Episode 3

[schild]

Llava, don't help WUA. It's fun watching him rationalize this bullshit.

[WindupAtheist]

Still, though.  Vader BUILT C3PO.  Seems like he should've thought about it.  How accurately would you recall a stereo that you built by hand in 1985?

What if that stereo were a kit of an existing design, one which was dirt-common and still in production to this day?  Remember C3PO walking past his apparent identical twin in Cloud City?  Shit, he probably wasn't even the first physically identical protocol droid Vader saw THAT DAY.  How is that rationalizing anything?  Those droids are so common that backwater farmers buy them from junk dealers, for chrissakes.

[HaemishM]

No, sorry, the "it was 20 years ago and these are common types" argument does not wash. Vader built fucking C3P0. R2 was HIS FLIGHT DROID during the most traumatic time of his life. It does not compute.

I have now seen Ep3 in its entirety. And I must say, not only was WUA wrong about it being as good or better than AotC, it was a goddamn travesty of a sham or a shamockery. It was just god-fucking-awful.

Besides the silliness of the above-mentioned scene, it was just a cascade of stupid, stupid, stupid. The bad dialogue from Clones was worse here. Portman really did just phone in what little shit she was given. I cringed every time she and Anakin appeared on screen together.

The hamfisted allusions to the Bush administration in the political shit... fucking awful. Really fucking awful. In fact, the whole political story was retarded. Chancellor suspends a democracy and then announces it as AN EMPIRE? Does the word empire not have negative connotations in this society? It sounded pretty negative to me. A society that one decade prior didn't even have a standing army is suddenly ok with some shriveled raisin suspending the electoral process and declaring the society an empire when there aren't really even any enemies left for it to conquer or fight? HUH? WHAT IS THE EMPIRE CONQUERING? The separtist movement was defeated, or mostly with the death of Grievous, but the Senate is afraid of what? The Jedi taking over? That makes sense... how exactly?

The transformation of Palpatine from good acting to "MUWHA HAHHAHAHAH!" was really bad. The fact that no one in the Senate notices that the Chancellor has turned from beneficient leader to raging douchebag because of being "hideously scarred" is idiotic.

The actors, the ones who can actually act, that is, do ok with what they have. Which isn't much.

My biggest problem is the speed with which Anakin bows down to Sidious. Had this happened in Ep2, giving us more time to see his transformation, I might have bought it. But he went from whiny, but loyal brat to "I WANT TO SLAUGHTER CHILDRENZ AND FEASTES ON THEIR BONES!" in like 30 seconds. It not only didn't ring true, it felt totally out of character. We aren't talking about faceless Sand People here, we're talking children he's probably known personally. And the ultimate reason for it was just fucking stupid. "This raisin guy can maybe help me research a way that maybe I can create life with midichlorians, even though he doesn't really know the power, but maybe he can teach me, and I really love Padme and she might die at some time in the near or far future so I think I'll slaughter my friends and betray everything I know and have been taught and YAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGHGGHHG! I'm da most powerful Jedi."

What... the... fuck.

The story is given no time to breath, at all, and so nothing makes sense. It makes me think that Ep1 shouldn't have even been made, because it was mostly a waste of time. That 2 hours could have been 15 minutes and still made sense. Also, Lucas has turned Vader from one of the greatest cinematic villains of all time into a whiny punk bitch led around by a collar. Total shit.

Also, Mace Windu was killed like a punk. Shitty, shitty fucking death scene. Jackson should sue.

"I have the high ground?" WHAT THE FUCK? For all the reasons already stated, THAT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE. Chewbacca is a wookie, but the ewoks live on Endor. That does not make sense. Chewbacca knew Yoda? And yet he has no seeds of wisdom to offer young Luke about his time with Jedi? Total fanboi pandering there. The Wookie part wasn't totally out of place, but wasn't necessary either.

Jedi powers are completely inconsistent. Christopher Lee also dies like a punk bitch, and no one seems to notice that the Chancellor is just ordering the execution of motherfuckers left and right. There's war and there's slaughter. I have now come to hate droids and all the cuteness and stupidity they represent.

In short, Lucas showed he is a no-talent hack with a penchant for special effects. James Cameron could have written and directed a better movie, if you could ever pry him off the ocean floor. Frankenvader is the perfect allegory for the entire series of prequels. I only fear for a world with adult fiction writers who have grown up not on the original trilogy, but this nasty mess.

