DAOC - Darkness Rising Expansion

[Xanthippe]

I received the following email, and thought I'd pass along the information.

In celebration of the launch of Darkness Rising™, the new expansion for Dark Age of Camelot, we'd like to invite you back for 10 days of FREE play to rediscover Camelot.

What's new in the Realms?
Player-controlled mounts - Acquire a standard horse at level 35!
"Classic" Servers - No ToA Required! New Epic Armor Quests!
The Isle of Agramon - A new Realm vs Realm™ Battlefield!


      Now available for purchase!
A new evil threatens the land and the mightiest of heroes are called into service. Vanquish the new foe and earn the right to be called a Champion of the Realms.    
      
New Expansion Features Include:
An epic quest to save the Realms
Advanced, customizable mounts
Champion Weapons
Champion Levels
Sub-classing abilities


   
      
Darkness Rising is available via digital distribution only. In-game activation required. Visit the official Darkness Rising website for more information.    


Heed the call of your king and return to your Realm! A new evil is rising and your skills are in need. Your character awaits and we've made it easy for you to get back into the battle. Just log into the game before October 24th using your original user name and password, reactivate your account and visit the Account Info > Expansion Status screen to see what new content you're missing.


Learn more by visiting
http://www.darkageofcamelot.com


   
* 10 Free Days offer is only available to players whose accounts were cancelled in good standing prior to September 14th, 2005. Mythic Entertainment reserves the right to deny or cancel access to the trial to any players at its sole discretion.
**Cancelled accounts must be reactivated between October 14 - October 24, 2005 to be eligible for the free 10 days. Free play period begins at initial login. Credit Card is required to verify account.    


© 2005 Mythic Entertainment, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Legal Information
Unsubscribe

Mythic Entertainment
4035 Ridge Top Road, Suite 800
Fairfax, VA 22030

[HRose]

Ha, I'm playing. My website has miscellanea blathering and screenshots. Nothing too mindblowing but a little exp pack finally available as download for a game that could still have a lot to say if Mythic was a little more daring.

But you know already my point of view.

I think this next week they'll release an "epic" box in the shops that will finally include ALL DAoC complete with every expansion and including this last one.

In May I was preaching:

That's how you get new players. In the shops you offer directly the *complete* product, so that your new players will experience the game at its best and complete of all the features, while your current subscribers just pay directly and download the add-on.

Why this doesn't make sense? In the shops you want to attract the attention of potential new players. You DO NOT want to draw the attention to a long list of pre-requirements that would require that possible new customer to buy other boxes in order to have the whole product. Instead the current subscribers don't need to walk till a shop to get what they need. They know ALREADY that the expansion is out and they do not need it to be publicized and on display.

This was the most intelligent move from Mythic.

[Shockeye]

I think this next week they'll release an "epic" box in the shops that will finally include ALL DAoC complete with every expansion and including this last one.

EB Games has it for $39.99.

It was also in the Fry's ad on Friday for $29.99 or something silly.

Fry's also has WoW for $29.99 this week.

[HRose]

Btw, the actual features of the new exp pack are:

- Reskinned capital cities (+ throne room)
- Reskinned Darkness Falls (+monsters and loot tables, despite the latter still suck)
- Champion quests and levels
- Champion weapons
- Subclassing skills (through champion levels)
- Customizable mounts
- Massive new dungeon for each tied to existing DF (instanced / 1 group)

The new quests are a bit more interesting and fun to do that what they offered till now. But when it comes to PvE combat you'll still have NPCs randomly placed, aggroing with broken, absurds paths and behaving exactly like they did more than four years ago. So, again, decent quests but very dull gameplay. These new quests seem to not take a lot of time, so not an incredible amount of content and seem to take place both on the classic world and specific small instances with some new art assets.

Plus there are a few "champion tasks" that give tons of exp and only take a few minutes to complete (fetch quests or kill quests all over the world).

I have a summary of the "design" of the game here.

The expansion is very unpolished as it always happen with Mythic. Not long ago I was writing:

Btw, I'm seriously *worried* about the horses. With that shitty implementation of the boats I'm really worried about horrible controls and animations. Or even worst, just speed x 5 and the model of a horse under the ass of the character. Right now all the videos show horses going in a straight line.

What about turning and code the controls so they behave realistically instead of having jerky animations and the horse spinning and warping all over the place? It's ok for the videos, but if they don't code new controls for this feature it will just look horrible and play awfully.

Well, my worries are confirmed. The animations are ok but with the same horrible clipping problems as always. Horses have saddles and bridles but no way that they are centered on the character feet and hands.

Just by staring at people I noticed:
- Bad clipping while riding
- No dedicated controls
- No turning animations, just spinning in the place
- No following the slopes of the terrain, the model remains perfectly just horizontal and looking stupid, half buried on the ground and half on the hair
- No falling effects/animations
- Leaving "ghosts" everywhere
- They can go in water but they have the exact same animation, just slowed down and with the model tilted up

I find sort of fun that the excuse that Mythic gave on the reason why they added horses only now was that: "We still aren't satisfied with the technology to implement them as we'd like".

