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Author Topic: Coronavirus / COVID-19  (Read 250970 times)
Sir T
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Reply #735 on: May 25, 2020, 02:06:48 PM

April 6th. Trump: If under 100,000 Americans die from coronavirus we've done a good job

Hic sunt dracones.
schild
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Reply #736 on: May 25, 2020, 02:16:44 PM

It's becoming pretty clear that warm weather is not going to cause this one's infection rate to drop all that drastically.

at all

it's not going to drop at all
jgsugden
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Reply #737 on: May 25, 2020, 04:02:18 PM

It's becoming pretty clear that warm weather is not going to cause this one's infection rate to drop all that drastically.
MOst of the transmission seems to be taking inside with poor ventilation.  Not all of it, but those are the environments where the superspreaders are doing the most damage.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Trippy
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Reply #738 on: May 25, 2020, 04:43:36 PM

It's becoming pretty clear that warm weather is not going to cause this one's infection rate to drop all that drastically.
MOst of the transmission seems to be taking inside with poor ventilation.  Not all of it, but those are the environments where the superspreaders are doing the most damage.
I think I've mentioned this before but ventilation -- i.e. circulating air -- may make things worse. E.g.:

COVID-19 Outbreak Associated with Air Conditioning in Restaurant, Guangzhou, China, 2020

This crop of the included figure is the interesting, tl;dr part:



A1 is "patient zero" in this case. Notice how customers both downwind *and* upwind of A1 (relative to the AC) got infected, but nobody "laterally" from A1 airflow-wise at tables E or F got infected. They swabbed the inside of the air conditioner itself and didn't find the virus there so it's unlikely table C got infected that way. It seems more likely there was circulating airflow because of the glass wall next to table B bouncing air back towards table C.

In any event eat at restaurants even with spaced apart tables at your own risk if you don't have antibodies yet as the virus may be able to travel much further than 6 feet in some circumstances.

Trippy
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Reply #739 on: May 25, 2020, 05:04:03 PM

One thing to watch is that a lot more of the cases popping up in the global South are people under 40. That could mean a lot of things, some of them just an indicator of general poor health in the under-40s, some of them that a lot of developing nations skew hard to younger populations (so that it is not per capita more under 40) or it could mean the virus is continuing to mutate or demonstrate new infection patterns.
Or it could just be more people are being tested. If the hospitalization rate of those under 40 is going up, that would be something to worry about.
HaemishM
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Reply #740 on: May 25, 2020, 07:09:39 PM

I looked at some charts for Mississippi's cases and most of the total cases we have come from the under 50 crowd, but most of the deaths are the over 60 crowd. I'm going to put those numbers up to the "our people under 50 are being fucking retarded and think they are invincible" crowd.

Chimpy
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Reply #741 on: May 25, 2020, 07:22:26 PM

I looked at some charts for Mississippi's cases and most of the total cases we have come from the under 50 crowd, but most of the deaths are the over 60 crowd. I'm going to put those numbers up to the "our people under 50 are being fucking retarded from Mississippi and can't think they are invincible" crowd.

Fixed to be more in line with most people's estimation  why so serious?

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
jgsugden
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Reply #742 on: May 25, 2020, 07:51:19 PM

CDC's write up of the South Korea tracking in an office and the restaurant situation above.  A ventilation system that slowly pulls the virus along a path is bad.  A series of open windows is a different story. 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274_article - Office Spread
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article - Restaurant Spread

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
Trippy
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Reply #743 on: May 25, 2020, 07:52:42 PM

I looked at some charts for Mississippi's cases and most of the total cases we have come from the under 50 crowd, but most of the deaths are the over 60 crowd. I'm going to put those numbers up to the "our people under 50 are being fucking retarded and think they are invincible" crowd.
Mississippi's cases by age group matches pretty closely the state's population by age group. So pretty much all adult age groups are behaving equally bad or good, depending on your perspective.

Note the age groups aren't quite the same between the charts.





https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14,0,420.html

https://acl.gov/sites/default/files/programs/2016-11/Mississippi%20Epi%20Profile%20Final.pdf
Draegan
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Reply #744 on: May 26, 2020, 02:09:03 PM

Can a smart medical person help me out here and tell me what risks are at factor. I'm from NJ and my mother (also in NJ) wants to visit the grand kids for a few days and I'm trying to figure out if it's safe.

