Guitar thread

[Raph]

I posted up the chords and lyrics for the song I posted here a bit ago.

recording:
http://www.raphkoster.com/music/DeadCheerleaders.mp3

chords & words:
http://www.raphkoster.com/2010/10/31/the-halloween-song-dead-cheerleaders/

[Fraeg]

been slouching, the fact that all i have is a horrid sounding 5w practice amp is not helping.

thinking about buying one of these as a head, 20w tube with a great price.  Unsure about cabinets, I have always had combos, thinking a 2x12

http://www.jetcityamplification.com/2009/09/19/jca-20h/

[Raph]

Xmas this year, I asked for (and got) music gear.

It took me all day today, but I have managed to set up a brand-new M-Audio ProjectMix I/O as my recording soundcard for Acid Pro. 8 inputs plus MIDI and it is managing to coexist with my Audigy, so i still have the MIDI on that plus I can use it for ordinary sound needs. Having motorized faders and being able to do automation with them feels awesome. :)

I also got a Blue Yeti mic and an Icicle (XLR to USB adapter) for messing about with iPad recording.

[Sky]

*drool*

I got a footstand for playing classical. We're on tough times around here, probably going to get a lot tougher.

I'm still working a bit on my classical repertoire and need to focus down onto a few pieces to polish up. Been playing a lot of Tarrega through a couple transcribers and I've hit the point where I need to take about 50% of one transcirption, 25% of another and 25% of my own fingerings and write my own transcription.

And trying to get a clean recording of a classical piece, I've complained about that before (as well as learning new hand placements with my el cheapo full size classical instead of the Baby). When I was cooking on xmas, I had a classical guitar cd from the library in and had to turn it off because the guy was messing up so much, without any finesse to the playing...so I do realize I put a lot of pressure on myself, hah.

Here's a couple I'm working on (not me, but good versions):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K474y2EpHN4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrQBNeY-y0A

[Samwise]

I feel lame even posting in this thread since I'm nowhere near the level of you all, but I have been getting back in the habit of picking up the guitar and messing around (it tends to come and go).  Got all excited when I realized that my fingertips had proper calluses again.  

Since I've got a little more room in my home office these days I'm thinking I might dedicate some space to getting all my guitars in one room and setting up the amp.  The last time I tried messing around with that I was living in an apartment and the downstairs neighbors would complain regardless of how low the volume was set, so I just had to give up and go back to the acoustic, but that shouldn't be an issue these days.

[Sky]

Sam, now you shut your damned piehole about that 'nowhere near the level' hooey. Nonsense. We all start somewhere, and some of us started twice. Back in 99, when I was unemployed and pretty disconsolate, I was listening to Houses of the Holy and decided to learn Over the Hills and Far Away, after not playing for about four years (and even then, I hadn't played much guitar for years, as I was a bassist). Took me a while to learn it, but that sense of accomplishment got me back into playing and now I'm way better than I ever was on guitar.

So three cheers for Samwise, always like hearing about people getting into playing.

Got turned onto a barn jam, but it's a bit of a haul, over an hour away. Hate logistics. Not sure if I'm more excited about the jam sessions or volunteering to split wood. Several of the acts have begun recording together, though, so it could be interesting. Seems like roots/blues/bluegrass stuff with a bit of obligatory classic rock.

[Miguel]

Here is my latest creation:

Rage - Killing in the Name (New Bass)

I took the Rock Band stem tracks and re-mixed it with my own bass track.

I'm working on an album where we are trying to get that Rage/groove/hard rock sound, so I'm starting with known entities.  Here's my bass setup:

1) Fender Jazz clone - rewired to support series mode (used on this recording)
2) Two bass tracks recorded - one is clean DI, the other is through my Sansamp RBI (which nails the SVT grit sound)
3) Both bass tracks are run through speaker sims (8x10" cab sims to be exact)
4) I used tape saturation plugins extensively to try to add that 'saturated' mix sound

Let me know what you think of the overall sound (please forgive the bass screw-ups...it was 1 take!).

[stray]

I now play a PRS SE (the 25th anniversary models.. 25" scale.. they are awesome cheapos) and a Line 6 Spider IV. I still have a my modded Jazzmaster sitting around, but it's like I don't need anything else. I feel like I can "shred" a little more than I ever did, and the amp is versatile is hell. Line 6 is definitely where to go for digital.. Probably old news. But I've owned the Vox amps and they just don't have their shit together as far as tying the product line in with PC interactivity.

