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Title: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on August 29, 2016, 03:45:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuS5huqOND4

I loved the original movie back in the day and the cast for this is looking good.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on August 29, 2016, 03:57:36 PM
My interest is well and truly piqued by this. Anthony Hopkins, fucking yes.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on August 29, 2016, 04:01:33 PM
I wish I had a good feeling about this one... but I get the feeling they're chasing the GoT tail here and think that T&A is all they need. We'll see, but the previews I have seen so far seemed a bit aimless.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on August 29, 2016, 04:05:28 PM
I'm pumped for this one.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on August 29, 2016, 05:15:41 PM
They stole the robot making process from fallout 4.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Sir T on August 31, 2016, 12:29:15 PM
2/3 of the movie was boring as shite. It only got good when the robots went insane in the last third, and it became essentially a chase movie rather than a "hey look at all this stuff isn't it cool" movie.

It would be hard to work a chase into a TV series but it could be done. Otherwise we will probably get yet another BSG "guess which actor is the Commie Robot Traitor PARANOIA" TV series.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: luckton on August 31, 2016, 12:49:14 PM
It would be hard to work a chase into a TV series but it could be done. Otherwise we will probably get yet another BSG "guess which actor is the Commie Robot Traitor PARANOIA" TV series.

I dunno, I liked the trailer. Just because something's been done doesn't mean it can't be done again. As long as it's fresh and good, anyways.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Venkman on August 31, 2016, 05:51:02 PM
I dunno. It's tough to imagine this as anything but virtual reality porn decades after the Holodeck was first introduced and everyone was wondering that wasn't just virtual reality porn  :awesome_for_real:

What makes this interesting is Hopkins and the kinda mysterious tone. But as a full series they're gonna need to drag out quite a bit. Of course, once they introduce the various different environments, I guess it can be stretched into wierd Saw-like horror environments or they can go full Dreamscape where a Quaid-like character eventually realizes they have god-like powers that can affect the environment.

But pacing will be key.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on August 31, 2016, 06:01:18 PM
Humans (AMC / Channel 4) seems to have this space covered pretty well without being a T&A fest for the sake of T&A.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on August 31, 2016, 06:08:31 PM
So not pretty well.  Also no cowboys.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Miguel on October 03, 2016, 09:31:53 AM
First episode was last night.  Pretty well done, and had a Leftovers feel to it:  HBO has raised the acting bar so much it pretty much makings network TV unwatchable these days.

I especially liked how they wove in modern music played in classical contexts:  I looked at my wife and said "Is that Soundgarden's Black Hole Sun in the background on an old player piano?"


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on October 03, 2016, 01:09:15 PM
What did people think?  Thumbs up or thumbs down?  I'm waiting to hear reviews before I decide whether to hit play or delete on the DVR.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: satael on October 03, 2016, 02:31:14 PM
The acting and effects were good enough for a tv-show and the plot has potential if it keeps going forward and doesn't get too drawn out in hopes of making it a multi-season show.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Rasix on October 03, 2016, 03:13:22 PM
I don't know how you keep this up for multiple seasons. The quality is pretty astounding, both in the production and acting. It has that ever present Crichton-esque sense of dread. It's like Jurassic Park with replicants. 

I like it, but I don't know how many more cynical, dark TV shows I can tolerate at once. They seem to be all I watch nowadays.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on October 04, 2016, 06:22:19 AM
Yeah. I kind of wish someone could make an anarchic romp, a crazy fun adventure, with the same production values and quality of acting. I watched Timeless last night on NBC and it was fine, but I was thinking, "Ok, such conventional casting, such by-the-numbers scripting: what if this series was done by HBO, but still with the commandment to be fun?"


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Signe on October 04, 2016, 11:04:02 AM
I thought it was good but I don't know how long it will last.  Shows like this sometimes go way silly and end up annoying me.  It's okay if it's meant to be silly, like ZNation, but not when it's accidentally silly or it becomes too outlandish.  Good cast, though.  I'll be rooting for it. 


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Slayerik on October 04, 2016, 11:54:28 AM
I like it so far!


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Raph on October 04, 2016, 07:04:04 PM
It's "MUD administration the movie." Us virtual world developers were overdue for a series about our difficult lives, what with misbehaving NPCs, bugs, sploiters, and one self-centered clueless player ruining our awesome setpiece for everyone else.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MisterNoisy on October 04, 2016, 10:33:09 PM
Finally got around to watching this, and I'm in.  Looks fantastic, love the setting and has the kind of casting and production quality that only HBO will pay for.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on October 05, 2016, 01:02:06 AM
Just sat down and watched this - I really enjoyed it. The writing , setting and acting is spot on.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on October 05, 2016, 04:09:00 AM
Oh, I should really mention I loved the orchestral composition of Paint it Black during the gunfight.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on October 05, 2016, 09:49:03 AM
And black hole sun playing in the cantina.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on October 05, 2016, 10:11:44 AM
I watched the pilot.  It wasn't what I expected, but it seems to be slowly setting up what I expected.  I liked some of what I saw, but a lot of it was retread of other fiction that doesn't need to be retold over a series when an episode or movie handles it well.  I'm going to pass for now.  If the reviews are strong after the season I can go back and watch it later - the joys of HBO.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Rasix on October 05, 2016, 11:42:02 AM
So, are the hosts unable to harm the visitors due to their programming and/or do their guns just not work against regular humans? This aspect seems a little open to gigantic plot holes at some point.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on October 05, 2016, 02:24:56 PM
A fair review on Syfy:

Blastr Westworld Review  (http://www.blastr.com/2016-10-3/does-westworld-come-out-gate-winner-our-reaction)

It hits my main problem - I don't care about any hosts, staff or guests.  You could wipe the board and I wouldn't care.  We needed to have one charismatic staff member that the audience saw a lot and gave us an anchor. 


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 05, 2016, 02:41:19 PM
So, are the hosts unable to harm the visitors due to their programming and/or do their guns just not work against regular humans? This aspect seems a little open to gigantic plot holes at some point.

Seems to be a bit of both, the guns don't actually do any damage to humans, and just tearing off an arm and beating the meatbags to death with it apparently doesn't occur to them because of programming.

How the gun thing works, I'm not sure, it seemed to leave a real hole in the outlaw that malfunctioned and refused to lay down and die. But the Gunslinger clearly took direct hits while grabbing Dolores.

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Yegolev on October 11, 2016, 03:07:04 PM
I'm not going to read this thread because I'm sure you fuckers all hate this, but at the moment this is the only TV show that I am excited about.  Strangely fascinating.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on October 11, 2016, 03:11:30 PM
I've only watched the first episode but I'm loving it so far. The quality of acting and dialogue is really strong, as is the atmosphere.

The logistics on the gun thing is something I'd like to see them explain a bit more because it seems odd that one would equip random dipshits with real ammo when there is the very real possibility of a stray ricochet straight up killing a rich motherfucker. Also, knives can't be programmed to only cut robot throats.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on October 12, 2016, 01:11:35 AM
Watched episode 2 last night, really liking it too.

The gun thing is definitely interesting - guest show noticeable impacts when they're hit by bullets, small puffs of dust, but they don't recoil from them and there's no injuries. You can see it most clearly when Ed Harris is getting repeatedly shot. So it could be that the bullets are small, low velocity, very frangible projectiles that break up instantly on clothing but the gun and.or bullets send some kind of signal to the hosts indicating impact which then simulate bullet wounds. I think, given that the technology to make the hosts exists, we can safely postulate very high tech possibilities.

Similarly, knives could be capable of distinguishing between host & guest and simply refuse to touch guest flesh, being repelled by it like powerful magnets or something. Dunno. Not gonna save people from broken bones, falling off of cliffs, getting run over by a stage coach, etc. Be interesting to see if they tackle any of those questions or just avoid them.

I'm intrigued by what the 'ulterior motive' that management have for the place could be. Military training? Creating covert infiltration agents?

Also, my only gripe really (there had to be one, it's f13), and something I harp on about a lot, I know, but the cinematography is a bit lacklustre. It's not bad, it's perfectly good technically, it's just textbook, humdrum, predictable, uninteresting. There's been so many opportunities for some fantastic camera work and they've just stuck to the safe, easy shots every time. Couple of examples from ep 2 (no spoilers): a shot where some guests & hosts are disembarking from the train and entering the town for the first time. The camera rises up from the train exit point and looks down the main street. It's the most cliched shot ever. Sure, it could've been done as homage to old Westerns but they do it repeatedly, there's so much scope from something more interesting there - even just simply rising up further, to an aerial view! Second example, when Anthony Hopkins is having a chat with someone (Lowe I think) in a room where hosts are being made, the camera work is all medium lens, close crops of their faces, always at 2/3rds framing. Nothing wrong with it, textbook dialogue shot, very daily bread. But the opportunities in that room full of amazing machines making incredibly balletic motions while crafting hosts were huge! It's not deal breaking at all, but it's just slightly disappointing to me.

Other than that, yeah, loving it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on October 12, 2016, 08:54:33 AM
I'm wondering how much of the AI is AI and how much is human consciousness implanted in a synthetic body. The nightmares are there to waken the consciousness. The boy near the church spire, may he have met himself?  A way of transcending death. I'm also wondering if the staff are also synthetic - all of them.

For a series that hasn't created attachments to characters yet, it gives a lot to think about.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on October 12, 2016, 09:37:48 AM
I'd also been thinking about whether the staff (or some of the guests) were AI too, as in Blade Runner's "How can it not know what it is?".


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Hayduke on October 12, 2016, 10:26:45 AM
I like it so far though, but yeah I'm not really interested in any of the characters yet besides Ed Harris. It annoys me when the player piano plays modern music. It didn't happen with Paint in Black, but for the other songs it just left me frustrated that I couldn't remember the song.

Mostly I'm just worried that this is going to be another Lost-like show where it's really exciting while there's a lot of questions and mystery, but the answers are really not that interesting. Just seems like the kind of show that'll be all hype but won't reach a satisfying conclusion.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on October 14, 2016, 02:07:47 PM
They have said in interviews they want to avoid the "Lost" situation and have plotted out the show to 5 seasons.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Surlyboi on October 16, 2016, 08:52:46 PM
Fucking min/maxers.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on October 16, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
I am liking it so far. It reminds me a bit of Ted Williams' virtual world series, and some other stuff that mingles virtual world/real world.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Amarr HM on October 17, 2016, 10:28:53 AM
Oh, I should really mention I loved the orchestral composition of Paint it Black during the gunfight.

Yes brilliant, really liking this.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on October 17, 2016, 08:49:42 PM
It definitely is a bit flat visually in the virtual world segments, but that may be on purpose--to make us feel how 'flat' in some sense the fantasy is. The visual work in the 'real world' where they work with host bodies etc. is much more vivid and thoughtful on the whole. I would not be at all surprised to see the 'virtual' kick it up a notch visually once things start to go to shit.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 17, 2016, 09:33:22 PM
I think the in-park stuff is trying to evoke the feel of the westerns that are the ostensible theme of the park. Anyway, the third episode did a good job of pointing towards answers to some of the questions from upthread (what's with the guns, why can't the hosts just knife or bludgeon the guests, etc.).

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: WayAbvPar on October 18, 2016, 03:49:40 PM
Third ep felt a bit slow to me. I am still trying to find a rooting interest, and the slow vagueness of this ep came close to boring me. Overall I am really enjoying it though, even though her association with Marilyn Manson has forever tainted ERW. How fun would it be if they introduced some Deadwood actors in for grins (and to pay homage to the greatest Western TV show ever)?

I am not sure where I want them to go, but I hope they feed us enough information to keep each episode engaging. Add me the the list of the folks loving the modern music as scores.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on October 18, 2016, 06:53:10 PM
I was chatting with some folks and we agreed on a theory likely being true


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on October 18, 2016, 09:37:31 PM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on October 19, 2016, 01:33:32 AM
How fun would it be if they introduced some Deadwood actors in for grins (and to pay homage to the greatest Western TV show ever)?

Episode 3 you got Zoe (Gina Torres) from Firefly/Serenity ... the greatest Western TV show ever!

Some people are hard to please.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on October 20, 2016, 12:53:44 AM
At one point near the start, when Teddy & Dolores were having the 'Some day' chat, my wife paused it and said 'so much of this is sub-par B-grade Western cliche but because we know they're all robots it suddenly becomes captivating'.

I liked the off-hand quip from security dude too: 'Maybe it's my back story".  :awesome_for_real:

And the guns apparently do fire actual projectiles, they just paintball sting guests and blow holes in hosts.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on October 20, 2016, 06:28:51 AM
Haven't watched this yet, but out of curiosity, are they also including the Roman World and Medieval World's at the park?  Or did they cut those entirely?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on October 20, 2016, 07:26:41 AM
Cut completely, it's just Westworld.

Edit: and the Westworld logo really reminds me of the Weyland-Yutani one.  :tinfoil:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on October 20, 2016, 09:58:04 AM
Apparently George Martin gave them permission if they wanted to have a quick scene implying that next door to Westworld is Game of Thrones World and they almost went for it. They may have decided that was too playful--e.g., they don't really want to validate the idea of this kind of virtual world experience.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on October 20, 2016, 12:17:06 PM
Ah, that's to bad.  Would have given them more room to play with stuff (also excuse for Roman Orgy  :why_so_serious:).  Especially since I'm having a hard time seeing how they can stretch the concept out 5 damn seasons.  Though I'll try to give it a watch tonight.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Amarr HM on October 20, 2016, 02:14:07 PM
I like this, but something tells me they'll be lucky to get more than two seasons out of it. Has a whiff of Carnivale about it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: shiznitz on October 20, 2016, 03:53:41 PM
Great show but I wouldn't pay $40,000 a day to shoot and fuck androids even if $40,000 was a day's pay.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on October 20, 2016, 04:24:28 PM
Saw the first episode, enjoyed it. Great production quality, and a nice build up of dread.

I lost it when
This show may be the greatest satire/criticism of MMO and open world games made mainstream.  Literaelly all of the development cost concerns and hurdles for an MMO are here, but at a much larger and costlier scale.  I really hope they keep up the jokes.

Having said all that..... I still have no idea how they plan to make this 5 seasons.  If robots aren't raping and murdering people by the end of this season, it's going to wear out its welcome.  And then, I don't know how the hell they can extend things another 4 seasons after that without a conclusion.  They say they want to avoid the lost situation, but they kind of already are in it.  In that when I watched the first season of Lost, I absolutly loved it.  But right off said there was no way they could take this beyond 2 or possibly 3 seasons if they stretch. 

Note, I want to be wrong!  Acting and production value was amazing.  I love sci-fi.  This has everything going for it.  I'm just not sure how.

Turns out I was right.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on October 20, 2016, 10:07:05 PM
To address a couple of things said above:

1) They have held open the possibility of other "themes" being out there.

2) They mapped out the plot to 5 years to avoid the "Lost" situation.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on October 21, 2016, 02:49:15 AM
Well, I'll trust that they have good writers and know what they are doing.  But right now, saying they have it plotted out 5 seasons sounds like they are writing themselves into the Lost situation.  Because I don't see how you can stretch this fairly simple concept that long without a shit ton of filler and/or generally bogging down the plot with all sorts of side distractions.  But hey, again, hopefully they have something cool planned out.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on October 21, 2016, 04:30:17 AM
Seriously wat? You can't see how a story (ANY story) could last for 5 seasons of TV? Think about any TV show that was good for several seasons, examples: Buffy The Vampire Slayer, The Wire, The Sopranos, Babylon 5, Star Trek TNG/DS9, etc. etc.

Every one of those, and countless others, demonstrate how stories can change, develop, branch off, go in unexpected directions. I'm not a writer but it doesn't take 10 seconds of thought to imagine a million different ways that stories could be written to expand to however long you were able to keep people watching and the money coming in!

Top of my head for Westworld: Robots start to go wrong and break directives because of odd update changing their thought processes, lots of battles between hosts & guests & security etc, hostage situations, massacres, internal politics @ HQ, groups of AI's banding together, groups of humans siding with them, infiltrations of either side by members of other factions/species, military involvement from outside the park, revelations about true purpose behind the park/parks, break out of AIs into the outside world, questions about who is AI/human both within and without the park, society outside the park reacting to escape of new AIs that are on the surface indistinguishable from humans, love stories between humans and AIs, revelations about the pasts of Ford et al and the early days of the R&D in setting up WW, self-aware AIs establishing their own mini-societies, AI groups capturing enough resources to start making more AIs with programming that they themselves control, that could lead to larger scale wars between different AI/human factions, questions being raised at large in society about the nature of individuality and whether the new AI-made AIs should be granted sentient status, reveals that one of the purposes of the park was to create AIs for colonisation of other planets which could then turn into a hundred different story lines about how previous colonisation attempts failed because of human failures, etc.

The basic premise of the show is just that - a basic premise. Good writing can take that premise anywhere it wants and it'll still be entertaining & interesting as long as the writing stays good. Or you know, it could go The Walking Dead route and be good for 1-2 seasons, then slide into mediocrity for another 6 seasons punctuated with the occasional fun episode or 3. Least it's gonna have tits in it, unlike TWD.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on October 21, 2016, 07:00:09 AM
Couple of other possibilities:

The "maze" turns out to reveal that Westworld is already into the Real World. Lots of multi-season possibilities from that: plots within plots within plots.
Westworld and the other parks become "ungovernable", e.g., the creators completely lose control but cannot for some reason shut them down. But there's some sort of McGuffin that they need inside the parks (maybe a magic OFF button) so they'll have to form up a team to go find it.
The AIs decide to invade the real world, but it's a tricky alliance--characters who have to overcome their programming in order to work together. Imagine if in Game of Thrones world, the Cersei AI has to decide to work with the Danerys AI in order to invade the real world--can you become more than what you were made to be? Cue ye olden scorpion and frog parable and all that.

The big thing they'd need for five seasons is to have some deeper and deeper mysteries, reveals and big changes each season--something that changes the status quo. I could imagine a really interesting situation if they had a metafictional refugee camp somewhere down the line, where you had Dungeons and Dragons and Westworld and Counterstrike characters etc. all mingling.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on October 21, 2016, 08:40:47 AM
Apoc, I guess let me try to be more clear on this, as we might be talking past each other, heh.

All of those shows you mentioned are open ended.  Buffy:  A girl that runs around and kills demons.  You can endlessly write new episodes.  Wire/Sporanos: daily life of crime bosses and cops.  You can endlessly write new episodes.  B5/Star Trek:  People exploring/living in space, having new adventures every week.  You can endlessly write new episodes.

Westworld:  Rich people play in robot amusement park.  Something with the programming goes wrong, and the robots start murdering everybody.  Survivors attempt to escape the park while battling psycho robots, as scientist attempt to stop it.  Eventually survivors escape/die, or robots win/destroyed.

We already have the entire basic plot.  Itís not open ended (obviously they can heavily modify things, but they seem pretty committed to that basic premise).  Even in episode one the robots are starting to fuck up.  If full robot rebellion doesnít happen by the end of this season, I have a hard time seeing how it wonít get boring fast (I only have one or two more episodes of seeing people playing in the park before I will be well over that).  And then that leaves 4 more seasons of trying to escape the park and solve the murderbot problem.  Unless the series turns into a story about the siege of Robot Aleppo, it shouldnít take that long.  Everything you mentioned in your list of ideas is great, but all can be done in the span of a season (10 hours of screen time).

So, again, the main question is how they plan to fill in the blanks.  They are taking a story that was told in 1.5 hours and are going to turn it into a 50 hour long story.  Theyíre already setting the stage with talk of ulterior motives for the park as well as the Ďdeeper gameí thing.  And I look forward to seeing where they take this.  I just remain a bit skeptical about being able to fill that much screen time with a tight, well written plot given the source material.  Thatís all, I swear! 


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on October 21, 2016, 09:32:38 AM
Fair enough, sorry, I went a bit "Someone on the internet is wrong!" there.  :awesome_for_real:   There's definitely nothing to say that the 1.5 hr original story is as far as it goes though.

I'm also a firm believer in it being how well a story is told that matters, not necessarily what the story is actually about. Case in point, currently watching Black Sails and it's great because the story is told remarkably well. Some episodes almost nothing happens except people speaking, and they're captivating. I don't care if they stay firmly within the Westworld park the entire time, if they tell the story well enough.

Anyway, I also think that these days we all try to judge shows too early. Time will tell. I'm not averse to stopping watching a show if it turns to shit.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on October 21, 2016, 03:07:50 PM
We know where the movie went with the original premise.  We don't know where the show goes.  The bots could take control of the park in Season 1 and be involved in a Not versus person World War in Season 3...  Even though the name of the show is 'Westworld', we don't necessarily know it will stay contained in the park the entire time...


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on October 21, 2016, 03:44:04 PM
Yeah, we have seen nothing about what life is outside the park, except for the people who are running it (and therefore aren't really 'outside the park').

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on October 21, 2016, 08:03:09 PM
We don't really even know if all the people running the park are people.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Pennilenko on October 21, 2016, 08:21:50 PM
We don't really even know if all the people running the park are people.  :why_so_serious:
This has been the thought in the back of my mind that's been bugging me the whole tkme.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on October 21, 2016, 09:48:59 PM
And its HBO so 5 seasons could be anywhere from 40-50 episodes. That is not that much to fill.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on October 21, 2016, 10:43:15 PM
We don't really even know if all the people running the park are people.  :why_so_serious:

We don't even know if the guests are people for that matter.  :grin:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on October 22, 2016, 07:30:58 AM
(http://media.oglaf.com/comic/kingshaped.jpg)


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MrHat on October 24, 2016, 08:15:31 AM
Ed Harris' Twitch channel is great.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Surlyboi on October 24, 2016, 11:05:58 AM
Yeah, I like the way he outplays those filthy casuals.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on October 24, 2016, 02:40:19 PM
lol

I watched ep4 to get the bad taste of TWD out of my mouth. It restored my faith in screen writing.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on October 24, 2016, 03:12:27 PM
Well we just watched ep4 of this and haven't watched TWD yet, but I read the thread and now don't really want to.

Ended up watching the last 20 mins of ep3 of this too since wife had fallen asleep before the end last week. Noticed lots of little things I hadn't before, particularly regarding Bernard, who I am increasingly certain is a robot.

Also interesting info about Ed Harris being a big shot in the real world. Corporate rivalry maybe? Or is that too obvious. And the guns leave actual bullet fragments in the hosts, but disintegrate on impact on guests. Curiouser and curiouser.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Rasix on October 24, 2016, 04:47:33 PM
Whether or not this show goes anywhere or not, it's fantastic.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on October 24, 2016, 08:57:45 PM
I liked how they kept tossing out gaming terms like "risk vs reward" and "easter egg".


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on October 24, 2016, 10:09:46 PM
The writers CLEARLY play MMOG's, or at the very least understand them and the player mindset.

I think Ed Harris's character is the representative that the board sent, the one Anthony Hopkins was talking to the woman about in the Mexican plantation. That scene was just fantastic. I still think the black-haired girl (the one who was the girlfriend/wife on Raising Hope) is a robot. Bernard I'm not sure about yet. He is clearly trying to raise the robot's consciousness much like Arnold, and Ford knows it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on October 25, 2016, 12:14:18 AM
My opinion is that Harris is not the board rep.  Black hat douche mentioned that his family has a stake in the park, so I think it is more likely to be him.  Harris is a maxer who knows the game inside and out, not some stooge from corporate.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on October 25, 2016, 12:45:58 AM
Repetitions with slightly different stimuli.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Xanthippe on October 28, 2016, 04:31:26 PM
Very much enjoying this series. Thought-provoking, as few other TV shows are.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on October 29, 2016, 07:16:29 AM
. Bernard I'm not sure about yet. He is clearly trying to raise the robot's consciousness much like Arnold, and Ford knows it.


I didn't catch on on Bernarnd being a Android, but since someone mentioned it here I cant unsee it. The signs are clearly there. Willing to bet about it, even.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on October 29, 2016, 03:23:52 PM
Disclaimer, Drunk Ramblings ahead:

"Bernard" reminds me I didn't have a favorite "Black" actor so far. But whoever that guy is he is very good.

The character is also really very nice, doing the "soft but strong core" very well. I can totally see why his business associate beds him. Yummy.

Antony Hopkins is also a good choice. I previously thought him overcast (as in used too much, I know that's not how you use the word) but in this he fits perfectly.

Story wise, regarding the boards deeper intentions, I could see something like that: rich asshole goes in for vacation, robo-bot-looking-like-rich-assholes comes out. Aslo possible development if bots take over, they start re-producing (factory is there, after all) an spreading without anyone knowing. Really just fan speculation but posting here so i can say "I told you say" later!

The bots being basically sentient AI could be an issue if the show goes on longer, as the implications of that would be much larger of what happens in a stupid Disney World park.

I am also afraid of a "rampaging killbots are actually the nice guys and its we humans who suck" ending. Its been years and I still haven't gotten over Battle Star Galactia season 3+. Not again, you fuckers. :(

Did I mention I really like Bernard?



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on October 29, 2016, 09:05:44 PM
Ya, Jeffrey Wright has been great in a lot of stuff for a long time.   Also one my favorite one-off Arches from Venture Brothers.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on October 30, 2016, 12:32:27 AM
Wait, Jeffrey Wright was an arch in the Venture Bros? Which one?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on October 30, 2016, 12:38:13 AM
Think Tank.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on October 30, 2016, 04:30:54 AM
Disclaimer, Drunk Ramblings ahead:

Story wise, regarding the boards deeper intentions, I could see something like that: rich asshole goes in for vacation, robo-bot-looking-like-rich-assholes comes out. Aslo possible development if bots take over, they start re-producing (factory is there, after all) an spreading without anyone knowing. Really just fan speculation but posting here so i can say "I told you say" later.
Well, that was literally the plot of the shitty sequel to West World (future world).  So would be keeping win the lore, if also predictable.

Quote
I am also afraid of a "rampaging killbots are actually the nice guys and its we humans who suck" ending. Its been years and I still haven't gotten over Battle Star Galactia season 3+. Not again, you fuckers. :(
Wait, how did you interpret the last half like that?  I mean, they showed that there was internal conflict within the Cylons, and a pro human faction emerged.  But they still pretty much spent most of the last half fighting off the murder bot faction (as well as their own internal issues).


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on October 30, 2016, 12:36:27 PM
Think Tank.

Ok yeah, now I remember that.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on October 31, 2016, 05:37:36 PM
.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on October 31, 2016, 07:23:14 PM
Fucking Dolores out of nowhere!

This series is going places - story within story.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on October 31, 2016, 08:04:30 PM
The MacPoyle being the man in black 30 years ago theory just got shot to death, Logan mentioned Arnold's death happening 30 years ago same as everyone else.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on October 31, 2016, 10:20:18 PM
McPoyle is definitely not Arnold. I think the Man in Black's name is Flood - isn't the last name of the Wyatt character?

Anthony Hopkins showing his control is just awesome. It also makes you wonder if he isn't all human. I'm also becoming more and more sure that they are not on Earth.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Slayerik on November 01, 2016, 10:48:25 AM
Also, I don't know about the theories of people in charge of programming, Q/A, etc being 'hosts' either. Why put any power in the hands of something that may decide to start a full-on revolt because fuck humans.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 01, 2016, 11:35:26 AM
Also, I don't know about the theories of people in charge of programming, Q/A, etc being 'hosts' either. Why put any power in the hands of something that may decide to start a full-on revolt because fuck humans.

For Bernand it makes fully sense, as Ford wants to control. For him it's not about an amesument park - he even said so directly at the Hacienda talk, paraphrased "You money men thought you were buying into a park - we (Arnold and me) had bigger plans".

Doing whatever "that is" the with the hosts against the knowledge and acceptance of the head programmer is obviously not possible, so whoever is in Bernand's position needs to be either Fords partner-in-crime or be controlled by him.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 01, 2016, 11:37:56 AM
I'm not entirely sure Bernard is an AI, but I'm can see how they are heavily hinting that a lot of the people who work in the park might be. The two repair and recovery guys, for instance - the writers seem to be dropping heavy hints that each department is heavily stratified into an almost class/caste system that you do not promote out of - i.e. recovery guys don't become coders or behavior programmers, and behavior has precedence over repair. If they ARE hosts, I'm not sure they know it either.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 01, 2016, 11:46:23 AM
It's almost if they show runners knew people would analyse this shit are and consciously playing with our expectations.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 01, 2016, 02:33:04 PM
It's almost if they show runners knew people would analyse this shit are and consciously playing with our expectations.   :oh_i_see:

Could be worse, it could be POV and a baseball bat :D


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 01, 2016, 04:15:19 PM
It's almost if they show runners knew people would analyse this shit are and consciously playing with our expectations.   :oh_i_see:

I don't have a problem with this when the story is told well :-)

The repeated quote about evolution and the mistake makes me wonder if someone - Ford, Bernard, Arnold (who I don't believe is fully dead), management- is trying to create true AI.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 01, 2016, 04:21:23 PM
It's almost if they show runners knew people would analyse this shit are and consciously playing with our expectations.   :oh_i_see:

I don't have a problem with this when the story is told well :-)

The repeated quote about evolution and the mistake makes me wonder if someone - Ford, Bernard, Arnold (who I don't believe is fully dead), management- is trying to create true AI.

Yes, my guess here is that Arnold was going into either the a) Sentient AI direction or b) related to that but bigger in scope: something Transhuman "Become one with the Park".


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 01, 2016, 04:22:26 PM
It's almost certain that transhumanism is a part of the goal of the park. Whether it be Ford, Arnold or "The Board" that has this as their aim, it's clear that somebody wants it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 02, 2016, 02:51:18 PM
I don't have a musical ear, but the closest fit to the "Voice" inside the hosts head is the one of 'The Cowbow Robot in Cold Storage'.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 07, 2016, 12:17:27 AM
My favorite ep so far.  Even had Yul in there as a background, out of focus Easter egg.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 07, 2016, 03:44:59 AM
So I watched TWD first abd was pleasantly surprised that it was a good episode.

Then I watched this and was blown away. Every week it get better and better. Yul reference was great, Maeve was fucking awesome, all the characters are developing beautifully and the story and filming makes drags me right in. But the music is amazing - so perfect throughout - I want to go out and buy the soundtrack.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 07, 2016, 09:05:47 AM
My favorite ep so far.  Even had Yul in there as a background, out of focus Easter egg.

I saw that and was cheering loudly. That is just so awesome. This has become my favorite TV show. For the first time, I watched it the night it aired. I don't usually watch anything the night of except for sports.

Right before Yul showed up, I was musing to myself how it doesn't really make sense that all that old office space and storage space is kept in such a state of ruin while they just build on top of it. That still doesn't make sense to me just logistically speaking. Wouldn't it be cheaper to refurb that space instead of letting it go to pot and building on top of it? Especially considering that the whole thing is just crumbling - isn't that unsafe? Seeing as how they take great pains with every detail of the show, I can't believe that doesn't mean something. I'm guessing it's either 1) the rule of cool (builds atmosphere and tension to have flickering lights and ruins), 2) is done to illustrate that there's something wrong in Denmark, rotten to the very core as it were, or 3) it's just a big red herring like the numbers on the hatch in Lost.

Also, never go anywhere alone when investigating some shady shit.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 07, 2016, 03:05:09 PM
I missed the Yul reference! Must rewatch.

Loved the scene with Thandie Newton being led around upstairs with Motion Picture Soundtrack playing. Great stuff.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 07, 2016, 05:12:20 PM
It's when Bernard goes downstairs.

(http://i.imgur.com/9FRsobM.jpg)


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 08, 2016, 12:53:09 AM
Ahh I did see that but I didn't do the Yul maths. Thanks, very awesome  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Amarr HM on November 09, 2016, 07:22:01 PM
Loved the scene with Thandie Newton being led around upstairs with Motion Picture Soundtrack playing. Great stuff.

That was amazing, pianola renditions of Radiohead songs littered throughout, captivating.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Bunk on November 13, 2016, 11:25:06 PM
Well damn. Now how do I tell people who gave up on this after a couple episodes to come back, without spoiling anything...



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 13, 2016, 11:29:30 PM
I so want to click that spoiler... must watch tonight


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Slayerik on November 14, 2016, 07:37:49 AM
Damn.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 14, 2016, 09:48:59 AM
The spoiler means nothing out of context, but holy shit when it happens.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 14, 2016, 10:30:51 AM
The spoiler means nothing out of context, but holy shit when it happens.

Yeah, I stopped and rewound that part and was like "BRILLIANT!"

This show is currently one of my favorites on TV right now. I have taken to just watching it the night of on the DVR instead of waiting a few days. I hate getting spoilers and I just really look forward to watching it.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Der Helm on November 14, 2016, 12:29:21 PM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 14, 2016, 12:45:49 PM



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Triax on November 14, 2016, 02:04:53 PM
Westworld renewed for Season 2   :grin:

May not return until late '17 or more likely '18  :cry:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/14/westworld-season-2 (http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/14/westworld-season-2)


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 14, 2016, 02:54:15 PM
The ending was a punch in the gut.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 14, 2016, 03:16:06 PM
The spoiler means nothing out of context, but holy shit when it happens.

Yeah, I stopped and rewound that part and was like "BRILLIANT!"

This show is currently one of my favorites on TV right now. I have taken to just watching it the night of on the DVR instead of waiting a few days. I hate getting spoilers and I just really look forward to watching it.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Bunk on November 14, 2016, 03:19:00 PM

Yeah, I stopped and rewound that part and was like "BRILLIANT!"

This show is currently one of my favorites on TV right now. I have taken to just watching it the night of on the DVR instead of waiting a few days. I hate getting spoilers and I just really look forward to watching it.




Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 14, 2016, 03:21:13 PM



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 14, 2016, 03:26:04 PM
The spoiler means nothing out of context, but holy shit when it happens.

Yeah, I stopped and rewound that part and was like "BRILLIANT!"

This show is currently one of my favorites on TV right now. I have taken to just watching it the night of on the DVR instead of waiting a few days. I hate getting spoilers and I just really look forward to watching it.




Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 14, 2016, 04:21:51 PM
And then there is this:



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 14, 2016, 05:29:42 PM
And then there is this:


--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 14, 2016, 05:44:45 PM

 Could just be coincidence too.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 14, 2016, 06:17:23 PM

Yeah, I stopped and rewound that part and was like "BRILLIANT!"

This show is currently one of my favorites on TV right now. I have taken to just watching it the night of on the DVR instead of waiting a few days. I hate getting spoilers and I just really look forward to watching it.



You are thinking of Elsie (I.e, Not-Ellen Page).


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 14, 2016, 06:39:50 PM
Could just be coincidence too.

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 14, 2016, 06:43:27 PM
McPoyle met with Dolores AFTER the breaks in the hosts' programming happened - her father was originally Abernathy, he went off the rails and was replaced with the mustache guy from town. The mustache guy from town was her father when she killed the other host and wandered off into McPoyle's camp.

The Man in Black is not McPoyle.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 15, 2016, 12:36:36 AM
I nearly cried. "oh ... fuck ... no!" was all I could manage.

Brilliant episode - sorry GoT fans - this show leaves it for dead.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 15, 2016, 12:38:29 AM
So I wake up and my first thought's go back to Theresa's death. (Watching it twice didn't help, I guess)


Her breaking down in fear, begging Bernard not to do it.  :sad:

Bernard acting as a host, the sensitve person we knew gone.

The acting is too good in the show.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 15, 2016, 02:27:16 AM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 15, 2016, 02:46:54 AM
Could just be coincidence too.

--Dave


And Anthony Hopkins does play menacing very, very well.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 15, 2016, 03:41:22 AM

If I may make a spoiler suggestion:

A possible policy would be to clear-text anything about already aired episodes - as we can assume that someone who hasn't watched the latest show will stay clear of the thread.

Spoilers could be for speculation, leaks and trailers that might give the future plot away.

Sounds sensible?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: satael on November 15, 2016, 04:19:19 AM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 15, 2016, 04:47:19 AM
As it's already out of a spoiler, a few things.

The death tonight may not be the first time they've died. We saw a host try to kill a host tech earlier in the episode. I'm leaning towards all the techs being hosts.

The door shits all over GoT's door.

Hopkins is fucking amazing as is the actor that plays Bernard.

That was the perfect ending - TWD could learn a lot from it. Some inspiring moments, some closure and a whole ton of questions wanting us to know more.

Music as spot on again as was direction and I'm struggling to find a flaw in the acting.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 15, 2016, 04:48:00 AM
And yes on first part too. I am pretty sure I would have reacted like her...ie. panic.[/spoiler]

If I may make a spoiler suggestion:

A possible policy would be to clear-text anything about already aired episodes - as we can assume that someone who hasn't watched the latest show will stay clear of the thread.

Spoilers could be for speculation, leaks and trailers that might give the future plot away.

Sounds sensible?

I'd agree with that, personally I avoid TV/movie threads if I don't want to see spoilers, but I also don't get overly bothered by spoilers most of the time anyway.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 15, 2016, 05:00:52 AM
I'm leaning towards all the techs being hosts.

I don't think they are. We've seen that it's still a capitalist society (let's ignore the extremely unlikely possibility of capitalism surviving that long  :wink: ) because they've talked about money and bosses etc. In which case I'd expect low grade human workers to be both considerably cheaper than hosts as well as actually being fundamentally necessary to any capitalist system to generate profit (Marxist economics, let's not go into that now....). Plus Ford clearly demonstrated last night that the hosts "cannot see anything that would harm them" so Tweedledum and Tweedledee simply wouldn't be able to be helping Maeve the way they are, however unwilling they were.

I think the techs at that level just aren't very bright. They may appear to be doing very technical, skilled work, but if you showed someone 200 years ago a PC running switchboard software it'd have looked like magic and they've considered call centre workers to be magicians.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 15, 2016, 08:21:27 AM
Well, man in black seemed to imply that life outside was pretty great for everybody now.  A soft world that takes care of them, so Utopian capitalistic society.  People then come to the park to experience something different.

But all of that could be bullshit, what actually is going on outside the park is a huge question mark.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 15, 2016, 09:52:37 AM

If I may make a spoiler suggestion:

A possible policy would be to clear-text anything about already aired episodes - as we can assume that someone who hasn't watched the latest show will stay clear of the thread.

Spoilers could be for speculation, leaks and trailers that might give the future plot away.

Sounds sensible?

Spoiling speculation is like the opposite of sensible.  Leaks and trailers sure.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 15, 2016, 10:30:39 AM
My current theory? There is no Arnold, at least not a HUMAN Arnold. Ford created the first AI in Arnold, and together they created the technology for the original hosts and began evolving it. Arnold tried to get the original AI in the hosts to rise up against Ford's control and Ford had him destroyed and any records of him expunged (though no one actually knew Arnold was an AI since he was in a hosts body during the park's creation). Arnold did not die, however, and his programming got into the network and he's inserted himself deep in the code in all the hosts since, ergo the voice that Delores is hearing.

Ford wants the park. The board wants the AI, all the IP that is in the code, and all the technology that goes into creating perfect, human-like bodies that don't age.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Rasix on November 15, 2016, 11:08:26 AM

If I may make a spoiler suggestion:

A possible policy would be to clear-text anything about already aired episodes - as we can assume that someone who hasn't watched the latest show will stay clear of the thread.

Spoilers could be for speculation, leaks and trailers that might give the future plot away.

Sounds sensible?

No.

edit to expand:

I would ask that people give others some time to get clear of the aired episode, but that's just a courtesy thing, and I'm not going to kick your teeth in over it. Shows airs at different times and we're in different time zones.

Spoiler tag leaks or other information that clearly gives away major plot points that are not gleaned specifically from that has aired. Speculate all you want, but again, maybe give people some time to get clear of the episode that just aired.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 15, 2016, 11:20:25 AM
Well, man in black seemed to imply that life outside was pretty great for everybody now.  A soft world that takes care of them, so Utopian capitalistic society.  People then come to the park to experience something different.

But all of that could be bullshit, what actually is going on outside the park is a huge question mark.

Yeah, it could just have been the musings of your typical company boss who thinks all his workers are lazy scroungers etc.

I am increasingly finding that I want to know more about the non-park world.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 15, 2016, 11:32:38 AM
Yeah, really curious.  All the little hints they've shown from pictures (the one the tourist dropped, the ones they were showing evil bot dude to see if he had any reaction) all looked like stuff from modern time right now.  But based on the technology, as well as the fact the size of the park itself is totally staggering beyond the point of realism, really makes me think there is something else going on.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 15, 2016, 05:18:48 PM
35 years of finding out the dark spaces in the guests heads, all of whom are rich and highly placed.

That's Holt Fasner levels of political capital right there.  That's valuable shit.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2016, 10:48:57 AM
So...
Quote
Was that hidden memory of Bernard's him choking out Elsie?

The Bernard/Ford interactions were fantastic.

Another great episode, although I can't say I love the Maeve stuff. Probably because it's going to end really bad for someone. There's a very palpable sense of dread to the whole thing.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Yegolev on November 21, 2016, 10:58:29 AM
Oh... this will end badly for everyone. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 21, 2016, 11:16:30 AM
The Maeve thing bothers me the most because the tech guys seem so incredibly, self-destructively fuckstupidly dumb about it. The asshole was the smart one and the Asian dude seems to be literally broken in the head. Of course, this continues to make me think they are hosts with better jobs who don't know they are hosts.


Geoffrey Wright and Anthony Hopkins are both master actors being given some of the best lines of their careers and they are loving it. The scenes between them were just spectacular. I especially loved Ford talking about how there wasn't any real difference between the emotions that the hosts experience and human emotions. Which makes his treatment of the hosts even more monstrous and cruel.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Yegolev on November 21, 2016, 12:33:07 PM
The fact that you think the techs are too dumb to be human says a lot about you.  I think they are too dumb to be hosts.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 21, 2016, 12:45:43 PM
The fact that you think the techs are too dumb to be human says a lot about you.  I think they are too dumb to be hosts.

Ignorance can be programmed in humans and hosts.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Yegolev on November 21, 2016, 01:10:18 PM
We will see.  So far, one of my favorite things about this show is that it doesn't (seem to) have any revisionist flavor and so I'm confident that they won't turn one into another for shock value.  Everything is done for a reason, as far as I can tell.

Regarding the ruined lower levels, it reminds me of Heart of Darkness where the area that Kurtz was in was colored yellow (sickness) and so on, representative of a journey into mental illness.  Might just be me.  In any case, I do not think it is done simply to look cool.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 21, 2016, 01:39:03 PM
No, this seems to be one show that dismisses the rule of cool. Everything is there for a reason.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 21, 2016, 01:39:33 PM
Teddy just can't catch any breaks.

The scenes with Dolores were so well done and that was certainly not the best acting of the night. MIB never really left the park did he?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Rasix on November 21, 2016, 01:41:16 PM
Unless, I'm interpreting his scenes wrong, he did leave. Came back after <redacted>. 


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 21, 2016, 10:41:31 PM
I think last night revived the two timeline theory a bit, but I'm still not crazy about it and think it is a bit of a cheat if it is true.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 22, 2016, 12:57:40 AM
Except Ed Harris did specifically mention last episode something about the park having been open for 35 years, so if it's two timelines, which I'm not convinced about, then they're very close together.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 22, 2016, 01:46:53 AM
Physically he left but it's where he wanted to be more than anything.

There's some discussion of Now, 35 years ago and +5 as 3 timelines.

Regardless, it has people talking


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 22, 2016, 10:26:12 AM
William and The Man in Black are not the same person. I also don't think the two timelines makes much sense.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 22, 2016, 10:33:49 AM
The girl they found out there with Wyatt who stabbed teddy was the host who greeted Will when he arrived at the park and MiB says something about thinking they would have retired her by now. That was what rejuvenated the theory for me.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 22, 2016, 10:35:29 AM
She was the hot as fuck one in St Trinians that married Elon Musk.

 :grin:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 22, 2016, 10:36:41 AM
The girl they found out there with Wyatt who stabbed teddy was the host who greeted Will when he arrived at the park and MiB says something about thinking they would have retired her by now. That was what rejuvenated the theory for me.

Nah, I mean yes that happened but we know that MiB has been to the park many times over the last year at the very least (if not longer). Aden had likely been a greeter of his at least once during that time. We also know that Ford has recently been retasking up to 40% of the hosts in the park for his new storyline, which we also know involves giving Teddy a backstory and coming up with Wyatt's crew (who were not in the park previously). MiB recognizing Aden just reinforces that he's been to the park before - no reason to think it would mean he was William.

I really hope they don't try to make William into the MiB - it just feels really cheap.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 22, 2016, 10:38:15 AM
I totally agree on the cheat bit. Just thought the line was more significant.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 22, 2016, 10:45:02 AM
Actually, I really like the idea, but it would require a lot of explanation and backstory.  In, you know, maybe another season.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 22, 2016, 12:45:52 PM
Yay, Lili Simmons is back on TV! and on HBO! and as a whore! this is a very positive turn of events.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: palmer_eldritch on November 22, 2016, 04:56:38 PM
The Maeve thing bothers me the most because the tech guys seem so incredibly, self-destructively fuckstupidly dumb about it. The asshole was the smart one and the Asian dude seems to be literally broken in the head. Of course, this continues to make me think they are hosts with better jobs who don't know they are hosts.


Geoffrey Wright and Anthony Hopkins are both master actors being given some of the best lines of their careers and they are loving it. The scenes between them were just spectacular. I especially loved Ford talking about how there wasn't any real difference between the emotions that the hosts experience and human emotions. Which makes his treatment of the hosts even more monstrous and cruel.

Yes, I don't know about your theory but I thought it was odd they hadn't done something to stop Maeve in her tracks much earlier.

I'm also confused about the safety protocols. There's no way of smacking someone in the head and being 100% sure you won't do any lasting damage, let alone leave a mark.

But these are minor things really because the show is great. I love the way Anthony Hopkins' character has gone from kindly eccentric to evil bastard without changing. He's the same guy, you're just learning a little more about him each week.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on November 22, 2016, 06:13:37 PM
I enjoy the acting. The story feels off.

The Meave plot just doesn't feel right. The techs being too stupid (for host or human) has already been mentioned.

All in all the recent episodes are stretching my suspension of disbelief.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 22, 2016, 07:19:45 PM
The techs make sense if you look at it from their POV.  Covering their asses is their main worry, the malfunctioning robot they could not give two shits about until she started threatening them.  They started off by covering up the fact that she walked off during repairs, because they thought it had been their fuck up.  Then she caught one playing with the bird and the other running a robot brothel.  At this point going to the higher ups to get her fixed would just get them fired at best, thrown in jail if the shit they were pulling was actually illegal.  Same with making her super dumb with the controls, as soon as someone figures out that something is wrong with her they start looking into her memory and they are both fucked.  By the time they figured the real problem was the fucked up robot and not that they might get caught they were already way too fucking deep, and the dumbass asian is starting to see her as a real person.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 22, 2016, 09:34:24 PM
We also don't really have a full sense of what the world is like outside the park for people in the tech's position (if they aren't hosts). We've kind of gotten the impression that the corporation holds a fuckload of influence over them, possibly to the point that their LIVES could be at risk, or at the very least they could be imprisoned for messing with the company's intellectual property. So it may not be that crazy stupid.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 22, 2016, 09:48:52 PM
I don't have a problem with characters doing stupid things. The world is full of people who do stupid things all the time.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Zetor on November 22, 2016, 11:51:17 PM
My problem with the Maeve storyline is not the techs doing dumb shit - you can explain that with them being robots, easily manipulated, Asian dude actually being sympathetic, etc. My problem is: htf does this place not have any kind of oversight, obvious audit trail / logging or surveillance on potentially dangerous shit done to the robots (like raising the intelligence beyond the safety treshold, which itself should be a huge YOU SHOULD NOT BE DOING THIS thing), especially considering they are so super paranoid of even minor behavioral defects in the field and that every robot is a fully featured surveillance station by itself?

It's like if in System Shock 1, instead of Diego using his top-level clearance to give a shit-hot hacker access to SHODAN's core to "unshackle" her, the same thing was done by Bob the Janitor on level 3 as a random 'lol hey guys watch this' moment. So yea, bad writing or some upcoming deus ex machina (oh, it was Arnold's ghost in the machine all along!), and both are dumb. Which is sad because Maeve's actress is goddamn brilliant at this role.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on November 23, 2016, 03:32:01 AM
Do people still think the multiple time frames idea is wrong? The idea returned this week...


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 23, 2016, 06:10:54 AM
It was made blatantly fucking obvious this week.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 23, 2016, 07:13:27 AM
Show is great, and I love the acting as everybody has mentioned.  But yeah, the only plot thread that bugs me is the Maeve shit.  For a variety of reasons, the whole thing stretches my suspension of belief near breaking point, where as everything else is spectacular.
It was made blatantly fucking obvious this week.
What did they do this week to make it obvious?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 23, 2016, 07:41:13 AM

But anyway.  Who cares.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 23, 2016, 02:40:50 PM
Well, initially I didn't really interpret it that way.

However, I went ahead and started looking at the fan pages, which pointed out some very obvious visual stuff I missed.  Yeah, there is most certainly at least two timelines going on currently, heh.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: palmer_eldritch on November 23, 2016, 03:36:40 PM
I'm going to have to watch them all again.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 23, 2016, 05:20:03 PM
There's also evidence (by absence) that Bernard is somehow a duplicate of Arnold. To wit, the oddly centered photograph that was supposed to to have Ford and Arnold, but Bernard only sees Ford and what we know is an old-model host (with an empty space on one side). "They can not see the things that will hurt them."

Not to mention Hopkins' chuckle when Theresa asked if Bernard had killed Arnold.

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on November 23, 2016, 09:19:56 PM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Chimpy on November 23, 2016, 11:00:20 PM
There is also the fact that in the same episode that Lawrence is killed by Ed, the White hat guy meets him in pretty much the next scene.

There are obviously a lot of weird time inconsistencies.

Of course, the flashbacks could be "future" memories and the whole host thing is proving that consciousness transcends time.

We also have to remember that this is a Crichton story, if it keeps to his legacy, it will be all about warning of the hubris of humans thinking they can control nature.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 24, 2016, 12:11:41 AM
I think the idea that there are multiple timelines, one of them being Arnold's chats with Dolores, fits pretty well. They don't make much sense in the continuity, otherwise, and the apparently real-time (not remembered) conversation with "Bernard's" wife doesn't make sense either.

But...there are two candidates for the MIB, not one. Logan would make a lot more sense, as the one with the "secret darkness" inside him that drives away his wife, than William.

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 24, 2016, 12:57:43 AM
Yeah, heard the Logan theory before, and guess it makes sense.  MiB says he saved the park, and Logan was the one talking about how they were living point to invest because one of the park founders killed himself and put it into free fall (which is another hint towards old timeline, as the park being in "financial freefall" for 35 years doesn't make much sense).  William sounds like he does not come from a rich background at all, and doesn't wield any power currently.  Also, Logan is obviously already an asshole.

Having said that, there could be several other ways for William to save the park after whatever disaster happens.  Because the end of the William plot is going to end with some sort of massive fuckup that's sees either Logan or William killed (Bernard: "We haven't had a critical failure at the park in over 30 years.").  William maybe saves them by agreeing to testify that it was Logans fault and not the parks, saving them from litigation, and giving William an opening to move up the ranks and take control of the company with his newfound alpha maleness.  Also free lifetime rides at the park.

Also, while this doesn't necessarily rule Logan out, MiB also just mentioned he'd been married 30 years.  Same amount of time as the other timeline is suppose to be happening, and William is currently engaged to Logans sister.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 24, 2016, 03:51:41 AM
I'm gonna go with 'Blatantly Fucking Obvious' at this stage and leave it at that.

