WandaVision

[eldaec]

I wasn't a big fan of 5.

I respected it. It did a really good job of sustaining discomfort, but I needed some kind of payoff. Also not having Wanda's true PoV while spending so long with her is becoming irritating.

Probably an episode that will feel better in a binge.

I'm definitely assuming Wanda can't be fully in control, because that was too much moustache twirling.

Do think I'll like it more in retrospect.

[Threash]

I liked the little almost fourth wall breaking power level talk, even though they ignored that Captain Marvel fought Thanos when he had all the stones and Wanda when he had none.

[Teleku]

The whole thing about any of them having a chance at Thanos was silly, and Captain Marvel putting up much of a fight was just the writers trying to justify her existence because they had nothing else for her to do.  She got partially charged by some power by one of the stones.  While Thanos was wielding all off the actual stones.  He should have vaporized her with a flick of the wrist.  But the strength of a characters power when fighting another in the MCU has always been extremely variable based on how convenient it is.

Anyways, just binged this.  I certainly give them credit for taking a pretty wild concept and running with it for a major production.  I've enjoyed it, and am interested in where they go from here.  When Wanda says near the end that 'I don't know how this started' and 'I didn't do that' when the doorbell rings and you know who appears, I think it's obvious somebody else is playing her.  I mean, could still just be that her mind has totally fractured and gone nuts, but I think there is a villain in here somewhere.

Also, I know some others said the same, but to reiterate about age and these sitcoms.  Wanda was born 6 years after me, and I grew up watching all this shit on Nick at Night, so I get the references.  She was born in Eastern Europe, and having lived there for several years and dated several women, I can 100% tell you she was watching these random reruns as a kid in the 90's.

[Threash]

Anyways, just binged this.  I certainly give them credit for taking a pretty wild concept and running with it for a major production.  I've enjoyed it, and am interested in where they go from here.  When Wanda says near the end that 'I don't know how this started' and 'I didn't do that' when the doorbell rings and you know who appears, I think it's obvious somebody else is playing her.  I mean, could still just be that her mind has totally fractured and gone nuts, but I think there is a villain in here somewhere.

Yeah, her denial seemed completely genuine, and the timing was entirely too convenient like Vision thought. Also, she wouldn't "recast" someone she cared about. Agnes can break character without any interference and keeps dropping little hints.

[MahrinSkel]

I expected it, and yet I still did not see that coming.

--Dave

[Raguel]

I think that bit was perfect. Holy shit.

I'm sure we are talking about different things.

My problem with this episode is everything surrounding the director of SWORD.


At least one person on the internet didn't realize that the title of the episode was a spoiler for its tone.

[Khaldun]

Regarding the director of SWORD, um, come on:


I think more generally, I'm fully convinced now that:



I'm also thinking:

[Teleku]

Considering how they keep emphasizing the (potentially) dangerous cosmic waves being interwoven in this, yeah, pretty sure some burst of that will hit Monica.  I actually had no idea she was an existing character (though probably should have guessed that).

[Abagadro]

I'm also thinking:

The inability to scan her suggests that is accurate and may have already happened.

[Ceryse]

The vibe I got from the testing scene with Monica was more that they weren't actually doing the tests to have an excuse to keep her out of the way, not that there was actually a problem taking them.

[Abagadro]

They showed one of the scans/x-rays and it was totally washed out to be just white.

[Riggswolfe]

My problem with this episode is everything surrounding the director of SWORD.


At least one person on the internet didn't realize that the title of the episode was a spoiler for its tone.

I saw these on a Youtube video so can't claim any kind of credit for them sadly but there may be a very good reason for how he is acting:


I will say, I ended episode 4 pretty damn sure Wanda was behind it all. As of this episode, I now think she only thinks she caused it and the people who believed another villain is behind it are correct. I believed her when she said she couldn't control the whole town all the time doing their little playacting. And she seemed genuinely surprised by the moment at the end.

Edit: And wow did I miss a massive thing about that ending cameo and feel silly for it.

[MahrinSkel]

When she did her rewind thing on the agent in the beekeeper suit...where did he go?

--Dave

[Threash]

One theory about the "recast" is that he was changed to become period appropriate like the clothes or sword drone.

