Guitar thread

[Selby]

The great majority of 80's recordings indulged in spaciousness too. Even thrash metal. And it kind of ruins it imo.

The 80's were horrible, yes.  And today is not much better.  But I cite Slayer's Reign In Blood album as the perfect example of what thrash metal should sound like - 2 guitar channels, 1 bass channel, mic'd drums, and vocals.  Nothing else, no fancy synths, no fancy vocal work, no phase shifting, etc.  And able to be perfectly reproduced live if so chosen to.  That album could have been recorded yesterday or 10 years or 20 years ago - it doesn't have a stigma of the recording timeframe imprinted on it giving it a dated sound.  Other bands require multiple guitarists or special electronics to get their sound, I prefer the whole ethos that if it can't be reproduced on stage without multiple instrument changes or having many backing tracks, you've got a problem.  Not that the song is necessarily bad or unworthy, just that something has changed.  Queen ran into this problem with Bohemian Rhapsody and most of their following albums, but it was still great music.  Just not something you could reproduce live easily without multiple recordings playing.  I just find it hard to get into music that has several synth tracks, a drum machine, multiple vocal tracks, all in addition to what is going on with the regular band on-stage.

[Grimwell]

I favor bands who can walk in and lay it down in one recording over bands who noodle; but at heart I prefer a nugget of wisdom that Jake E. Lee gave up in a magazine interview post-Ozzy.

He basically said that the studio and live experiences are different and that when he's in the studio his focus is on making a good record and he will willingly take advantage of things the studio offers (him being able to play more than one guitar track, etc.). When he's live he does not try to recreate the studio. He can't. He instead focuses on doing a good live show.

Jake may not have been the greatest guitarist in the world (I like him and that's good enough for me), but I liked how that made sense. The studio is not a stage, don't be confused. Use each for different purposes.

I prefer the sound of a good band on stage to the studio any day, but I don't expect the stage of the studio.

[Sky]

http://www.stewmac.com/

[stray]

Yes?


That Guitar Player Repair Guide was written by the guy who's the brains behind that operation, I believe.

[Raph]

That's where the abalone dot on my Melody Maker came from. :) Only had one missing...

That Digitech pedal arrived today but am still at work but will try it shortly 

[Raph]

And... I got to try it, but barely. :P I also upgraded ACID, and spent like four hours dealing with all that did to my setup. It came with Garritan Aria, and now I need a small controller with a mod wheel to use that correctly. And it came with that Native Guitar Combos thing, which I can't get to send me the stupid email for the reg process, which is nuts: register. Get code. Enter code. Get sent image with encrypted crap in it. Drag image onto reg tool. Save image forever bc if you lose it and need to reinstall you are screwed.

What with all that (plus the random trip-to-take-kids-to-Star-Trek-exhibit) I haven't actually gotten to try using any of the new toys seriously. My kids have had fun with it though. :P

[stray]

My dry periods in playing coincide with the shittyness of how my guitars sound.

It's a weird phenomenon. Everything sounds "tinny". Like shit. Therefore I can't play.

Looking forward to some clips Raph

[Sky]

I've been trying to find a good strap for so long. There is so much garbage out there! I'm still using a free crapstrap (nylon and fake leather 2", the ubiquitous "I'll even throw in a strap!" type strap) that I've had for fifteen years. I've got a decent black leather strap for my bass, but I'd like to have one better suited to guitar height.

I think I've found a good candidate, if I can find them for sale somewhere.

http://www.levysleathers.com/product;cat,127;item,490;Urban-Prints-MN3P

They've also got some cool stuff over here:

http://www.eldoradostraps.com/products-over.htm

And I've thought about emailing Jodi down in NYC to see if she'll make me a custom version of the autographed Buddy Guy strap I have, because it rocks and I don't want to fuck up the autograph on it (and it's polka-dotted...).

[Nebu]

I've been using something like one of THESE for years.  $20 or so and they last forever.  Add strap locks and you're good to go.

[stray]

I use a old timey Fender strap.. Strap locks as well. Kinda only look good on Fenders though.

I've got a plain black Kepur strap as well -- thing is tough as hell.. and you don't need straplocks. Just not very comfortable though.

[Miguel]

A question to any and all bass players out there.

i have been playing for quite a long time (~15 years) off and on.  I found I quickly progressed in the first few years, however I have languished at the same level for about the past 10 or so.