[WindupAtheist]

No, sorry, the "it was 20 years ago and these are common types" argument does not wash. Vader built fucking C3P0.

1 - Take how common protocol droids appear to be.
2 - Take the fact that they are all physically identical save for color.
3 - Take the fact that, even so, they all appear to be of metalic finish.

Tell me with a straight face that Vader isn't used to seeing droids which look exactly like C3PO, but which are not him.

R2 was HIS FLIGHT DROID during the most traumatic time of his life. It does not compute.

1 - Astromech droids are seen trundling around nearly EVERYWHERE in the fucking universe.
2 - While they come with two different "head" shapes, the dome is by far the most common.
3 - There are only so many colors to slap onto the dome plating.
4 - The entire line of droids as a whole are referred to as "R2 units."

How can anyone who gets around have NOT seen multiple blue-domed "R2's" over the years?

[Evil Elvis]

I'll say it.

Any 11 year old who builds a fucking robot, gives it a prissy english accent, keeps it around him for a decade, and knows it has one leg colored differently from the rest of it should be able to remember it when he sees it.

[Jayce]

I was just going to say that Jedi mind powers don't work in space.  Like screaming.

Heh. Star Wars. Space. Jedi mind powers don't work.

That's a good one.

Battle meditation (granted, apocryphal if KoTOR is not canon, though the Emperor seemed to use it in Ep6)
Luke's utilization of the force to target the torpedos in Ep4.

The story is given no time to breath, at all, and so nothing makes sense.

Thank you.  It feels like a plot outline more than a story.  Every scene is a roman numeral.  I said something like this a few pages back and someone responded "don't even go there", and I still have no idea why.

[WindupAtheist]

I'll say it.

Any 11 year old who builds a fucking robot, gives it a prissy english accent, keeps it around him for a decade, and knows it has one leg colored differently from the rest of it should be able to remember it when he sees it.

Wasn't C3PO still blown to pieces during the carbon freezing scene?  "OMG THAT HEAD AND TORSO STRAPPED TO THE WOOKIE'S BACK LOOK FAMILIAR!"

[Evil Elvis]

I suppose he went def, and probably blocked the painful childhood memories - including all those about his annoying, gold protocol droid - from his mind, too.

[Merusk]

I suppose he went def, and probably blocked the painful childhood memories - including all those about his annoying, gold protocol droid - from his mind, too.

If you had to spend an extended amount of time with 3p0, wouldn't you?

[WindupAtheist]

I suppose he went def, and probably blocked the painful childhood memories - including all those about his annoying, gold protocol droid - from his mind, too.

I've owned my car for a while.  A lot of memories relate to my car.  If my car were a droid, I'd probably know it really well.  But if I'm walking down the road and see a car of identical make, model, and color smashed into a wall, I don't immediately deduce that someone stole my car and wrecked it.  Because it's a fucking mass-manufactured product.  Are you really this dense?

[Evil Elvis]

I suppose he went def, and probably blocked the painful childhood memories - including all those about his annoying, gold protocol droid - from his mind, too.

If you had to spend an extended amount of time with 3p0, wouldn't you?

You win.

I've owned my car for a while.  A lot of memories relate to my car.  If my car were a droid, I'd probably know it really well.  But if I'm walking down the road and see a car of identical make, model, and color smashed into a wall, I don't immediately deduce that someone stole my car and wrecked it.  Because it's a fucking mass-manufactured product.  Are you really this dense?

I dunno.  Does my fictional car have a distinct area that I left primer grey, and exist in a galaxy with millions of different languages yet speaks in an incredibly effeminate british accent?

[WindupAtheist]

I dunno.  Does my fictional car have a distinct area that I left primer grey,

What the hell are you talking about, anyway?  Since when does C3PO have one grey leg?  And furthermore, what the fuck does it matter since he was dismembered when Vader saw him?

and exist in a galaxy with millions of different languages yet speaks in an incredibly effeminate british accent?

He never spoke to Vader.  What the fuck, have you even seen the movie?

[schild]

WUA, first you defended the shit out of UO. For a while now it's been Star Wars. Your bad at deciding what shit is worth defending.

Let me help:

Lord Blackthorne and Jedi can be put on the "not worth wasting time on" list.

