A Unique Position: Honor Feedback

[Hoax]

Hoax - Screw GW, I'm playing Planetside again.

I loved Planetside, but seriously the character development is so shallow you might as well just join a Cstrike league.  Also in Pside your guild needs to be huge, every forum I read actively has an actual guild that can participate for GW because you only need 8 people online at a time.

But yeah I could go for Sony making PlanetsideII with more vehicles, player-built bases, a bigger less warp-pointy map, and more character evolution.

[Paelos]

The easiest fix is taking it to the battlegrounds only.

What he said

Jeff

Once more for the hard of thinking: roll back to 1.3.1. Clear all PvP rewards from the item databases.

In what bizzarro world does the EASIEST FIX involve writing and testing NEW CODE?

Uh in the same world where you don't have a GIANT SHITSTORM from your players over a rollback. Honestly, don't be retarded. What game is going to basically just pull back everything they put out there? I haven't ever seen that done. So yeah, if the easiest thing would be unprecendented action to your customer base, then sure, giddy up.

[WayAbvPar]

It has been done in the past,  but usually only when there were facestabbingly giant bugs involved.

[Paelos]

It has been done in the past,  but usually only when there were facestabbingly giant bugs involved.

Yeah I recognize the need there. Rolling back because the game stops functioning is one thing. Rolling back because your system ruffles some skirts is another. Personally, I have almost no problems with the way the honor system works, I just have problems with what they left out.

[Righ]

In what bizzarro world does the EASIEST FIX involve writing and testing NEW CODE?

Uh in the same world where you don't have a GIANT SHITSTORM from your players over a rollback. Honestly, don't be retarded. What game is going to basically just pull back everything they put out there? I haven't ever seen that done. So yeah, if the easiest thing would be unprecendented action to your customer base, then sure, giddy up.

You're living on Planet Ignorance if you think there isn't already a GIANT SHITSTORM from the players regarding the current state of the game. I know you don't want a version rollback, but it is the easiest fix. To deny it with circuitous arguments about potential reactions does not help your case.

[Paelos]

Unless your definition of easy is different than mine, it involves the reprecussions of an action. I'm not living under a rock, and I do realize that people are pissed about the current state. What's funny though is they don't have to do anything but continue their process of getting battlegrounds into the game, which was going on anyway (a point you seem to miss), and wait out the roar. I call that easy. I don't think it's easier explaining why the good stuff that people enjoyed from Patch 1.4 disappeared. The patch fixed numerous issues with loot, classes, instances, and bugs. Rolling back isn't an option unless your patch makes your game non-functional. Period.

[Righ]

Period.

That explains it.

[Ironwood]

Period.

That explains it.

LoL

And whatnot.

[Xanthippe]

who engages in a PVP kill that they initiate get dishonor points.

They've stated that they don't track who initiates fights.  I personally agree it's a good idea not to go down that road: you get involved in a lot of edge cases and exploits.  Think noto PKs from UO.  All a lowbie has to do to dishonor a higher level is walk into his magma totem, arcane explosion, whirlwind, etc.

How different is it from tracking who initiates a fight against a mob (which is definitely tracked).

Not very, I'm sure.

[Sky]

Did any of you people play UO?

Nothing can be done short of making a PvE mirror to stop the behaviour that's occurred since the "Honor" patch, save removing the patch. Those who don't learn the lessons of the past and whatnot.

But hey, knock yerselves out, it'll be fun to munch popcorn with.

[Signe]

Rolling back might be the easy fix, but Sky is right.  It's all done. It's unlikely it will get undone.  Since it is not coded that the honour system applies only to BGs, it would not be an easy task to make it so.  Sure, they'd lose lots of subs with a rollback but they seem to be losing lots of subs now, anyway. Blizz isn't in Kansas anymore.   Both scenarios are just dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind, the wind.

Umm... err... bugger. 

And whatnot.

[Threash]

Rolling back might be the easy fix, but Sky is right.  It's all done. It's unlikely it will get undone.  Since it is not coded that the honour system applies only to BGs, it would not be an easy task to make it so.  Sure, they'd lose lots of subs with a rollback but they seem to be losing lots of subs now, anyway. Blizz isn't in Kansas anymore.   Both scenarios are just dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind, everything is dust in the wind, the wind.

Umm... err... bugger. 