I'm wondering about techniques to play faster.  I've always had it in the back of my mind that in order to get a good tone, one must do a single finger pluck per note.  However guitar players never do this:  at certain speeds, they can single pick, but at some point, they begin picking on the up and down stroke.  At even faster speeds, they pick every other note, and hammer-on consecutive notes.  At very fast speeds, they may only be picking every other note.  In fact, when you want insane speed players like John Petrucci play, their right hand is relatively quiet, and the left hand is soundings notes by hammer-on and pull-off techniques.  I think guitar players can get away with this and get good tone.

However I have found on bass, unless you give a single right-hand finger pluck (for us right handed players) per note it just doesn't 'sound' right.  However when I see Youtube videos of other players doing very fast licks (say, 120bpm at 16th note speed), that many of them are only picking every other note.  I'm wondering if it's a matter of needed to hammer-on with the fingers of the left hand much harder than I have ever tried before.  I spent a lot of time trying to get three and four finger plucking technique down on my right hand to gain speed, but it's pretty difficult to single pluck every note at those speeds, especially when switching from string to string.  I see a lot of these players getting very fast speeds without using three or four fingers.

Am I on the right track here?  I thought that maybe I would try some scales where instead of plucking every note with three fingers. I plucked every other note (1,3,5, etc)  then did hammer on's to the even notes.

Check out this Youtube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdT8g-tNvXU

At around the 30 second timeframe there are some 32nd note patterns.  He's clearly not single picking at those speeds, but it *sounds* like he is.

[Nebu]

When I need to play fast with my fingers, I use the back and forth motion on both fingers.  It makes use of each finger like a pick and allows you to get 4 notes from a 2 note movement.  When I was practicing a lot, I used to practice using one finger at a time like a pick (front back front back of the finger like a pick) and then do two fingers as a 1234 pattern.  I think Vic Wooten may have some youtube footage doing this kind of thing. 

[K9]

[Selby]

I've been trying to find a good strap for so long.

This is funny.  The strap on my guitar has a pink, violet, and turqoise pattern that reminds me of the old arcade game Space Invaders.  It's warped but is decently strong and feels good compared to the cheap crap you can buy now (probably what they thought about it when it was new).  It came for free with a bass guitar that I got out of a pawn shop, which I no longer have.  It's hysterical that I paid $50 for the guitar that turned out to be warped and broken after a month of playing it, yet I still kept the strap.  My $50 strap!  Too bad it doesn't match the red and black zebra striping on the guitar, although it is a good conversation piece when people comment on my shitty looking gear that is plugged into a higher dollar amp.

[stray]

I really want something gaudy like that, with a Van Halen-esque Kramer to go with it.

[Sky]

I have been playing for quite a long time (~15 years) off and on.  I found I quickly progressed in the first few years, however I have languished at the same level for about the past 10 or so.

I found there is a physical wall, where you can hit the limit of what your genetics have given you. I've got pretty stubby fingers, but practicing for over eight hours a day when I was in school pushed them to the limits of what they could do. I was just doing some insanely fast stuff, wish we had been recording more back then. Hell, wish my singer hadn't given away most of the recordings we did make...

Anyway, I used to watch Steve Harris play and he drove me nuts, I could never figure out how he played so fast. For our fastest thrash metal songs, I usually needed a pick, because they were physically impossible to play with fingers. I used to write a lot of triplet-based stuff because I had a great three-finger triplet (think The Trooper) that I actually stole from my singer, who was the world's worst guitarist. He played "fingerstyle" because he hated the pick, and he had this weird three finger strum thing he did. When I picked up the bass, I remembered that and it became the basis of my triplet style. I also used a ton of syncopation because A) it's awesome and B) easier to play fast than a straight-note passage.

So for right hand, I mostly used alternating index and middle, bolstered by the triplet stroke above and the four-finger chorded fingerstyle that's basically a rip of classical guitar style. We only had two songs that were too fast to play with my fingers.

One reason I used to practice Anesthesia so much was that it had a bunch of different styles all jumbled up in one piece, a good warmup. There are some of my triplets using three fingers (ima), some hammering and pulling, some chorded fingerstyle (pima), some fast passages and arpeggios. I'll link my crappy youtube version, though it was much better in the day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6KMVEUDt0

[Nebu]

Great stuff Sky.  I remember watching that the first time you posted it.  It has a great combination of styles and techniques.  If you consider that rusty, you must have been one hell of a player in your prime. 

I'd love to see a full length shot of your bass front and back (or a link to a manufacturer site).  Looks like an interesting body shape. 

[Raph]

I think of this as plateaus. And every few years, I break through one and my perception of the instrument changes. I think some of it isn't just practice, but also stepping away from habits. For me, alternate tunings didn't just teach me alternate tunings -- it opened up new techniques which went back over to standard playing. Mandolin opened up different lead playing on guitar. Learning a bunch of cover songs opened up new rhythmic stuff.  And so on.