[Khaldun]

Monica Rambeau, just to be really headachey in that comic-book way, originally took the name Captain Marvel after becoming super-powered because the male Captain Marvel was dead and the Carol Danvers Captain Marvel ran through the names Ms. Marvel, Binary and then Warbird before claiming Captain Marvel for herself. By that time Rambeau had renamed herself Photon and then later after that Spectrum.

She's kind of a C-list character--she had a fairly long stint in the Avengers, briefly was the leader of the team under really bad circumstances, and then was pushed off to the side for a while. She had a fun if played-for-laughs run in the brief and brilliant Nextwave series and then showed up in a post-Secret Wars series that was for super-heavy-hitter characters doing cosmic-level things. I think presently she's depowered but that never lasts long in comics--given how closely the comics now follow the MCU, they'll surely power her up again and rejigger her history some probably too. (In the comics, she's the daughter of a New Orleans firefighter, no personal connection to Carol Danvers.)

Anyhoo, yeah, I think it's right to guess that she's already powered up, just doesn't know it yet.

[Velorath]

Edit: And wow did I miss a massive thing about that ending cameo and feel silly for it.

[Khaldun]

Yeah. At this point, we know:


So:

[eldaec]

When she did her rewind thing on the agent in the beekeeper suit...where did he go?

--Dave

He was incorporated as a character in the sitcoms. Like Monica.

[Surlyboi]

Also

[Surlyboi]

The whole thing about any of them having a chance at Thanos was silly, and Captain Marvel putting up much of a fight was just the writers trying to justify her existence because they had nothing else for her to do.  She got partially charged by some power by one of the stones.  While Thanos was wielding all off the actual stones.  He should have vaporized her with a flick of the wrist.  But the strength of a characters power when fighting another in the MCU has always been extremely variable based on how convenient it is.

Thanos wasn't wielding the stones, they were fighting for the gauntlet. That's why she beat him to a standstill until he grabbed one of the stones out of the gauntlet they were fighting over and hit her with it. That's the point they're making. Her being "partially charged" was enough to take on Thanos sans gauntlet. Wanda was also charged by a stone and then was in the vicinity of a second when it released a bunch of energy. She could be off the charts at this point.

[Khaldun]

Yeah, exactly. We don't really have any explanation for Thanos' pre-Stones power, but it's plainly more than an Asgardian except maybe Odin and Hela--but in that battle, he's not powered by any of the Stones while Wanda and Captain Marvel ARE.

[schild]

i just watched every episode in one sitting

really impressed that they're using a tv show on a streaming service to trial balloon a complete reset to the structure of the mcu

also it's basically perfect television in a variety I didn't know people could even make anymore? 

[Threash]

Yeah, exactly. We don't really have any explanation for Thanos' pre-Stones power, but it's plainly more than an Asgardian except maybe Odin and Hela--but in that battle, he's not powered by any of the Stones while Wanda and Captain Marvel ARE.

I don't know what you guys are remember but Thanos had the gauntlet and all the stones when Captain Marvel fought him.

[Khaldun]

Yeah, but he clearly didn't have possession of it,  (aka "wielding") if you know what I mean--it clearly takes some degree of concentration and focus to use it. Look at how he manages to get to the Snap in Infinity War after Thor embeds the axe in his chest, he doesn't just think it, he has to really focus on doing it. Further evidence on this? He doesn't even know that Stark has taken the Stones until he looks at the gauntlet after the Snap doesn't work.

[Raguel]

Yeah, exactly. We don't really have any explanation for Thanos' pre-Stones power, but it's plainly more than an Asgardian except maybe Odin and Hela--but in that battle, he's not powered by any of the Stones while Wanda and Captain Marvel ARE.

I don't know what you guys are remember but Thanos had the gauntlet and all the stones when Captain Marvel fought him.

His hand has to be closed in order to use the stones. Doctor Strange whispers this to his cloak I believe in IW. In Endgame CM forces his hand open; Thanos then takes one stone out (power?) switches it to his other gauntlet, then punches CM.

[Sky]

Just make sure he has both feet in bounds and makes an Infinity Stone move to establish possession.

