What If...? (Disney+)

[Trippy]

First trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9D0uUKJ5KI

Starts streaming August 11 on Disney+, new episodes Wednesday. 10 episodes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_If...%3F_(TV_series)

[Velorath]

2nd trailer really. I actually think the first one was better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iLVoEg9aLk

[Khaldun]

Yeah, this one almost seemed convoluted/too much.

[01101010]

Have we reached Marvel supersaturation yet? That said, I do prefer the cartoons.

[schild]

Have we reached Marvel supersaturation yet? That said, I do prefer the cartoons.

No

Also god this looks like ass

[eldaec]

So... meh.

I enjoyed the 30 minutes watching it, but sticks so closely to the plot and characterisation we already know that you don't learn anything new about anyone involved.

[Raguel]

So... meh.

I enjoyed the 30 minutes watching it, but sticks so closely to the plot and characterisation we already know that you don't learn anything new about anyone involved.

It's a decent story but felt rushed (imagine trying to cram 1 1/2 hr movie into 30 min; that's what the dialogue sounds like). Also it was really annoying how many callbacks to the dance bit in the original movie there were.

[Threash]

When the hydra stomper fell during the train scene i thought they were going to do a a Rogers = Winter Soldier thing, which would have actually been more interesting.

[Tale]

Have we reached Marvel supersaturation yet?

Years ago as far as I'm concerned.

[Khaldun]

What If? was always kind of a weird comic to begin with. In some ways, it was the real beginning of where Marvel had to reconcile their "our continuity is inviolable and consistent, unlike those guys over at DC" with "hey wait nobody's getting older in our comics and we can't really allow major changes to the status quo without losing value on our core IP". There had been a few alternate-reality things up to that point in Marvel comics--"Counter-Earth" created by the High Evolutionary, which let an alternative evil Reed Richards show up in the FF, and so on. But What If? created a durable story engine that eventually spread like a disease through all of Marvel's storytelling ("Patient Zero" was Claremont's storyline where future Kitty Pryde came back to stop the Brotherhood from killing Senator Kelly--that pretty much guaranteed an endless flood of alternative realities, time travel-branching points, etc.). The only way to tell stories that let time pass and characters really change was the story engine that What If? provided and now they're really stuck to it. I hope this doesn't signify that the MCU is going to get stuck in the same rut--one of its chief pleasures so far is that they've let characters die, age and move on without resetting.

[Khaldun]

Well.

That was kind of mediocre. At best.

It didn't even really get what the decision was that changed everything--it was the German double agent blowing shit up before the experiment. Also it was in another universe Tommy Lee Jones refusing likeness rights, that changed a lot of things. Also where the hell did the tentacle monster come from? Did the Red Skull accidentally summon his last browser tab or something?

[Threash]

Well.

That was kind of mediocre. At best.

It didn't even really get what the decision was that changed everything--it was the German double agent blowing shit up before the experiment. Also it was in another universe Tommy Lee Jones refusing likeness rights, that changed a lot of things. Also where the hell did the tentacle monster come from? Did the Red Skull accidentally summon his last browser tab or something?

The tesseract is the space stone, it can do shit like that i assume. I agree, this was a boring one to start with, gimme some real weird shit like the zombie stuff.

[Velorath]

I can see the rumors of Captain Carter popping up later being possible/probable based on this episode.

[MahrinSkel]

We know really weird cross-continuity shit is going to happen in Spiderman, Captain Carter in Multiverse of Madness is like a 3 to Doc Ock's 7.

--Dave

[Khaldun]

Which one is America Chavez supposed to show up? I think you might see Captain Carter as a brief cameo. I would be surprised to see her or any What If? iteration for much longer.

Honestly I wish this hadn't been so unimaginatively glued to the plotline for Captain America. Why are all those guys captives in an ominous Hydra base if the Red Skull and Arnim Zola aren't there with the tesseract? Why the raid on the train when that was so specifically cued to the Hydra-superweapons plot line in the film? I mean, SHIT, they could have actually had Captain Carter punch Hitler (I know, I know, the main reason you don't want Nazis for real in your movies is German laws on depicting Nazis, but still).

