D&D online beta begins

[bhodi]

I

How

kind

can

of

you

miss

possibly?

him.

I mean, really.

[d4rkj3di]

I fat fingered a trivia answer during the stress test, and "Slaad" became "Salad".  It's something that is on my list to watch, since I have a small group of D&D freaks that I table-top with.  Time to preach 3.5 to a bunch of 2nd Ed fanatics.

[Sky]

Give me 1st Ed or give me death!!

[Righ]

Agreed, 1st edition AD&D with the 1st covers - the cheesy amateur looking pictures and the yellow corner stripe. That's very important.

[Sky]

I know you aren't judging those books by their covers, right?

Do you listen to Jessica Simpson instead of Susan Tedeschi?

[Righ]

Its about nostalgia. I'm not nostalgic about either of those young ladies. I'm nostalgic about Kate Bush and Chrissy Hynde even though their covers are looking a little worn.

[Sky]

I love the production values of the 3rd ed. I don't like the fact that it was out-of-date a couple months after I bought it and now I'm supposed to buy new books, or that there are about 43 gajillion 3rd ed books at barnes and noble.

My nostalgia is the way the early books were written. 2nd edition insulted my intelligence, 1st ed was a blast to read through cover to cover.

I can't wait to be nostalgic about Tedeschi, she can only improve with age.

[Hoax]

Sounds like DnD learned from the Gamesworkshop school of moneyhats.

[Sky]

WotC, it's American for GW.

[El Gallo]

Agreed, 1st edition AD&D with the 1st covers - the cheesy amateur looking pictures and the yellow corner stripe. That's very important.

Preach that gospel, brother Sky.  If it doesn't say Gygax, it ain't D&D!

[Velorath]

I like the old first edition stuff, and I like a lot of things in 3rd edition also.  The main thing I've disliked about 2nd and 3rd edition are all the sourcebooks that get churned out with a few pages of useful stuff and then a ton of filler material.  Do gamers really need Players Handbook II and Dungeon Master's Guide II?

[Calandryll]

The NDA has been lifted.

www.ddo.com

[Triforcer]

Beta Journal #7

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee

In the typical sandwich combat MMO, there’s little point in trying to dodge blows from a monster you’re fighting; it’s programmed to hit you regardless. While you can engage a DDO monster in that manner, real-time reactions will make you a much more efficient fighter (with a lot more hit points left over at the end of a fight). Don’t just stand in front of the enemy and trade blows. Keep those feet moving - to the flanks - adjust your position. Much like boxers and marital artists do, move around to keep your opponent off-balance. Nimble monsters present a challenge, they may move to face you as fast as you move away, so mix your movement by also jumping back and forth as you attack.

Can I dual wield Deagles too?

     

[Llava]

The NDA has been lifted.

www.ddo.com

Let the flood begin!

Tell me what I wanna know.  Everything.  Go!

[Wolf]

Make a new topic !!1

[Sky]

Do gamers really need Players Handbook II and Dungeon Master's Guide II?

Your avatar would understand.

[5150]

The NDA has been lifted.

www.ddo.com

Wot no Euro pre-order/release?

 :-(

[Samwise]

The main thing I've disliked about 2nd and 3rd edition are all the sourcebooks that get churned out with a few pages of useful stuff and then a ton of filler material. 

I just go to the game store, skim the book, make a mental note of anything that looked useful (usually it's something simple enough to be remembered, like a single cool adventure idea), and put it back.  Works very well.

[Velorath]

The main thing I've disliked about 2nd and 3rd edition are all the sourcebooks that get churned out with a few pages of useful stuff and then a ton of filler material. 

I just go to the game store, skim the book, make a mental note of anything that looked useful (usually it's something simple enough to be remembered, like a single cool adventure idea), and put it back.  Works very well.

My brother and I actually have a friend who worked at a game store for year.  We had a stack of photocopied pages from AD&D and Shadowrun sourcebooks.  Rifts books have a lot of filler material also, but their filler at least tends to be creative and well written (and consequently their sources books tend to come out months or years later than planned).

[Kail]

Rifts books have a lot of filler material also, but their filler at least tends to be creative and well written (and consequently their sources books tend to come out months or years later than planned).

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!!!!

HACKcoughcoughHACK!!

Ahem.

I disagree.  Qu-quite strongly, in fact.  But then, production values were pretty low across the whole board back when I got those books, so maybe they're better now, I dunno.

[Samwise]

I was positively addicted to Rifts books for a while.  I never managed to get a group of players together, but the books were just so damn fun to read.  The vampire sourcebook in particular was really neat (vampires as mega-damage elemental creatures controlled by parasitic alien hive minds in South America).  Tons of really off-the-wall stuff in those books.

[Velorath]

Rifts books have a lot of filler material also, but their filler at least tends to be creative and well written (and consequently their sources books tend to come out months or years later than planned).

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!!!!

HACKcoughcoughHACK!!

Ahem.

I disagree.  Qu-quite strongly, in fact.  But then, production values were pretty low across the whole board back when I got those books, so maybe they're better now, I dunno.

Matter of taste I suppose.  I'd take any Rifts sourcebook over, well... pretty much any sourcebook ever written for Forgotten Realms (which was the majority of the 2nd edition stuff), and don't even get me started on shit like those Complete (insert class here) Handbooks.  10 pages maybe of useful rules for your class and 100+ pages of some of the dullest filler written.

