Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 01:02:01 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  TV  |  Topic: Ahsoka (Disney+) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Ahsoka (Disney+)  (Read 5776 times)
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8024


Reply #35 on: April 13, 2023, 07:25:58 PM

The Mandalorians generally seem like a weird narrative cancer--like, here's Boba Fett, he's supposed to be something, he's a badass, he gets his ass handed to him in a ridiculous way, let's do some EU compensation for that, oh wait here comes Jango Fett oh shit the backstory is growing oh noes here is all this other stuff people think about them oh wow Clone Wars. Etc. Reading the whole backstory in order on a wiki is like "oh fuck this is really incoherent bullshit and these guys seem really stupid". It's like the opposite of the Klingons in Star Trek, who start just as oily oriental pseudo-Soviets and end up being pretty complicated but mostly consistent in their complications. The Mandalorians make *less* sense every time they get more attention.

The legends EU had a few authors who more or less worshipped Mandalorians. I used to run into hardcore nerds about it in my SWTOR days who read those books and talked in all the pseudo-gibberish that the EU authors made up, particularly a woman named Karen Travis (I think) who thought Mandos were the most awesome thing ever and the Jedi sucked and the clones were awesome by their connection to the Fetts and all the Jedi deserved to die because they weren't nice enough to the clones or whatever. I read one of her books that was in the old New Republic era and everytime Boba Fett appeared in a book you could almost hear her squee in the background and any Jedi who appeared, including Luke, she just oozed disdain through her writing.

I never got the weird obsession about Mandalorians among fans or some of the authors. I mean, Boba Fetts armor was cool. Sure. It had lots of little tricks and stuff and it's a shame they didn't do more with him in the OT I guess? But I never cared about his "culture" or any of that. I thought Jango Fett was an ass and was quite happy to see Mace Windu lop his head off. I almost didn't watch Book of Boba Fett because I just didn't care that much but I did for Ming Na Wen and honestly she and the silly swoop bike kids were the best part of that show.

The only time I cared at all about Mandalorians (other than the hero of this show) was some of the Clone Wars episodes because they were given a bit of depth without them being shown as the most awesome warriors that have ever existed. Bo Katan, ironically, was one of the ones I really liked and if they wanted to make this show the Bo Katan show I'd be down for it because I think that she has become the more interesting character this season.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #36 on: April 13, 2023, 08:03:27 PM

The Mandalorians make *less* sense every time they get more attention.

Star Wars in general makes less sense the more attention it's given. Very few writers have been able to make anything good out of a universe with characters named Dexter Jettster.

Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10131


Reply #37 on: April 14, 2023, 03:55:07 PM

The Mandalorians make *less* sense every time they get more attention.

Star Wars in general makes less sense the more attention it's given. Very few writers have been able to make anything good out of a universe with characters named Dexter Jettster.
This is exactly the point I was about to make, before realizing I was missing the last few replies. why so serious? But, yea, exactly. Midichlorians are the most egregious example, but far from the only one. Removing literally all of the mystery and intrigue from a fantasy series does it no favors.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9165


Reply #38 on: September 08, 2023, 09:03:19 AM

I'm not liking this very much. Ahsoka does not seem like the same character from clone wars, rebels or even the mandalorian. She reminds me of the guy pretending to be a Jedi in Obi Wan more than anything. Everything else is ok.

I am the .00000001428%
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #39 on: September 08, 2023, 01:16:26 PM

She's almost totally drained of any personality at all. We've seen Dawson show warmth, strength and a bit of mystery in the role, and even that's not here.
Velorath
Contributor
Posts: 8980


Reply #40 on: September 08, 2023, 02:25:51 PM

As someone who hasn't watched the animated stuff, as I pretty much expected/feared, this show makes almost zero attempts to bring me in. It seems to largely operate under the assumption that people know these characters, and as someone who doesn't, they haven't done anything to get me to start caring about them now.
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19212

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #41 on: September 08, 2023, 05:49:45 PM

Gun to my head I could not tell you what this show is about beyond "lady jedis fight the bad jedis?". I've been finding it so difficult to pay attention that I don't even know whether it takes place before or after Mando.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #42 on: September 08, 2023, 06:02:56 PM

It's pretty much the worst combination of:

STAR WARS FANS YOUR EASTER EGGS ARE HERE WOO HOO THRAWN AND EZRA AND ALL THAT, COME AND GET IT

STAR WARS FANS WE DON'T LIKE YOU AND NEED TO MAKE THIS FOR WHAT WE IMAGINE TO BE SOME MAINSTREAM THAT IS NOT YOU
Threash
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9165


Reply #43 on: September 09, 2023, 09:27:06 AM

Ahsoka trying to train someone with zero force sensitivity into being a jedi is just so dumb. First off she is not even a jedi, she does not want to be one and would not want to train someone else to be one. It made sense for Kanan to give her some basic training when she had the darksaber, this doesn't.

