Eve Online

[Comstar]

So, this all started, 350+ dead Titans, an invasion halted (there were 3 FAILED break out attempts today, including one an hour before the Meta Show when 2000 Goons were online already) and the biggest online battle in history (6800 in one system)...

...when one 6 month old newbee got a single hit on a cyno-jammer a second before it went online....

Ceric posted:

    I was with acids fleet. There was a pretty big fight on the jammer and mid way we all got told to put DPS on the jammer. We pulled back to the keep star. One guy went in solo in a interceptor but couldn’t put enough DPS on it. I was on the second wave me in the last interceptor and 5 jackdaws but I don’t know if they made it through the bubbles. I got one crit in the jammer (135)! Before we got welped. I know they had a second crew standing by not sure what happened I dropped after I got podded.

[Comstar]

Also, Bat  Country was at the M2- battles on the Pandemic Horde side. We didn't cross paths, they didn't lose anything so I'm guessing it wasn't in many ships. It would be interesting to hear their perspective.

Unfortyunaly the only place anyone ever talks about Eve these days is the Something Awful thread and reddit/eve. I miss Kugu. And Endie's movies.

Kismeteer got a tag on a NC. Titan so well done continuing to work for Goonswarm there. Looks like some of their supers are still trapped in system, along with 40-60% of the rest of supers.

The iHub comes out of timer in a day or so, if they lose it, Goonswarm can keep the system jammed and the trapped fleet is doomed to sit off-line for 30+ days. Their attempts to rescue them so far have been increasingly pathetic, but the iHub is their best chance to get out.


Best Movie I've seen. The voice over is The Mittani in his pre-battle speech State of the Goonion.

There are rumors that the Mittani has offered PANFAM and NC. their hostages back, in exchange for leaving TEST/Legecy to die.

[slog]

Stuff like this is why I loved to follow Eve.  I could never figure out how to make money besides macroing on an alt.


(linked because the image is too big)
https://i.imgur.com/0ChYaB8.png

[Comstar]

That's a scam.

PAPI is now offering WAR BONDS after spending months making fun of Goonswarm's 1 billion for 10% return.

The PAPI supercapital fleet of 40-60% of ships are still hellcaged like it's PR- from a decade ago.


Looks Bat Country is just Kismeeter and Baltec. We still run Baltec fleets in his honor.

[slog]

That's a scam.

PAPI is now offering WAR BONDS after spending months making fun of Goonswarm's 1 billion for 10% return.

The PAPI supercapital fleet of 40-60% of ships are still hellcaged like it's PR- from a decade ago.


Looks Bat Country is just Kismeeter and Baltec. We still run Baltec fleets in his honor.

Yea, I know it's a scam.  Stuff like that is what makes Eve so great.  Player actions actually mean something.

[Comstar]

Hostile numbers are decreasing. We blew up their Fortizar in M2- which is now also bubbled. I was there tonight at downtime and they logged in 100+ Titan's but didn't do anything, I think they were bookmarking their location and bubbles for the weekend.

https://www.captiongenerator.com/2093412/PAPI-Offensive-on-M2-XFE - Video of the PAPI FC

https://www.captiongenerator.com/2095792/The-News-at-900-Battle-of-M2-XFE - Video of the Goon FC.\

[Korachia]

This is an amazing comeback. What´s your chances right about now Comstar?

[Comstar]

The invasion of Delve has stopped and being reversed like it's the gates of Moscow and Napoleon is retreading in the snow.

(1:22:00 PM) directorbot: A LITTLE UPDATE ON THE M2 HELLCAMP: We've had our guys working hard on figuring out how many hostile titans are trapped in M2. A bunch of work with locators has gone into this, and as best as we can tell, 334 out of the 724 hostile titans are still stuck in m2.

Enemy systems iHubs and starbases are being blown up. Battles are still ongoing, a big one last night almost succeeded in saving it but failed at the last moment. The enemy still owns large chucks of Delve, Querious, Period Basis and Fountion. There's a long road ahead before the enemy is cleared.

TEST and Legacy, who live next door, would be next.


Their morale is shattered right now and will take time to rebuild. But I would say Delve is safe and will not fall in this campaign.


edit- All Goonswarm Titan's have been replaced/reimbursed and the Bonds offer is now closed.