As for the other features there's always Mythic's brand applied: very unpolished, lots of glitches and total lack of attention to the detail.

But at least they showed that they have the talent to deliver an awesome graphic and the possibility to do a lot more than this if they just used better their resources.

[Shockeye]

But at least they showed that they have the talent to deliver an awesome graphic and the possibility to do a lot more than this if they just used better their resources.

I have to admit, some of those screenshots you have are pretty nice. A part of me would like to play DAoC again, but a larger part of me hits myself in the nose with a newspaper whenever I think about it.

[Lt.Dan]

I resubbed for the opening of the classic servers, I really can't see the point with DAoC anymore.  The whole playerbase is obsessed with getting the cheese the quickest way.  Sadly, this sucks any remaining fun from the game and you're left with a MMO version of progress quest. 

[stray]

I resubbed for the opening of the classic servers, I really can't see the point with DAoC anymore.  The whole playerbase is obsessed with getting the cheese the quickest way.  Sadly, this sucks any remaining fun from the game and you're left with a MMO version of progress quest. 

Isn't that the case with....Just about every mmo though (at least of this variety)?

Anyways...I'll admit too, those new models look great.

[Krakrok]

Nice graphics. Unfortunately, if Mythic wants some more of my money they'll have to make a single player Arthurian game. I dunno maybe I'm still bitter that I never got to play Vengeance of Excalibur because it never worked with my CGA monitor.

[Nija]

heh, looks like quake2 with some high res textures.

[chinslim]

Personally, I think DAoC has become hopelessly complex and unwieldy over the course of "balance fixes" and expansions/addons.  All the slash commands, realm abilities and new spells...or maybe it's just that I'm getting too old.

[HRose]

Personally, I think DAoC has become hopelessly complex and unwieldy over the course of "balance fixes" and expansions/addons.  All the slash commands, realm abilities and new spells...or maybe it's just that I'm getting too old.

That's only the tip of the iceberg. You should see how the effects on these new "champion weapons" work.

Basically you have to open your equipment window, right click on the weapon icon, type /use or /use2, then press return while you have the enemy targeted.

And it's not enough because *you cannot do this while in combat*, so you have to switch out of it, follow the procedure and then reenter the combat stance.

Just think how pretty WoW could be if to use an effect you had to exit the combat stance, open a bag, right click on the icon, type /use with the mob targeted and then reenter the combat stance.

Whoever coded this in DAoC deserves a medal. Maybe they hired Serek Dmart.

[Tale]

Nice screenshots. But why are you congratulating yourself?

The artwork is *impressive* and I congatulate myself again with this (or these) unnamed talent that Mythic hired (I really don't believe this is the result of the same artists there worked on the game at release).

Maybe you didn't mean it that way. a game not look good a game fun

[schild]

I was wondering what they'd do with all the assets they made for Imperator.

[stray]

Nice screenshots. But why are you congratulating yourself?

Don't ask questions. He does that a lot (err...and the other two things).

[HRose]

Nice screenshots. But why are you congratulating yourself?

Yeah, bad english, I guess. That's the italian grammar for the verb translated to english.

a game not look good a game fun

In fact I went with the third batch of screenshots showing the Quake 2 dungeon (you asked for it) and a long rant about what you actually (do not) do into it. Beside Levar Burton and taking screenies.

[AlteredOne]

It's quite obvious that Darkness Rising will not gain any new fans for DAOC.  Almost all of the new content is for level 50 characters, and it seems very optional even for them.  Wheee, now my hero can cast wimpy short-range bolts for 1/4 the damage of a real caster!!  I guess the main selling point is the horses, which certainly look nice and offer decent speed options for soloers.  On the Atlantis servers (where many players have returned after toying with the Classic servers), the new "Champion Weapons" will be largely ignored, in favor of the more powerful Artifact weapons.

Catacombs was a much better expansion, even if many of the dungeons are hopelessly buggy.  New player races and classes were introduced, along with a whole new rapid levelling path from 1-50.   Some of the dungeon zones were fairly attractive and interesting.

As it stands, my level 39 battleground toons on the "Classic" servers will see precisely squat from Darkness Rising, other than maybe the new graphics for buildings in capital cities.  I really don't care about hitting 50, since occasional battleground fights are my main fun in DAOC.  Honestly I don't see much reason to buy this expansion.

[Soln]

/emote Soln thinks...

"If Mythic could *promise* me a quick PvE levelling from 1->50 AND that there would always be people on I might resub.  I just don't know how I'd do it though, suffering those fucking runs from AvMarsh to CornStation etc. etc. etc.  Also, doing it without n+1 accounts with a buffbot seems impossible.  But I'm too old and jaded to play 2 accounts anymore..." 