I am the .00000001428%
Velorath
Contributor
Posts: 8980


Reply #44 on: September 09, 2023, 01:21:58 PM

Filoni's stuff already seemed like fanfic to begin with, and now it sounds like he's doing bad fanfic of his own fanfic.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #45 on: September 09, 2023, 01:30:17 PM

There's a map and a key and oh hell I don't know. It doesn't feel like they really want to build  the time between Return of the Jedi and Force Awakens into anything like a cohesive narrative with its own stories and conflicts. The whole thing feels so adrift.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #46 on: September 09, 2023, 02:02:13 PM

I'm guessing most of the writers who were tasked with anything approaching "make the First Order into a viable force and a coherent narrative" either noped right the fuck out of the assignment or had a mental break with fucking reality.

Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8024


Reply #47 on: September 10, 2023, 04:17:08 PM

Ahsoka trying to train someone with zero force sensitivity into being a jedi is just so dumb. First off she is not even a jedi, she does not want to be one and would not want to train someone else to be one. It made sense for Kanan to give her some basic training when she had the darksaber, this doesn't.

She doesn't have zero force sensitivity. She does have quite low force sensitivity. Interestingly one of the most famous Jedi in all of Star Wars had such low force sensitivity he almost didn't become a padawan and was on the verge of being sent to the farm all the washouts work out. That being Obi Wan Kenobi. I'm curious if that will come up at some point in the show when Sabine is feeling really down about how "weak" she is.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #48 on: September 10, 2023, 05:40:10 PM

Please give a non-EU canon source for "Obi-Wan Kenobi had low Force sensitivity".

Mind you, I love the idea that being good with the Force is a product of hard work and discipline. But this is a basic tension in wushu films too: everybody works hard at being a great martial artist AND monk and they all are, kind of, and then some motherfucker comes along in the course of the story who hasn't worked a day in his life at this shit and he's a natural who smokes the fuck out of all the hard-working guys. Nobody says "midichlorians" and ok, but it sometimes feels the same. Then again, some wushu movies are about the hard-working motherfucker making good and kicking ass.

I just wish the people making Star Wars were more savvy about that cultural template and played harder into it in a knowing way.
Typhon
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2493


Reply #49 on: September 12, 2023, 12:49:53 PM

Ever since Iron... somebody (Scottish, doesn't seem to be here anymore) lost his fucking mind because I said that the movies certainly seem to think that the Force is inherited (and I haven't read any of the books), I giggle when this topic comes up.   awesome, for real Why yes!, I'm am giggling right now!
Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12227

Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.


Reply #50 on: September 12, 2023, 08:51:26 PM

SPAAAAAAACE WHAAAAAAAALES!

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19212

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #51 on: September 12, 2023, 09:44:03 PM

The ecology of the Star Wars universe is nothing if not aggressively nonsensical.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #52 on: September 13, 2023, 04:40:50 AM

Hilariously so. Which means anybody sensible just has to lean in and enjoy it for what it is--SW's technological aesthetic, its ecologies, etc. are never going to make consistent, coherent sense.
Tebonas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6365


Reply #53 on: September 13, 2023, 06:39:17 AM

As long as they don't try to explain it, I'm fine with it actually. Star Wars was always Science Fantasy, Warp Space Whales are not worse than Space Wizards. As long as they don't tell me their midichlorian count lets them go warp, I enjoy it.
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #54 on: September 13, 2023, 02:46:38 PM

As long as they don't tell me I'm basically supposed to accept that as true in that universe, yeah. I would have had no problem if Qui Gon was on the outs with the council because he was the equivalent of an anti-vaxxer and his midicholorian dingus was the equivalent of giving people medicine for deworming horses to cure a viral disease.
Abagadro
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12227

Possibly the only user with more posts in the Den than PC/Console Gaming.


Reply #55 on: September 19, 2023, 10:48:19 PM

Some talented folks involved with this show (RIP Ray), but hoo boy is it a freaking mess.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #56 on: September 20, 2023, 02:59:51 AM

I really like Ahsoka herself and the two main villains. I'd have liked to see more of them in something good. Every scene where evil panto witch lady asks if not a jedi dude if he's afraid/sorry/sad, and he shrugs and says a variation on 'sure, I'm not a dick', is great.

But the story is just... boring. Also far too much plot driven by incompetence, especially by apparently experienced commanders that we have already seen being hyper competent in previous shows.

That just isn't Sabine and it isn't Hera. The show is relying too much on us already knowing those characters, but we don't, at all. I get why they really wanted Sabine in this, but having Hera in the show as more than a cameo was probably a mistake - this is Hera's third completely different personality and style of communication, and it's getting a bit weird.

Its watchable fun though.

Idk that if I were Disney I'd feel these shows are worth the 100 million they each supposedly cost. But I'm happy enough paying my Disney sub to watch them.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 03:04:07 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15157


Reply #57 on: September 20, 2023, 05:33:45 PM

I simply can't stand that the New Republic, having gone through all the blood sweat and tears, is now a bunch of fucking idiot bureaucrats who make dumb-baby noises about arresting a commanding officer who has a couple of X-wings as an escort and a famous Force-using former Jedi.

