f13.net

Naomi Watts Got prequel scrapped, but Miguel Sapochnik (and some other guy) is showrunning a Targ focused prequel that has got an order. I do not understand for the life of me how Sapochnik has basically no cv despite making all the good post-wedding GoT episodes - so happy to see this.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/game-thrones-prequel-house-dragon-gets-hbo-series-order-1250974

I hope they get Naomi Watts, she needs to be in stuff.

Trailer.

https://youtu.be/fNwwt25mheo

Bit dark and broody but we'll see I guess.

You know, I've never found myself as cold to a thing I liked and was enjoying as in the case of GoT. That last season just killed any interest I have in any iteration of it.

100% this. A buddy of mine was talking about it the other day and I honestly found I don't really remember any of it, aside from the first three books which I've read multiple times. I guess if this prequel is good I'll watch it, but I'm very far from excited.

Yep.  I actually have the "collectors" set with the first 4 books in it.  Several months back, I tried to pick it up and re-read it, since I haven't read the fifth book yet.  First 3 books are good.  Literally did not make it through the fourth.  Just couldn't do it.  Was just so unbelievably dry and un-interesting.

The last two really, but the problems actually started early when they decided to start cutting stuff that was critical to the ending.

Yawn... nothing about this trailer tells me I should care about this franchise while GRR Martin is still hiding behind the season 8 ending.

The fifth book is where he goes full Robert Jordan. "I'm going to introduce a ton of subplots and characters no one gives a shit about to drag things out as long as possible." As much shit as the writers of the show got they didn't have much to work with beyond those first three books. They still made some big mistakes but GRR Martin certainly didn't help them any.

I know what he was doing in the fifth book and I think it's why he can't finish--he didn't want to go where everything seemed to be heading (Jon is a Targaryen and a Stark; Jon has a prophecied role; the bad guys will eventually get beaten back; *somebody* will get the Iron Throne; etc.) but not going there required creating still more uncertainty and confusion and introducing dead-end viewpoint characters. The fifth book is a three-card monte specialist who thinks the marks have gotten wise to him and the cops are coming soon and he doesn't know quite what to do, because the money still is going down on the table. You could finish the books with something really unexpected: the ice guys win! Jon is actually dead! There's a popular revolution with a religious edge and the Iron Throne gets melted down into guillotines! Bran doesn't matter at all after all! Victarion actually gains control of the dragons and kills Danerys! etc., but Martin knew that would cause folks to blow up completely (as, more or less, the super-badly-executed Bran conclusion in fact did). But delivering the expected plot beats would just toss the whole thing back into the just-another-fantasy bin. So I think this became "the smartest move is not to play", which I suspect he must be feeling even more so now. Just leave Sanderson to write the rest later on, he'll do a better job anyway.

But the net effect of this is to make any prequel earth-shatteringly uninteresting. Like, what do we need to know about the Targs now? Dunk and Egg works because it's scaled completely differently than GoT: the stories are lighter, smaller in scope, more individually consequential, more character-driven. There's nothing left to explain about Martin's world that doesn't trespass on the things that the TV series explained horribly or just left hanging, or that doesn't strike at the heart of the things Martin has never really clarified in his writing (prequels and otherwise). If you can't world-build and you don't have a story of consequence, all you're doing is filling out some stuff for the wiki editors to do later on.

I second this, I don't blame the Weiss brothers for fucking game of thrones because it wasn't their job to write the fucking ending. And honestly I don't see them going out on a limb to fanfic seasons 5-8 in order to avoid the evitable "this wasn't the books" conclusions the fans would come up with when they could have just taken GRR Martins general story drivels taken it down the direction they figured he is working toward.

But fuck me, sometimes tropes aren't bad. Your not a subverting expectations when Arya is still alive and Danny is the god emperor savior queen of slaver bay. Your story is good because for the most part...well minus Danny, actions have fucking consequences. You can have that cake and ultimately let the big damn heroes be heroes cake too, but no you gotta pretend that the reason why people give a shit about GOT is the "cruel unforgiving world where nothing expected happens and everyone dies the end."

It remains a great setting and as far as I can see this has no creative connection to the post season 4 Got fiasco. Or even the post Storm of Swords aSoIaF situation.

