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Author Topic: House of the Dragon  (Read 5845 times)
eldaec
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on: October 30, 2019, 02:22:41 AM

Naomi Watts Got prequel scrapped, but Miguel Sapochnik (and some other guy) is showrunning a Targ focused prequel that has got an order. I do not understand for the life of me how Sapochnik has basically no cv despite making all the good post-wedding GoT episodes - so happy to see this.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/game-thrones-prequel-house-dragon-gets-hbo-series-order-1250974

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Threash
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Reply #1 on: October 30, 2019, 10:07:44 AM

I hope they get Naomi Watts, she needs to be in stuff.

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eldaec
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Reply #2 on: October 05, 2021, 10:05:39 AM

Trailer.

https://youtu.be/fNwwt25mheo

Bit dark and broody but we'll see I guess.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 03:46:51 AM by eldaec »

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
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Khaldun
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Reply #3 on: October 05, 2021, 10:16:24 AM

You know, I've never found myself as cold to a thing I liked and was enjoying as in the case of GoT. That last season just killed any interest I have in any iteration of it.
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Reply #4 on: October 05, 2021, 12:05:11 PM

You know, I've never found myself as cold to a thing I liked and was enjoying as in the case of GoT. That last season just killed any interest I have in any iteration of it.

100% this. A buddy of mine was talking about it the other day and I honestly found I don't really remember any of it, aside from the first three books which I've read multiple times. I guess if this prequel is good I'll watch it, but I'm very far from excited.

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Reply #5 on: October 05, 2021, 11:25:31 PM

100% this. A buddy of mine was talking about it the other day and I honestly found I don't really remember any of it, aside from the first three books which I've read multiple times.
Yep.  I actually have the "collectors" set with the first 4 books in it.  Several months back, I tried to pick it up and re-read it, since I haven't read the fifth book yet.  First 3 books are good.  Literally did not make it through the fourth.  Just couldn't do it.  Was just so unbelievably dry and un-interesting.

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Threash
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Reply #6 on: October 06, 2021, 08:54:30 AM

You know, I've never found myself as cold to a thing I liked and was enjoying as in the case of GoT. That last season just killed any interest I have in any iteration of it.


The last two really, but the problems actually started early when they decided to start cutting stuff that was critical to the ending.

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Reply #7 on: October 06, 2021, 09:27:19 AM

Yawn... nothing about this trailer tells me I should care about this franchise while GRR Martin is still hiding behind the season 8 ending.
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Reply #8 on: October 06, 2021, 10:35:46 AM

100% this. A buddy of mine was talking about it the other day and I honestly found I don't really remember any of it, aside from the first three books which I've read multiple times.
Yep.  I actually have the "collectors" set with the first 4 books in it.  Several months back, I tried to pick it up and re-read it, since I haven't read the fifth book yet.  First 3 books are good.  Literally did not make it through the fourth.  Just couldn't do it.  Was just so unbelievably dry and un-interesting.

The fifth book is where he goes full Robert Jordan. "I'm going to introduce a ton of subplots and characters no one gives a shit about to drag things out as long as possible." As much shit as the writers of the show got they didn't have much to work with beyond those first three books. They still made some big mistakes but GRR Martin certainly didn't help them any.

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Khaldun
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Reply #9 on: October 06, 2021, 06:18:15 PM

I know what he was doing in the fifth book and I think it's why he can't finish--he didn't want to go where everything seemed to be heading (Jon is a Targaryen and a Stark; Jon has a prophecied role; the bad guys will eventually get beaten back; *somebody* will get the Iron Throne; etc.) but not going there required creating still more uncertainty and confusion and introducing dead-end viewpoint characters. The fifth book is a three-card monte specialist who thinks the marks have gotten wise to him and the cops are coming soon and he doesn't know quite what to do, because the money still is going down on the table. You could finish the books with something really unexpected: the ice guys win! Jon is actually dead! There's a popular revolution with a religious edge and the Iron Throne gets melted down into guillotines! Bran doesn't matter at all after all! Victarion actually gains control of the dragons and kills Danerys! etc., but Martin knew that would cause folks to blow up completely (as, more or less, the super-badly-executed Bran conclusion in fact did). But delivering the expected plot beats would just toss the whole thing back into the just-another-fantasy bin. So I think this became "the smartest move is not to play", which I suspect he must be feeling even more so now. Just leave Sanderson to write the rest later on, he'll do a better job anyway.