[WindupAtheist]

Oh you're right Schild.  It's a total continuity fuckup that one character would fail to recognize another by their funny leg (they don't have) and voice (which they haven't heard in two decades.)  It's like they had someone Chinese play Anakin, and had Padme give birth to octuplets.  I should STFU and bow to logic.   

Piss off, Schild.  Your "pompous teenage lesbian film student in a beret who defines herself by what she hates" attitude is beyond tiresome.

[schild]

1. C3PO did have an accent and a unique leg. Idiot.
2. The amount of trash I enjoy far outweighs the amount of artsy shit I watch. I happen to watch more "film" than most of the people who go to movies...ever. Including the people here. As such, my ratio seems a bit off. But trust me, it's not. When I start saying shit like "Redupers is a great movie" or "This is going to own.  This is going to make Empire look like flowers and bunnies.  The streets will flow with the blood of the naysayers.  You heard it here first" then you can call me a pompous teenage lesbian film student who defines herself by what she hates. Oh and wears a beret. Cuz really, even a pompous teenage baret-wearing lesbian knows better than to say that about a Lucas directed Star Wars movie.

[Margalis]

Slapfight!

[schild]

Remember kids, it's never a slapfight when one person is a fanboi and the other person has a banstick.

And oh man did you all miss some drama on teamspeak tonight. Boy, was it great. Ever seen a guild completely fall apart? Oh, wait, that happens to Bat Country in every game. Nevermind.

[Ironwood]

Poopsock

Yeah, that's what I said a page ago.  You used, you know, more words, but you hit on everything that's wrong with the movie for me.  Once again, you manage to say exactly what I'm thinking.  It must be a Scottish thing.  Or summat.

UNLIMITED POWWWWWWWWWWWWWER !!!

[HaemishM]

No, sorry, the "it was 20 years ago and these are common types" argument does not wash. Vader built fucking C3P0.

1 - Take how common protocol droids appear to be.
2 - Take the fact that they are all physically identical save for color.
3 - Take the fact that, even so, they all appear to be of metalic finish.

Tell me with a straight face that Vader isn't used to seeing droids which look exactly like C3PO, but which are not him.

R2 was HIS FLIGHT DROID during the most traumatic time of his life. It does not compute.

1 - Astromech droids are seen trundling around nearly EVERYWHERE in the fucking universe.
2 - While they come with two different "head" shapes, the dome is by far the most common.
3 - There are only so many colors to slap onto the dome plating.
4 - The entire line of droids as a whole are referred to as "R2 units."

How can anyone who gets around have NOT seen multiple blue-domed "R2's" over the years?

Simple. Lucas has gone to great pains to show droids having unique personalities. I'd think even after 20 years of trauma, Vader would recognize droids he built, droids he spent a great deal of time with, and droids with the SAME FUCKING NAMES AND PERSONALITIES of the said droids.

You are apologizing for a man who has zero respect for his own continuity, much less anyone else's. He justifies it by saying "it's an adventure movie" while in the same breath saying it's "Shakespearean drama" and "a spiritual journey." No, it's a turkey-necked whore's attempt to provide money hats for his 4th generation descendents.

[WayAbvPar]

Remember kids, it's never a slapfight when one person is a fanboi and the other person has a banstick.

And oh man did you all miss some drama on teamspeak tonight. Boy, was it great. Ever seen a guild completely fall apart? Oh, wait, that happens to Bat Country in every game. Nevermind.

Transcript plskthx.

[El Gallo]

Uh, just so I'm clear on the depths of inanity this thread has reached.  I haven't seen the originals in years, but my recollection is that the only time Vader and C3PO were only in the same scene once.  In that scene, there were a jillion people in the room, and DV was getting ready to freeze Solo to see if he could use the same thiing on Luke, and also on the lookout for Luke, who he knew would show up because his friends were in trouble.  Luke, by the way, who he has figured out was his previously-believed-to-have-died-in-the-womb son.  The son he plans to join with and overthrow the emperor, so Vader can finally move from the sniveling #2 bitch-boy position he's been in since the day he was born, because he's an underachieving co-dependent and has been every day of his sad-sack life.  I'm sure he was focused on whatever shit was in the backpack of that wookie across the room.

OK, across the room from vader is C3P0, in little pieces, in a backpack on the backside of a huge fucking wookie.  I'm sure C3P0 made some kind of pseudo-witty comment under his breath.  But that was it. 