And Sam, I'll reiterate what Sky said. For someone who's played since he was 13, I'm going to say that I "suck".   Hendrix started when he was 13 and look where he got. :\ I sat in my room alone as long as he did and I'm still not there.. He's not even an advanced player, technically. Some people just have the right "feel", I think, even if it's John Lee Hooker playing 2 notes. And some people take a long time to get anywhere.

Uh.. not sure what my point is. Don't feel bad.

On a sidenote, any of you acoustic guys like Bert Jansch? He's old, but I just discovered him. Good stuff

[Sky]

My old hd that had some of my digital transfers of old practice tapes (I only have a couple) died a long time ago, finally started that project again. Found some old tapes when cleaning out some boxes at my mother's place and got all excited...but my goddamned ex-girlfriend's mother had taped over parts of two of them and even then they're from a period when we were breaking in a new drummer, so it's mostly teaching him songs. The rest is just song idea jottings and one cassette that was from our 4-track, so the speed is all slow on a regular cassette player (and only two tracks per side). Kinda bummed. I did find a fragment of one song I had forgotten, in its first stage of being written. Really sucks not having recordings of the vast majority of our stuff, we wrote prolifically and I don't have a single good recording of anything, really. And what I do have is a fraction of our catalog.

[Merusk]

So my daughter has been bugging us for a guitar for over a year now. We'd said no because she joined band in 6th grade and wanted to play sax but lost interest after 4 months and won't practice.  I wasn't going to blow the cash on a guitar and have her do the same thing.

Well, at Christmas she was still adamant that she wanted to play guitar so I bought her a cheap $40 one off Amazon that's been on backorder until this week and will arrive Monday or Tuesday.  I figure this way I'm not out too much if she loses interest.  Who knows, I was the same way about photography at her age and my parents didn't indulge me and now I feel like I missed out on a lot of time for my favorite hobby.  I can't do the same to her.

She's got picks and a strap and I was going to pay for lessons, but being unemployed now there's no way we can afford the $80 a month.  So, my question to you guys is this.  Do you know of any decent resources online that'll teach a 12 year old?  She's found a bunch of youtube vids and I can of course try  but I'd rather get some leads from you guys who actually know about this.

Thanks!

[Sky]

I don't really do much of anything online for lessons, so grains of salts and whatnots.

http://www.acguitar.com/lessons/ I used to sub to this mag, but it's usually aimed way too low with too much advertising. Since we're talking beginner, it might be something to look into. They cover a lot of the basic strums, chords and rhythms.

http://www.guitarworld.com/articles/lessons Guitar World is one of the last lesson-based mags standing after the deaths of Guitar One and GftPM. Lessons are probably too advanced, but feature a somewhat more diverse range (mostly metal/rock/blues/jazz).

Google kicks over a couple more stones, but I don't know anything about them. I would highly recommend getting a real instructor. Someone she feels comfortable with and can understand her goals, musically; basically teach her the fundamentals in a framework of artists she gives a damn about, rather than Mary Had A Little Lamb (unless she's a Buddy Guy/SRV fan, I guess). Youtube is also a good idea, I've heard the kids are into that and whatnot.

Again, the teacher could be the thing, but it can also totally turn her off if it's not a good fit. The ideal is to get someone who can get her up and running playing some basic strum versions of songs she loves to hook her in, and then give her the tools she needs (repertoire/practice/study) to improve from there.

edit: oops, just saw the 'financial clause'. What kind of music does she want to play, who are her favorite artists? I'll see if I can track down some cheap/free ideas suited to the student.

[Merusk]

She says she wants to play rock.  Her favorite bands are Green Day, Evanesence, 3-doors down, Fallout Boy, Bruno Mars.  She also mentioned Cage the Elephant, Muse and Rob/ White Zombie.  Needless to say an understanding of a consistent style is not quite instilled in her.

[Nebu]

She says she wants to play rock.  Her favorite bands are Green Day, Evanesence, 3-doors down, Fallout Boy, Bruno Mars.  She also mentioned Cage the Elephant, Muse and Rob/ White Zombie.  Needless to say an understanding of a consistent style is not quite instilled in her.

I think the best way to learn is to start with the major open chord forms first (E, A, C, D, G, F) and then recognize how they transform in bar chords.  Once you learn that and the shapes of the scales and pentatonics, then move on to the minor chords and repeat.

That right there will open the door to thousands of songs.  Then again, I'm a bass player.  I learned everything by understanding chord shapes and scales first.  If you can see the neck in patterns, it all begins to fall apart.  I wish that someone would have taught me this way rather than playing Smoke on the Water a hundred times.   