 

[Raguel]

Just make sure he has both feet in bounds and makes an Infinity Stone move to establish possession.

 

I'm not the one writing this stuff. 

[Teleku]

The whole thing about any of them having a chance at Thanos was silly, and Captain Marvel putting up much of a fight was just the writers trying to justify her existence because they had nothing else for her to do.  She got partially charged by some power by one of the stones.  While Thanos was wielding all off the actual stones.  He should have vaporized her with a flick of the wrist.  But the strength of a characters power when fighting another in the MCU has always been extremely variable based on how convenient it is.

Thanos wasn't wielding the stones, they were fighting for the gauntlet. That's why she beat him to a standstill until he grabbed one of the stones out of the gauntlet they were fighting over and hit her with it. That's the point they're making. Her being "partially charged" was enough to take on Thanos sans gauntlet. Wanda was also charged by a stone and then was in the vicinity of a second when it released a bunch of energy. She could be off the charts at this point.

Fair enough, I guess you can interpret many ways.  And yeah, I guess in keeping with the power levels, Feige has already changed his mind and said Wanda is the most powerful hero, instead of Captain Marvel.  So your point about the energy could also be true.

[Khaldun]

It is, unfortunately in my view, consistent with the comics, where Wanda has been put into the "unstable female heroes powerful enough to change the universe and hence need to be sympathetically murdered by everyone else" category. There's an MCU justification for it (Infinity Stones!) but it doesn't end well. Compared to say, Reed Richards who in the comics has at times conspired with his entire multiversal legion of counterparts to change multiversal reality in a way nobody would really agree with (this merits understanding and empathy from his friends) or Doctor Strange who despite several bouts of severe mental instability and willingness to consign friends to damnation is still the go-to guy when folks need someone to figure out a mysterious universal problem.

Nobody ever says "we all gotta kill Strange" but they do say "we all gotta kill Jean Grey and Wanda".

[MahrinSkel]

For the record, Feige never said Captain Mary Sue was the most powerful. That was the Russos'.

--Dave

Edit: Obviously women can't be trusted with Absolute Power.

[Trippy]

Feige did say that, though that may no longer be true.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/kevin-feige-captian-marvel-mcu-powerful-hero/

[Teleku]

Yeah, that's what I meant by him making a u turn.

Regardless, I think discussing power levels in absolutes is dumb, especially coming from the studio exec.  I believe they were catching so much flak for not having a major stand alone female Hero that they sort of went all in on hyping up Captain Marvel to get headlines (she's the strongest hero!  She can do anything!  See, we literally made the strongest women ever!  We aren't sexist!).  And once they do that, now they're stuck having to answer that question every time something changes in the MCU.  So now Wanda is actually the strongest, Captain Marvel is just an also run has been.  And then they're going to have to answer that question again the next time some new hero appears.  It's just stupid and they should leave that kind of nerdwank slapfight to very online nerds.

[eldaec]

Feige did say that, though that may no longer be true.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/kevin-feige-captian-marvel-mcu-powerful-hero/

I got the impression this was a silly answer to a silly question, not based upon rigorous data analytics.

[Riggswolfe]

Feige did say that, though that may no longer be true.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/kevin-feige-captian-marvel-mcu-powerful-hero/

I got the impression this was a silly answer to a silly question, not based upon rigorous data analytics.

I have to agree with one of the commenters to that article. Scarlet Witch is a glass cannon. Extremely powerful but if you manage to blindside her even someone with a pistol could drop her. But if you shoot Captain Marvel with a pistol or hell, a missile, all you'll do is piss her off.

That said, purely based on offensive potential, Scarlet Witch easily wins in my opinion. Which is interesting as they're both powered by Infinity Stones so you'd think they'd be roughly equal.

[Threash]

I have to agree with one of the commenters to that article. Scarlet Witch is a glass cannon. Extremely powerful but if you manage to blindside her even someone with a pistol could drop her. But if you shoot Captain Marvel with a pistol or hell, a missile, all you'll do is piss her off.

Which is basically what happened in Endgame, a nearby hit from the bombardment wiped out Wanda but Captain Marvel tanked the whole volley with her face.