10-14 days ago, my father was feeling ill, had a fever, and went in to a local emergent care facility. My mother got an Anti-Body test from Quest Diagnostics (SARS CoV 2 Serology, SARS CoV 2 AB IGG) and it came back positive. My father went into the hospital with an infection and was released a few days later. He tested negative in the hospital for the virus.

My father just got an antibody test, same as my mother, and tested positive as well, the results came back today. (They are currently doing just fine)

If my mother were to come to my home what are the risks? Is it safe for her and also with my father (who wouldn't be visiting)? Is it safe for me and my family?

Personally, I've been basically quarantined from home for the most part. In the last 2 weeks I've been inside a grocery store once if that matters at all.

Can anyone help explain the tests, their accuracy, and what it means for people around them?
Khaldun
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Reply #745 on: May 26, 2020, 02:32:02 PM

Here's the WaPo piece on higher death rates for 20-49 in Brazil, Mexico and other developing countries: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/coronavirus-brazil-killing-young-developing-world/2020/05/22/f76d83e8-99e9-11ea-ad79-eef7cd734641_story.html  The interpretation seems to be that it's greater medical precariousness with an unhealthier population on the whole therefore more people who are vulnerable. One of the complicated things about a lot of developed economies, including the US, is that while they may have a lot of obesity-connected ailments including in relatively poor communities that have poor access to fresh non-processed food, on balance those ailments may still leave the overall population healthier or more resilient to many other illnesses than societies where many grow up with food insufficiency. It's the basic argument that a lot of demographic historians have made about global population increases after 1750 or so--that the availability of more calories to the whole population in wealthier societies, even if the calories were nutritionally 'bad' (e.g., sugar) let more people survive the first five years of life and gave them more basic metabolic energy for the development of their immune systems.

Waiting to see what what the experts say on Draegan's query--I wouldn't want to venture an opinion plus I'm sort of curious for my own sake.
Gimfain
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Reply #746 on: May 26, 2020, 03:04:24 PM

In brazil only 9-10% are 65 or older, in western countries 20% are 65 or older. There's likely to be an even bigger difference for 80+ so the statistical differences might just be due to differences in age distribution.

When you ask for a miracle, you have to be prepared to believe in it or you'll miss it when it comes
Trippy
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Reply #747 on: May 26, 2020, 04:13:40 PM

Can a smart medical person help me out here and tell me what risks are at factor. I'm from NJ and my mother (also in NJ) wants to visit the grand kids for a few days and I'm trying to figure out if it's safe.

10-14 days ago, my father was feeling ill, had a fever, and went in to a local emergent care facility. My mother got an Anti-Body test from Quest Diagnostics (SARS CoV 2 Serology, SARS CoV 2 AB IGG) and it came back positive. My father went into the hospital with an infection and was released a few days later. He tested negative in the hospital for the virus.

My father just got an antibody test, same as my mother, and tested positive as well, the results came back today. (They are currently doing just fine)

If my mother were to come to my home what are the risks? Is it safe for her and also with my father (who wouldn't be visiting)? Is it safe for me and my family?

Personally, I've been basically quarantined from home for the most part. In the last 2 weeks I've been inside a grocery store once if that matters at all.

Can anyone help explain the tests, their accuracy, and what it means for people around them?
NOT A DOCTOR. DON'T LISTEN TO RANDOMS ON INTERNET FOR MEDICAL ADVICE.

That being said it sounds like there's still a risk your mother may be infectious since she hasn't been tested for the virus itself -- i.e. she may be an asymptomatic carrier. If there's a no-referral PCR testing facility near her that would be one way to check but you would want her to be tested at least twice (like one or two days apart) to reduce the chances of a false-negative result. Or you could have her wait 14 days before coming to visit.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/if-youve-been-exposed-to-the-coronavirus

Quote
For how long after I am infected will I continue to be contagious? At what point in my illness will I be most contagious?
[...]
Most people with coronavirus who have symptoms will no longer be contagious by 10 days after symptoms resolve. People who test positive for the virus but never develop symptoms over the following 10 days after testing are probably no longer contagious, but again there are documented exceptions. So some experts are still recommending 14 days of isolation.