You people are shitting a continuity brick because of this?  Really?  I mean, I must be forgetting some scene from the original trilogy where C3PO and Vader have a long discussion about hating sand and tasteless baroque lakeside palaces on Naboo and Vader just looked befuddled when C3PO said "hey do you remember me, bro?"  Because otherwise this shit is just embarrasing.

I've heard fanbois somewhere mention that Boba Fett went to shoot Chewbacca during that scene and Vader stopped him.  They theorized that Vader must have recognized that the random piles of shit in Chewbacca's backpack were his beloved childhood droid.  I thought that was really, really reaching.  But that was eminently sensible compared to the shit that is being spewed about the scene here.

Now, I thought is was stupid to have had Anakin build C3PO.  It was fucking stupid as fuck.  But the continuity crying has reached an all-time low here. 

HOLY FUCK, HAMLET WAS ABLE TO SPEAK TO ANGELS WHO WARNED HIM THAT HIS CHILDHOOD FRIENDS WERE GONNA MURDER HIM, BUT THOSE ANGELS DIDN'T MENTION THAT THE DUDE BEHIND THE CURTAIN WASN'T HIS UNCLE OR THAT THE SWORD OF THE GUY HE WAS FIGHTING WAS POISONED.  OMG CONTINUITY.  WHY WILL, WHY? WHY DO YOU KILL MY SOUL SO?  SUPER POWERS TURN OFF AND ON!  MY CHILDHOOD IS DEAD! OHHH THE HUMANITY !!!111!!

[Polysorbate80]

Besides, remember that glimpse out through the eyes of Vader's helmet before they slapped it on him?  They ripped off the Terminator "Everything's red with computer graphics on it" vision thing.  Shit all looks the same to Darth.

[Fargull]

Holy crap this thread is huge.  I don't even think Lucas's psychologist is worth that much attention.  Star Wars has become as schizo as Lucas has... which I guess makes sense.  Sad.

[HaemishM]

It isn't the fact that Vader did or didn't talk onscreen to the fucking droids that bothers me. After all, we are treated to some scenes of Vader torturing or being present in the torture of Han Solo, which would lead me to believe he DID have contact with the other members of the party, including Chewie with the droid on his back. The problem is that in the originals, all of these characters are seen as unconnected, not recognizing each other, etc. And then Lucas goes out of his way to make sure they ARE connected, what with Anakin building C3P0 and Chewie apparently being enough of a friend of Yoda's to be on a first name basis. It's shitty, shoddy story-telling, and the characters act in an unconvincing manner when looked at in the new light. I mean, did Yoda HAVE to talk to Chewbacca, as if there weren't 50 bazillion other walking dustbunnies to choose from? Why did Anakin HAVE to be the builder of C3P0? For that matter, I didn't like the entire inclusion of the droids in the prequels, because it's just all too coincidental. Out of a galaxy of TRILLIONS, all these people are connected. If that was supposed to be the Force guiding everyone together, well, it's a shitty job of explaining that.

[Arnold]

It isn't the fact that Vader did or didn't talk onscreen to the fucking droids that bothers me. After all, we are treated to some scenes of Vader torturing or being present in the torture of Han Solo, which would lead me to believe he DID have contact with the other members of the party, including Chewie with the droid on his back. The problem is that in the originals, all of these characters are seen as unconnected, not recognizing each other, etc. And then Lucas goes out of his way to make sure they ARE connected, what with Anakin building C3P0 and Chewie apparently being enough of a friend of Yoda's to be on a first name basis. It's shitty, shoddy story-telling, and the characters act in an unconvincing manner when looked at in the new light. I mean, did Yoda HAVE to talk to Chewbacca, as if there weren't 50 bazillion other walking dustbunnies to choose from? Why did Anakin HAVE to be the builder of C3P0? For that matter, I didn't like the entire inclusion of the droids in the prequels, because it's just all too coincidental. Out of a galaxy of TRILLIONS, all these people are connected. If that was supposed to be the Force guiding everyone together, well, it's a shitty job of explaining that.

Not to mention that R2 knew everything the whole fucking time and never fessed up!  Sure, Obi-Wan and Yoda had their manipulative Jedi pact going on, but R2 had no allegiance to them.  You'd think he would have said something.