And whatnot.

I don't know about that losing lots of subs thing, no one i know has quit and they opened 2 new servers last week and another one a couple days ago (2 out of the 3 are pvp).  If i hadn't found Mount and Blade i'd still be pvping in tarren mill non stop.  Made it to rank 5, been completely addicted to m&b since then though so we will find out how much you lose from a week of inactivity next time they calculate the rankings.

[Amp]

I don't think it's easier explaining why the good stuff that people enjoyed from Patch 1.4 disappeared. The patch fixed numerous issues with loot, classes, instances, and bugs.

Might have fixed numerous class bugs, while breaking Frost nova.  Things now warp all over the place instead of freezing in place where they are suppose to which in instances can be lots of fun!  Add that to a list of mage bugs i'll not post.

As for explaining why the good stuff that people were enjoying disappeared, I can just add my own input
You have a large group that enjoyed what 6 or so months of fun on a PvP server, pvp being defined as it was in the game for 6 mtns, giving us the chance to decide if being ganked was your thing and wasting time to level to 60 (or for the people with less time i'd say lvl 40 or multiple 20's) , knowing that yea you are open to being killed at any time, yet, I found that I wouldn't kill randomly.  Neither would alot of the Horde I met.  Hell I took pictures of a bunch of Alliance and Horde Druids and a Shaman all in animal form sitting side by side in Gadz.   They all sat still for like 15 mins while we took different poses.  I couldn't even communicate with the horde minus emotes  but they sat there obedient  and it was pretty humerous.
Hell i've helped a horde kill a boss for some quest after they helped me all with understanding by emote.  Now the only emote I see from Horde is /laugh /hug /spit.  They aren't laughing with me, i'm sure that Taruren is squeezing the shit out of me and well, /spit speaks for itself.


I love to fight trust me.  But they fucked a good game.

[MrHat]

I don't know about that losing lots of subs thing, no one i know has quit and they opened 2 new servers last week and another one a couple days ago (2 out of the 3 are pvp).  If i hadn't found Mount and Blade i'd still be pvping in tarren mill non stop.  Made it to rank 5, been completely addicted to m&b since then though so we will find out how much you lose from a week of inactivity next time they calculate the rankings.

Explain yourself.

I read a bit about it, and am curious.

[Margalis]

Because MMOGs are about pitting many people in a simulated war, not a B.net ladder game of WC3. It runs counter-intuitive to the massive aspect of the genre. Unless you think that the B.net servers are really an MMOG in disguise. I personally do not. The other reason is that simply dueling each other constantly is freaking boring real fast. In the grinder format we have, loot would trump all. That's not the case when you take it on a larger scale. Tactical options and strategies emerge that were not possible with 1v1 or 2v2.

I didn't say it had to be ONLY 1v1 and 2v2. It could be 4v4, 8v8, 100 v 100. Let people choose how to have fun! If fun for me is a duel, let me do that. If fun for me is me and 99 of my guild teammates fighting another huge organized guild, let me do that too. What's the problem with that?

As far as the honor system goes, a good first step would be to stop calling it the "honor system" since it has NOTHING to do with honor at all. Just call it the kill point system, cause that's what it is.

[Threash]

I don't know about that losing lots of subs thing, no one i know has quit and they opened 2 new servers last week and another one a couple days ago (2 out of the 3 are pvp).  If i hadn't found Mount and Blade i'd still be pvping in tarren mill non stop.  Made it to rank 5, been completely addicted to m&b since then though so we will find out how much you lose from a week of inactivity next time they calculate the rankings.

Explain yourself.

I read a bit about it, and am curious.

Think Sid Meirs Pirates! meets Braveheart with the best fucking combat system in any game, evah.

[MrHat]

I don't know about that losing lots of subs thing, no one i know has quit and they opened 2 new servers last week and another one a couple days ago (2 out of the 3 are pvp).  If i hadn't found Mount and Blade i'd still be pvping in tarren mill non stop.  Made it to rank 5, been completely addicted to m&b since then though so we will find out how much you lose from a week of inactivity next time they calculate the rankings.

Explain yourself.

I read a bit about it, and am curious.

Think Sid Meirs Pirates! meets Braveheart with the best fucking combat system in any game, evah.

Schild.  Go buy it with yer expense account.