[Samwise]

The 2nd Ed Planescape stuff was pure luv.  As is Ravenloft, even the 3E version (in part because WotC's not in charge of it).

[Velorath]

The 2nd Ed Planescape stuff was pure luv.  As is Ravenloft, even the 3E version (in part because WotC's not in charge of it).

I only read a little bit of the Planescape stuff since the group I played with already had a ton of games on our plate at the time.  I did like what little I'd read though, and I'm actually kind of fond of the Birthright stuff as all (although the rules for running a kingdom were pretty clunky).  Ravenloft was good, Dark Sun focused on Psionics a lot which killed it for me, Dragonlance and Greyhawk were pretty much dead as far as 2nd ed. support goes, never got into Spelljammer.

[Venkman]

Is it telling that the NDA has been lifted and nobody's got anything new to say? ;)

[Samwise]

I'll just say that I like DDO quite a bit, and I seem to be the only one, so I'm just writing myself off as a freak of nature rather than trying to defend my aberrant opinion.

Sort of like Sky and SWG, I guess.

[schild]

Is it telling that the NDA has been lifted and nobody's got anything new to say? ;)

That's because 20 minutes after the NDA dropped 860+ posts on the subject magically appeared. If your answer can't be found in there, it can't be found right now. You know how we crucify people for not using the search button.

[Signe]

Search button?  I did a search for search button and the only post where those two words appeared side by side was the one you just made.  If there is a search button around here, the search button doesn't know about it!  I don't believe anyone should be crucified until you sort it out.

[Llava]

any sourcebook ever written for Forgotten Realms (which was the majority of the 2nd edition stuff), and don't even get me started on shit like those Complete (insert class here) Handbooks.  10 pages maybe of useful rules for your class and 100+ pages of some of the dullest filler written.

I sometimes go through those books, to see how awful they are.  And man.  They're bad.

I especially dislike how the characterize certain actions as intrinsically one alignment or another.  Like using poison is ALWAYS evil, so if you want to take the "Assassin Kit" for your Rogue, you have to be evil. MAYBE neutral.

And god, pages and pages of crap about thieves guilds, and how all rogues suddenly are supposed to belong to a thieves guild, and how they have to tithe, and here's how you build a hideout for a thieves guild, and here's different kinds of thieves guilds, and here's the average roster of a thieves guild, and don't forget that not everyone in a thieves guild has to be a rogue, and hell here's some rules for warriors and such who belong to thieves guilds!

HEY! THIS IS A ROGUE BOOK, ASSES!  GO WRITE COMPLETE THIEVES GUILDS IF YOU LIKE THAT SO MUCH!

[Sky]

Using poison is a fairly nasty act. Nice people don't really go around poisoning folks. Assassins are pretty evil people, as they kill people for a living. I don't see where you are going with that.

Ravenloft wasn't bad (lost my 1st ed module :(), but Planescape was cool as hell. I wasn't really playing much, so only got a box set. Great setting, great artwork.

DDO: It's a good game. I enjoyed some parts of it. As I've said, if you group regularly, it's definitely worth checking out. If you primarily solo, not so much.

[Venkman]

That's because 20 minutes after the NDA dropped 860+ posts on the subject magically appeared. If your answer can't be found in there, it can't be found right now. You know how we crucify people for not using the search button.

Yes except that place is full of knowledge both new and ancient, with one of the top three threads being is anyone still playing?. I wanted to find out here, in the public-forum thread that already existed, if people weren't talking about it because of what DDO is, or because they've put so much time in it to date they've run through their enjoyment cycle already.

[Llava]

Using poison is a fairly nasty act. Nice people don't really go around poisoning folks. Assassins are pretty evil people, as they kill people for a living. I don't see where you are going with that.

So Sam Fisher, someone who kills people very frequently and certainly has the same or very similar skillset as an assassin, would be evil.

Using poison may not be honorable, but it's not always evil.  I'd bar Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral from using it.  Maybe Neutral Good.  I see no reason a Chaotic Good character wouldn't use poison if it was the best way to accomplish a worthy goal.

[Sky]

So Sam Fisher, someone who kills people very frequently and certainly has the same or very similar skillset as an assassin, would be evil.

Yes. I'd classify him as Lawful Neutral at best. Following orders to kill people who are 'bad' based on nebulous decisionmaking? I never found anyone willing to kill people in the name of good deserving of the label of good. Necessary, hell yes. Good? No. The ends justify the means is not the path to the happy hunting grounds, it's neutral at best imo.

Lawfulness has nothing to do with poison usage, so long as it's aligned with the laws you follow. If you're a member of an evil society, poison use is fine. Lawful Evil was a lot of fun to RP in AD&D, scarlet brotherhood ftw.

[Murgos]

The ends justify the means is not the path to the happy hunting grounds, it's neutral at best imo.

And just out of sheer perversity I am going to ask, wasn't the Happy Hunting Grounds the Lawful Neutral plane in Deities and Demigods?

[Velorath]

Using poison is a fairly nasty act. Nice people don't really go around poisoning folks. Assassins are pretty evil people, as they kill people for a living. I don't see where you are going with that.

Jamming sharp objects into people or setting them on fire are pretty nasty acts too, so what's your point?  Most heroes in D&D kill for a living.