[Sky]

Thanks, Nebs. It's beyond rusty :P I only pick up the bass a couple times a year, my right hand is crap and my left is a lot weaker. The only pic I have of the bass right now is from this batch I did a year or two ago: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/228/512239226_7348baefa7_o.jpg and you still can't see it very good in that shot. I'll get some of it for you to check out.

It's always been a mystery to me. I bought it in the ESP shop on Sunset, which wikipedia says didn't exist until 1993 (I bought it in 1991 iirc). The guy had it in the back of the shop and assembled it for me, told me they weren't US models and that it was custom, the nameplate is Edwards. I'm still not sure on the custom part, but wiki says they were made for a japanese market and slightly higher quality than the US ESPs were. Dunno, I just know it has an amazing neck and crappy pickups. I've never seen one like it and actually can't find a pic on the intarweb, either.

Raph, there are plateaus and then there are genetic physical limitations. There is only so much you can push your muscular and skeletal systems, and I found it after over a year of playing at peak performance. I got /better/ as I learned more things and ways to play, but there was a hard physical limit on how fast I could alternate fingerpick the bass. Most people don't have the time to find that limitation, so I consider myself lucky.

[Sky]

I'm in such a rut lately. Anyone doing anything interesting or inspiring?

I haven't made a single recording since I moved into the house. Scratch that, I did make one awful early rock song, but it was just an idea jot, and that was months ago. Need to work on repertoire, spinning my wheels with theory practice. Blah, I hate these periods. Luckily I've been doing this long enough that I know there's some great inspiration just around the corner to get me going again. Just hope it gets here soon.

Talking with some blues bassists on another forum, I might ride out the rut with some bass playing to change things up. I got everyone pissed off because I railed against the idea of bass as merely a support instrument. It's actually why I don't play blues bass (and hardly know how), because most of the good guitarist/singers in the area fall under the small-minded/egotistical idealism that the band is there to support them, whereas coming from the background of my band where everyone was an equal it just seems like some odd form of musical slavery..."Yes, massah, I jes' sit back here in da back o da stage and play reeeal nice, massah!"

[Raph]

I wrote a GREAT song this past weekend. :) It has been stuck in my head for days, and stuck in my daughter's head too, she's been wandering around singing it. It's just bouncy happy singalongy infectious, if you know what I mean. And it works great with that harmonizing pedal thing I got (which I am starting to get the hang of). I hope to record it this weekend.

Lyrics:

Got some sand in my pocket and a wink in my eye
Got skipping hopping tripping and a sun in the sky
Got a whistling a tune and an orchestra mine
And the whole world’s humming like the fruit on the vine
There’s some knowing and some growing that’s about to go by
With green grass showing all its pointy pride

Chorus-
It's the last song going on its own way
It's all our dreams sailing on the bay
It's the way we hold hands on a summer's day
It's the way, it's the way, it's the way it's the way

If the sun shines through your hair I might go blind
If the laughter jingle jangles all the sparks in your eyes
With the sidewalk a cracking and the gardens alongside
The street crossing zebra with the stripes on its hide
The clouds are blue the sky is white, we’re all upside down
And the dizzy whizzy world is dancing us around, yeah yeah yeah

bridge -
But don’t don’t, don’t don’t, do-do-do don’t
Say no, no, no, no, no, no, you won’t
It’s the way , it’s a yes, it’s the way, yes, say hey hey hey yeah

Got some sand in my pocket and what is it for?
There’s a whole beach full of seashells and a whole lot more
Kites and parades and an acrobat
A big brass band bouncing, how about that
Come on let’s put our hands together now
I promise not to pull your hair if you kiss me

It’s the last song last dance first kiss first chance
Pillows dreaming birds a cheering tap tap tap heels clack hear that
It’s the way, it’s the way, it’s the way, it’s the way
And the whole world’s humming like the fruit on the vine
There’s some knowing and some growing that’s about to go by

[stray]

Probably old to you guys, but I've never seen this Stanley Jordan Stairway rendition before. I don't give a fuck about his jazzy tone. That's pretty much beyond sick. Not even sick. He's accompanying himself. Lol

[Raph]

I always thought he added too many notes. :) But he's a monster player. This two guitar tapping stunt is... nuts.

Have you heard stuff on the Chapman Stick? It's all tapping, and played almost pianistically. I've got one bob Culbertson album... here's a version of Little Wing he did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcZ7Deu0V9A

[stray]

Pretty cool. He does take the blues out of a bit, but it's a great tune in it's own right.


These kind of guys humble me to the point that I think my playing isn't THAT much better than playing Guitar Hero. I need to start merely referring to myself as a "songwriter". I am NOT a guitar player or instrumentalist in any real sense.