[schild]

wtf?

[WayAbvPar]

Corp has a thread about Mount and Blade- sounds like fun. If/when I ever get time away from poker, WoW, and now GW, I will check it out. Look for my review in Q1 2017.

[Signe]

Corp has a thread about Mount and Blade- sounds like fun. If/when I ever get time away from poker, WoW, and now GW, I will check it out. Look for my review in Q1 2017.

Err... that's 5 years after the end of the world!  Only good thing about 2012 is that we can avoid the great Unix meltdown of 2038. 

Armegeddon ftw!

[Sky]

I love to fight trust me.  But they fucked a good game.

I like how everyone was bitching that Blizz wasn't patching fast enough, a few months back.

Eat that, suckas! Be careful what you wish for.

[schild]

I love to fight trust me.  But they fucked a good game.

I like how everyone was bitching that Blizz wasn't patching fast enough, a few months back.

Eat that, suckas! Be careful what you wish for.

So, now they're not patching fast enough AND they suck at patching?

I love this industry. I wonder when game development gets a reality show.

Edit: Btw, I know they suck at patching, they use bittorrent. I meant their changes. They suck.

[Ironwood]

The Bittorrent system they use is godawful.  Really, really, really bad.

I'll be back later to tell you some more things that you already know...

[HaemishM]

/TYAK!

World of Warcraft is heavily-influenced by the EQ/DikuMud style of gameplay.

/TYAK!

[Yegolev]

Why can't it be implemented? Why not have 1v1 and 2v2 battlegrounds?

Why not play GW?  Same concept but better design.  No monthly fee, either.

[Rasix]

Why can't it be implemented? Why not have 1v1 and 2v2 battlegrounds?

Why not play GW?  Same concept but better design.  No monthly fee, either.

You're assuming any of your microsecond attention spans will be still playing that game in a month.  The shiny wears off fast, but hey, enjoy. 

[Calantus]

Why can't it be implemented? Why not have 1v1 and 2v2 battlegrounds?

Why not play GW?  Same concept but better design.  No monthly fee, either.

You're assuming any of your microsecond attention spans will be still playing that game in a month.  The shiny wears off fast, but hey, enjoy. 

Heh. That's the exact same thing I've been thinking since people have been going on about GW. :P

[sidereal]

Think Sid Meirs Pirates! meets Braveheart with the best fucking combat system in any game, evah.

I can dance with my own intestines?  OMG, sign me up!

[Hoax]

Why can't it be implemented? Why not have 1v1 and 2v2 battlegrounds?

Why not play GW?  Same concept but better design.  No monthly fee, either.

You're assuming any of your microsecond attention spans will be still playing that game in a month.  The shiny wears off fast, but hey, enjoy. 

Heh. That's the exact same thing I've been thinking since people have been going on about GW. :P

Thats what I've been thinking since I quit WoW.  Lets do a quick run-down why GW even if it is just "the shiny" that makes it worth playing makes more sense then playing WoW:
-skilled pvp
-no ganking (I miss it really but the majority here seem to hate pkays)
-faster grind
-no fee

I'm not going to go on any limbs, those are all just the truth.  How can it not be ok to buy GW and play it (for $50) while people play WoW ($15/mo), and bitch about all the moronic changes they are making but continue to play because the BG's will fix it all for us... 

P.S.  Please dont tell me to just get the fuck off the WoW sub-forum, I usually just add my input into PvP topics I'm just mocking WoW because this whole honor patch makes it too easy.

*shudder* ugly quotes...

[sidereal]

How can it not be ok to buy GW and play it (for $50) while people play WoW ($15/mo)

Because GW is not a MMORPG and therefore people who like MMORPGs will not be satisfied with it?

[MrHat]

Why can't it be implemented? Why not have 1v1 and 2v2 battlegrounds?

Why not play GW?  Same concept but better design.  No monthly fee, either.

You're assuming any of your microsecond attention spans will be still playing that game in a month.  The shiny wears off fast, but hey, enjoy. 

Heh. That's the exact same thing I've been thinking since people have been going on about GW. :P

Thats what I've been thinking since I quit WoW.  Lets do a quick run-down why GW even if it is just "the shiny" that makes it worth playing makes more sense then playing WoW:
-skilled pvp
-no ganking (I miss it really but the majority here seem to hate pkays)
-faster grind
-no fee

I'm not going to go on any limbs, those are all just the truth.  How can it not be ok to buy GW and play it (for $50) while people play WoW ($15/mo), and bitch about all the moronic changes they are making but continue to play because the BG's will fix it all for us... 