[Ashamanchill]

Have we reached Marvel supersaturation yet?

Years ago as far as I'm concerned.

Oh god yes.

But yeah, that's my 1 cent. Otherwise enjoy the show.

Also where the hell did the tentacle monster come from? Did the Red Skull accidentally summon his last browser tab or something?

That villain would get me to watch. He could summon a swarm of 4chan neckbeards to, I dunno, try to seize the government or something. Nah. Too unrealistic.

[eldaec]

MCU decided hydra is headed up by some interdimensional monster in AoS.

I can see the rumors of Captain Carter popping up later being possible/probable based on this episode.

The guys running this have already said they plan to revisit captain Carter and that these episodes are canon within the multiverse that is explained in loki and Dr strange 2.

One of them even suggested he could see captain Carter making it to live action movies - though I'm sceptical of that.

[Rendakor]

MCU decided hydra is headed up by some interdimensional monster in AoS.

They really decided Hydra was ruled by an actual, mythical hydra?

[Sky]

We know really weird cross-continuity shit is going to happen in Spiderman, Captain Carter in Multiverse of Madness is like a 3 to Doc Ock's 7.

--Dave

Superior Spider-Man is like a 11 to those (and I'm a fan of Peg Carter, but they wrapped that story up beautifully already). If only he weren't in Sony jail, it would be a great D+ show, enough good stuff for a mini-series or single season, a longer form 'movie'.

How about a Superior Spidey/Lady Deadpool Marvel Team-Up? :D Team-Up could actually be another nice property to develop, actually. Kind of bridge the current solo hero movies and the giant team movies, like a slightly more formalized and taergeted Falcon/Winter Soldier kinda thing.

[Khaldun]

Deadpool 3 would be hilarious as yet another multiversal romp--like, he only gets to the MCU at the very end and after he arrives he knows he isn't from there and will be constantly fourth-wall joking about it from that point on. Maybe even pay Warner Brothers for a quick scene of him trapped briefly in Green Lantern where he realizes that he just created a different timeline where Channing Tatum played Green Lantern and it was a huge hit.

[eldaec]

MCU decided hydra is headed up by some interdimensional monster in AoS.

They really decided Hydra was ruled by an actual, mythical hydra?

More a kind of weird lovecraftian god. The monster was a 'champion of hydra' that would be completely reasonable for AoS season 3 hydra to have created.

[eldaec]

Well.

That was kind of mediocre. At best.

It didn't even really get what the decision was that changed everything--it was the German double agent blowing shit up before the experiment.

No - it was Carter not returning to the booth.

That meant she spotted the bomb, the German guy pointed a gun at her, and Human Torch got out of the thingy to help, and then got shot.

[Velorath]

Which one is America Chavez supposed to show up?

Dr. Strange 2 supposedly.

[Khaldun]

Eh, it's still really the German agent changing his actions that makes the difference.

The best What Ifs in the comic were ones that really stayed tight to the premise. The very first one was terrific--Sue has an impulse to invite Spider-Man into the FF, the Fantastic Five succeed wildly in taking down Spider-Man's early baddies AND the FF's early baddies, but Sue starts to feel (for good reason) like a fifth wheel and when Namor puts the moves on her, she goes with it. It uses all the raw material of that era of Marvel but it's not afraid of the story ending up some place notably different. Or the one where Spider-Man stops the burglar, Ben Parker lives, and Peter becomes a morally vacuous Hollywood star who gets J. Jonah Jameson fired and turns JJJ's life into despair. This one had a fun focal point: Captain Carter! but it kept wanting to come back to the established story beats from the movie with very few changes (until Generic-Tentacle-God shows up).

[HaemishM]

It didn't even really get what the decision was that changed everything--it was the German double agent blowing shit up before the experiment. Also it was in another universe Tommy Lee Jones refusing likeness rights, that changed a lot of things. Also where the hell did the tentacle monster come from? Did the Red Skull accidentally summon his last browser tab or something?

