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Author Topic: Guitar thread  (Read 632505 times)
Selby
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Reply #630 on: October 28, 2007, 03:33:58 PM

If you ARE really good at controlling the pressure of your fingers you can use this to your advantage, look at Morbid Angel... that tone they have comes strait from very lite gauge strings on a very down tuned guitar.
Trey is one hell of a guitar player in some of their work.  God of Emptiness is one of my favorite songs where he shines (in addition to all of their first 2 albums).

I'm a fan of 0.010 gauge strings.  Anything thinner and I feel like it's too thin for my hand to easily control and thicker I end up fighting the strings more than I care to.
Sky
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Reply #631 on: October 29, 2007, 12:16:23 PM

Funny this comes up. I've been playing a bit more lately, especially focusing on singing and playing simultaneously (zomgsuck). And last night I was thinking about bumping up the gauge on my SG and fiddling with the gauges on my Open G-tuned slide guitar. I'm using GHS .01s on my SG, but after playing the Baby Taylor so much recently, they feel very jangly and imprecise. I'm going to grab .11s next time and keep tweaking it. I might mix and match, keeping .01s on the high strings and going heavier on the low strings. I have a very heavy hand for palm muting and I like to have a thicker string for that, also probably a bass playing thing.

Actually I was planning out an instrument that was between guitar and bass, not like a baritone guitar but more of a true hybrid. The low strings of the guitar over the high strings of the bass, with string spacing maybe a bit tighter than a six-string bass...anyway. My brain is crapping out stuff like this constantly, my notebook is fun. On the other page from the guitarbass design is a custom parquet floor design...

Back in the band days, we used to use .09s or .08s. Our guitarist loved them, but I would've switched to heavier strings if I hadn't taken over bass duties.

Strings contribute a HUGE amount to tone, but with metal bands, it might not be as obvious because the signal has been utterly mutilated by the time it comes out the speaker :) I really like thicker strings, I feel much more in control and the sound is far less jangly (and as mentioned, you don't have the problem of sharping out by simply fretting a note!). I also use a fairly ridiculously thick pick (1.5mm), so that's a factor.

What amazes me is I never really break strings. Or change them. This thought occurred to me last night while I was playing really hard on some old Muddy Waters riffs, beating the shit out of the .01s on the SG with the slab of plastic I call a pick. I wear down the tips on the 1.5mm picks, too, eventually I have to retire them because they're too rounded off.

Practicing on an acoustic is so great for hand strength.
stray
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Reply #632 on: October 29, 2007, 12:59:51 PM

Here's at least one guy who wouldn't have sounded right with little strings.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 01:02:12 PM by Stray »
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Reply #633 on: October 29, 2007, 06:20:07 PM

Strings absolutely do affect tone. :P Jangliness, sustain, intonation...

I use .013's on my acoustic. That's a Medium, not a Heavy. I think I have .011's on the electric and on the Baby Taylor.

Supposedly SRV used heavy strings on his electric.

Posted a new tune yesterday, btw. http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/10/28/the-sunday-song-up-near-witch-creek/

stray
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Reply #634 on: October 29, 2007, 07:03:19 PM

.013's would be medium on acoustic, yes, but electric, that's pretty bulky.

SRV used .013 to .058, similar to a lot of jazz guitarists actually -- but as we all know, he played much more maniacally than any of those guys. Supposedly, he'd play till they were downright bloody and skinned, and if the set wasn't finished, he'd apply super glue on his wounded fingertips to play some more.
Sky
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Reply #635 on: October 30, 2007, 09:00:20 AM

The SRV superglue thing was about his nails pulling away from the nailbeds from bending those heavier strings. That's one reason Albert King was such a monster bender, besides having the strong hands you need, he was playing upside down so his high string bends went toward the floor, saving his nailbeds a lot of torture.

I stop playing when the pain gets to be too much, but when gigging, I have played until I'm a bloody mess several times. Mostly on bass, though. And I don't really feel it until the gig is over and I realize I've bled all over everything.