One of the main problems with general rules regarding contagion and transmission of this coronavirus is the marked differences in how it behaves in different individuals. That's why everyone needs to wear a mask and keep a physical distance of at least six feet.

Here is a more "scientific" way to determine if you are no longer contagious: have two nasal-throat tests or saliva tests 24 hours apart that are both negative for the virus.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 04:15:38 PM by Trippy »
Draegan
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Reply #748 on: May 26, 2020, 04:21:24 PM

If my parents indeed had something, my father had a sinus infection he was treated for back in early April or so.

My mother's test was from 5/8.
Father mike
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Reply #749 on: May 26, 2020, 04:21:33 PM

Can anyone help explain the tests, their accuracy, and what it means for people around them?

My wife is an MD.  Here's her take.

The anitbody tests are extremely unreliable.  Corona viruses are an incredibly prevalent class of virus -- the common cold is in the Corona class.  The current antibody tests don't have the specificity to single out COVID-19 reliably, so you get a LOT of false positives.  She didn't have info on the specific tests you listed, but she said that her practice doesn't feel that the antibody tests are accurate enough to use for diagnostic purposes.

The PCR test can tell you if you currently have it, but it can generate false negatives and it's not a rapid-read type test (you have to send it off and wait a few days).

As far as the risks ... I don't have a great answer.  But she said she wouldn't make plans based around the results of an antibody test.

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
Trippy
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Reply #750 on: May 26, 2020, 04:31:53 PM

If my parents indeed had something, my father had a sinus infection he was treated for back in early April or so.

My mother's test was from 5/8.
So if we assume your mother was/is an asymptomatic carrier and was contagious starting on that date then it's been more than 14 days since then. However my recommendation would still be to have her get some PCR tests done.
Draegan
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Reply #751 on: May 26, 2020, 04:59:13 PM

Can anyone help explain the tests, their accuracy, and what it means for people around them?

My wife is an MD.  Here's her take.

The anitbody tests are extremely unreliable.  Corona viruses are an incredibly prevalent class of virus -- the common cold is in the Corona class.  The current antibody tests don't have the specificity to single out COVID-19 reliably, so you get a LOT of false positives.  She didn't have info on the specific tests you listed, but she said that her practice doesn't feel that the antibody tests are accurate enough to use for diagnostic purposes.

The PCR test can tell you if you currently have it, but it can generate false negatives and it's not a rapid-read type test (you have to send it off and wait a few days).

As far as the risks ... I don't have a great answer.  But she said she wouldn't make plans based around the results of an antibody test.

That's the general thought process with antibody tests in general, but this is a very good test out of all of them as far as I can tell reading different opinions.
Father mike
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Reply #752 on: May 26, 2020, 05:18:15 PM

Like I said, my wife doesn't have any info on that specific test.  It may be a very accurate test, but the information sources she relies upon haven't singled it out as being accurate enough to rely on, yet.

I would like to thank Vladimir Putin for ensuring that every member of the NPR news staff has had to say "Pussy Riot" on the air multiple times.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #753 on: May 26, 2020, 06:08:47 PM

Like I said, my wife doesn't have any info on that specific test.  It may be a very accurate test, but the information sources she relies upon haven't singled it out as being accurate enough to rely on, yet.
UCSF and UC Berkeley have done some experiments on this, using known-positive and known-negative samples (from before COVID was a thing in humans). Quest had one of the better performances, with >99% specificity (1 false positive on 150 samples) and 90% sensitivity. Of the rapid tests, it was the lowest false positives.

https://covidtestingproject.org/

Pre-print of the report at the link.

--Dave

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Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #754 on: May 29, 2020, 10:41:39 AM

We had a meeting yesterday to say that staff will be back in the building on Monday as NY enters Phase 2. Last night Cuomo announced that NY would stay in Phase 1 for another 2 weeks (and our county exec had a public meltdown). Then, disturbingly, our director sent an email saying that the system directors were of a consensus that we should've been Phase 1 anyway and we would continue to open as a retail entity.

It's moot, since Cuomo backpedaled...but holy shit. The boss, who had been really compliant and ahead of the curve, just pulled a redstate move. Since the system directors look to her for guidance, I feel they all 'complied' because she has been so on point thus far.

Now we're questioning everything she's doing going forward. It's amazing how the fatigue is hitting people in really weird ways, even a couple weeks ago she would never go against the stated guidelines. And we have no choice but to go along with what she decides, even if it's 'fuck it, we're phase 1 because I think so'.

Which means that now, outside of total lockdown again, we'll be open no matter what. Fiancee is having a meltdown, her mom is doing poorly in isolation (her dementia is progressing extremely rapidly to the point she totaled her car this week), and now her stress burden includes being forced back to work despite anything the governor says.

Shit is getting crazier. I'm going to stop thinking it can't get crazier now, when even the previously sane people are getting chaotic.
Cyrrex
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Reply #755 on: May 29, 2020, 11:08:46 AM

Meanwhile, here in my worklplace in DK, where we have days now where nobody at all dies, I have been informed that I will be working from home probably until there is a vaccine.

This is why America is fucked.  You are not even within the ballpark of taking this seriously and never have been.  On the whole.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Polysorbate80
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Reply #756 on: May 29, 2020, 11:52:43 AM

.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 03:37:55 AM by Polysorbate80 »

“Why the fuck would you ... ?” is like 80% of the conversation with Poly — Chimpy
Hawkbit
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Reply #757 on: May 29, 2020, 12:12:38 PM

My wife works for a large insurance firm now. Management worried when all this went down that employees wouldn’t be productive. Three months into lockdown now they’re starting to not renew leases in some cities, telling employees to work from home permanently. Sounds like they’re going to funnel the rent costs into a tech buy to help wfh. I’m sure they’re pocketing extra money too.
01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #758 on: May 29, 2020, 12:28:41 PM

My wife works for a large insurance firm now. Management worried when all this went down that employees wouldn’t be productive. Three months into lockdown now they’re starting to not renew leases in some cities, telling employees to work from home permanently. Sounds like they’re going to funnel the rent costs into a tech buy to help wfh. I’m sure they’re pocketing extra money too.

Wife and I discussed this as well since UPMC is putting out email surveys "exploring" the WFH model. Already talks of not renewing leases and how that is going to turn downtown Pittsburgh into a ghost town and at the same time making UPMC richer. They already have a tech allocation that might get a bump but nothing like it should. And you damn well know it is not going to increased wages.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #759 on: May 29, 2020, 12:48:00 PM

My wife works for a large insurance firm now. Management worried when all this went down that employees wouldn’t be productive. Three months into lockdown now they’re starting to not renew leases in some cities, telling employees to work from home permanently. Sounds like they’re going to funnel the rent costs into a tech buy to help wfh. I’m sure they’re pocketing extra money too.

Wife and I discussed this as well since UPMC is putting out email surveys "exploring" the WFH model. Already talks of not renewing leases and how that is going to turn downtown Pittsburgh into a ghost town and at the same time making UPMC richer. They already have a tech allocation that might get a bump but nothing like it should. And you damn well know it is not going to increased wages.
You'll make it up in commuting costs. Not to mention having that time back. I should write a Medium piece on staging for wfh offices. Where to put the camera, how to get clear sound without letting everyone hear what's happening off camera, what to have in the background, etc.

--Dave

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jgsugden
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Reply #760 on: May 29, 2020, 12:55:53 PM

I don't see it.  WFH is possible, but there are far too many inefficiencies .  At some point, there will be a swing to bring people back to offices, whether that is after safety improves, after rents drop, or just when the business identifies the hidden costs of wide ranging WFH.

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
slog
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Reply #761 on: May 29, 2020, 12:57:21 PM

Meanwhile, here in my worklplace in DK, where we have days now where nobody at all dies, I have been informed that I will be working from home probably until there is a vaccine.

This is why America is fucked.  You are not even within the ballpark of taking this seriously and never have been.  On the whole.

Sacrificing the old and the sick, while terrible, will not stop anything.

Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #762 on: May 29, 2020, 01:14:47 PM

 swamp poop

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
HaemishM
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Reply #763 on: May 29, 2020, 01:40:57 PM

Just keep fucking that chicken, slog.

I've been informed that many of us will be back at work on a staggered schedule starting Monday. My dept. will be one week of Mon/Wed/Fri followed by a week of Tue/Thu (half the employees will be there on 3 days one week then 2 days the next) so that we are at 50% normal staffing at least for our division. The days we aren't in the office will still be officially work from home days.

Of course, I live in a state where we "quarantined" but most people don't follow guidelines like wearing masks or social distancing, have been going to church constantly and were gleefully having giant parties this past weekend. We all gon' die.

Sky
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Reply #764 on: May 29, 2020, 02:57:33 PM

That's the ironic thing, the virus isn't bad here yet, but it's as bad as it's been since this started. So...we go back to work despite nothing really changing, the temp testing is a joke. At least our hospitals should be able to handle it with a cluster of small/medium cities with university facilities.

At this point everything has been so colossally mishandled that I've come back to the 'save the economy' side, because we're sure as fuck not buying much time or making anything safer.
Khaldun
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Reply #765 on: May 29, 2020, 03:10:15 PM

I'd like to know what slog thinks is wrong with South Korea or New Zealand.

I suspect he will fall back on "This is America, and we suck". Which he will then also take to be completely normal, acceptable and defensible--or wholly someone's fault besides his own.
Trippy
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Reply #766 on: May 29, 2020, 03:48:18 PM

More bad new for hydroxychloroquine. In the largest observational study to date hydroxychloroquine with or without a macrolide antibiotic like azithromycin showed increased mortality rates compared to the placebo group.

The Lancet: Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis

Study Analysis:

STAT: What a big new study on malaria drugs as Covid-19 treatments tells us — and what it doesn’t
Quote
“It’s a very striking finding and it’s convincing to me,” said Steven Nissen, a cardiologist at the Cleveland Clinic. “Based upon these findings and others, no one should take hydroxychloroquine with or without an antibiotic unless they are in a randomized controlled trial. It should not be used in the general population to prevent or to treat Covid-19 infection.”

Eric Topol, director and founder of the Scripps Research Translational Institute and a cardiologist, noted the risk in a series of tweets. “It’s no longer that hydroxychloroquine has no sign of efficacy,” he wrote, “it is associated with an increase in mortality.”
Lots of people are not happy with this study. The server hosting the letter to the Lancet signed by more 120 researchers and medical professionals is broken but I believe this is the contents, cribbed from Reddit:
Quote
Concerns regarding the statistical analysis and data integrity

The retrospective, observational study of 96,032 hospitalized COVID-19 patients from six continents reported substantially increased mortality (~30% excess deaths) and occurrence of cardiac arrhythmias associated with the use of the 4-aminoquinoline drugs hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine. These results have had a considerable impact on public health practice and research.

The WHO has paused recruitment to the hydroxychloroquine arm in their SOLIDARITY trial. The UK regulatory body, MHRA, requested the temporary pausing of recruitment into all hydroxychloroquine trials in the UK (treatment and prevention), and France has changed its national recommendation for the use of hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19 treatment and also halted trials.

The subsequent media headlines have caused considerable concern to participants and patients enrolled in randomized controlled trials (RCTs) seeking to characterize the potential benefits and risks of these drugs in the treatment and prevention of COVID-19 infections. There is uniform agreement that well conducted RCTs are needed to inform policies and practices.

This impact has led many researchers around the world to scrutinize in detail the publication in question. This scrutiny has raised both methodological and data integrity concerns. The main concerns are listed as follows:

1. There was inadequate adjustment for known and measured confounders (disease severity, temporal effects, site effects, dose used).
2. The authors have not adhered to standard practices in the machine learning and statistics community. They have not released their code or data. There is no data/code sharing and availability statement in the paper. The Lancet was among the many signatories on the Wellcome statement on data sharing for COVID-19 studies.
3. There was no ethics review.
4. There was no mention of the countries or hospitals that contributed to the data source and no acknowledgments to their contributions. A request to the authors for information on the contributing centres was denied.
5. Data from Australia are not compatible with government reports (too many cases for just five hospitals, more in-hospital deaths than had occurred in the entire country during the study period). Surgisphere (the data company) have since stated this was an error of classification of one hospital from Asia. This indicates the need for further error checking throughout the database.
6. Data from Africa indicate that nearly 25% of all COVID-19 cases and 40% of all deaths in the continent occurred in Surgisphere-associated hospitals which had sophisticated electronic patient data recording, and patient monitoring able to detect and record “nonsustained [at least 6 secs] or sustained ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation”. Both the numbers of cases and deaths, and the detailed data collection, seem unlikely.
7. Unusually small reported variances in baseline variables, interventions and outcomes between continents (Table S3).
8. Mean daily doses of hydroxychloroquine that are 100 mg higher than FDA recommendations, whereas 66% of the data are from North American hospitals.
9. Implausible ratios of chloroquine to hydroxychloroquine use in some continents.
10. The tight 95% confidence intervals reported for the hazard ratios appear inconsistent with the data. For instance, for the Australian data this would need about double the numbers of recorded deaths as were reported in the paper. The patient data were obtained through electronic health records, supply chain databases, and financial records. The data are held by the US company Surgisphere. In response to a request for the data Professor Mehra replied: “Our data sharing agreements with the various governments, countries and hospitals do not allow us to share data unfortunately.”

Given the enormous importance and influence of these results, we believe it is imperative that:

1. The company Surgisphere provides details on data provenance. At the very minimum, this means sharing the aggregated patient data at the hospital level (for all covariates and outcomes)
2. Independent validation of the analysis is performed by a group convened by the World Health Organization, or at least one other independent and respected institution. This would entail additional analyses (e.g. determining if there is a dose-effect) to assess the validity of the conclusions
3. There is open access to all the data sharing agreements cited above to ensure that, in each jurisdiction, any mined data was legally and ethically collected and patient privacy aspects respected

In the interests of transparency, we also ask The Lancet to make openly available the peer review comments that led to this manuscript to be accepted for publication.

This open letter is signed by clinicians, medical researchers, statisticians, and ethicists from across the world. The full list of signatories and affiliations can be found below.
Khaldun
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Reply #767 on: May 29, 2020, 05:05:20 PM

Those are pretty valid critiques. Part of the issue now is that with Trump promoting it, other people have something at stake in showing it's not helpful. If we really want to be committed to the science, we have to follow it--and the problem really is that good clinical results are so thoroughly contaminated in the case of ALL pharmaceuticals right now--so much metaresearch has shown that many drug trials have been simultaneously tainted by corporate imperatives and academic publication incentives that we really only know for sure about drugs and therapies that have overwhelming benefits that stand out in any data. Knowing what works here is going to take a while, as it did with HIV, as it does with many conditions. And the thing is that it's not purely about financial incentives. There's a significant financial incentive to knock down norovirus considering its massive impact on tourism and the travel industry as well as nursing homes but it's a super-complicated prospect technically so progress has been very slow.

If we're gonna live by the science, we have to die by it, if that's the way it is.
slog
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Reply #768 on: May 29, 2020, 07:03:41 PM

I'd like to know what slog thinks is wrong with South Korea or New Zealand.

I suspect he will fall back on "This is America, and we suck". Which he will then also take to be completely normal, acceptable and defensible--or wholly someone's fault besides his own.


Not a thing is wrong with those countries.  I would like to know why you think I'm wrong.  Do you not see all the people walking without masks walking around completely ignoring anything resembling social distancing?  America isn't fucked because this thing kills the old and the sick.  Here in NH we are losing 5 people a day in nursing homes to the virus and everyone just carries on like normal.

Edit:  If he meant that lots of people will die unnecessarily when he wrote "America is fucked" then I take it all back.  I assumed he meant America is going to collapse.  I'm thinking we will see 300,000 to 500,000 deaths, but the country as an institution will carry on as normal after that.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 07:19:03 PM by slog »

Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223


Reply #769 on: May 29, 2020, 09:16:20 PM


 I would like to know why you think I'm wrong.

Experience. Your avatar does not help either.

Hic sunt dracones.
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