Guitar thread

[Sky]

You don't need to plug an electric in :) Ovations are good guitars, but I personally dislike them. It's an 80s thing.

You should buy it and pretend she did. Srsly. I wouldn't even buy something online, I need to put hands on and play it for a while before making that decision.

I have a $400 Alvarez that I thought was ok until I played my $250 mahogany Baby Taylor. I bought mine locally, so the price was better and I put in time playing it in the store before buying. I can't say enough about how great it sounds, almost freakishly so.

What kinds of hands do you have? Mine are on the small side, so the short scale and thin neck doesn't bother me and it sounds amazing.

[Salamok]

Med to Large hands (more on the large side).  The review on that link said this isn't a good 1st guitar (I'm assuming because of the scaled down fret board).  Seeing how it's been 20 years and even then my experience level was pretty much limited to being able to butcher ride the lightening so for practical reasons I would classify this as my 1st/learning to play guitar.

[Sky]

Go to a music store and try one out, most decent stores should stock Taylors, the Babies sell very well. It will probably be too small, but I'm not sure you'll find an acoustic that sounds that good in the price range, so it might be worth checking out.

Anyway, go to a music store and spend a few hours playing every guitar there. Only way to decide, it's different for everyone. Take the wife if she's intent on buying it herself so she can hear each one. My fiancee knew exactly which guitar I should get, as did everyone in the shop (my SG, I had intended to buy a Strat).

Also, if you're uncomfortable with your skill level and playing in a shop, the acoustics are usually in a seperate room :)

[Nebu]

I have a Tacoma and love it, but they start a bit higher in price.  If you're wanting a dreadnought in size and also want a pickup in your acoustic, I've found Washburn guitars to be a lot of instrument for the money.  Acoustic Guitar magazine routinely rates them as a best buy under $500.

Check out Zzounds.

[Raph]

I'm doing it again! From 2-4pm Pacific tomorrow (Black Friday) I'm playing a live 2 hour acoustic set on Metaplace.

http://www.metaplace.com/TheStage/play is the direct link.

[stray]

Telling you guys... Just play a Seagull. It won't kill you. Be it beginner or expert, they are hard to top in price/value. They are every bit as good as a baby taylor (in their own way), but at full sizes. And the affordable models are every bit as good as Martin's "cheaper" line (which are still a bit more). The only caveat is that most are constructed with slightly wider necks, but to me, that's a good thing.

[Raph]

In that price range, I second Seagull. Also try some Washburns and Yamahas. You can often find nice ones in pawn shops too.

[Miguel]

I put together a short MP3 demo of my new Rondo/SX Jazz bass.  It's a clone of a 75 Fender, but I removed
the ash try covers over the pickups and bridge (this one is very similar).

Drums are the Native Instruments Battery Pop Kit with overhead and room mic samples.  No effects, no EQ, bass goes direct into my Sansamp Bass RBI then to my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra.

Bass / Drum Demo

I really like the barky, growly tone I can get out of this thing, and it cost $150!

[Sky]

Funky! Nice sounds for $150, no doubt.

But I still despise fake drums with a burning hatred. 

[Sky]

If you really want to see where you are, record.

While I can sit and wail away blues or metal for hours, this classical shit is killin' me. Thought I had a couple pieces down, but the perfection required by the material + my own natural tendency to perfection (which I loosen up on with blues and smudge with distortion in metal, heh) = fffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Sat last night trying to get something down and almost threw the guitar through the window. Even stuff I've been playing for a couple years now, a missed note here, a poorly barred chord there, a slightly popped note, it's insane how perfect you have to be in every facet when recording classical stuff.

[stray]

I know what you mean.. Even if the slightest mistake while I'm muffling/doing some beat gets me nutty. The classical players can play that well in performance too. I'm not really sure why they're so precise. It can't just be proper "form" can it?

[Selby]

I'm not really sure why they're so precise. It can't just be proper "form" can it?