I was going to post a rambly five-minute piece I did last night, but it was way too disjointed and I actually went out of key of a measure...twice! It was a cool jam, though, hopefully I can get into the zone again and record a better version. Got in the new Guitar World and they had a piece on Coheed and Cambria, with a nice chord progression, I forget exactly but something like Dm - F - Cadd9 - B5. I turned up a nice high-gain and started wailing it. I should just record /everything/ because I had a wicked version, tried to record it and couldn't quite recapture it. There was a whole section in the middle where I threw in a Dm - C reggae rhythym, it also had some nice melodic passages and some shred, some rock licks, a nice hodgepodge of stuff.

Then when I went to record it, I blew the Cadd9-B5 progression (twice!), dropped the reggae groove (which imo ruined the piece). But on the playback I was fingerpicking and then reggae strumming the Baby and it was really, really slick. But I had just re-arranged my recording setup and hadn't thought through recording the acoustic and it was waay too late last night to mess around with it (go Favre!).

Definitely the seeds of a cool song in there, though. You may have noticed the trend of me not polishing or even really finishing anything.

edit: Raph, nice piece. Poignant and a nice jam to boot. Vocals a bit out front, trying to hear more of the slidework ;) Then again, I'm the opposite, I tend to bury my vocals because I hate my voice. This verse in particular was creepy as hell:

So hush my baby girl, don’t cry but don’t you dare go sleep
And son, you’ll need to be brave and decide which toys to keep
Your momma’s got some pieces of our lives packed and no its not enough
But we’ll all stay together until the sun comes up
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 09:05:17 AM by Sky »
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Reply #636 on: October 30, 2007, 05:32:26 PM

Glad you dug it. I barely mixed it, really... wasn't til I had rendered to mp3 that I realized the vocals were too foregrounded and the bass was mostly inaudible. The bass needs redone anyhow.

The slide work is... noodley at best. There's only like a five note figure and a 2 note figure there, everything else is just whatever came to mind really briefly. Mostly just wanted the atmosphere.

Open D, so if you want to mess with it, the acoustic parts are all played fretting just the three low strings mostly. I think I fingered it this way:

Verses:
222000
222000
020020
222000

little riff there sometimes is 000000 hammer on to 222000, then to 5 then back to 000000 and hammer on to 222000 again.

Chorus:
555000
555000
777000
222000

Bridge ("So hush..." verses)
000000 to 222000 midway thru the line
000000 to 222000 midway thru the line
032000 to 020000
777000 to 222000

I could put up a version w/o the slide and you could layer in your own part. :) Plus, there's a gap there for a brief solo that I kinda forgot to play.
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Reply #637 on: November 11, 2007, 12:00:36 PM

Nebu
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Reply #638 on: November 20, 2007, 12:08:48 PM

I've been building my own speaker cabinets for years but I just don't have the time anymore.  I was wondering if you guys could recommend a solid value (bang-for-buck) in a 2x10" speaker cabinet.  I've been playing my bass a lot more lately and am looking for a tight practice enclosure.  I have been playing through a VERY old 2x15, but it's really loose on the low end, particularly at practice volumes as well as being a pain to move around.  I'm planning to head to Denver this weekend, so any input before then would be appreciated. 

Oh... I play a 70's Fender Jazz with roundwound strings through a clean Ampeg amp (like 450 watt @ 4 ohm) if that helps. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sky
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Reply #639 on: November 20, 2007, 12:24:07 PM

I have the ubiquitous ampeg 8x10 cab, with one speaker gone (got it that way for $100, cover is also shot, but who cares). I wish I had your amp to drive it, I'm using a shitty (shitty shitty) Peavey MkIII head, I think it's 125W. Combine that with the crappy passive pickups on my old bass and it leaves a lot of room for improvement. I used to play through a Peavey 2x15 loaded with 400W EV full-range 15"s, but as you mention, that's better for loud thumping than practicing, and it's heavy as hell (motherfucker stole my shipping money AND cabinet...another story).