[Sky]

Well, there's the right way and the fast track. I'd also recommend learning the right way, but the fast track is what hooks you in. It's better to play smoke on the water than practice making an A chord for an hour (I still can't make 'em good in open position).

Something like a strum book give some nice chord charts so you can visualize how a chord looks and refer back to it as you learn the song. These work best if you know the songs, because it's just the lyrics with a note of what chord to play. The upside is it's relatively easy, you're just strumming the chords. The downside is you're not getting the actual guitar parts, for which you'd need a more advanced book like this.

A website like this can give you a similar chart as well as tablature that should be pretty close to the recorded version, internet tabs are notoriously sloppy. But you don't get the chord diagrams on the web, so visualization is tougher.

There's a whole school of thought about standard notation vs tablature. I like both, ideally you'd learn standard notation first, but once you figure out tablature, it's easy. Another scenario where I favor getting the student to the fun asap. They may regret not learning the 'right way' (as Nebu and I and most guitarists will), but I think it's more important to hook the student in so they play long enough to regret taking shortcuts :)

[Raph]

I have never had a guitar lesson ever. I did it all out of books. Find the songbook for her favorite album and a chord book and see what happens.

[stray]

I took lessons for a bit when I was 13, and I kind of wish I had stuck with it.. he was a Julliard grad. I probably would have turned out badass.

Anyways, I just used books or played by ear myself. I created little "rites of passage" for myself.. So I'd just reiterate what Raph said. Have her learn songs she likes.

As for me, I got lazy on even learning those things note for note, and started learning only parts or the basic melody.. and then improvising the rest.. and then moving on to my own riffs, taking little bits and pieces of everything I learned and putting them together into something new. I respect people who put more thought into it all, but I'm not a technical player myself. There's a different level of discipline there. I used to kind of feel inferior for this, but people are different. This is going to seem unrelated, but I've been on this Jungian/MBTI kick, and I definitely fall in the "F" category. Some people play technical, some go by aesthetic feel. Not to carry about that, but I think it'd be a great help to pinpoint where a person is on that level and encourage it. If you force some alien approach, they'll quit or just starting lack any enthusiasm for it down the road.

[Merusk]

Yeah I agree getting lessons is probably the best way, but short of a winning lottery ticket that's not happening for a few months at least. (Yay job market.)  I shall look into all of these.  Thanks for the tips, guys.

[Sky]

Going off the Moore thread, lest it get too musiciany :)

I mentioned Cantiga, they're really one of my favorite bands. Check out Conrado once he picks up the charanga partway through (especially ay 2:48 when he starts his mad strum attack). He's a big inspiration on my playing. I've asked him for tips, he just does what he does, without thinking about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2xmbm2rTik

Last night I got out of the shower with a strong urge to play some Master of Puppets. Plugged in for the first time in a looong time, the SG was a bit resistant at first. Turns out I remember most of it (except all but a sketch of the solo parts) and can still play it to speed, though the downpicking during the verse is a specialized skill that would need polishing. I just played syncopated parts instead and pulled through it. Then I went into some Buddy Guy stuff from Hoodoo Man Blues, then some Allman Brothers jamming. Then went upstairs and hit the Baby (wait, you know what I mean) for some Classical tunes, my current favorite is Folias by Gaspar Sanz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWzswSPbsNM - though done with a bit more ornamentation than my version has notated...guy has perfect emotive force on it, though. Missing from so much classical guitar. For instance, here's a less perfect version, lacking the passion (imo): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEmeero7LUA

I wish I could concentrate on perfecting one part of my repertoire before getting distracted :p

[Sky]

My main repertoire book is sitting at my desk at work waiting to be broken down, hole punched and put into a binder. 300 page sheet music books should be spiral-bound, ffs. Went to do it and realized I'd need a 9x12 binder, and who has those? So off to teh intarnets for a special order that setting me back a few, waiting on that to come in. I bought two, one for current tunes and another for storage. I hope this allows me some better portability to maybe take the setup to the renfaire and sit in with some folks at some point.

The good thing is that sitting under my main book was my Tarrega book, which I'd been neglecting. So I've dipped back into Capricho Arabe in a big way, and also Adelita. I'd done some work on both, but both contain a couple tough fingerings. Capricho has several, though they're getting much easier already, and it forces a nice lesson in playing closed position D-shape chord with an alternating bass (3rd and 4th figures being the LH fingers for the 1st and 2nd figures, respectively):

5    5    3    3
6    6    4    4
5    5    2    2
x    x    x     x
3    x    1    x
x    3    x    1

There's a couple of closed chords with the alternating bass like that. Not super difficult, really, but not stuff I'd normally play so just a matter of getting the muscle memory, which means practice, practice, practice! The Adelita has a barre with a pull-off that my fingers just hate. I suck at barres anyway and usually just use fragments, so that's not helping. It's kind of a

8---9p8----------- 
x---------------8--   
x----------8---8--
x---------------7--
x-------------------
8-------------------


I also had an issue when I tried changing strings, I've never actually owned a classical guitar before, I just played them at school. So it's my first time changing strings because the wrappings were gone at the first several frets. The rocktards at the local music shop gave me ball-end replacement strings. Cheesy, but easy I guess. The high E broke immediately. So I bought a traditional set and just used the high E...which broke immediately.