But the net effect of this is to make any prequel earth-shatteringly uninteresting. Like, what do we need to know about the Targs now? Dunk and Egg works because it's scaled completely differently than GoT: the stories are lighter, smaller in scope, more individually consequential, more character-driven. There's nothing left to explain about Martin's world that doesn't trespass on the things that the TV series explained horribly or just left hanging, or that doesn't strike at the heart of the things Martin has never really clarified in his writing (prequels and otherwise). If you can't world-build and you don't have a story of consequence, all you're doing is filling out some stuff for the wiki editors to do later on.
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Reply #10 on: October 06, 2021, 11:24:05 PM

I know what he was doing in the fifth book and I think it's why he can't finish--he didn't want to go where everything seemed to be heading (Jon is a Targaryen and a Stark; Jon has a prophecied role; the bad guys will eventually get beaten back; *somebody* will get the Iron Throne; etc.) but not going there required creating still more uncertainty and confusion and introducing dead-end viewpoint characters. The fifth book is a three-card monte specialist who thinks the marks have gotten wise to him and the cops are coming soon and he doesn't know quite what to do, because the money still is going down on the table. You could finish the books with something really unexpected: the ice guys win! Jon is actually dead! There's a popular revolution with a religious edge and the Iron Throne gets melted down into guillotines! Bran doesn't matter at all after all! Victarion actually gains control of the dragons and kills Danerys! etc., but Martin knew that would cause folks to blow up completely (as, more or less, the super-badly-executed Bran conclusion in fact did). But delivering the expected plot beats would just toss the whole thing back into the just-another-fantasy bin. So I think this became "the smartest move is not to play", which I suspect he must be feeling even more so now. Just leave Sanderson to write the rest later on, he'll do a better job anyway.

But the net effect of this is to make any prequel earth-shatteringly uninteresting. Like, what do we need to know about the Targs now? Dunk and Egg works because it's scaled completely differently than GoT: the stories are lighter, smaller in scope, more individually consequential, more character-driven. There's nothing left to explain about Martin's world that doesn't trespass on the things that the TV series explained horribly or just left hanging, or that doesn't strike at the heart of the things Martin has never really clarified in his writing (prequels and otherwise). If you can't world-build and you don't have a story of consequence, all you're doing is filling out some stuff for the wiki editors to do later on.


I second this, I don't blame the Weiss brothers for fucking game of thrones because it wasn't their job to write the fucking ending. And honestly I don't see them going out on a limb to fanfic seasons 5-8 in order to avoid the evitable "this wasn't the books" conclusions the fans would come up with when they could have just taken GRR Martins general story drivels taken it down the direction they figured he is working toward.

But fuck me, sometimes tropes aren't bad. Your not a subverting expectations when Arya is still alive and Danny is the god emperor savior queen of slaver bay. Your story is good because for the most part...well minus Danny, actions have fucking consequences. You can have that cake and ultimately let the big damn heroes be heroes cake too, but no you gotta pretend that the reason why people give a shit about GOT is the "cruel unforgiving world where nothing expected happens and everyone dies the end."
eldaec
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Reply #11 on: October 07, 2021, 03:48:56 AM

You know, I've never found myself as cold to a thing I liked and was enjoying as in the case of GoT. That last season just killed any interest I have in any iteration of it.


It remains a great setting and as far as I can see this has no creative connection to the post season 4 Got fiasco. Or even the post Storm of Swords aSoIaF situation.

Watching Matt Smith chew scenery is a perfectly pleasant way to spend an hour. So I'm retaining interest if not actual hype.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 03:50:46 AM by eldaec »

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Cyrrex
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Reply #12 on: October 07, 2021, 05:20:10 AM

I think it should be pointed out that most of the issues with the last couple seasons of GoT were narrative and story decision issues.  It was still excellently produced, and some of the set pieces were unbelievable.  Even if this series is pants, I expect it might be worth a watch on the spectacle alone, unless they cheap out on it.

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Reply #13 on: October 07, 2021, 06:38:31 AM

I'm also in the 'just read the 1st 3' camp. I've read the first 5 irrc, and the fiancee was asking if she should continue past 3 (which she read long ago). She digs nasty political infighting ala British monarchy, huge fan of historical fiction, and she enjoyed those aspects of the books. Hates, hates, hates the supernatural stuff, and I happen to agree with her. This series would've been much better without snow zombies or w/e and dragons.

Haven't seen the tv show, though.
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Reply #14 on: October 08, 2021, 06:31:24 AM

I still think one spectacular direction for Martin to go is to switch up in Book 6 and reveal that the whole series is really a post-apocalypse series--that the snow zombies are actually going to cleanse Westeros of almost all people (once upon a time there weren't any there, remember) and the dragons are gonna stay in Essos and breed and escape human control, so that people in Essos live more or less as a hunted species. Fire and ice.

Make the last book be about a last stand in King's Landing--Dany goes there after the dragons abandon her (they were using her, not the other way around), Jon, etc. Everybody elsewhere has starved because they didn't prepare for a terrible winter; in the meantime, the dragons are still feasting their way through Slaver's Bay and the Dothraki but never fear, when they've got a brood to raise, they'll need some new food sources. All the games of power are done; nobody cares any more who sits on the Throne. Maybe Arya does her alpha strike and the snow zombies insta-die, but the winter will still go on for years anyway; maybe that snaps the rising power of fire and Victarion shows up with the horn and instakills the dragons. Somebody gets to be king or queen in Westeros, but it's king of nothing, of a continent of empty ruins; Essos is a mess and the entire system of inter-kingdom finance is a shambles because the Iron Bank can't collect its debts and went belly-up. Cersei asks Jamie to kill her because she wants to die; he does it and then commits suicide himself.

That would still pay off the prophecies, and yet feel completely surprising and a poke in the eye to the people who want a standard "and then the good guys won" ending. It would keep the snow zombies and the dragons more like a force of nature and less like "I cast the level 9 spell 'Summon Ice Zombie'".
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Reply #15 on: October 10, 2021, 07:29:48 AM

Wasn't the last book hinting at a conspiracy of the maesters supressing magic and now they are failing that too?

I thought the very end of the book actual interesting things may be starting.
Threash
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Reply #16 on: October 10, 2021, 07:48:59 AM

Wasn't the last book hinting at a conspiracy of the maesters supressing magic and now they are failing that too?

I thought the very end of the book actual interesting things may be starting.

Yup, and that they killed the dragons.

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Reply #17 on: May 05, 2022, 03:47:29 PM

They dropped a trailer today.  Not sure what to make of it just yet but I will watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg86eQkdudI

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Reply #18 on: May 05, 2022, 07:22:37 PM

I'll give it 3 episodes to become interesting.

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Reply #19 on: May 06, 2022, 03:38:20 AM

I expect that if the production values are more or less on par with the original, it will be watchable for that reason alone (for me).  A quick thought I had watching the trailer....the original, for all its many flaws, had a LOT of very interesting and well-acted characters.  Most of these guys look like wet toast.  I like Matt Smith, but he looks pretty bland here so far.

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Reply #20 on: August 21, 2022, 09:20:11 PM

Didn't hate it.

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Reply #21 on: August 22, 2022, 06:03:21 AM

Only problem i had was trying to take Matt Smith seriously.

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Samwise
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Reply #22 on: August 22, 2022, 07:18:03 AM

Didn't hate it, but I agree with the "wet toast" comment.  So far I don't love or hate any of these characters enough to be really invested in their success or demise.  Well, except maybe Matt Smith because he's a cop.  I'm looking forward to him getting eaten by a dragon, I guess?

But by this point in Game of Thrones, we'd already seen the white walker threat, and spent enough time with the Starks to already be rooting for them, and set up Ned's big inner conflict (duty to his family and the North vs duty to his friend and the realm) that would drive the whole season, and met the charismatic-yet-obviously-untrustworthy Lannisters, and it ended with the cliffhanger of Cersei and Jaime throwing Bran out a window.  Whole lot of stuff going on to make you care about what's going to happen to the different characters and want to tune in next week.

Mostly what I'm looking forward to next week from this show is having King Wifeslayer the Dull die of not being able to either sit on a chair correctly or take his primary care physician's advice, so that maybe the plot can finally start grinding along with the marginally more interesting characters.

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Reply #23 on: August 23, 2022, 07:02:11 PM

It was fine. I'm at least now going to hold off on reading the book, so it doesn't cloud my opinion of the show. But yah, bunch of blank slates outside of Matt Smith.

It is quite pretty.

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Reply #24 on: August 23, 2022, 07:34:01 PM

As I'm just hanging around with family for weeks, I ordered the book last week and blew through it in a day or three.  I actually enjoyed it, but just so you are perfectly clear, it is basically a 700 page wiki entry.  There is nothing POV or anything, just random quotes some of the characters said at points, in between long narration.  It literally reads like one long wikipedia entry.  Which is totally fine for me, I love Wiki and can read it all day long, but I can see how other people would hate that.

As for the story I read, it has a lot of potential to be very entertaining, but as we only got a description of everything that happened lined out, its very much up to the show runners to craft characters with interesting personalities and dialog.  They have almost nothing to adapt from except a description of the actions the various characters took, and one or two lines about if a given character was brave, or craven, or sneaky, or slutty, ect.

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Reply #25 on: September 15, 2022, 10:39:40 PM

I am quite enjoying this compared with the other fantasy show.
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Reply #26 on: September 15, 2022, 11:45:28 PM

That's a very low bar to clear.
Threash
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Reply #27 on: September 16, 2022, 02:52:18 PM

It needs a Bronn/Tyrion type character, everyone is too serious. And it's own damn theme song. Other than that it is fun.

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Khaldun
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Reply #28 on: September 17, 2022, 07:03:21 AM

Yeah, I've been thinking it's a bit too Masterpiece Theater Game of Thrones--nothing that's down in the muck or closer to everyday life. Could use a sassy dragon handler or something.
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Reply #29 on: September 17, 2022, 08:20:01 AM

I guess that's the problem with basing it on a book that was more about the birds-eye history and less about the personal stories.  The ASoIaF books were very much down in the muck and while GRRM has his flaws as a writer, he did a good job writing characters that feel relatable and are fun to root for. 

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Reply #30 on: September 21, 2022, 08:35:16 AM

To be fair the series is about to do a big time jump next episode, so they could introduce some characters like that.  But overall, yeah.  This is very much Game of Thrones, lords slaughtering lords drama story.  Not to spoil but there is a small group of characters who aren't lords and could fit in with what you are looking for, but at the current pace they most likely wont be introduced until next season.  Also the writers could make them not fun and suck also.

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Reply #31 on: September 21, 2022, 02:26:54 PM

I thought the most recent episode was well crafted, especially the way they shot the very end. They built up a variety of tensions and political intrigue, so that there were numerous pots ready to boil over in an environment of polite celebration. Like, I dunno, a good Game of Thrones episode.
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Reply #32 on: September 22, 2022, 01:11:29 PM

Ya, the editing in the wedding dance scene was really well done to ramp up the tension.

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Reply #33 on: September 22, 2022, 02:08:41 PM

Agreed.
Threash
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Reply #34 on: October 05, 2022, 01:47:46 PM

This is seriously good shit. Completely different vibe than the good GOT stuff, but good in a different way. Before this I don't think I could have told you what an old dragon is supposed to look like, but they fucking nailed it.

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