So I dunno. Maybe an ampeg 2x10 cab? Maybe a crap pawn shop 2x10 cab and buy some nice 10"s for it?

My advice after a few cross-country moves is to buy it after you move :)
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Reply #640 on: November 20, 2007, 12:33:05 PM

So I dunno. Maybe an ampeg 2x10 cab? Maybe a crap pawn shop 2x10 cab and buy some nice 10"s for it?

Good ideas.  Ampeg makes a 4x10, but I'm not sure they make a 2x10.  The 4x10 is about $450 new which isn't bad, so that's an option.  I also found a Galien Kruger 2x10 for about $200.  I could just grab that and if the speakers suck, replace them.  Behrenger, Hartke, and SWR all scare me and I'm nto willing to shell out the cash for Eden.  Mayeb I'll have to look at a Peavey cap and re-load.  Decisions, decisions.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #641 on: November 20, 2007, 11:34:01 PM

I pulled my guitar out today and my fingers are sore as hell. 

Got it in tune and belted out some "Horse with no name" I felt pretty impressed with myself.

Selby
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Reply #642 on: November 21, 2007, 05:36:46 AM

I pulled my guitar out today and my fingers are sore as hell.
I decided to break mine out for the first time in about 2 months.  I gave myself a blister after about 2 hours.
Sky
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Reply #643 on: November 21, 2007, 07:07:23 AM

I'm addicted to my Baby Taylor. It's so resonant and rich. I have to force myself to pick up the SG (which I still love playing!).

It's actually a really good thing. My lead powers are slipping a bit, but I've been making decent headway into acoustic blues, one of my goals. Build the fundamentals that will make my more advanced solo stuff so much better. I stick to a few basic chords for now (E/E7 - A/A7 - B7) and work on adding multiple lines. My goal is to be able to juggle three independent lines - lead, rhythm and bass. I've even been picking up the bass to solidfy the bass portions by playing it a few times on bass to make sure it feels like a real bass line. Also working on bringing in interesting rhythmic elements.

I'm doing horrible :) but I'm making some progress, which is always a good thing! I wish I both was not a perfectionist or so resistant to doing multiple takes. I lose the feeling for a tune really quick without a band, I guess.
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Reply #644 on: November 24, 2007, 07:33:11 PM

Time for my biannual mention of my cousin's stuff:
http://myspace.com/travisaustinmusic

He got a myspace.  Seduction by A Kiss to Betray rocks pretty goddamn hard.  Needs to work on his singing, but I'll give him a break since he plays every fucking instrument in those things- keyboards, drums, guitar, and whatever the hell else he's using.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #645 on: November 24, 2007, 07:42:31 PM

I hope this doesn't come off shitty, cuz I like it. Not my kind of rock song really, but Seduction sounds like the score of a Castlevania boss battle or something. The boards and static-y percussion do the trick.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 07:49:01 PM by Stray »
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Reply #646 on: November 24, 2007, 09:50:13 PM

I posted a non-sucky performance of the song I posted last time. :P About as far from rock as you can get, of course.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2007/11/23/a-better-version-of-october/
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Reply #647 on: November 24, 2007, 10:02:42 PM

I like the new recording setup. I think it adds a warm sound to the lower notes on the guitar, giving sort of a acoustic recording quality to the piece. That is, if it wasn't your mic placement, it's your tuning, or something. Anyway, whatever it was, I liked the way it was recorded and it sounded better than your previous October. A comparison came out of lieft field randomly, of the Eric Clapton's unplugged Signe that I have. I pulled it up, and with only a slight hint of I guess you'd call it tinniness on the higher notes (maybe from that bouceback you mentioned) the recording sounds similar to my untrained ears :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2007, 10:05:36 PM by bhodi »
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Reply #648 on: November 24, 2007, 10:13:01 PM

Forgot to mention the latest addition to my weirdo collection of acoustic instruments... a Venezuelan cuatro. Sent my my uncle who found it in a flea market in NYC, badly beaten up, with some cracks on the side. Still has a nice voice though. Clearly a low-end folk instrument, it has a hole in the headstock so it can be hung on a nail. He swears it's an authentic one from Venezuela based on the much faded maker's mark on the inside.