[Trippy]

Probably old to you guys, but I've never seen this Stanley Jordan Stairway rendition before. I don't give a fuck about his jazzy tone. That's pretty much beyond sick. Not even sick. He's accompanying himself. Lol

He was one of the "speakers" at one of my high school's career days

[Trippy]

I always thought he added too many notes. :) But he's a monster player. This two guitar tapping stunt is... nuts.

Have you heard stuff on the Chapman Stick? It's all tapping, and played almost pianistically. I've got one bob Culbertson album... here's a version of Little Wing he did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcZ7Deu0V9A

Yeah I saw him play somewhere a while back which I can't even remember and ended up getting his Cafe San Francisco album.

[stray]

Just to post another guy I discovered recently, who humbles me. Jimmy Rosenberg.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzkQt4QAhHk


These days (almost 30 now), he's apparently in and out of jail, but it's pretty badass that's he been so good since so young. Playing Django as a kid is a helluva lot more cool than playing Crazy Train, if you ask me. Apparently, his brothers are pretty well known Gypsy Swing guys, but Jimmy is the one known for more improvising.

[stray]

To get off the subject of geniuses, but to stick with gypsies, this guy rocks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjRKsoMM2QI

All of them rock actually, but the second guy, I mean. His name is Titi Demeter. Seems to play a little slower than most of these type of guitarists, but he sounds better (imo).

[Sky]

I saw Jordan waaay back in the 80s when I was a kid, he was on Letterman or something. Blew my widdle mind, but was one of my early enlightenment moments where I saw that the guitar (or bass) are instruments to be played in whatever way makes them sound good. I even saw Limp Bizkit a few times because their guitarist is very talented in the Jordan style of double-tapping, especially their first couple of tours.

That Chapman Stick is cool, and the guy playing it is pretty talented. But I think he overplays it and kinda kills the mood of the piece. Also kinda stretches out too far trying to play fast passages and screwed up a couple times. My playing is a constant struggle to not overplay :)

[stray]

Yeah, it's pretty silly when people start making up rules. There were comments in that vid like "tapping and hammer ons are just for fill-ins, not a whole song. This is just masturbatory!" I hate - hate in the truest sense of the word - anyone who talks like that. About any subject really. There's personal taste, and then there are rules you try to make for everybody. You should probably get punched for the latter. Hell, I'm pretty sure the guitar's history wouldn't exist if it wasn't for rule breaking. And rules might be the very thing holding other instruments back from being as popular.

[Trippy]

Tommy Emmanuel is another guitarist with an "unorthodox" style, using his guitar as a percussive instrument in many of his songs (he's also a drummer):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZzUCuCosnE&NR=1

[Amarr HM]

Tommy Emmanuel is another guitarist with an "unorthodox" style, using his guitar as a percussive instrument in many of his songs (he's also a drummer):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZzUCuCosnE&NR=1

I love his version of "Somewhere over the rainbow", the beginning reminds me of Zelda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZNJf-h7F8s awesome guitar playing though.

I went to see this guy a few years ago his intermittent percussion while playing was unreal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DH41Vnkq44, here's some of his music philosophy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8.

[stray]

His soloing style is a little too egg heady for me, but I love the philosophy, and subject matter he's interested in.


[edit] On that note, I really - really like musicians who are in touch with the "blues-y" side of music (in any particular culture), but keep the hooks alive, and not get too technical. Who can make it popular music, and not experimental. I am blown away by how many great musicians there are out there -- hell, on youtube particularly -- but sometimes they get a bit.. indulgent.. is the word, I guess. Be they blues, jazz, renaissance types, cajun, bluegrass, etc.. Less is more sometimes.

[Selby]

There were comments in that vid like "tapping and hammer ons are just for fill-ins, not a whole song. This is just masturbatory!" I hate - hate in the truest sense of the word - anyone who talks like that.

I totally agree.  I can understand the sentiment, high technical skill isn't going to save a boring song, but at the same time adding extra embelishments to a good song can really make a great song.  These are the same type of people who think that dropping to D and playing power chords with 1 finger is all you ever need to do to make a good song.

[stray]

I guess... it's just all about balance. I mean, yeah, it's possible to get "masturbatory", but using a tapping technique doesn't necessarily mean that. No more than using slide through a whole song is masturbatory. Although I guess you can get masturbatory in how you express it all. But that applies to regular fretting too.

Like I said above, my own particular tastes swing towards hooks, so I do prefer things a bit more sparse -- but I believe you can express great skill through that too. Most of the great "guitar gods" did just that.