"Hey yo, Luke.  That guy who killed my old pal Obi-Wan on the Death Star, and now just tried to smoke you before Han shot him off into space... He's your pops."

[El Gallo]

I liked having the droids in the prequels (they are interesting innocent bystanders so to speak, they are the first beings we met in Ep IV, and I liked having R2 save the day for Amidala and then continue to follow her around, because it explains why her daughter thought so much of the droid that she entrusted it with the death star plans in Ep IV) .

But I aleady said that the "Anakin building c3po" thing was dumb and the gratuitous chewbacca scene was even worse (that scene needed to be eliminated entirely or be made much longer -- one of the many pacing problems Ep III suffered because he spent so much time dicking around with worthless shit in I & II)).  The "there are too many coincidences for me to sustaion credulity even with The Force lurking about especially when many of these coincidences are purely gratuitous and advance the story not one bit" argument is an apt criticism.  "OMG CONTINUITY" isn't, and stretching to find some possible glimmer-of-an-egregious-continuity-error-if-you-squint-at-it-and-cock-your-head-like-so just makes you look like you are looking for an excuse to bash with no good reason to.  It's not like its hard to find a good reason.  Like Nosferatu's absurd overacting.

[WindupAtheist]

1. C3PO did have an accent and a unique leg. Idiot.

Except his legs were blown off and he never spoke to Vader.  Moron.

2. The amount of trash I enjoy far outweighs the amount of artsy shit I watch. I happen to watch more "film" than most of the people who go to movies...ever. Including the people here. As such, my ratio seems a bit off. But trust me, it's not. When I start saying shit like "Redupers is a great movie" or "This is going to own.  This is going to make Empire look like flowers and bunnies.  The streets will flow with the blood of the naysayers.  You heard it here first" then you can call me a pompous teenage lesbian film student who defines herself by what she hates. Oh and wears a beret. Cuz really, even a pompous teenage baret-wearing lesbian knows better than to say that about a Lucas directed Star Wars movie.

I liked it muchly.  It received by far the best reviews any SW movie has at the time of initial release.  It's scraped up a healthy box office take.  Am I supposed to really care that a few professional haters of stuff on a board somewhere don't like it?  Your criticism might seem more valid if you didn't resort to "ZOMG VADAR SHOULD HAVE RECOGNIZED C3PO LEG EVEN THO IT WAS BLOWN OFF!" in your grasping to say as much negative as possible.

[HaemishM]

There are many good reasons to bash it. The droids are just one more good reason.

[Llava]

The strangest thing about this film is that I am entirely aware of the problems, the poor dialogue, the bad acting, the continuity, the crappy pacing, etc etc etc, but I still enjoyed myself in the theater.  And I'd still watch it again.  I don't know why, on paper it's a horrible, horrible movie but I still liked it.

[Ironwood]

I didn't.   I also spent a couple of horrible moments in the theatre (where I'm paying to be entertained) cringing at how bad it was.

I also find it a little strange that people like it better than the other two. It really wasn't.


I think they should just wipe the fucking slate clean and do a prequel to the prequels.  It should be about the breasty-hot Jedi and it should tell the tear-jerking story of how she became a Jedi through her athletic sexual prowess.

It's a winner, I tell you.

[Shockeye]

I have a feeling this guy was underwhelmed.

I didn't think it was possible to be more unimpressed with Star Wars. Today, I stand corrected. If you were unfortunate enough to hear your stupid co-workers yammering on about Lucas' latest shit burger, you might have heard them saying something like "I didn't like the first two, but this one was good!" When I ask why, these people have trouble responding because it's hard to talk with George Lucas' flaccid penis in their collective mouths. Perhaps the question I should be asking is "why didn't you like the other two movies if you liked this one?" Nothing has changed. You have the same vacant-looking actors running around, aimlessly bumping into things, an army of stupid, sensitive robots, and dialogue clumsy enough to warrant putting a handicap sticker on George Lucas' car.

[Paelos]

Was the plan to make this thread the longest in F13 history? If so, bravo. We don't look any nerdier now. 

[WayAbvPar]

The third Maddox pic is the best by far.

[schild]

I started crying when this thread hit page 3. Lucas got far too much attention.

[Yegolev]

Does my fictional car have a distinct area that I left primer grey, and exist in a galaxy with millions of different languages yet speaks in an incredibly effeminate british accent?

You bet your ass.