2:17:52 PM) directorbot: It takes a lot of :effort: to run locators on 700+ passpi nerds; the credit for this information goes to the blazer crew with penguinbacon doing some hero shit and helping coordinate the process with the blazing crew who really stepped up here. A bunch of work now conveniently put into an adash scan so you can see the by-alliance breakdown of what we believe is trapped in m2 currently.

note that the count is updated to 337, not 334 - big number go up :v:
https://adashboard.info/intel/local/view/XYdXLro0

93 TEST
69 Horde (nice)
61 FRT
61 NC
20 PL
12 Brave
etc

Above 35 Trillion ISK, maybe up to 80T.

[Korachia]

Incredible. The amount of assets and fleetpower trapped. This would be like if Napoleons troops where caught in a kesselschlacht around Borisov without option to retreat over the river.

What do you think the plans are for Horde, TEST and NC? Or has this cataclysm already created fractures in their unified command?

[Comstar]

Surprisingly to me, there hasn't been any news of any breakup in papi*. The Mittani is actively saying that TEST is next. PL and the others live on then other side of the galaxy and don't have anything to lose but haven't left yet. With the rest of Eve all blue to each other, they wouldn't have much to fight either.

It reminds me very much of the month after SirMolle lost his Titan and got locked up in PR- for a month.


------
* - papi dosn't have any caps left

[Comstar]

The Mittani's fireside chat from today

He's offering ONE GOLDEN TICKET to not-test to pay for ONE alliance to get their their Titan's out. Whoever pays the most gets their Titan's out.


papi no longer outnumbers their enemies in time zone.

[Sir T]

Its that kind of sadistic crap that keeps theMittani logging in. He wont want this to end.

[Korachia]

So deliciosly evil!



Who is most likely to jump upon this?

[slog]

The Mittani's fireside chat from today

He's offering ONE GOLDEN TICKET to not-test to pay for ONE alliance to get their their Titan's out. Whoever pays the most gets their Titan's out.


papi no longer outnumbers their enemies in time zone.

Smart way to divide their coalition.

[Comstar]

NC. or PL. I'm surprised one of them haven't yet.

[Korachia]

Any takers of the ticket?

[Comstar]

None that I have heard of. The M2- camp continues. A couple of Titans have logged in and been blown up, some blowing themselves up to avoid the shame.

[slog]

None that I have heard of. The M2- camp continues. A couple of Titans have logged in and been blown up, some blowing themselves up to avoid the shame.

At some point the pilot being stuck in the camp makes it not worth waiting it out.

[Comstar]

I've been busy pushing and writing battle reports about 19th century Napoleonic warfare so haven't been logging in much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJpwrAVivgM

Vily gets 8 fleets formed for Operation Titan Rescue. Vily gets Horde to login their Supercarriers in to test the waters...gets his own personal Titan out...and then gives up. The Supercarriers get blown up and Vily retreats with his own ship now safe.


This would be the part of the TV series where the bad guy reveals he treats his minions as well as you expect a bad guy to do.

[Baldrake]

I've been feeling the urge to jump into Eve again. Please talk me down.

[Sir T]

Its Eve. The only winning move is not to play.

I've been feeling an urge recently myself. CCP must have gotten hold of the One Ring again.

[ghost]

I've been feeling the urge to jump into Eve again. Please talk me down.

Why would you ever do this?  Eve is awful. 

[Endie]

I've been feeling the urge to jump into Eve again. Please talk me down.

Why would you ever do this?  Eve is awful. 

True story I stopped playing Eve and got promoted three times in two and a half years. Don't play Eve. If you know anyone who plays Eve, persuade them to stop or, failing that, encourage them to take up desomorphine as it is more fun and less harmful.

[Setanta]

I finally pulled the plug on my last account.

The game is just meh now.

[Khaldun]

Those last two posts need to be preserved in amber or something. They feel like something a revolutionary would say five years after the revolution. I am not criticizing. I'm actually sad in saying so.

[Teleku]

I remain very sad that everybody made 1,000 EQ clones and nobody tried to make a better version of Eve.

[Sir T]

A Russian Game called Star Wolves was a Single player game that used the Eve movement system. I replay it and its sequel occasionally.

But ya, there has been more Sea Pirate MMGs than space ones.

[Kageru]

Eve came at a time when the novelty of MMO's was enough to overcome the mechanical limits of the gameplay, so it got the chance to build a very dedicated population which made the social systems work. EQ was the same, but it was easier to extend the gameplay and make it more PvE focused... though even then, not that many MMO's around these days outside of Korean PvP grinders.