Watching Matt Smith chew scenery is a perfectly pleasant way to spend an hour. So I'm retaining interest if not actual hype.

I think it should be pointed out that most of the issues with the last couple seasons of GoT were narrative and story decision issues.  It was still excellently produced, and some of the set pieces were unbelievable.  Even if this series is pants, I expect it might be worth a watch on the spectacle alone, unless they cheap out on it.

I'm also in the 'just read the 1st 3' camp. I've read the first 5 irrc, and the fiancee was asking if she should continue past 3 (which she read long ago). She digs nasty political infighting ala British monarchy, huge fan of historical fiction, and she enjoyed those aspects of the books. Hates, hates, hates the supernatural stuff, and I happen to agree with her. This series would've been much better without snow zombies or w/e and dragons.

Haven't seen the tv show, though.

I still think one spectacular direction for Martin to go is to switch up in Book 6 and reveal that the whole series is really a post-apocalypse series--that the snow zombies are actually going to cleanse Westeros of almost all people (once upon a time there weren't any there, remember) and the dragons are gonna stay in Essos and breed and escape human control, so that people in Essos live more or less as a hunted species. Fire and ice.

Make the last book be about a last stand in King's Landing--Dany goes there after the dragons abandon her (they were using her, not the other way around), Jon, etc. Everybody elsewhere has starved because they didn't prepare for a terrible winter; in the meantime, the dragons are still feasting their way through Slaver's Bay and the Dothraki but never fear, when they've got a brood to raise, they'll need some new food sources. All the games of power are done; nobody cares any more who sits on the Throne. Maybe Arya does her alpha strike and the snow zombies insta-die, but the winter will still go on for years anyway; maybe that snaps the rising power of fire and Victarion shows up with the horn and instakills the dragons. Somebody gets to be king or queen in Westeros, but it's king of nothing, of a continent of empty ruins; Essos is a mess and the entire system of inter-kingdom finance is a shambles because the Iron Bank can't collect its debts and went belly-up. Cersei asks Jamie to kill her because she wants to die; he does it and then commits suicide himself.

That would still pay off the prophecies, and yet feel completely surprising and a poke in the eye to the people who want a standard "and then the good guys won" ending. It would keep the snow zombies and the dragons more like a force of nature and less like "I cast the level 9 spell 'Summon Ice Zombie'".

Wasn't the last book hinting at a conspiracy of the maesters supressing magic and now they are failing that too?

I thought the very end of the book actual interesting things may be starting.

Yup, and that they killed the dragons.

They dropped a trailer today.  Not sure what to make of it just yet but I will watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg86eQkdudI

I'll give it 3 episodes to become interesting.

I expect that if the production values are more or less on par with the original, it will be watchable for that reason alone (for me).  A quick thought I had watching the trailer....the original, for all its many flaws, had a LOT of very interesting and well-acted characters.  Most of these guys look like wet toast.  I like Matt Smith, but he looks pretty bland here so far.

Didn't hate it.

Only problem i had was trying to take Matt Smith seriously.

Didn't hate it, but I agree with the "wet toast" comment.  So far I don't love or hate any of these characters enough to be really invested in their success or demise.  Well, except maybe Matt Smith because he's a cop.  I'm looking forward to him getting eaten by a dragon, I guess?

But by this point in Game of Thrones, we'd already seen the white walker threat, and spent enough time with the Starks to already be rooting for them, and set up Ned's big inner conflict (duty to his family and the North vs duty to his friend and the realm) that would drive the whole season, and met the charismatic-yet-obviously-untrustworthy Lannisters, and it ended with the cliffhanger of Cersei and Jaime throwing Bran out a window.  Whole lot of stuff going on to make you care about what's going to happen to the different characters and want to tune in next week.

Mostly what I'm looking forward to next week from this show is having King Wifeslayer the Dull die of not being able to either sit on a chair correctly or take his primary care physician's advice, so that maybe the plot can finally start grinding along with the marginally more interesting characters.

It was fine. I'm at least now going to hold off on reading the book, so it doesn't cloud my opinion of the show. But yah, bunch of blank slates outside of Matt Smith.