My guitar instructor was a classical guitarist.  He stressed proper form just as a means of preventing bad habits and being able to take it to the next level.  He said proper form wasn't necessary to be a "good" guitarist if that was what I was after, but if I wanted to be "great" I would need to fix some bad habits and practice form lots.  I changed to suit what he said, and it did make me "better" but I am far from "great" or even "good."  He did mention that he would practice for 7-8 hours per day as if it was a job to ensure that he was on top of his game at all times (performance, practice, etc) because he was getting paid to do so.  He was an interesting guy... said I needed to get laid to loosen up and relax more.

[Sky]

Yeah, when I was doing it for a living I was practicing at least 7 hours a day and then when I was in school it was more like 10 minimum, between school, homework, personal practice and band rehearsal and performance. It was insane, but musically one of the highlights of my life, living music with everyone around you.

Most of that period I was on bass, though 

I have begun cleaning up my form and posture, some of the old method books (so far I'm preferring Carcassi over Sor) are amazing for technique, even without an instructor. I've changed several fingerings, though it's tough to remove over twenty years of muscle memory.

But in the end, that's one of the things I love about music and the guitar. No matter how good you get, you're never good enough. Maybe the top handful of guitarists who have been lucky enough to have good genetics, talent, dedication, and the time to invest can see the pinnacle. But to be a pretty damned decent guitar player and still be crappy in the grand scheme of things says volumes about the depth of the art.

[Raph]

http://www.raphkoster.com/music/TakeOnMe.mp3

Yes, THAT Take On Me. Heh. :)

[Amarr HM]

Selby is right on the money or his teacher was, it really allows a lot more freedom of movement and likely a lot less stress on the hands/wrists/arms if you maintain good posture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBE3C3IG46g (shameless plug of an old school friend of mine)

This position totally makes sense when you think about it.

[Raph]

http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/12/20/the-sunday-song-holidays/

Direct MP3 link: http://www.raphkoster.com/music/Holidays.mp3

I put some rough tab there this time. Open D.

[stray]

http://www.raphkoster.com/music/TakeOnMe.mp3

Yes, THAT Take On Me. Heh. :)

Nice arrangement. I might have to borrow it  

[Raph]

You want the chord chart?

[stray]

Sure, saves me trouble. My acoustic string's are broke though, and I'm lazy atm. Might not get around to it yet. 

[Raph]

Opening riff is basically the verse part. You can pick out the melody right on the Bm to E part, then on the high E string go 4-5-7 while plucking just the bass note. The A is just on the chord, and the melody on the D is just a D to D2.

Verse is like this. I play them all in root position, but at Capo IV. Capo whatever gets you the vocal range. :)

Bm        E    A                 D     
Talking away,  I don’t know what I’m to say
Bm               E   A              D     
I’ll say it anyway,Today’s another day to find you
Bm      E    F#m                      D   
Shine away, I’ll be coming for your love OK

Chorus is like this. For the vibe I was going for, when singing, I usually didn't play the G# bass on the E, and I fingered the F#m as 2xx222. When playing it instrumentally, I fingered all four chords off a barre on the 2nd fret, so

x0222x x02454 x4422x xxx232

A   E/G#  F#m  D
Take on me  (take on me) (2x)
A   E/G#  F#m  D
I’ll be gone
           A  E/G# F#m D
in a day or two

Chorus

Instrumental break is C#m G, repeated, then Bm E, then the verse, then the chorus.

Now, of course, you are obligated to post a recording, when you get to it.

[Raph]

Xmas present from my mom, a Venezuelan cuatro. Cedar body, jacaranda neck, hard case.

Turns out it is tuned low-to-high A-D-F#-B, which means it is fingered exactly like a guitar or my bari uke even though the tuning is re-entrant (the B is not higher than the F# -- it's down by the A again). Meant to be strummed madly though, this sort of thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BsjejU6bWE -- a song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db7SHs758Hs -- strumming techniques

[stray]

Hey thanks.. More basic than I thought.

I don't know if I'll get around to recording anytime soon. I don't have the equipment atm. I'm playing it in Drop C though. Heh. Not really working out well.. Trying to give the main melody a heavy punk feel.