[HRose]

"If Mythic could *promise* me a quick PvE levelling from 1->50 AND that there would always be people on I might resub.  I just don't know how I'd do it though, suffering those fucking runs from AvMarsh to CornStation etc. etc. etc.  Also, doing it without n+1 accounts with a buffbot seems impossible.  But I'm too old and jaded to play 2 accounts anymore..." 

Old problems and not anymore so. DAoC has still many deep issues but not those.

The levelling is now faster compared to every other game. But it's more grindy than ever since the most efficient way is about running the same small instance that autobalances with you and where you have to kill "x" mobs just waiting there before going out, resetting and going back in for another round.

So while the treadmill is sensibly shorter, it's still the worst grind you'll ever experience. In a few cases even worst than how DAoC was at the beginning. One of the comments I heard is that "Catacombs" was like a "PvE lobotomy" and it's indeed what happened (besides, they nerfed the exp in the September patch).

And the travelling is also not anymore a problem. We have horses, we have porters pretty much everywhere and we have "Catacombs" linking every dungeon of the game. So you can basically travel underground and use each dungeon a a quick exit point all over the world.

Buffbots are also not an issue, like ToA. Since we have the classic servers.

[HaemishM]

stuff

So basically, DAoC has become one large game of workarounds?

[AlteredOne]

I thought the "Classic" servers and the new RvR gank island would be sufficient to keep a certain part of the player base happy for some time to come.  Yes, the PvE grind is still painful even if massively shorter than the original game.  But I figured that the RvR lovers would flock to these Classic servers and stay there.

Instead we have seen the usual dropoff.  After running at server cap of 3500 simultaneous users for a month or so, the two main Classic servers have seen steady declines, and the third one (Ector) is a ghost town.  Instead of 8K+ players at primetime for 3 servers, we are down to maybe 3-4K.  Gareth and Lamorak are still reasonably populated, but the excitement is gone and we're back to the usual powergamers doing their thing.

Darkness Rising is simply incapable of attracting new gamers, given the exclusive focus on high-end content.  I doubt many ex-players will be drawn back for it.  And I doubt Mythic will ever again see a massive return like they did for the Classic Servers combined with a 14-day free trial. 

Overall the only real question is whether DAOC can not only continue to break even financially, but whether it can also give Mythic room to develop Warhammer.  It's impossible to pretend it's anything more than a game far past its prime.

[Pococurante]

I thought the graphics looked dated.  Too many of the models glow with that classic "Hi I'm 1990s CGI!" feel.  Even the architecture looked lame considering there is no dimensional texturing in the walking surfaces.

[HRose]

So basically, DAoC has become one large game of workarounds?

Yes. As always. Some better than others. The idea to link the dungeons is a really good one because it joins the world without breaking or disrupting something else. Then there are all the other problems that are less apparent to a former player but that would be glaring in the case of a comeback.

As I wrote long ago WoW has a "spoiled" effect. After you get used to some of its features they become invisible. But if you go back to an older game you suddently remember what you hated and now aren't anymore ready to tolerate.

[Soln]

well fuck.  That's disappointing.  My $ for Blizz I guess.  I would resub if I could stop feeling I was on a treadmill.  At least with WoW it's still all new to me, and I can level to 2 characters in either faction through the quests on either continent.  So that's 4 toons possible never playing in the same area, never playing the same quests again.  Yes, I could do that with the 3 realms, but the problem for Mythic is that like a lot of other players I've already done that.

I would like to resub, but I would like not to have to play the same game again, if that makes any sense.

[Soln]

Ok WTF is up with this?  http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/downloads/   

From the opening video that presents the three Realms (Albion, Hibernia and Midgard) in breathtaking detail, to your immediate immersion into the tutorial, until your participation in combat on the battlegrounds - this trial has it all. You'll quickly level up to experience Realm vs. Realm combat (RvR), Mythic's unique take on Player vs. Player (PvP) combat. Are you prepared for the challenge? Our battlegrounds are open!

can I buy a digital download of something that presents a tutorial and puts me into a BG?  And which BG?  And is it consolidated to ensure other ppl are there?  Anyone current peeps know?

[AlteredOne]

Ok WTF is up with this?  http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/downloads/   

can I buy a digital download of something that presents a tutorial and puts me into a BG?  And which BG?  And is it consolidated to ensure other ppl are there?  Anyone current peeps know?

There are now battlegrounds for every level range until 44...  1-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24... And so on.  I think their "tutorial" is a simple set of quests designed to get you to level 5 in about an hour.  On the busiest "Classic" servers, there has been a fair amount of action in the level 5-9 battleground.  However, it tends to be spoiled by the fact that siege weapons hit for big-boy damage, so that whoever controls the central fort tends to set up lots of siege weapons and one-shot anybody who gets close.