It is quite pretty.

As I'm just hanging around with family for weeks, I ordered the book last week and blew through it in a day or three.  I actually enjoyed it, but just so you are perfectly clear, it is basically a 700 page wiki entry.  There is nothing POV or anything, just random quotes some of the characters said at points, in between long narration.  It literally reads like one long wikipedia entry.  Which is totally fine for me, I love Wiki and can read it all day long, but I can see how other people would hate that.

As for the story I read, it has a lot of potential to be very entertaining, but as we only got a description of everything that happened lined out, its very much up to the show runners to craft characters with interesting personalities and dialog.  They have almost nothing to adapt from except a description of the actions the various characters took, and one or two lines about if a given character was brave, or craven, or sneaky, or slutty, ect.

I am quite enjoying this compared with the other fantasy show.

That's a very low bar to clear.

It needs a Bronn/Tyrion type character, everyone is too serious. And it's own damn theme song. Other than that it is fun.

Yeah, I've been thinking it's a bit too Masterpiece Theater Game of Thrones--nothing that's down in the muck or closer to everyday life. Could use a sassy dragon handler or something.

I guess that's the problem with basing it on a book that was more about the birds-eye history and less about the personal stories.  The ASoIaF books were very much down in the muck and while GRRM has his flaws as a writer, he did a good job writing characters that feel relatable and are fun to root for. 

To be fair the series is about to do a big time jump next episode, so they could introduce some characters like that.  But overall, yeah.  This is very much Game of Thrones, lords slaughtering lords drama story.  Not to spoil but there is a small group of characters who aren't lords and could fit in with what you are looking for, but at the current pace they most likely wont be introduced until next season.  Also the writers could make them not fun and suck also.

I thought the most recent episode was well crafted, especially the way they shot the very end. They built up a variety of tensions and political intrigue, so that there were numerous pots ready to boil over in an environment of polite celebration. Like, I dunno, a good Game of Thrones episode.

Ya, the editing in the wedding dance scene was really well done to ramp up the tension.

Agreed.

This is seriously good shit. Completely different vibe than the good GOT stuff, but good in a different way. Before this I don't think I could have told you what an old dragon is supposed to look like, but they fucking nailed it.

I'm really enjoying this and I didn't actually expect to.

The show has gotten way way way better since the time jump.

Just give Paddy Considine all the Emmys.

He's done a fantastic job giving depth to a character who might otherwise have come off like a dull chump.

That said I certainly hope he is actually fucking dead this time, I've thought he died every single episode since week 2.

It took me a while to even notice in a previous episode that he had lost an arm.

There is the best show on tv and then there's everyone else. And its not even close.

Yeah, this is better than any of the other fantasy shit that's come out in the last year or so by miles.  I read the book earlier this year so knew it was going to start slow because there is a lot of setup involved to get all the characters and factions into place.  But just as I hoped, it's getting better episode by episode as they speed towards the main event.  The book format of being a historical narration of what happened really does make it great adaptation material.  Martin sketched out a very War of the Rose's succession battle with lots of fun back and forth, and now the show runners have all the leeway to fill in the details while following that plot.  Having said that, I'm pretty bummed that Miguel Sapochnik announced he's stepping away as show runner.  Other than the fact it's always concerning to see the show runner get changed on a show you like, he was the guy who directed all the the best action episodes in the last season or two of GoT's, and season 2 would be glorious with him in charge.  Oh well, maybe they can bring him back to direct.

And yes, Paddy Considine did a great job with the character.  You really feel for him, even though he obviously was not the right man for the job.  Also liked how they were consistent in that no matter how brutal and envious Daemon has been over the years, even after getting pushed out from being next in succession despite that being the norm under law, he always remained faithful to his brother.  Faults and all.  Good character building.

Though I swear to god I feel like I'm watching John Adams as played by Paul Giamatti, but now he's been made a king.  Character and acting seem really similar to me.

Took me until yesterday to realize that PC was one of the Andy's.

(https://i.gifer.com/FHiF.gif)

Just binged to get up to date on this.

Surprised me how good it is.

The one thing I really did not like is the very last scene in episode 8.

I don't think they needed miscommunication as a plot device.