[Fraeg]

Ramble ahead So I guess the point of that ramble was "used to play, stopped, getting back into it"

It was suggested to me to get an Mbox2 http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?itemid=4893
 and to pay for the full upgrade to my trial version of Ableton Live http://www.ableton.com/

These recommendations are coming from my younger brother who is a fairly serious electronica "musician".   I have read articles and reviews and yeah they both sound great.   But is it a bit overkill for a guy who just wants to basically make primitive industrial music (early godflesh and pitchshifter)?   I can see the Mbox 2 but my Cakewalk audio certainly still works.

So my real question is: what software do you folks use when you are recording your guitars?  Any experience with Ableton Live, and if so is it truely the bees knees?

[stray]

Ableton is performance/real time oriented, but for general recording, it simplifies workflow to just get your ideas down quickly (which is related to being Live oriented). If you really wanted it, I think you could skip the mbox and get something from m-audio instead (they bundle some version of Live last I checked). The mbox comes with ProTools, which is strictly a composing tool - but it's robust, industry standard, and every plug-in under the sun is made for it. Also, if you wanted to screw around with Live later, it can interface with ProTools.

What do I do? I used to have an old Mac with a nice (for the time) ProTools setup, but I haven't had shit for years. Honestly, if I want to record, I just lay down some idea through my webcam mic and record in Garage Band.   Really, I should spend some money, but I guess I'm not into it these days.

That said, look at m-audio for a Live bundle

[Sky]

I don't use computers to record. Some day I hope to use something to put things back together.

I use a Fostex MR8HD to record, it's wicked. 4 live simultaneous tracks with phantom XLRs or 1/4" DIs and 4 more tracks to bounce down. If I were to buy one again, I'd get the 16 track version. I like knobs, I learned to record back in the old days with mixing desks.

If you really want to use the computer, go with what Stray is saying. Don't get an mbox unless you want to use ProTools. If I were to do it, I'd go for a digi003 :) I use Shure mics for recording, a SM57 for the guitar and SM58 for vox.

[Fraeg]

Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it.   I think I will stick with Cakewalk for now and pick up a Lexicon Omega http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=6  for use along with my trusty Shure sm57.  My brother has  the lexicon omega and it is cheap and I already have used it a bit.

My brother gave me a Blue Snowball usb mic for Xmas.  Haven't really had time to play with it, but I like the idea.
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Snowball-Microphone-Bundle/dp/B001THR8K8

cheers

[stray]

Can't go wrong with the 57's 

[Miguel]

Don't listen to Sky: next thing he'll be telling you is that you can only record on reel-to-reel machines and you have to do your overdubs with a razor blade and acetate glue. 

In all seriousness, what do you want to spend on your interface?  I assume you need mic pre's?  How many mic's do you want to record simultaneously?

[Fraeg]

Don't listen to Sky: next thing he'll be telling you is that you can only record on reel-to-reel machines and you have to do your overdubs with a razor blade and acetate glue. 

In all seriousness, what do you want to spend on your interface?  I assume you need mic pre's?  How many mic's do you want to record simultaneously?

Well my drum set is in California and now that I am in an Apt. in new mexico I don't see needing that many mics any time soon.  I just bought the lexicon omega pro new for $160 it is what my brother uses and I have used it a bit.  For what I will be doing this should be plenty.   I will be recording guitar, and random screams and shouts which I will try and pass off for singing.  Once I have a house here, I will see about getting my drumset out here. In the meantime, unlike Sky, I have zero issues with using drum machines.  Godflesh and Ghengis Tron are two bands that come to mind that have made amazing music just using drum machines (Ghengis tron has recorded all their albums using Ableton live btw)

Ableton is having a huge sale until jan 15 http://www.ableton.com/nl495-able10-discounts
I thought about it for a bit and said f'it and bought the upgrade from Ableton lite to the Ableton 8 full suite which is normally has a fairly hefty price tag but with the reduced upgrade price was worth it for me.  My brother uses Ableton live and our *hope* is that this will make collabrating much easier given that we will be using the exact same software.  Ableton also has a new utility specifically for collaborating, basically an export feature that exports the midi, audio, samples etc all into a file that someone else using ableton can simply open up and begin working on without any fiddling.  So basically we can just bounce projects back and forth to each other on an ftp server.  I am leaving my comfort zone of Cakewalk Audio, but I think this will be worth it.