In short, Mythic can't even balance their newbie battlegrounds, ROFLMAO.

[Llava]

A new evil is rising and your skills are in need.

Oh no! I'd better resub so I can... rescue my poor skills?

[Soln]

ok found this below.  Good management.  Going to check out.  Always liked a lot of the member facing stats and support stuff from Mythic.  We shall see what fubarness awaits.

http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/patches/
Original Camelot or No Installation Disks?

If you played the original Dark Age of Camelot - with no expansion packs - or no longer have your original Dark Age of Camelot disks, you will need to download the latest version of the game at here. Once you download and install the game, just use your original login name and password, and you're in the game.

Never Played?

If you've never played Dark Age of Camelot, you can download the free trial here and discover what you've been missing.

[Johny Cee]

I thought the "Classic" servers and the new RvR gank island would be sufficient to keep a certain part of the player base happy for some time to come.  Yes, the PvE grind is still painful even if massively shorter than the original game.  But I figured that the RvR lovers would flock to these Classic servers and stay there.

Instead we have seen the usual dropoff.  After running at server cap of 3500 simultaneous users for a month or so, the two main Classic servers have seen steady declines, and the third one (Ector) is a ghost town.  Instead of 8K+ players at primetime for 3 servers, we are down to maybe 3-4K.  Gareth and Lamorak are still reasonably populated, but the excitement is gone and we're back to the usual powergamers doing their thing.

Darkness Rising is simply incapable of attracting new gamers, given the exclusive focus on high-end content.  I doubt many ex-players will be drawn back for it.  And I doubt Mythic will ever again see a massive return like they did for the Classic Servers combined with a 14-day free trial. 

Overall the only real question is whether DAOC can not only continue to break even financially, but whether it can also give Mythic room to develop Warhammer.  It's impossible to pretend it's anything more than a game far past its prime.

Darkness Rising has brought back quite a few of the old hands on my server.  Pure anectodal, I know.  I think it's as much a bone thrown out to encourage people with stagnant accounts to reup for a few months. 

Workarounds now the system: 

It's human nature.  The first time you do something,  fun.  The second time, you bitch.  After that,  you look for shortcuts any way you can.  There are plenty of people who skip right to step 3 after barely partaking in step 1, as well.  The internet, with strategy fan pages and dedicated forums,  has only exacerbated the min/maxing of how we play.

Classic Servers:

Everyone who followed the game knew that the Classic servers population was going to collapse.  People switched servers or reupped for a new experience.  When the new got old,  they left.  When flaws were exploited until gameplay broke, they left.  Saw the same thing with PvP servers,  which were overflowing at 2 servers before they started the decline that continues to this day.

Of course, this is the point to the continued roll out of new server types.  Each new type will provide a new experience and a fresh start,  coaxing a few more dollars of subscription price from people until they tire of the new system and it's gamed to hell.

I've been party to hundreds of conversations about "How Mythic messed up the game!!!1!"  The truth is,  like any human system or game, it has flaws;  and we can't help exploiting those flaws until we destroy our own enjoyment.  After each one of Mythic's major changes or rvr revamps,  players figured out how to game the system.  And then gamed the system until they made it not fun to play.

Whether it was buffbots,  or sced armor, or Determination, or Left Axe, or MLs, or overpowered snipers.

All other games have examples of the same flaws,  that get gamed until fun is the casuality.  Which is why random factors tend to be included,  to offset the advantage of experience or knowledge of optimal strategies.

[HRose]

The truth is, like any human system or game, it has flaws;

Yes, and as with all the flaws the point is to move ahead and use them as a strength. Because are those flaws to point you the right direction where to go.

If I leave a mmorpg it's not because I know its flaws too well, but because noone cared to learn from them and move from that point. It's about deluded expectations and disappointment. That's also because many players rant about it before finally leaving. Because they care and wouldn't like to leave.

Old players don't leave DAoC as the "new" fades out. They leave as they remember the reasons why the left before. The "new" fades because it's often just a superficial illusion that finally reveals itself as a delusion.

[Soln]

A few notes from my first impressions returning to the game last night (maybe will pen a review if I spend more time actually engaging the new content and rulesets, since there is no DAoC area in f13 to chew about).  Suggestion to the mods:  maybe create an MMO holding pen for threads?  This general forum is fine but holds console and more general game issues.  An MMO mini-den might be good for discussions about minutiae.

--found and installed the old DAoC and SI disks.  Realized too late needed only to run SI.  May have screwed up a later patch (see below).

--was directed on login to http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/patches/ automatically (nice).  Took 2hrs and change to download upgrades over Cable.

--installed, rebooted, remembered old account info since I recycle some names.  I logged in, got a welcome back with a commitment I could use my old toons and all their gear, then got a referral popup, and then was given the login with all my characters.  I have to say, being away for maybe 4 years to log in find all my toons (and I later checked that their gear in the vault was still there) is very impressive to me (nice).  SOE only commits to 90 days from end of cancellation period to maintain a character and their gear.  Maybe this is because Mythic is small, but regardless, color me impressed.

--logged into my lvl44 Wizard into what I eventually realized was the expansion area near a raid zone (barbarian encampment on Isle of Avalon near Caer Sidi).

--was disappointed that the UI was so poor (sad).  Was disappointed nothing had changed, that there was no hearthstone-like equivalent to warp to bind point (sad), was disappointed that the graphics looked appalling on my high end PC (that survived running two instances of SWG).  So I'm hoping this was my fault with the Catacombs install and that the options will be revealed to improve all the blocky circa-1999 graphics.  The character models seem all the same.  I understand with ToA there are XML UI mods to use, so I hope those are available without ToA.  After all, they make WoW bareable.

--So finding my locale, seeing they added an ingame map (nice) I ran a good way across the expansion island to where I remember a horse vendor was to monorail back to the only exit zone on the island (some sadness in there).  I died in sight of the village from 3 greens (sad). 

--the movement controls and mouse controls are disappointing (sad).  There is no support for the mouse-wheel?  Only very basic zoom, no FP perspective?  (sad).

--the combat is still frustrating, so far.  The interruptions on spells is too much (I was fighting 3 greens for Christ sake).  With WoW at least you are shown a timer bar for cast time.  You're not given any sense in DAoC of where your cast is.  I literally would try casting and then wait only to see my toon was standing still -- he would get interrupted and stop casting! (SAD!)  Fuck....  And, the button UI was not new enough to show a texture timer -- they were just greyed out and I had to keep punching to recast.  Also, the directions of combat in DAoC are good enough that you need to face directly all attackers, so my attackers shifting on me would get out of focus (as it were).  Trouble with the controls added to my pwn'ness.

--died, waited....waited.... waited.....  remembered/figured out I had to type "/release".  Dumb.  (sad)

--rezzed 20feet away in the village... rez sickness.  Was stupified by a CROWD of trainers.  Holy shit there are a lot of classes.  This tiny log fort had maybe 15 trainers.  Mind boggling.  Makes me remember all the laughs we would get in SWG wondering how newbies start -- when you have 15+ classes there's really a lot of swirl you shouldn't have trying to start a game.  Extra cognitive load != fun.  Still, that's the game so neither sad or nice.

-- Got a horse, monorailed back to the harbour zone.  Remembered you have pay for rez sick healing.  Lost 10% of my fucking gold (sad).  Again, Christ Mythic -- stop being so fucking punitive and puritanical with players.  Can't other players cure other players? Why mandatory?  Why so expensive?  At least in WoW it's just item decay and you can select which items you want to repair.  In DAoC you have to pay 10% it seems to cure your Con back to normal. 

--got a port from an NPC to Camelot.  Was stupefied by number of players all with EQ2-like shard titles, like "Bumbum of Pellinor".  We'll see what happens tonight.

All in all, I am still very impressed they have my characters and their gear from so several years of not playing.  However, the first impressions are blocky, balky, dated, and a little annoying.  I will keep at it, however, since I want to check out the content and some PvP

[AlteredOne]

Some responses on details for you...  Overall you are correct that the graphics look dated, however I believe the free trial lets you use the Catacombs client, see http://catacombs.darkageofcamelot.com/downloads.php.  You no longer need your original disks -- everything can be downloaded online including the latest expansion.

-- I understand with ToA there are XML UI mods to use, so I hope those are available without ToA.  After all, they make WoW bareable.

You don't need ToA for the XML UI Mods.  The Catacombs client will use them, available with free trial.  A great Catacombs UI is the "Whattie" UI found at www.daocmods.com.

--the movement controls and mouse controls are disappointing (sad).  There is no support for the mouse-wheel?  Only very basic zoom, no FP perspective?  (sad). 

Catacombs added much better support for the mouse wheel and mouse look.

--the combat is still frustrating, so far.  The interruptions on spells is too much (I was fighting 3 greens for Christ sake). 
--died, waited....waited.... waited.....  remembered/figured out I had to type "/release".  Dumb.  (sad)
--rezzed 20feet away in the village... rez sickness.  Was stupified by a CROWD of trainers.  Holy shit there are a lot of classes. 
-- Got a horse, monorailed back to the harbour zone.  Remembered you have pay for rez sick healing.  Lost 10% of my fucking gold (sad).  Again, Christ Mythic -- stop being so fucking punitive and puritanical with players.

Can't argue with any of the above...

--got a port from an NPC to Camelot.  Was stupefied by number of players all with EQ2-like shard titles, like "Bumbum of Pellinor".  We'll see what happens tonight.

The "of Pellinor" is due to server clustering.  Several servers are grouped so that all of their players can RvR in the same zones and teleport from server to server for PvE.  Every player from a clustered server will show up with those titles.