They also seem much thinner than the ones that came on the guitar, or that I've ever played. When I was buying the second set, I intentionally looked for thicker strings, but they looked to be one size, which is crazy (since it's too thin). Both sets (Martin and D'Addario iirc) are also very bright, like electric wound strings. The G and B are ok (if a bit thin and loose). I solved the E string issue by using the B from the second pack, that seems to be working great so far.

Didn't realize how much I missed my classical guitar, I really love playing it, even if it's a supra cheapo - the neck finish is already going away. The guitar is basically disposable and I'm eyeing a battered old spanish-make nylon as a trade-in. It's old and cheap and beat to shit...but it's got an ebony fingerboard, at least.

[Raph]

I don't think my fingers are long enough to do those Capricho fingerings on a classical's fretboard. I have small hands.

Got the last Rock Band "real guitar" in all of San Diego yesterday. Have barely started to mess with it... just tried hooking it to the game. But the real thing I got it for was to try it out as a MIDI guitar.

[Sky]

I don't think my fingers are long enough to do those Capricho fingerings on a classical's fretboard. I have small hands.

Me too. Made playing bass on a long scale bass (my old Peavey I started on) a total bitch. Still not the toughest chord in my practice list. That belongs to Bach's Prelude in Dm, which goes from a standard fingering Dm with a descending bass pattern to this monster:

1
3
4
x
x
4

With a descending bass on the D string! Even the stretch of

5
5
5
x
x
1

after an intervening Am chord is a relief. Goddamned Bach voicings :p That said, I do love the classical's scale for playing fingerstyle, it's wide enough to let me use a little bit of the techniques I developed over the years on the bass. I was playing some electric for the first time in a while and the pick felt so limiting, although the ability to play faster single note runs was nice.

[Raph]

One wall of the music room, which is finally starting to take shape. In order: 1894 S S Stewart banjo, Washburn electric bass, 1962 Gibson acoustic, Blueridge jumbo cutaway acoustic electric, 1962 Gibson Melody Maker.



Another wall here we have a new Venezuelan cuatro, an Xmas present from my mom. Played very percussively, note the strike plate on the top. A Michael Kelly mandolin, round soundhole on an F style body. Then a 1950s Harmony baritone uke that used to be my grandfather's. Haven't been able to date it more precisely. Below you can see my new ProjectMix board and monitors, a drum machine, and the corner of the digital piano. Oh, and the dragon.



Have not got enough hangers to do anything with the Rock Band Squier MIDI guitar, the Baby Taylor, the Fernandes Nomad Star Wars electric, and have no idea what to do with the mountain dulcimer.

First thing recorded in here, pretty rough.

http://www.raphkoster.com/music/AprilSnails.mp3

Fun guitar playing factoid: the closing harmonics are played at fret 2.2 (between frets 2 & 3).

[Trippy]

Yeah I agree getting lessons is probably the best way, but short of a winning lottery ticket that's not happening for a few months at least. (Yay job market.)  I shall look into all of these.  Thanks for the tips, guys.

Is your daughter still playing the guitar?

[Sky]

Congrats on the music room, Raph. I'm relegated to the basement, my house is too small for a better dedicated space right now. Cool on the cuatro, have you tried the charango? One of my favorite players is a charangista, it's mostly a percussive instrument but also allows for a lot of scale work (he uses a pignose as a cheater for volume on the melodic passages).

Nothing new here, still same status as last post. B section of Capricho Arabe (about 2:30 to 3:00) still a stone cold bitch thanks to the d-shaped chording at the third fret. Just lots of barre work with ornamentals above, and barres are a weak spot for me, as I mentioned (and that one barre in Adelita is still challenging). A section is completely memorized and C section is playable without error much of the time. Having unbound the books into a 3-ring binder was a really great move, it's wide enough to lay out all three pages and I only have to flip one (since I have the A-section memorized).

Well, a couple new developments, I've been approached for some gigs. Local renfaire promoter has been making suggestions and a coffee house has also asked me to play. Cable tv gets turned off at the end of the month and my goal is to build at least a solid 45 minute set by July. I can probably scrape together enough really basic pieces to pad it out, but I really, really want the Capricho as my centerpiece, since it's my favorite tune. I've put off the Bach Prelude for now, only room for one technical piece at a time!

[Sky]

I've recruited the fiancee to "Pandora" my repertoire, give me thumbs up or down on whether to incorporate a song. Problem is, she's all thumbs up, dammit.

I was going through marking my sheet music with three tabs *ready *tough passages and *needs work/not ready. Breaks down to about 1/2 ready, and split between the other two for the other half. Spent an hour playing through that, so I already have roughly a half hour out of that material, and it's about half of my normal practice repertoire. So I'm in better shape than I thought, even if the stuff I really like most is in the *tough passages and *not ready categories :)

[Nebu]

RISE!

I just played around with one of these the other day and thought that it may be a handy gadget to help my daughter get more excited about learning new songs on guitar/bass.  Amazon is selling them today for $99 and it gave me pause.  Anyone else play with one of these?

Tascam Guitar Trainer

[Sky]

I never used a slow downer (soft or hardware), but I'm probably atypical for every answer, heh. I mean, if you like it and think it will stimulate some progress (and if it's in your budget, obviously), why not? At worst, if she doesn't like it, you can mess around with it. I can see a lot of use for it when I listen to guys like Kruno Spisic and my heads spins trying to think of playing sustained fast passages without sheet music.

With the SD card and overdubbing, it could be a great idea notepad, too.

To update my gig possibility: the renfaire was rainy, so I didn't go. The local renfaire drunks said it was great...but probably less so for the sober.

[Fraeg]

just picked up a modded Orange tiny Terror head, and have ordered a Whitebox Amplification 2x12 cab with a Governer and a Texas Heat speakers.   Still waiting on the cab so all i can do is gaze longengly at my Tiny Terror.   

[Selby]

I've been working on several Zappa songs a lot lately and my fingers are killing me.  In addition to resuming lessons to be able to read sheet music and understand theory, I'm having a better time than I've had in years with it.  15 years of bad and lazy habits are hard to undo though.

Still thinking about hunting down an acoustic guitar... but have zero idea what is actually "good" vs. "really expensive" vs. "complete crap"

[Trippy]

Still thinking about hunting down an acoustic guitar... but have zero idea what is actually "good" vs. "really expensive" vs. "complete crap"

What's your budget and what type of playing (fingerstyle, strumming, etc.)?

[Selby]

What's your budget and what type of playing (fingerstyle, strumming, etc.)?

I really play both styles depending on the song.

As far as budget, I don't want to break the bank.  I was thinking $350-500 would be a nice start, but I've been so out of touch with musical instrument costs I have zero idea what is "fair" vs. what is "ripping you off."  The music stores in my town growing up had the market cornered and a cheap electric or acoustic to start with ran upwards of $600 and most models they carried were in the $1500+ range (this was in the mid 90's too).

[Trippy]

I'd start by looking at the Yamaha FG730S ($300) and the Seagull S6 ($400). Those two guitars are probably the most recommended entry-level acoustic guitars. Both have solid tops and laminated sides and backs. The Seagull is made in Canada rather than China like the Yamaha is which is one of the reasons it's more expensive and is probably slightly better suited to fingerstyle than the Yamaha because it has a cedar top, wider string spacing and slightly shorter scale length (less string tension). Neither of those come with a case or gig bag at those prices so you'll want to factor that in as well.

There are a lot of reasonable quality acoustic guitars coming out of China now so in terms of "bang for the buck" at your price range that's where most of the choices will be (the Godin-brands guitars like the Seagull above being one of the exceptions). Brands that specialize in these kinds of guitars include Blueridge, Recording King, Silver Creek, and Eastman.

[Sky]

My two full-sized acoustics are crap.

[Sky]

Raph, I just posted a youtube of a nice version of Stones over in the Ultima Forever thread...which reminded me that you did a version. Is it similar to that version and if so, do you have the sheet music for it? I'd like to add it to the repertoire, maybe play it at the renfaire and see how many Ultima geeks it turns up.

Really hoping to get a couple things recorded soon. This summer, it's been crazy.

[Raph]

My version was the one that was on the alarm clock on Earth in U9. It was buried in production, you could hardly hear the guitar. I went looking to see if it was up on youTube anywhere, and didn't find it in a quick glance.

It was not a classical version really; like, I played the melody partly on harmonics. I'd have to figure it out all over again.