. Or you play in a window that goes off your screen and covers the taskbar, making impossible to do anything, or you play in a smaller window than your desktop, so that you have to see all the time something else below, without being able to take advantage of the rest of the space you have.

Little changes like this one or adjustments to the usability of the UI really improve the quality of the game for everyone and along the whole experience. Oddly, all the development time is spent on something else.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Reply #61 on: October 23, 2005, 10:13:12 PM

Oh, and also consider that if I don't have the money to afford the clothes I need to have a chance at the RvR, I have even less to be able to afford the actual RvR (siege engines, repairs and so on). And if I spend my time and money on the RvR, I also don't have any other source of income. So the RvR is just impossible on its own if not feeded/twinked through an alt farmer.

Basically you are set in the game without anything. No equipment, no money, no experience and so on. To be able to do anything you have to move on a bunch of different treadmills that skyrocket beyond every scale you can expect (and build new characters to feed and support your main ones). While some of the players can afford this, most of them are just going to splat their face against a brick.

-HRose / Abalieno
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Nebu
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Reply #62 on: October 24, 2005, 02:09:16 AM

And if I spend my time and money on the RvR, I also don't have any other source of income. So the RvR is just impossible on its own if not feeded/twinked through an alt farmer.

Actually, you're wrong here.  Kills in RvR now drop cash.  I've had many weekends where I've made 1-2p by doing nothing but RvR.

It's not easy getting started.  Once I have my rvr suit ready, I've found that I have more money than I ever need.  Even with the cost of pots, repairs, rent, etc. I still have plenty of cash left for frivilous expenses. My only real need once I have my template for RvR finished is for repairs/replacements and the occasional realm/skill respec.  I've gone for months doing nothing but RvR and money has never been a concern.  Mythic got this right when they awarded gold for rvr kills. 

I will agree that the REAL treadmill starts at level 50 IF you play on a ToA server.  I left to play on the classic servers and I can now be RvR ready and compatitive in about 2 weeks starting with a level 1 toon.  The classic servers are the best place for a new player to start unless they REALLY enjoy PvE.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 02:13:34 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Llava
Contributor
Posts: 4602

Rrava roves you rong time


Reply #63 on: October 24, 2005, 03:15:33 AM

besides, it's like the 4th in chain and you'll virtually never get that off in rvr.
Remove the "virtually", it's just impossible.

I disagree.  "Virtually" impossible is just about right.  As I mentioned, I did actually get it off a few times when I had it.  Unfortunately, I was not rewarded for that incredible feat.

I'll be honest, I would've thought they had the bug fixed by now.  My jaw hasn't hit the floor from the shock, exactly, but I still would've thought that it would receive SOME attention after the cancellation of the much vaunted style review.  I mean, they did say they were just cancelling it because they were going to handle it in smaller doses, didn't they?  And yet...

In fact, next time my friend brings up DAoC and tries to get me reinterested, I think I'll just sum up my objection with the sentence, "Ripper is still broken."  That expresses more than I could in a two page rant.

I'm trying to not flame or be overly critical about it, and I'm not sure I'm expressing that well- probably because it's late and I'm tired.  The point I'm trying to make is this:  A new level of polish has become standard in the MMOG genre, and DAoC not only doesn't meet that standard, it isn't even polished for what it is.  It's one of those "If you can't get excited about your work, why would you expect anyone else to?" kinda deals.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
HRose
I'm Special
Posts: 1205

VIKLAS!


WWW
Reply #64 on: October 24, 2005, 04:48:56 AM

I've had many weekends where I've made 1-2p by doing nothing but RvR.

Well, I must not be aware of the jedi mindtricks because I also spent a decent amount of time in RvR recently and my money went down instead than up.

Quote
It's not easy getting started.  Once I have my rvr suit ready, I've found that I have more money than I ever need. Even with the cost of pots, repairs, rent, etc. I still have plenty of cash left for frivilous expenses. My only real need once I have my template for RvR finished is for repairs/replacements and the occasional realm/skill respec.  I've gone for months doing nothing but RvR and money has never been a concern.  Mythic got this right when they awarded gold for rvr kills.

My RvR suit it's a myth for me, right now. Maybe I'm that awful, or maybe you are more of a catass than what you think :)

-HRose / Abalieno
cesspit.net
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #65 on: October 24, 2005, 08:10:10 AM

This is also why the /release command should become a button you can press as you die and why the effects you can fire off items should be clickable instead of going through that awful list of commands I explained in the other page. DAoC simply isn't consistent and continues to be clunky and not consistent even with the new things they are adding.

There actually is a button to /release. The fact that you didn't know about it is a good demonstration that our UI needs some serious reworking, you'll never get me to disagree on that point.

Quote
Now there are the Champion levels and they are definitely NOT how they were described in the beta. In 3-4 days with various hours dedicated to the RvR I went just near to two bubbles. I need 10 of those to get CL1. And there are a total of five levels. This means I'm looking for MONTHS of daily RvR, and assuming I can play for a few hours each day and that I don't spend time on anything but my minstrel.

Doing the Champion quests should get you enough CL experience to reach CL3, assuming you do nothing else. As for the rest, I'd argue that unlike TOA, you absolutely do not need CL5 to be RvR-ready. It's like the titles at RR11+, something nice as a reward once you get there, not something to "grind" to.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 08:37:27 AM by Lum »
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #66 on: October 24, 2005, 08:14:26 AM

Did they ever fix the bug with Ripper?

I'm asking about that now. Considering that fixing these sort of bugs is actually my job now, uh, you can get schild to sucker-punch me this week in retaliation I guess?
waylander
Terracotta Army
Posts: 526


Reply #67 on: October 24, 2005, 08:33:58 AM

I liked DAOC, and all the end game stuff looks good.  However I have no desire to engage in the PVE character advancement model that the game offers, just to get to the part where I want to get too.  Maybe if I was a total daoc newbie I wouldn't care, but no winback will ever get me or my friends if we have to go through all that crap again.

Lords of the Dead
Gaming Press - Retired
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613


Reply #68 on: October 24, 2005, 09:33:10 AM

Well, I must not be aware of the jedi mindtricks because I also spent a decent amount of time in RvR recently and my money went down instead than up.


If you have a decent group, there's really no trick to it.  50-60k rp's is a pretty common saturday for me with about 3-4h in rvr.  No tricks, just good solid fun.  Lay off the seige.  You spend a lot of money and the rp's are awful... unless you enjoy beating on doors. 

My RvR suit it's a myth for me, right now. Maybe I'm that awful, or maybe you are more of a catass than what you think :)

For RvR on the classic servers, you can get by with quest items (SI neck and bracer quests), armor from the epic quest (done by level 45 and decent exp), drops from the champion levels (which take a day or two), aurulite gear (rings are ok), and maybe a piece or two that you purchase.  I made a template for one toon entirely out of this stuff and from money I made leveling from 1-50.  I have known to be a catass at times, but on the classic servers it's not necessary. 

Get off the ToA servers.  Now that I'm playing there I can't even imagine having to go through the grind of 1-50, artifacts, scrolls, leveling artifacts, ML's, Champion levels, and then needing RR5 to compete. 
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 09:37:22 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Lum
Developers
Posts: 1608

Hellfire Games


Reply #69 on: October 24, 2005, 10:41:52 AM

Gratuitious propaganda link:

http://camelot-europe.goa.com/downloads/videos/daoc_goa_b_wmv_en.zip

Created by our European partners. Probably the best DAOC movie I've ever seen (and I've seen a bunch).
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