One broken gear on a tuning peg, one missing string. Plus cracks on the sides. Plus old cracks apparently repaired by smearing wood glue all over it. He paid $1. I wonder how much I will pay to have it fixed up. Sigh.
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Reply #649 on: November 24, 2007, 10:16:03 PM

I like the new recording setup. I think it adds a warm sound to the lower notes on the guitar, giving sort of a acoustic recording quality to the piece. That is, if it wasn't your mic placement, it's your tuning, or something. Anyway, whatever it was, I liked the way it was recorded and it sounded better than your previous October. A comparison came out of lieft field randomly, of the Eric Clapton's unplugged Signe that I have. I pulled it up, and with only a slight hint of I guess you'd call it tinniness on the higher notes (maybe from that bouceback you mentioned) the recording sounds similar to my untrained ears :)

The previous October was a bit of a train wreck. I mean, not just the recording, I think the performance was a trainwreck too. This one is better, tho not great.

I would hope it has an acoustic recording quality... it basically is! There's no amplification there at all, just a little bit of reverb after the fact in the mix, along with some volume. I ended up panning the whole mix to the right a fair amount because one of the mics came in so much stronger than the other.

Some of the warmth comes from the tuning. It's in C G C G Bb C.
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Reply #650 on: November 25, 2007, 12:00:17 AM

I hope this doesn't come off shitty, cuz I like it. Not my kind of rock song really, but Seduction sounds like the score of a Castlevania boss battle or something. The boards and static-y percussion do the trick.

You're right, it does kind of sound like that.  I wouldn't take it as an insult, though- boss battle music rules.

That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell. -Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
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Reply #651 on: November 25, 2007, 11:25:16 AM

Furiously
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Reply #652 on: December 06, 2007, 10:30:09 AM

Kinda a fun site for someone who just wants to pick up a guitar and play a song.

http://www.actiontab.com/view_actiontab.html?id=109

Sky
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Reply #653 on: December 06, 2007, 12:33:37 PM

Eeet's backwards! I guess it's good if you're used to learning stuff from watching someone else play, but it would seem to make more sense if they had the standard training POV of looking down at the fretboard from playing position. Nifty, though.

Kinda gives me GH3 flashbacks, though. I'll stick with a piece of paper :P

Not much guitar news in my neck of the woods, just doing some woodshedding in case I play next week with some friends. Opened my mouth at the last blues gig and might get called up to sit in on Thrill Is Gone. I'm irrationally nervous about it, or maybe rationally...it would be my first blues jam with anyone, and in front of an audience of the best blues musicians in the county. Everyone turns out for the December jam because it's a charity jam session. No pressure! undecided Maybe stay in and comp a few 7th chords behind some other stuff and hide during solo shoutouts.

The guy I'll play with has an absolutely amazing amp, a Vero 20th Century Ltd. He plays a Gibson semi-hollow and his tone has never quite been there, but he is now easily the reigning tone monster of the jam session. While I'm still considering a little Fender tube jobby for starters (and going shopping tomorrow...), I'm sorely tempted by the Vero. If only they weren't $$$...
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Reply #654 on: December 06, 2007, 05:58:35 PM

I hate to say this, but after learning more and more of your tastes, I don't think you'll be happy with a Fender in the end. It's a killer tone, don't get me wrong (and a Gibson with a Fender amp is perfect for BB stuff like Thrill is Gone), but the overdrive characteristics are not in the same area as typical rock. If you have any inclination at all to seriously crank up, then you might be disappointed. Fenders are good for lots of clean, glistening tones (and a lot of headroom to not distort) or those right on the edge, slightly overdriven leads like you'd hear from old blues cats. When you crank them up, they're really muddy, punk like, and garage-y...Especially anything of the Bassman variety (vibrolux, vibro king, hot rod, most blondes and tweeds). I'm in love with Fender stuff myself, but even I feel limited sometimes.