P.S.  Please dont tell me to just get the fuck off the WoW sub-forum, I usually just add my input into PvP topics I'm just mocking WoW because this whole honor patch makes it too easy.

*shudder* ugly quotes...

Nested!

I agree with you.

One thing that I've found that I really enjoy is the ability to try different characters in a pvp setting (end game) whenever I'd like.  I'm not stuck with 3 months of leveling and 3 months of farming in order to play a different character.  For instance, tonight I enjoyed playing a healer for the first time ever.  I never make healer characters because it bores the hell out of me to watch the bar move up and down, but it was exciting in GW.  Then I stopped, and remade a necro/mes to try out a bit, it took all of 2 mins.  I had some stuff unlocked from my 1 high level char going through for almost all my chars (itemswise).  But the real key is not feeling like you have to play because you're paying a fee.

[Margalis]

Why can't it be implemented? Why not have 1v1 and 2v2 battlegrounds?

Why not play GW?  Same concept but better design.  No monthly fee, either.

Well, if you like MMORPGs and the PvP is just a part of it for you I would say playing WoW makes some sense. But clearly GW has a lot more going for it in the PvP department.

[schild]

GW has a lot more going for it in the "scaling difficulty as you progress" area as well. Oh and the crafting/loot system. Hell, it's just WoW++. I *would* pay for Guild Wars on a monthly basis if they asked me to. Of course, I wouldn't buy what will no doubt be expansions that are 5-10% of the current game every 3-4 months either.

Edit: If you haven't played this, let me just say - the amount of skills is stupid. Every class has 75 (which means about 157-160 (there are a few classless skills) for each character, unless you don't dual class). Considering there's only 20 levels, it's nuts. Stat increases don't exist. Skill increases for your skills are immediately noticeable across entire skillsets. When you put x points into say, "Blood" under the necromancer tree, every blood skill goes up a solid and immediately gratifying amount. It's pretty clever. Also, with the capture system (combined with the 8-skill deck), we're definately getting closer to the Magic: The Gathering scheme in terms of power distribution. You buy your common skills, quest for your uncommon skills and have to hunt down somewhat random boss mobs hoping they use a certain skill against you - and you have to have a capture signet in your deck - and use it right after they use the skill on you (to get the rare "elite" skills). Brilliant.

[Rasix]

Ok. Terrific.  A game designed ground up for PVP has a better PVP system, OMG REZ WILLIAM RANDOLPH HEARST.  And if you're going to bring up the PVE or crafting as a ++ over WoW, you're eating paint chips and sniffing glue.   (Unless the beta I played wasn't the real game, and like there was some hidden AO SUPER BUILD I didn't play)

Someone should really put up a sub-board for that Guild Wars game.  Looks hot.

[Hoax]

Why can't it be implemented? Why not have 1v1 and 2v2 battlegrounds?

Why not play GW?  Same concept but better design.  No monthly fee, either.

Well, if you like MMORPGs and the PvP is just a part of it for you I would say playing WoW makes some sense. But clearly GW has a lot more going for it in the PvP department.

Again with the ugly quotes...

Agreed, GW is in no way a MMORPG, but lets face it WoW isn't either in the PvP department, I have always kept an eye on these boards while I was playing and now that I'm not.  Most people posting here seem to fall into these stereotypes:

-Random groups suck, big guilds suck, catass sucks, raids suck, I hate ub3r loot
-PvP servers are lame, ganking is lame, unfair pvp is lame, stop killing my quest npc's 

Those two generalizations alone make me wonder why I still sense GW hate.  I mean if your not playing WoW for the EQ-endgame (raids, super lewt, more raids, general catassery) then you are playing it for the PvP which we've already established sucks esp with the honor patch unless you are a PvP catass.  It seems to me the only excuse to still be playing WoW after making these assumptions is that the person believes BG's will magically unfuck everything and the world will sing of their glory. 

Anyways, who cares as long as everybody is having fun right?  Here's hoping GW forces the next Blizz mmog (est release date 2027) to be less EQ and more kickass.