I notice Perpetuum is still around on steam, and how that was touted as an eve-alike.

So is Eve reaching another point on it's decline? Can't imagine it's drawing in huge numbers of new players.

[Endie]

So is Eve reaching another point on it's decline? Can't imagine it's drawing in huge numbers of new players.

The weird thing is how long the tail is proving with Eve. It is in decline, and short of a step-change in gameplay that must surely continue. But its half life seems to be about a decade: 60k peak online in late 2010, still c.30k just over ten years on. Masses of alts contribute to the PCU figure, of course, but that has been the case since forever, so probably doesn't directly affect the first or second derivatives of the curve.



The trend on the number of new accounts being set up - discounting the spikes after big fights - is surprisingly healthy (apologies for the lack of a timescale but the site doesn't add one: it's the same period as the first graph, however).  But Eve is clearly unable to keep them at a rate fast enough to make up for the haemorrhaging of older players. There are also a bunch of reasons (based either in gameplay or psychology) why existing players set up alts that then rarely log in, or which do so only for minutes at a time without adding to the number of paying accounts.

[Sir T]

I don't know what it says about my unconscious mind, but I quite often dream that I'm roaming around in Eve. Well, its cheaper than a sub!

[Kageru]

There must be some point at which space becomes sufficiently empty that there is no social / emergent game-play to keep people engaged and the decline steepens. In addition to the inevitable power creep of the game required to keep the veterans interested but presenting a wall to new players. And I guess those two interact in that it was the big wars that had a hunger for new blood.

Though yes, that is one impressive tail for such a limited game, I guess it still owns the niche in which it lives pretty solidly.

[Comstar]

Breaking News[/i]: Eve Online Reddit, Something Awful and Goonfleet.com:

In news today, The Mittani, head and CEO of infamous Goonswarm Alliance has been accused in the court of public opinion of: protecting pedophiles (Xenuria), dismissing legitimate complaints of sexual harassment, activity fighting against women making complaints and stands accused of being a sex pest in public for over a decade.

At this very moment, Goonswarm leadership is in the bunker attempting to ignore the growing calls for him to stand down from the leadership, and may result in the disbanding of the entire alliance.

Downfall video's are being made as we speak.

The head of Goonswarm HR (the only member of it) Innmoniate, has also ducked for cover, after it was revealed that he was informed of these events a decade ago, and did nothing.

Not 4 hours ago he was pemabanned from somethingawful.com forums and r/eve top thread are all following the drama.


I expect this news will NOT be surprising to some people who post on this very forum.



Posts from Somethingawful.com EVE thread:

dabigredboat posted:

    I haven't played EVE in almost a year but since my name is being thrown into this for some reason, I'll come out and say it. Back when I joined goons, I was a complete and utter dick. I said horrible things, I participated in "edgy" things, some for money, some because I just followed others shamelessly. I did this because SA and Goons were my first online experience right out of highschool. I mirrored what I saw others doing. Oh, RHO Squad is doing this thing, I need to jump in on that to fit in. Some of the worst verbal abuse I ever saw though came during times when Darius and other old leaders would get drunk and do "slosh ops", the amount of horrible shit said back then was horrible. Back then I played EVE Online too much, I think at one point I played it some 12hrs a day.

    I drank the cool-aid up during the time of "The Mittani Twitch" Era. I was in college and money was money. I figured if I am going to play games anyway, might as well get paid for doing it. I streamed and got paid. I was not the only one, there was a few of us offered the same thing. I was promised heaps of money during the Archeage shit if I convinced all the goons I played eve with to play Archeage. If I got x number of people to play, I would get paid x number if they stayed longer than a month. Same thing happened with H1Z1. After meeting the CEO of Sony Games at EVE Fanfest, I got offered money to get the goons that played Planetside 2 to play H1Z1. Lead EVE Goons around in a game, get them to have fun and talk about it, get more goons to play, get paid. Was it shitty, sure, did I need the extra money at the time, more so. Like someone said a couple of pages ago. people change. I know ive changed in 15 years of "internet spaceships".

    I do see plenty of people I haven't hung out with in a long time. Arkhamina, Daitengu, Frabba, Kismeteer and others that I have been to meetups with, so nice to see them still around.

ded posted:



    :siren: :siren: :siren: composted post ahead :siren: :siren: :siren:

    I've been going over this in my head for some time now. Thinking about why I am angry about this garbage fire. How the latest problems really started, and who enabled the whole thing.

    The entire GSF leadership broke trust and enabled the Mittani and others to do some really nasty stuff.

    When I got the email about the horn of goondor I was like, ya fuck that noise. Months later I hear about the m2- fight and I look into the current state of goons in eve online. I see that there was an effort to clean things up. I see a guy who is articulate talking about the fight and whats going on in a twitch stream. I think to myself well why not. There is a pandemic and going outside could straight up kill me. Lets give this a shot.

    I find that GSF had a cultural revolution that got rid of toxic gamer stuff like slurs and harassment. Everything was supposed to be cool and hey they even have a sig for LGBTQ+. Women also have a sig and seem to not be constantly gone after in creepy ways.
    This turned out to be smoke and mirrors. The same rot of the old goonfleet was still there.
    I should have seen the warning signs. They were everywhere. Just not spoken out loud until a bit later.

    What signs you ask? The goonfleet forums has a giant wiki that for a very long time was an outstanding place to get general information about eve. As long as you overlooked the nonstop gamer words and slurs in it. The cultural revolution apparently never reached the wiki. It still had some useful things like how to tackle, how to get an overview setup, and how to install a program that is used for goon services and how to modify those things so they don't run like crap or look better. But it was still a giant pile of gamer words and slurs. When leadership was asked about this the answer was "oh we never got around to it". Big red flag right there. The “revolution” to remove these things was in 2012.

    Who shined a light on this giant turd left by leadership? Delta Sqad.

    The goonfleet forums themselves were also full of horrible emotes. Actual nazi emotes, slurs, rape jokes, you god damned name it. The absolute worst of the worst was there. When leadership was asked why is this still here? "oh we never got around to it". Another giant red flag. Again, the “revolution” to remove these kinds of things happened in 2012.

    Who shined a light on this giant turd left by leadership? Delta Sqad.

    Delta Sqad put in effort to clean these things. We were not able to clean it all but got some of it. You can still find slurs and gamer words in the wiki and horrible emotes on the forums. The single person who can remove those emotes is guess who? Innominate.

    What did Delta Sqad get called for shining a light on these turds? Toxic.


    Now fast forward a bit and the giant war has ended. The leader of Queerswarm (the GSF LGBTQ+ sig) is in a fleet and is directly called a slur. When the person who said this was confronted he not only double downed on it but triple downed on it. This was reported to leadership. Cryo made sure that illuminati (the GSF inner circle of leadership) was aware of this. Alterari made sure the guys corp GLD was notified. What did leadership do? They handed the problem off to Innominate. Days later nothing has been resolved. After some digging is done it is found out that the person who slurred "apologized" to his corp CEO and nothing further was done about it. You see he grew up in the 80s and was drunk so no harm no foul right? (this is not a joke this was what was actually said)

    The person that was attacked was never spoken to about this. Never reached out to. In the eyes of the entire GSF no consequences occurred to someone personally attacking another via slurs in a GSF lead fleet. In fact to this very day he still has not had an actual apology of any sort.

    In an effort to get some kind of actual resolution to this the person who was attacked made a call out thread about it in helldump on goonfleet.com. Delta is shining a light on yet another turd leadership left lying around. Delta is toxic. So so very toxic.

    Only after this thread was made was action taken. About 1-2 days later anyways. The offending homophobe was airlocked and all was well. Right? Well no actually the entire corp he was a part of left the GSF because they had been told the problem was resolved before the kick. They went and put the homophobe back into the corp and joined HERO coalition.

    Delta Sqad once again forced leadership to take action on something they said no longer happened in the GSF. Toxic.

    Now the most recent event that grabbed everyone's attention. Mcwolf. During the war Mcwolf joined the GSF and also happened to be a Twitch streamer. She joined up with Delta Sqad because of our outstanding posting and streamed some of the fights we had with PAPI.

    Some of the people who followed her online on various platforms got a bit too stalkerish. She used the available features on those platforms to block/remove the offending people but like many things online they just kept coming back. 2 of those people followed her in eve online as well. They went so far as to join the GSF to continue this behavior. Again, leadership was notified of this. MRCHI asked wolf to send a goonfleet.com private message to Innominate with logs and screenshots of one of the people who had been stalking her, in January. This was to be supplemental information to what MRCHI already had to get this person blacklisted from the alliance. It sat in his box for 6 months before being looked at. When he did read them he described the message as “a wall of text that was not actionable”.

    Behind the closed doors of the inner circle illuminati wolf was called every single misogynistic word in the book and even newer ones that are favorites of PUA artists. She was mocked as another Amber Heard. Here are some of the words said by the the leader himself :

    the_mittani: gosh why isn't anyone DOING SOMETHING about the HURT FEELINGS of this WOUNDED BIRD
    the_mittani: it's all horseshit
    the_mittani: and i bet you the delta drama would be substantially cut down with a couple of particularly dramatic skulls put on fucking spikes

    Wolf felt she had no choice so she took this from a private matter into a public one by posting a thread in helldump on goonfleet.com about the issue. The person who had been harassing her has a mental health crisis in the thread. Everything gets locked down and the stalker is kicked. Wolf is kicked as well.

    When the directorate is asked why was wolf kicked there is no clear answer. One director in the Delta Sqad discord goes ballistic over this and has some rather choice things to say about it all :

    [GEWNS] Kazanir — 07/10/2022
    there is nothing in the text that Wolf wrote to Innominate which is either an allegation of stalking or an allegation of sexual harassment. that is literally not what happened.
    [GEWNS] Kazanir — 07/10/2022
    what did happen, apparently, is that wolf filed this information at MRCHI's request, it didn't contain much actionable, and then it went nowhere, somehow
    [GEWNS] Kazanir — 07/10/2022
    but what did NOT happen here is that someone "sat on a report of sexual harassment for 6 months"

    There are screenshots that show when exactly the PM was sent and when Innominate looked at it.

    Then FNLN comes in. He has a chat with mittani directly whom he has known for a very long time. You have seen these logs. The logs are horrendous. This is what made me see the rot that was there the entire time. The guy who swore up and down and sideways that GSF had a cultural revolution and this kind of shit would not be tolerated was himself spouting things that would get any other member of the GSF airlocked.

    At some point wolf was unbanned from GSF but no one apologized to her other than AmazingJay. Mittani posted some bullshit sorry on goonfleet.com that wolf can’t even read because she was kicked. A bunch of words that sound good but you know had no actual feelings behind them, after you have seen the logs, seen how other issues were handled, and seen the complete dumpster fire that is goonfleet.com.

    Delta went nuclear. Our goodposting went into helldump on goonfleet.com, the eve thread on the somethingawful.com forums, and even to reddit. Logs have been posted of actual conversations that you have already read. Several of us have been outright banned for posting in the “anything goes” helldump. Many others have left on their own out of disgust. Old members from goonfleet have done good posting as well.

    The amount of ~true goons~ who think this sort of thing is acceptable is pretty much zero.

    No no guys. Delta Sqad is toxic you see. Trust the system. Trust the process. Everything is fine and good we had a cultural revolution in 2012.

    If you want real change to happen to GSF the leadership at the top needs to be removed from all levers of power and never be allowed to touch them ever again. This will not happen however. The people at the top have made this game into a personal font of public validation.

    Many other things have come out since I started working on this compost yesterday. Just remember, when you think it cannot get worse, it already was.

    More stuff that has happened while working on this, mittani is now permabanned from SA. inshallah

    TLDR :
    GSF has not changed even with the 2012 “cultural revolution”
    Nearly everything the GSF leadership tells you is a lie unless it involves ISK
    Eve is a bad game and you should not play it

    Thank you for reading my doctorate thesis on stupid internet spaceship guild

TheWeedNumber posted:

    thats a long time to listen to xenuria talk, whats the timestamp where he admits the shit?


22 minutes or so, it's very near the end. He fully admits to the facepunch profile being his, the chatlogs being real, etc.

Groomfleet cannot be allowed to continue operating under its current leadership, and sure as fuck shouldn't be tying itself to or affiliated with this website under any circumstances in my opinion, whatever the fuck they do with the space castles

They, with they including The Mittani specifically by his OWN ADMISSION, knew in 2012 and have actively hidden the truth the entire time.

FirstnameLastname posted:

    did you want more?

    no?

    I'm so sorry - but there is more.

    There is always more.

    cw: Alexander "The Mittani" doing his standard woman-hating victim-blaming ~Goon Emperorship~; i tried to make it kinda popup-book style tho for fun :)
    PART DEUX of ():

    1

    the_mittani: alright i feel i've done my due diligence on borderline bullshit today
    the_mittani: if mcwolf pops up with another wall of text about how some weird interpersonal bpd drama is totally not her fault and we're awful humans for not stepping in because she is incapable of using the block button i will shoot her, too
    the_mittani: this crap - and it is crap - wasted almost 45 minutes of our time because of my insistence upon justice and order, which is cool and good
    the_mittani: but these are not good faith complaints and they are not reportings of crimes or breaking rules in our community
    the_mittani: that's a big signal, fyi - squid ink
    the_mittani: when noraus has to write ten pages to explain why he's attacking brave, it's bullshit

    the_mittani: when you read a drama report and it's pages of he said she said nonsense with lots of ~hurt feelings~ it is probably also bullshit
    the_mittani: if someone called someone a gamer word, that is clear, obvious, actionable, and violated our community rules and standards
    the_mittani: i am not a fan of either of these fucking dramawhores having dug into this, mcwolf or nikki whatever deserve one another and i'm washing my hands of it
    the_mittani: you must learn and understand the nature of the borderline or they will tie your soul in knots, kids
    the_mittani: gosh why isn't anyone DOING SOMETHING about the HURT FEELINGS of this WOUNDED BIRD
    the_mittani: it's all horseshit (the_mittani: the WHOLE POINT OF DUE PROCESS DONT TALK ABOUT EVERYONE'S SHIT IN FRONT OF A WHOLE AUDIENCE)
    the_mittani: and i bet you the delta drama would be substantially cut down with a couple of particularly dramatic skulls put on fucking spikes


    2

    the_mittani: anyway personally i'd shoot the bitch she wasted an hour of our time and appears to be creating more and more and more drama
    the_mittani: but idk how many deltas whose mothers didn't hug them enough are wrapped around her victim-finger
    the_mittani: women are entirely capable of standing up for themselves, blocking assholes, bringing down the hammer, and not requiring a strike team of rescuers


    3

    the_mittani: i may just close helldump the ability to play for sympathy in front of a no-rules mob is that it becomes a magnet for the baculus-the-narcissists and the mcwolf-the-tragic-rescue types
    the_mittani: they can swoop in and hijack public sympathy in a way we're unable to predict or control and this is a recurring issue


    4
    the_mittani: and just like last time, i will simply put heads on spikes over and over again until order is restored, with the occasional oops sorry about that one overly enthusiastic apology thrown in

    But he REALLY means it, he's TOTALLY sorry and isn't a complete sociopath

[Comstar]

Lots of old stories coming out. This one from back when I was for a very short time a Skirmish Fleet Commander.

About The Mittani's (now ex-wife):

PST posted:

    Or, more fully, cheated on her while she was in Russia for her PhD, and decided that the moment the FSB went full 'american spy' on her and prevented her leaving the country was the time to empty the bank account to get together with his mistress, and refuse to hand her dog over to friends of hers, leading to her dad driving from Alaska to get her dog.

    Also, she's now a super successful academic and he's, well, not a lot, but then she was also the successful lawyer and he was the trust fund lawyer who didn't do any real law.

For those around at the time, this is Mandonza:

yeah but im no serial harasser and the only time I've ever posted my dick to ANYONE was because rydis made me do it. I picked the war room as a fuck you to the rest of yall for being forced to either do that or lose skirmish commander around circa 2011. I definitely was a shitbag back in the day and I mighta trolled the odd person or two but I don't harass women or fuck with them. So what the fuck is this bullshit that's coming out of your discord? Like me or don't but don't fucking lie about me b. Fucking hell

So he's saying the female(!) Goonswarm Alliance sky marshal of the time ordered him to do it (WTF?!!?). Back when he posted a full on dickpick to goonfleet.com (and got pemrabanned very shortly there after).

[Phildo]

Hard to believe Mittani is still running things at all, but then Goonswarm was always a shitshow.  Nice to hear that DBRB grew up, though.

[Johny Cee]

Lots of text....  from the tone of which I can't figure out what is meant to be sarcastic or "sarcastic" or genuine.


These people were always shitty and toxic?  Lots of ironic racism and sexism and whatever else covering up really awful shit? 

NO WAY.