ANYWAYS... Have you played it with Marshalls much? You'll find plenty of blues tone out of one, and have more options for harder stuff too. I mean... Look at Cream era Clapton, Townsend, Angus, and Tony Iommi -- all roughly the same amp and guitar, but a huge difference.

[edit] Or hell, get both! Get a modeller. It certainly makes recording easier, I'll say that much. Maintaining a tube amp can be pricey and a bitch too. And they do sound pretty accurate these days, down to the feedback characteristics. I have a little trusty Valvetronix for messing around with, but the Cyber Twin is cool too.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 06:18:55 PM by Stray »
Sky
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Reply #655 on: December 07, 2007, 07:34:43 AM

I've got a modeler and I fuckin' hate it (Boss GT-6), too much stuff to dick around with.  I play pretty clean these days, I just want an amp that will break up nicely without deafening me. Something that will be good for cutting through the mix at a small club, which is where I'd be using it most of the time. I'm talking combos, a place I think Marshall loses something in the translation. Would I love to have a 100W Marshall stack? Hell yeah, but I'm not in my 20s anymore, I won't ever have a need for that kind of power. I've done the full stack thing, I used to play through a Laney stack when I was doing thrash metal in the 80s.

I'm just going by what I'm seeing people with killer tone playing, and it's been 95% Fender amps, no Marshalls at all (unless you consider the metal guys like Zakk). Irl and on tv. The only amp I've heard whip the shit out of a Fender has been that Vero, and that was the most amazing tone I think I've ever heard, I just can't afford one right now. We'll be over in the city with a decent guitar store today, so I'm hoping they still have my SG in stock (or at least something with the same pickups) so I can try a few things out.

If I ever do need metal crunch, I'll just route through a proco rat pedal. Those used to define my tone back in the day, monster crunch, palm-muted riffs of death.

One thing I need to learn more about is the variety of tubes and how to bias them. Guys have been saying that is important even with a good amp.
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Reply #656 on: December 07, 2007, 07:46:54 AM

One thing I need to learn more about is the variety of tubes and how to bias them. Guys have been saying that is important even with a good amp.

The tubes you choose can define the sound every bit as much as the amp itself.  There are some good intarweb resources for it and you'd be amazed at some of the tubes you can find on eBay.  I recently bought a set of 1950's GE tubes for a preamp that I have and they were surprisingly both available and inexpensive. 

The Tube Store has useful reviews and info on the front page.  <see the lower right corner "Answers and info">


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sky
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Reply #657 on: December 07, 2007, 08:51:32 AM

Great! Thanks!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
stray
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Reply #658 on: December 07, 2007, 02:53:16 PM

Sky, the GT-6 is not in the same league as a Cyber Twin or Valvetronix amp. There's a lot more electronic wizardry going in there (mainly in the emulating of powerstages... in this respect, the Vox amps are the best, because they do at least use some real tubes).



Anyways, I'm not knocking Fender amps in any way. Most of my amps have been Fenders. The last one was by far the greatest Fender amp ever made (the hand wired Vibro-King). If you can find one of those for cheap, you'd be lucky. But as far as versatility goes, that they are not. It will dictate your sound a lot... So I'm just saying. It's a sound I happen to like, but I've run across many players who couldn't get used to it.


If you want a combo that can really cut through a mix though, nothing beats a Vox AC. The key to cutting through is High-Mids -- that's pretty much the natural voicing of a guitar, where other instruments don't invade in on the sound spectrum. It's strange, since most guitar players (when by themselves), cut out the mids and boost bass and treb, but in a band situation, mids will get you heard the best. The funny thing is, Vox amps don't even have a Mid knob. Just treble and bass. The mid level is hard wired into the amp. Check one out though!

Fuck biasing and getting into the nitty gritty parts of these things. I'm no electrician. Many a professional have been shocked to death by that shit, and my amateur ass isn't going to try. The downside is, it's usually $100 bucks just to get someone to do it.

Those GE tubes are only cheap because they're preamp tubes. All preamp tubes are dirt cheap. It's starts to hurt when your amp (like that VK, for example), has 6-8 power tubes in it (among others). Especially if you're going for new old stock shit -- you could easily break $200-300 just on fucking tubes.
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Reply #659 on: December 07, 2007, 03:09:47 PM

Sky
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Reply #660 on: December 10, 2007, 11:51:57 AM

Dicked around with the multitrack saturday, pooped out a draft version of The Thrill is Gone.

The fiancee is always making fun of my 'usual disclaimers', but I can't help myself. Firstly, it's a draft :) Just throwing down ideas, I have another one that's more of a Hendrix vibe on guitar. Secondly, I hate my voice, I just haven't found a comfort zone. For some reason this song is exceptionally challenging for me, I'm not sure why. It's not quite spoken, not quite sung, BB has a very odd thing going imo.

That said, technically there are a few issues, I blew the change just before the first solo, then the first couple solo lines were subpar because I was distracted by that. I'm firmly an improv player, with all the negatives that go with it! Now, I know I can go back and fix that little bit, but my studio skills are so rusty I wasn't getting it right in the limited time I spent messing with it, and I totally ruled out punching in/out destructively! One of the things on my list, get better with my multitracker.

The bass line is sloppy, I threw it on as an afterthought because I was inspired by a Janis Joplin documentary and I haven't played bass in a while. As always, first take, off-the-cuff. Finally, the acoustic part is weak. I totally cramped out my thumb because I'm not used to playing big chords on the jumbo for so long. And toward the end, the song drones on Em, though that did bring out a nice quiet section where I started muting the acoustic part and then followed my own lead on the subsequent instrumentation.

Recording technique: Played the acoustic on my Alvarez jumbo while listening to the original recording of Thrill is Gone. I like starting out that way because it gives me the percussion and chord/song structure to build from. Then I laid on the vocals to flesh out the form. Third track was the lead line (forgot to switch off the lead pickup after the solo, heh). Then I threw the bass line on there. Half-hour front to back, total time spent on this.

No mixing on the track or anything, I was just using it for ideas and to bolster my confidence in my playing. I thought it almost came together and there's the bones of a good track in there, so I figured I'd share it. I really suck with finalizing songs, I'd rather just keep jamming :) Hope you enjoy it.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2007, 08:16:36 AM by Sky »
Sky
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Reply #661 on: December 12, 2007, 12:22:39 PM

Arg, now I know how you feel when you put up a tune and nobody comments on it, Raph :P

Anyway, check out this link for gadget coolness:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone/proremote-pro-tools-controller-may-be-coolest-iphone-app-ever-updated-332324.php
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Reply #662 on: December 12, 2007, 01:03:48 PM

Good playing man. Good luck on finding that amp too. A good tone will definitely bring out the best in that playing. With that high gain right now, you sound a bit like Santana! Not a bad thing though.

Anyways.. Forgot to look back at this thread to comment. Sorry!

The acoustic causes a bit of dissonance though, I have to say..

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Reply #663 on: December 12, 2007, 01:10:54 PM

By the way, for the vocals: They're not as bad as you think, but I have this suspicion that you'd be more comfortable a half step sharp.

[edit] P.S. Don't even pay attention to BB  smiley Do your own thing, just find your range.

Like this little cat here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHoO3JHnn3Q


« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 01:33:02 PM by Stray »
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Reply #664 on: December 13, 2007, 10:52:00 AM

Arg, now I know how you feel when you put up a tune and nobody comments on it, Raph :P

Heh... and I didn't even see it until today! Will grab it and take a listen and offer comments.
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