But otherwise, it's a boring mess. Nobody has any vision of the stories they want to tell over there except for the Andor people. There's no discipline or structure or focus. No real talent at keeping things fun or doing taut action or anything in particular. It feels like a shark that has to keep moving so it doesn't die but that's about it. The worst Marvel movies/series (except for Secret Invasion) are considerably better than the average SW production at this point.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #58 on: September 21, 2023, 06:00:12 AM

I think the New Republic descends into slapstick a little too often.

But it seems completely appropriate that it is mostly incompetent.

Sabine being an incompetent idiot is a much bigger problem.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Tebonas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6365


Reply #59 on: September 21, 2023, 12:02:21 PM

Yes, indeed. If Ezra doesn't tell her what a fucking idiot she is as soon as he realized how she invalidated his sacrifice I'm done with this particular strand of Star Wars. That kind of behavior wouldn't even be appropriate if he had f*cked her silly in the past, for a one-sided teenager crush this is abominable.

I love the main baddies and like some other aspects, but Sabine is inexcusable.
Surlyboi
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10962

eat a bag of dicks


Reply #60 on: September 22, 2023, 07:03:07 PM

She didn't just do it for Ezra though. She's also working out her family issues. She wanted to fight the empire during the scourge of Mandalore and Ahsoka kept her from doing that because she would've died. She still hasn't reconciled that whole thing. Balon worked that angle on her. Ezra was only part of the equation.

And seriously? Every Star Wars has been a shitload of bad decisions.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #61 on: September 23, 2023, 02:19:11 AM

Sabine going around as if Ezra is the only living person she has a relationship while spending the entire show interacting with two other characters she has had a much more meaningful relationship with, was weird.

Sabine barely tolerated Ezra until he became more competent at the end of rebels. And then she was far more preoccupied with Mandalorians.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8024


Reply #62 on: September 23, 2023, 09:04:56 AM

Sabine going around as if Ezra is the only living person she has a relationship while spending the entire show interacting with two other characters she has had a much more meaningful relationship with, was weird.

Sabine barely tolerated Ezra until he became more competent at the end of rebels. And then she was far more preoccupied with Mandalorians.

Sabine's and Ezra's relationship hit a point where they were able to have entire conversations without speaking a word. He literally had a message saying he trusted her to find him and knew she would. Their relationship evolved over the show, especially as he got older. Her whole arc after Rebels was clearly to find Ezra, it's the literal last thing we see in Rebels, her leaving with Ahsoka to do it after the war.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Tebonas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6365


Reply #63 on: September 23, 2023, 09:20:18 AM

Not denying that, just saying Ezra should be furious about it as soon as he realizes what happened.
Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19212

sentient yeast infection


WWW
Reply #64 on: September 23, 2023, 09:36:05 AM

So is Rebels the show that you need to have seen in order to care in any way about any of this?  Or do you also need to have seen Clone Wars and/or read the Thrawn books?

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #65 on: September 23, 2023, 10:32:08 AM

Sabine going around as if Ezra is the only living person she has a relationship while spending the entire show interacting with two other characters she has had a much more meaningful relationship with, was weird.

Sabine barely tolerated Ezra until he became more competent at the end of rebels. And then she was far more preoccupied with Mandalorians.

Sabine's and Ezra's relationship hit a point where they were able to have entire conversations without speaking a word. He literally had a message saying he trusted her to find him and knew she would. Their relationship evolved over the show, especially as he got older. Her whole arc after Rebels was clearly to find Ezra, it's the literal last thing we see in Rebels, her leaving with Ahsoka to do it after the war.

I can completely see that she would want to help find Ezra, I just can't buy into the screw everyone and everything in order to do so attitude.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #66 on: September 23, 2023, 10:35:20 AM

So is Rebels the show that you need to have seen in order to care in any way about any of this?  Or do you also need to have seen Clone Wars and/or read the Thrawn books?

No. Having seen rebels makes it worse. It carries forward some of the worst bits of rebels and then presents versions of rebels characters that don't make sense.

I do think you need to have seen some clone wars to appreciate it. Because the most watchable thing in the show is the grown up version of Ahsoka herself.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Phildo
Contributor
Posts: 5872


Reply #67 on: September 23, 2023, 09:55:26 PM

I went back and watched Rebels after the first two episodes of this so I could have some clue who everyone is, and it definitely helped.  But I feel like I'm still missing something, and I haven't found any other references outside of maybe a run of Rebels comics?  No idea when Ahsoka trained and apparently abandoned Sabine, or when Sabine's family died.  But Rebels is definitely the thing to watch for catching up on the majority of the "wait, who is that?" moments.
Tebonas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6365


Reply #68 on: September 23, 2023, 11:50:55 PM

Thats why it isn't critically important to see Rebels. The theoretically most important dynamic (Ahsoka and Sabine) happened almost entirely offscreen between Series. So everybody is at the same footing (confused what has been going on) at the start of this Series.
Phildo
Contributor
Posts: 5872


Reply #69 on: September 24, 2023, 07:41:04 AM

Yeah, but Rebels does clarify all the stuff with Thrawn and Ezra and the space whales.  And Hera and her kid and droid, too.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  TV  |  Topic: Ahsoka (Disney+)  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC