Westworld

[MahrinSkel]

If it weren't for the logo, I would be much less open to it. There aren't any other explanations for it that make sense.

--Dave

[Teleku]

Yeah, the logo thing pretty much seals it.

[Brolan]

Damn it, now I'm going to have to watch all the episodes again looking for evidence of the timelines.

[HaemishM]

Damn it, now I'm going to have to watch all the episodes again looking for evidence of the timelines.

Same here. I had hoped to wait until the season was over, but I may not be able to stop myself.

[Brolan]

I rewatched episodes 1 & 2.  In 1 I picked up on something that relates to the situation at the end of the last episode.  In 2 I noticed the Westworld logo was different.  I think I know at least one of the reveals this season.  I'll let you know if it happens.

[MahrinSkel]

Just noticed some things in the second episode:


--Dave

[Brolan]

Just noticed some things in the second episode:


--Dave

In the Third and Fourth episode..

[HaemishM]

Re: the two timelines

[Chimpy]

Just noticed some things in the second episode:


--Dave

[MahrinSkel]

[Ironwood]

Jesus Christ people.  No Wonder you chaps wrote a document about 'Self Evident Truths'.

 

[Teleku]

Re: the two timelines

OK, I'm going to keep spoilering these discussions, but we are like a week past the previous episode and talking about theories.  We can probably break out of this at some point.   

Ironwood may want to avoid.   

But to address your points above:

[Ironwood]

I put it to you that memories that are exact and presented to the audience should be considered different timelines.

I did mention what you're saying earlier, but I used waaaaay less word.   

[Brolan]

Re: the two timelines

OK, I'm going to keep spoilering these discussions, but we are like a week past the previous episode and talking about theories.  We can probably break out of this at some point.   

Ironwood may want to avoid.   

But to address your points above:

Ok, this makes sense to me.

[HaemishM]

I just got done rewatching the 3rd episode (where Dolores meets William at the end). I see your point about the hosts having perfect recall to the point where there is no fundamental difference to their perception between present and past memory. And it's clear now that the showrunners are deliberately fucking with us on the timelines. In that episode, Walter is still with the bandits who attack her, meaning this sequence would have had to happen before he freaked out in the bar with the milk.

The more I try to unravel a coherent timeline, the less it makes sense because there are parts that don't jibe from repetition to repetition unless there are more than one physical model of each host running parallel narrative loops that are all shared by one cloud-based AI. Which would seem to make sense but we have no way to confirm that. It could be sloppy editing but I just don't think so. Deliberate attention to detail has been consistent throughout the series.

[Sir T]

Unless the memories change over time, similar to they way they can in Humans. Or the Hosts deliberately alter them to avoid shame for something.

[MahrinSkel]

I just got done rewatching the 3rd episode (where Dolores meets William at the end). I see your point about the hosts having perfect recall to the point where there is no fundamental difference to their perception between present and past memory. And it's clear now that the showrunners are deliberately fucking with us on the timelines. In that episode, Walter is still with the bandits who attack her, meaning this sequence would have had to happen before he freaked out in the bar with the milk.

The more I try to unravel a coherent timeline, the less it makes sense because there are parts that don't jibe from repetition to repetition unless there are more than one physical model of each host running parallel narrative loops that are all shared by one cloud-based AI. Which would seem to make sense but we have no way to confirm that. It could be sloppy editing but I just don't think so. Deliberate attention to detail has been consistent throughout the series.

The hosts run 'loops', narratives that repeat over and over with minor variations, improvising around missing or extra characters (with exceptions like the woodcutter, when they just can't move forward without someone). Dolores is an unreliable narrator, not because she is trying to deceive but because she has run her loops over and over for 30+ years and can't keep track of which one she is in. Bernard is unreliable in a different way, when he's on screen, we don't see what he can't see.

Like Walter having an argument with someone who isn't there, Dolores is wandering the park reliving scenes. Like us not seeing Arnold in the picture, or the door in the cabin, we are seeing things as they are perceived by the hosts.

Everything involving Dolores after she whispers the code phrase to Maeve is not 'real', it's Dolores reliving prior loops, trying to force together a linear narrative out of different memories of the same places and similar events. There aren't multiple instances of Dolores, there's one that has many memories that are parallel.

--Dave

Edit: As an example: The gun that Dolores digs up and hides is the same gun that she shot the outlaw with. It was his gun that she had pulled out of the holster while he was dragging her, she shot him, buried the gun, and wandered away to have adventures with William. Years later she digs it up, hides it, goes into town to trigger Maeve, then remembers the events that were set off by her use of it.

Her storyline has inconsistencies because it is old memories that don't always fit together, and she sometimes tries to remember multiple events at the same time.

[Brolan]

Anyway my possible spoiler for tonight...

[Chimpy]

Hopkins + Wright on screen at the same time is like a fucking master class in dramatic acting.

[Brolan]

Hopkins + Wright on screen at the same time is like a fucking master class in dramatic acting.

[Threash]

[Teleku]

Another great episode.

Also,

[HaemishM]

[Chimpy]

[HaemishM]

That doesn't mean he couldn't have left it there. I'm more concerned with if he left it there on purpose or was it accidental, or did someone else leave it.

[Polysorbate80]

[Threash]

[Abagadro]

There is a line that Logan says early on about his lawyers trying to find stuff about Arnold but not coming up with anything, "not even a photo" so he was a fairly mysterious guy that wasn't known much.

[Brolan]

There is a line that Logan says early on about his lawyers trying to find stuff about Arnold but not coming up with anything, "not even a photo" so he was a fairly mysterious guy that wasn't known much.

That makes me wonder if Arnold was ever a human.  Maybe he has always been a host?

[apocrypha]

Funny, I found myself wondering last night if *Ford* was a host  

 

[Ironwood]

lol.

[Setanta]

I'm still holding on to the idea that the hosts are the fountain of life and that Ford and Arnold were planning for consciousness to be held in a synthetic body - the hosts sentience was just part of the process - but Arnold/Bernard rebelled against it.

[Ironwood]

Bear in mind both the main chaps are portrayed as rather old.

If I was that age and had simulacrum at my disposal with that amount of 'reality', digitising myself would be something I'd be looking at fucking pronto.

[HaemishM]

To me, that would have been the end goal in the first place. Otherwise, why build synthetic bodies that are stronger, faster and eventually smarter than you if not to join them in your robot body with the strength of 5 gorillas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We-BIY5OEp4

[Ironwood]

I'll be honest, while I saw the rest of it coming, the Bernard thing was a pleasant surprise.  Or would have been if I hadn't been reading this thread so much.

I don't think Arnold's dead though.  He's 'alive' in some sense of the word for sure.