The decision of Carter to stay in the room instead of watch it from the booth is what changed - she was close enough to see the German spy start his attack.

As for the tentacle monster, I assume it's either the monster from the anti-verse that the Guardians fought off in their comics (when Peter Quill and Nova got trapped in what is essentially a Cthulhu-verse) or its the monster that Hydra was trying to summon in the Agents of SHIELD series.

[Teleku]

It didn't even really get what the decision was that changed everything--it was the German double agent blowing shit up before the experiment. Also it was in another universe Tommy Lee Jones refusing likeness rights, that changed a lot of things. Also where the hell did the tentacle monster come from? Did the Red Skull accidentally summon his last browser tab or something?

The decision of Carter to stay in the room instead of watch it from the booth is what changed - she was close enough to see the German spy start his attack.

Yeah, they focused on that in the episode as being the point of divergence, but that's honestly them screwing up.  The major thing that changed that allowed her to become Captain Carter was the German guy blowing up the lab before they transformed Steve.  In this episode, absolutely nothing she did staying behind seems to have caused him to blow up the bomb earlier.  He didn't notice her or anything.  He just for some reason decided to blow it up early, unlike in the movie, and THAT is the big change.  It's either sloppy writing or sloppy editing.

[Khaldun]

Can't be the goobers from the Rift in the comics--that's a million miles from the MCU. Agents of SHIELD has faded entirely from my consciousness--HYDRA was trying to summon an Elder God/Shuma Gorath/Hentai Thing?

[MahrinSkel]

Except it is animation, where it's all writing and zero editing.

--Dave

[eldaec]

The premise is Peggy got juiced.

So tbh it doesn't matter unless you go and watch them side by side.

This wasn't the reason it felt a bit flat.

One hopeful point is this did look like a fixable pilot. They needed to take more risks and work out what new viewpoint the story is giving us - but the whole thing was competently put together and entirely watchable.

[DevilsAdvocate25]

Eh, it's still really the German agent changing his actions that makes the difference.

The best What Ifs in the comic were ones that really stayed tight to the premise. The very first one was terrific--Sue has an impulse to invite Spider-Man into the FF, the Fantastic Five succeed wildly in taking down Spider-Man's early baddies AND the FF's early baddies, but Sue starts to feel (for good reason) like a fifth wheel and when Namor puts the moves on her, she goes with it. It uses all the raw material of that era of Marvel but it's not afraid of the story ending up some place notably different. Or the one where Spider-Man stops the burglar, Ben Parker lives, and Peter becomes a morally vacuous Hollywood star who gets J. Jonah Jameson fired and turns JJJ's life into despair. This one had a fun focal point: Captain Carter! but it kept wanting to come back to the established story beats from the movie with very few changes (until Generic-Tentacle-God shows up).

My favorite What If? was What if the X-Men lost Inferno? Inferno was my first introduction to X-Men comics and the What If? for it was amazing.

To stay on topic, this was pretty good for a first episode, although I didn't quite understand why she was Captain Carter and not Captain America or Captain Britain. I guess she didn't get to do the USO stuff because her boss was a misogynist and thus never got the publicity that inspired the Captain America name?

[eldaec]

Also, I suspect, because Captain Carter sounds cool.

[Khaldun]

I assumed she wasn't Captain Britain because that's a separate IP and you don't cross the streams.

[Trippy]

That Disney now owns but hasn't formerly introduced into the MCU and this series probably isn't the best place to do it.

[Surlyboi]

Fuck the haters, this was killer.

[HaemishM]

Can't be the goobers from the Rift in the comics--that's a million miles from the MCU. Agents of SHIELD has faded entirely from my consciousness--HYDRA was trying to summon an Elder God/Shuma Gorath/Hentai Thing?

Yes. There was a sect of Hyrda that predated World War 2 by thousands of years that was trying to summon this thing. Hydra splintered somewhat on that point so that there were some more science-y branches and then this branch which was led by Powers Boothe.