Throughout I'd say they sometimes put one line of dialog too many to explain the plot or someone's thoughts. But on the whole it's great.

Confidence with which they handle the time jumps is especially great.

I think they are going to miss Sapochnik though. Every episode has his rhythm running right through it. It isn't just that he did many of the best action episodes on GoT, hes also great at pacing the rest of the show, and his ability to present KL as an actual place and avoid it feeling like a thing that only exists to serve plot is a real asset here.

Yeah, I'm nervous about him leaving, but oh well.

And agree on that last scene.  I really hope they don't make shit hit the fan because the two girls made up, but then suddenly one misunderstands a prophecy she heard from a dying old man.  In the book it's just the increasing tension, hatred, paranoia, and bouts of violence over two decades between the two sides of the family which leads to irrevocable differences by the time of succession.  And they've been building up to that very well, but then this....

Also, lol, I only just realized that was Laenor running off with Qarl at the end of the other episode, and they faked his death.  Qarl actually killed him in the book.

The fact the princess and queen had personally made up didn't remotely prevent them going to war in my view.

I think they can turn it around if they play it as Alicent using it as an excuse rather than becoming a true believer.

The whole show has a done a really good job with everyone loving and hating everyone else at the same time.

They have apparently done a few things to whitewash the blacks, which is understandable as Rhaenyra is really the main character.

I didn't think the miscommunication mattered all that much because the two factions are completely aligned for war otherwise. Otto Hightower and his two grandsons would override Alicent in any event. Alicent wants to be convinced to fight.

This last episode was terrific. The scene in the throneroom was just great ("he can keep his tongue" is going to become one of Those Quotes that everyone remembers) and so was the dinner scene.

One thing I appreciate is that in a subtle way the show is also demonstrating how badly things have run down by the time of the main Song of Fire and Ice books--everybody is MUCH more reluctant to engage in poisonings, assassinations, murder and so on; the power and majesty of the Targaryens overall looms over everything in Westeros. Alicent is genuinely horrified and disgusted by her eldest son; compare to Cersei's relative indifference to Joffrey's conduct (well, Cersei is no stranger to perversity, after all).

Yeah, the show has done a really good job with that.  The book also emphasized that this point (actually, basically right up to this last episode) is the absolute height of Targ power in Westeros.  It's all down hill from here, even if the downhill takes another few hundred years to hit bottom.

I am gonna be so bummed when dragons start dropping.

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Well that was a helluva setup for season 2.

I like that the dragons finally got to do something on their own (i.e. against the commands of their riders) that has plot significance.  They teased that a bit with "none of these dragons have been to war," and it suggests that figuring out how to use the dragons effectively will be crucial in what's to come.

RIP Arrax, that was even more brutal than i thought it would be.

Not to spoiler, but heh, yeah.  Dragon on Dragon action doesn't work out the way a lot of people hope for.

Having said that, interesting how they made it like it was an accident in the Episode.  In the book Aemond specifically chased after him from Storms End to kill him over the whole eye thing.  Guess that makes this a bit more interesting and gives more depth to Aemond than just being super evil mean guy.

Ughh, sucks to have to wait for the next season, this was far better than I'd hoped.  Looking forward to seeing Cregan Stark and the other northern characters.

The books are history books told through unreliable narrators, this is made fairly clear by having alternate versions of several key events. They have A LOT of leeway with how they choose to interpret the story.

Yeah, "Aemond chased after him to kill him" is definitely the way that the Blacks will interpret it, since the only person who might say differently is Aemond.  The Baratheons would back that version of events since they're going to be eager to make sure as little blame sticks to them as possible.

Man, I fucking loved the last sequences of the last episode, starting with the Borros visit.  Holy shit.  Vhaegar is just terrifyingly big.

I spent the last three and a half weeks in Kenya without streaming services (other than pre-downloaded stuff I took with me). On my limited internet connection, I read all the spoilers and episode summaries while House of the Dragon continued without me.

I returned to Australia on Friday and binged episodes 7-10. Even though I knew everything that was coming, I was riveted. The acting and production was so excellent and the episodes so well put together that I didn't even care that I'd read spoilers. It was awesome.