All in all, I am still very impressed they have my characters and their gear from so several years of not playing.  However, the first impressions are blocky, balky, dated, and a little annoying.  I will keep at it, however, since I want to check out the content and some PvP

If your wizard is 44, definitely try the 40-44 battleground.  It's just a big island with some towers and a keep, in the middle of a huge ocean.  It really bites if one side controls all the towers and the keep, but it can be fun in the right scenario.

As for your other thoughts, yes the graphics are definitely dated.  Darkness Rising actually has some very nice graphics in certain zones, but those are mainly instanced quest zones.  DR did not help the general appearance of the game, outside the capital cities.  And I'm sure Hrose will mention that the DR zones are graphically interesting but fundamentally empty of interesting content.  PvE is still boring as watching batshit dry, and RvR is really the fun side of the game. 

RvR is mainly fun in certain battlegrounds.  I've found that the level 35-39 BG is by far the most fun on almost all servers -- it's the most populated, there is no water, and there is some half-interesting terrain.  In fact I have found guilds who specialize in playing that battleground.  They literally have no characters above level 39, and they powerlevel alts to that level range ROFL.  It's a level range where most characters have received their key abilities, and you can earn enough realm points to specialize your character a bit there.  Leave it to Mythic to make their mid-range "RvR training ground" the most fun part of the game.

[HRose]

A few notes from my first impressions returning to the game last night (maybe will pen a review if I spend more time actually engaging the new content and rulesets, since there is no DAoC area in f13 to chew about)

--found and installed the old DAoC and SI disks.  Realized too late needed only to run SI.

See, this is already a problem. Because a fair view on the game cano only be given with the current and complete version of the game. even better if with a toon newly created on the Classic servers.

Then we can speak about the complaints and problems, but running an old version just won't help you to get a "brand new" impression. 

--was disappointed that the UI was so poor (sad).  Was disappointed nothing had changed, that there was no hearthstone-like equivalent to warp to bind point (sad), was disappointed that the graphics looked appalling on my high end PC (that survived running two instances of SWG).  So I'm hoping this was my fault with the Catacombs install and that the options will be revealed to improve all the blocky circa-1999 graphics.  The character models seem all the same.  I understand with ToA there are XML UI mods to use, so I hope those are available without ToA.  After all, they make WoW bareable.

The UI is poor and would benefit from many tweaks and features (I've suggested many in these years and recently). But it does the work nicely when you get used to it. It's not an insurmountable barrier. it isn't fancy as WoW but it's still one of the most linear and usable.

The new UIs are surely better, but they are still simple reskins and layout tweaks since the UI isn't programmable as in WoW.

The hearthstone in WoW is one of the most intelligent feature ever. And you'll miss it in every other game, no doubt on that.

The (Catacombs) models are bearable. They are glitchy and not so good but overall they fit with the world and I don't think they are an element that prevents someone to appreciate the game.

--the movement controls and mouse controls are disappointing (sad).  There is no support for the mouse-wheel?  Only very basic zoom, no FP perspective?  (sad).

I never had any problem with DAoC's controls. I have them configured to work exactly like WoW and despite they aren't as smooth and polished they are still working okay and without major problems I had in other games. I zoom in and out with the mouse wheel exactly like in WoW and I can go quickly to the FP. DAoC has also a fancy camera mode where you can "drop" the camera in one spot and move your character indipendently.

--the combat is still frustrating, so far.  The interruptions on spells is too much (I was fighting 3 greens for Christ sake).  With WoW at least you are shown a timer bar for cast time.  You're not given any sense in DAoC of where your cast is.  I literally would try casting and then wait only to see my toon was standing still -- he would get interrupted and stop casting! (SAD!)  Fuck....  And, the button UI was not new enough to show a texture timer -- they were just greyed out and I had to keep punching to recast.  Also, the directions of combat in DAoC are good enough that you need to face directly all attackers, so my attackers shifting on me would get out of focus (as it were).  Trouble with the controls added to my pwn'ness.

These problems are from a player that now expects everything plays as WoW. In DAoC you don't use spells if you are melee. You just cannot (if you don't use quickcast). The game is balanced considering that the target should be dead once it reaches you. In a group you also aren't supposed to get aggro.

The tooltips and buffs shows the correct timers. Again assuming you aren't in melee.

Of course this doesn't mean that the mechanic is well designed. This is what I suggested a while ago to not change the mechanic but to, at least, make it usable:
"- Redesign completely how interrupts, stuns and immunity timers work -> The interrupts shouldn't break an action but just put it "on hold". So without requiring the player to keep spamming a key. The spell should trigger as (if) there's a right moment to cast it. The spell should remain in the queue till the spell is succesfully casted or the players interrupts it directly. Stuns should never last longer than 5 seconds, mezz should never last longer than 15, immunity timers should last a fixed amount of time (like 15 sec) without a variation or special cases. When an immunity timer is active it should show a specific blinking icon."

--died, waited....waited.... waited.....  remembered/figured out I had to type "/release".  Dumb.  (sad)

This is the usual lack of polish of the game. There are almost endless examples like this one. Just with the last patch they added a "/release entrance" to use inside an instance. I find this kind of design completely unacceptable and, once again, something I ranted about for years:
"They also follow a principle that I think should be always applied to every game and that is a recurring fault in DAoC: when a new patch is ready to be released publicly, one of the devs should browse through each fix and new feature to see if it passes a simple test. If the test is passed the fix can be approved and published, if the check isn't passed the new feature/fix must go back in development and adjusted accordingly.

The test is simple: a player should always be able to understand a change or use a new feature without reading the patch notes."

--rezzed 20feet away in the village... rez sickness.  Was stupified by a CROWD of trainers.  Holy shit there are a lot of classes.  This tiny log fort had maybe 15 trainers.  Mind boggling.  Makes me remember all the laughs we would get in SWG wondering how newbies start -- when you have 15+ classes there's really a lot of swirl you shouldn't have trying to start a game.  Extra cognitive load != fun.  Still, that's the game so neither sad or nice.

Many classes are both good and bad. Since they cannot go back, they could at least improve on the weaknesses by making them all-around.

-- Got a horse, monorailed back to the harbour zone.  Remembered you have pay for rez sick healing.  Lost 10% of my fucking gold (sad).  Again, Christ Mythic -- stop being so fucking punitive and puritanical with players.  Can't other players cure other players? Why mandatory?  Why so expensive?  At least in WoW it's just item decay and you can select which items you want to repair.  In DAoC you have to pay 10% it seems to cure your Con back to normal.

DAoC's economy is HARSH on new players. But the money is also rather easy to make. There are way more significant moneysinks than the one at the healer. Basically all the game seems pivoting about timesinks, grinds, treadmills, moneysinks. It's really old style on this aspect and it didn't improve at all. Whenever they add a new mechanic or try to solve a problem they always go back to use those patterns (for example the new horses were a way to add epic mounts costing up to 15 plats).

All in all, I am still very impressed they have my characters and their gear from so several years of not playing.  However, the first impressions are blocky, balky, dated, and a little annoying.  I will keep at it, however, since I want to check out the content and some PvP

It's definitely blocky, balky, dated, and a little annoying. And in most cases it learnt nothing from previous mistakes and didn't much to add something really new that wasn't already there on day one.

Still, it's RvR is unrivaled when it comes to have some serious fun and getting involved in some large-scale environments that aren't a dumbed down version of Counterstrike. The RvR is both the area where the game has the most problems and potential and the whole game basically follow that trend. From a side it's still the best out there. From the other it ruins all its potential because of awful design and a general attitude that damaged the game so much.

It's all ambiguous, the RvR in particular. It can go from the most boring and dull experience ever, to the most fun PvP you'll remember.

I just wish they dared and experimented a bit more instead of sitting and enjoying the momentum (that now is gone).

[Soln]

Still, it's RvR is unrivaled when it comes to have some serious fun and getting involved in some large-scale environments that aren't a dumbed down version of Counterstrike. The RvR is both the area where the game has the most problems and potential and the whole game basically follow that trend. From a side it's still the best out there. From the other it ruins all its potential because of awful design and a general attitude that damaged the game so much.

It's all ambiguous, the RvR in particular. It can go from the most boring and dull experience ever, to the most fun PvP you'll remember.

I just wish they dared and experimented a bit more instead of sitting and enjoying the momentum (that now is gone).

thanks for the reply.  I only did have the old and SI installs and not sure about what to do about Cats.  I understand the new skin is free (and have it now working -- had reinstall everything last night), but I guess I still need the "Cats expansion".  All in all, it's a bit harder to rejoin than I thought, but I won't criticize Mythic for it.  The following, however, is vague:

http://catacombs.darkageofcamelot.com/downloads.php
Dark Age of Camelot: Catacombs Expansion Pack
You can now download the Catacombs expansion pack for installation on your computer. Please choose the appropriate download....
NOTE: To access this content, you must first purchase and activate the expansion pack via the ACCOUNT INFO / VIEW EXPANSIONS screen after logging into the game. An activation fee of $ 19.99 will be charged. A major credit card is required, or use PayByCash.com. 
Coming Back to Camelot? Log into the game using your original user name and password, reactivate your account and the Catacombs expansion, and download the appropriate file from the above list. Welcome home!"

Do I have to purchase the Cats expansion to access the new content?  Hopefully, it's part of the 10/8 days free trial I have left.


On to last night...

I had an unfortunate night running around Cammie, trying to remember and get help.  A few observations:

--the "advisors" program is still there, but no one responded. (sad) but mostly unlucky for me

--I could not remember the short-cut key to auto-reply to a tell (/r puts me into rest).  I also could not figure out how to quickly reply to e.g. "Silverwing-Pellinor" -- the shard-titles are now required to reply to all toons?  You have to type in the person's name for every tell plus their server name?  (sad?)

--could not figure out the mount stuff.  Ran around and around... Eventually deduced I need the Darkness Rising expansion (on trial) which requires Cats (on trial) etc.  Again, my problem, just some severe large downloads to do, however.   We're talking more than 3hrs total now on cable.  So be it, again my problem if I decide to renew to get to some new features.  Figured would be a little easier though.

--tons of new NPC's, all seeming to be revolving doors.  It seems Mythic is making a big effort to get players to the content and RvR quickly. (nice) Hopefully, I can find out where the fuck things are actually going on, however...

--last observation, again highly subjective:  I'm on Kay, whatever consolidated cluster that is.  I was pretty surprised that the few players on -- and for Cammie like IF in WoW, it's a central hub for Albion -- there were maybe 50-100 I saw over my time there last night but no one seemed to give a shit.  There's always reluctance to help newbies, but I figured in game so pounded down some people would've welcomed returning players.  I was spamming things like "anyone able to answer a few questions?  I'm lvl44 and just returned from a year+ away"  for nearly an hour.  No fucking exaggeration.  I couldn't tell how to see the bonus features on my gear (not just the stats you see from right clicking).  Other basic UI and expansion troubles etc.  I got one tell after the 40min mark from someone who likewise had been gone a while.  But of limited help.  So, not sure what the attitude of the player base is, but if I renew I'd like to learn where people are playing etc.  Guildless too.  Again, my problem, but one would think if Mythic was serious on getting players back they would have a CSR on or an email etc.  I mean, there's less 1000 people playing on that cluster -- you would think there'd be some extra help or basic goodwill to get people some info.  (sad)

so, not giving up, but so far not really enjoying myself.  Will make an effort to get Cats and get to some content.  I won't quit until I've had a chance to RvR, which was indeed the best PvP I've ever had. 

[Lum]

I could not remember the short-cut key to auto-reply to a tell (/r puts me into rest).

The default is the "r" key (not /r) when you get a tell. Typing /keyboard brings up a window with all your current keybindings (something which was added while you were away I think - you can now change your keybindings without logging out through that window).

I also could not figure out how to quickly reply to e.g. "Silverwing-Pellinor" -- the shard-titles are now required to reply to all toons?  You have to type in the person's name for every tell plus their server name?

Only if there's a Silverwing on another server that's on. It's a necessary evil when having multiple characters with the same name in the same gamespace.

could not figure out the mount stuff.  Ran around and around... Eventually deduced I need the Darkness Rising expansion (on trial) which requires Cats (on trial) etc.  Again, my problem, just some severe large downloads to do, however.   We're talking more than 3hrs total now on cable.  So be it, again my problem if I decide to renew to get to some new features.  Figured would be a little easier though.

As others mentioned, your best bet is to bite the bullet and download the Catacombs engine, which is free (the Catacombs content, such as new classes and instanced dungeons isn't, but is available online for download now for a $20 fee). Basic player controlled horses don't require Darkness Rising (which doesn't have a free trial, since it was just released this month) but advanced mounts do.

tons of new NPC's, all seeming to be revolving doors.  It seems Mythic is making a big effort to get players to the content and RvR quickly. (nice) Hopefully, I can find out where the fuck things are actually going on, however...

One thing you can do to help is talk to "Barkeeps" ("Wanderers" in Catacombs areas) that will point out level-appropriate quests that are available to you in that area.

There's always reluctance to help newbies, but I figured in game so pounded down some people would've welcomed returning players.  I was spamming things like "anyone able to answer a few questions?  I'm lvl44 and just returned from a year+ away"  for nearly an hour.

Asking for help in cities probably isn't the best way to get help, unfortunately, as people are usually in a hurry to get to where they're going. Frontier keeps are usually more social.

Will make an effort to get Cats and get to some content.  I won't quit until I've had a chance to RvR, which was indeed the best PvP I've ever had. 

Thanks for your comments, they've been circulated among the team. It's rare that we get detailed feedback from someone looking at the game as a complete newcomer. We've been working on the experience a new player sees upon joining the game; as you've noted we still have quite a lot of work to do.

[HRose]

Thanks for your comments, they've been circulated among the team. It's rare that we get detailed feedback from someone looking at the game as a complete newcomer. We've been working on the experience a new player sees upon joining the game; as you've noted we still have quite a lot of work to do.

I wish you could also have listened to those that offered those comments for *years*. And yes, about the newbie experience and, yes, even if they come from experienced players.

My two pages of more or less fancy suggestions are here and here.

I'd also add that it could be a good idea to add a /release and /release entrance button to the UI window with the green time out bar.