Next up for me is buying a drum pad and eventually a midi trigger.  Looking at:

Korg http://www.zzounds.com/item--KORPADKONTROL
Akai Akai Professional APC40 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/APC40/?gclid=CMOjgdvqmJ8CFQchDQodoxV6yQ

and dunno just need a cheap keyboard with mid out for triggers

[Sky]

Yeah, I've really got to get my kit set up in the basement. Hopefully it stays dry this spring, then I'll put in a small riser for it. Some day I hope to get a real kit, only my bass pedal and my two cymbals (crash/ride and high-hats, they're $$ ffs) are decent. Need new heads and a throne at the very least.

[Miguel]

Well my drum set is in California

For recording of the things you mentioned, I would forget the SM57 and SM58 and go for a pair of these:

Cascade Fat Head Ribbon Mic

$325 for a matched pair.  These are by far the best overhead mic's I have ever heard on drums (for the price), and they are wonderful on voice and guitar as well.

You could also go with a pair of X-M Omni's which I have heard are really good for the $$ as well, but I don't have personal experience with them as I do the Cascades.

57's make decent snare mics, but the drum sound is all about the room and the kit as a whole. 

[Fraeg]

it makes me sad just how much more money drumming seems to cost.   I was very lucky I had a good friend in undergrad who had a huge Tama Rockstar drum set, double bass, two floor toms, rack for cymbals the thing was huge. He got sick of the amount of time to set it up and break it down for gigs so basically he split it in half and sold me two toms, floor tom, bass, and some stands for a silly low price.  Already had a slingerland knockoff snare, HH, and some other hardware... so all in all I got a decent set for a steal.  But the cost to replace all the heads (which I really need to do) definately comes with some sticker shock when you compare it to a set of 6 dollar guitar strings. 

Just before I moved to NM I bought an Iron Cobra twin double bass peddle with dreams of heavy metal double bass madness    The reality of my double bass metal godhood was a bit more along the lines of    hmm there isn't an emiticon for "hey I suck"

[Fraeg]

Well my drum set is in California

For recording of the things you mentioned, I would forget the SM57 and SM58 and go for a pair of these:

Cascade Fat Head Ribbon Mic

$325 for a matched pair.  These are by far the best overhead mic's I have ever heard on drums (for the price), and they are wonderful on voice and guitar as well.

You could also go with a pair of X-M Omni's which I have heard are really good for the $$ as well, but I don't have personal experience with them as I do the Cascades.

57's make decent snare mics, but the drum sound is all about the room and the kit as a whole. 

Thanks for the feedback I will definately look into those once I get into a house and have my set with me.

[Sky]

it makes me sad just how much more money drumming seems to cost. 

When you're not a gigging musician, it's much tougher, because now I'm out of the loop for deals. When my stuff got robbed (some by a former band member  ), a couple local bassist kicked in with some of their b-line gear. I got an ampeg 8x10 for $100 and a crappy peavey mk3 head on top of a nice dean markley cab loaded with an evmb 400w (my speaker of choice in the day) for another $100. My current drum kit I got from a coworker about fifteen years ago (heh), paid $100 for the kit and broke the pedal a day later. I forget what I paid for the pedal, it's nothing special but cost me more than the kit. The heads on it are a joke, dented to fuck.

I did get a decent Tama cymbal stand from a hock shop about ten years ago, but haven't found a cymbal for it. That hock shop was the last of the true hock shops, run by the same old lady who could haggle better than a mexican open air market vendor, but you could find some real deals there (like the original BC Rich Bich I missed when I was first starting out). Now hock shops are mostly fences, national chains that shift merchandise out of the hot zone.

[Fraeg]

sounds like you got the same Frankenstein thing going that I do with my drums. 

Original Rich Bich? As in you didn't notice it was there in the store ?

There was an amazing store in San Francisco called Black Market Music that was all commission sales.  The owner was a bit sketchy, but you could find some amazing bargains there.  My brothers 60 something or another SG with a repaired neck (cracked headstock) came from there for something like $200, and a several of my cymbals came from there.   As you mention about hock shops.. there was definately some things there at prices low enough to raise eyebrows.   I believe that shop has gone the way of the Dodo