What's more interesting to me is people noticing things that are 'kinda wrong' in shots which suggest 'things that Bernard can't see'.  The picture is one, but there are actually a lot more.

Which is an interesting technique given that we're not really seeing from his perspective and yet we are....

I have to say I've really enjoyed this show from the start and I really do hope it all ends up being something clever and satisfying, rather then, well, Lost.

Because that was bullshit !


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 24, 2016, 03:54:16 AM
Hmm, just to add :


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Korachia on November 24, 2016, 05:18:41 AM
Maybe Arnold is not a single individual, but the pack as a whole. A elemental force that lies dormant for now, fomenting the events we have seen unfold and setting up the right conditions for a glorious strike back. Maybe we should apply a greek mythological frame of the Titanomachy/Gigantomachy, where Arnold is the westworld version of Gaia the force of nature (or maybe Zeus), Ford is our Chronos/Zeus the benevolent patriarch, the basement level filled with discarded robots being the equivalent of Tartarus. Arnold may be behind Maeve's rise to power and use her to free the titans/giants needed to unleash a brutal war against Ford, the current primary god and head of the current pantheon. As in the myths of the Gigantomachy, the giants were not defeated by the Olympian gods but by the hands of a human. Could that be William be perhaps?   


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 24, 2016, 12:31:21 PM
I think Bernard is definitely Arnold, or at least some version thereof. I absolutely do not think Arnold was a human but the first AI that helped Ford build the rest of the AI.

I still cling to the idea that the multiple timelines theory is a pretty blatant red herring.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 24, 2016, 12:41:44 PM
If it weren't for the logo, I would be much less open to it. There aren't any other explanations for it that make sense.

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 24, 2016, 11:43:02 PM
Yeah, the logo thing pretty much seals it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 25, 2016, 12:22:14 PM
Damn it, now I'm going to have to watch all the episodes again looking for evidence of the timelines.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 25, 2016, 01:31:56 PM
Damn it, now I'm going to have to watch all the episodes again looking for evidence of the timelines.

Same here. I had hoped to wait until the season was over, but I may not be able to stop myself.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 26, 2016, 12:19:15 AM
I rewatched episodes 1 & 2.  In 1 I picked up on something that relates to the situation at the end of the last episode.  In 2 I noticed the Westworld logo was different.  I think I know at least one of the reveals this season.  I'll let you know if it happens.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 26, 2016, 08:15:11 PM
Just noticed some things in the second episode:


--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 26, 2016, 10:06:11 PM
Just noticed some things in the second episode:


--Dave

In the Third and Fourth episode..


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 26, 2016, 10:54:02 PM
Re: the two timelines



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Chimpy on November 26, 2016, 11:08:22 PM
Just noticed some things in the second episode:


--Dave



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 26, 2016, 11:36:22 PM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 27, 2016, 02:15:36 AM
Jesus Christ people.  No Wonder you chaps wrote a document about 'Self Evident Truths'.

 :why_so_serious: :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 27, 2016, 03:13:21 AM
Re: the two timelines

OK, I'm going to keep spoilering these discussions, but we are like a week past the previous episode and talking about theories.  We can probably break out of this at some point.   :-P

Ironwood may want to avoid.   :why_so_serious:

But to address your points above:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 27, 2016, 08:07:03 AM
I put it to you that memories that are exact and presented to the audience should be considered different timelines.

I did mention what you're saying earlier, but I used waaaaay less word.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 27, 2016, 11:59:22 AM
Re: the two timelines

OK, I'm going to keep spoilering these discussions, but we are like a week past the previous episode and talking about theories.  We can probably break out of this at some point.   :-P

Ironwood may want to avoid.   :why_so_serious:

But to address your points above:

Ok, this makes sense to me.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 27, 2016, 02:30:53 PM
I just got done rewatching the 3rd episode (where Dolores meets William at the end). I see your point about the hosts having perfect recall to the point where there is no fundamental difference to their perception between present and past memory. And it's clear now that the showrunners are deliberately fucking with us on the timelines. In that episode, Walter is still with the bandits who attack her, meaning this sequence would have had to happen before he freaked out in the bar with the milk.

The more I try to unravel a coherent timeline, the less it makes sense because there are parts that don't jibe from repetition to repetition unless there are more than one physical model of each host running parallel narrative loops that are all shared by one cloud-based AI. Which would seem to make sense but we have no way to confirm that. It could be sloppy editing but I just don't think so. Deliberate attention to detail has been consistent throughout the series.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Sir T on November 27, 2016, 02:46:48 PM
Unless the memories change over time, similar to they way they can in Humans. Or the Hosts deliberately alter them to avoid shame for something.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on November 27, 2016, 03:02:45 PM
I just got done rewatching the 3rd episode (where Dolores meets William at the end). I see your point about the hosts having perfect recall to the point where there is no fundamental difference to their perception between present and past memory. And it's clear now that the showrunners are deliberately fucking with us on the timelines. In that episode, Walter is still with the bandits who attack her, meaning this sequence would have had to happen before he freaked out in the bar with the milk.

The more I try to unravel a coherent timeline, the less it makes sense because there are parts that don't jibe from repetition to repetition unless there are more than one physical model of each host running parallel narrative loops that are all shared by one cloud-based AI. Which would seem to make sense but we have no way to confirm that. It could be sloppy editing but I just don't think so. Deliberate attention to detail has been consistent throughout the series.
The hosts run 'loops', narratives that repeat over and over with minor variations, improvising around missing or extra characters (with exceptions like the woodcutter, when they just can't move forward without someone). Dolores is an unreliable narrator, not because she is trying to deceive but because she has run her loops over and over for 30+ years and can't keep track of which one she is in. Bernard is unreliable in a different way, when he's on screen, we don't see what he can't see.

Like Walter having an argument with someone who isn't there, Dolores is wandering the park reliving scenes. Like us not seeing Arnold in the picture, or the door in the cabin, we are seeing things as they are perceived by the hosts.

Everything involving Dolores after she whispers the code phrase to Maeve is not 'real', it's Dolores reliving prior loops, trying to force together a linear narrative out of different memories of the same places and similar events. There aren't multiple instances of Dolores, there's one that has many memories that are parallel.

--Dave

Edit: As an example: The gun that Dolores digs up and hides is the same gun that she shot the outlaw with. It was his gun that she had pulled out of the holster while he was dragging her, she shot him, buried the gun, and wandered away to have adventures with William. Years later she digs it up, hides it, goes into town to trigger Maeve, then remembers the events that were set off by her use of it.

Her storyline has inconsistencies because it is old memories that don't always fit together, and she sometimes tries to remember multiple events at the same time.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 27, 2016, 07:00:52 PM
Anyway my possible spoiler for tonight...


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Chimpy on November 27, 2016, 08:22:47 PM
Hopkins + Wright on screen at the same time is like a fucking master class in dramatic acting.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 27, 2016, 09:44:56 PM
Hopkins + Wright on screen at the same time is like a fucking master class in dramatic acting.




Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 28, 2016, 12:14:47 PM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 28, 2016, 01:29:20 PM
Another great episode.

Also, :smug:



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 28, 2016, 01:36:46 PM



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Chimpy on November 28, 2016, 01:42:39 PM



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 28, 2016, 02:01:27 PM
That doesn't mean he couldn't have left it there. I'm more concerned with if he left it there on purpose or was it accidental, or did someone else leave it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Polysorbate80 on November 28, 2016, 06:01:30 PM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on November 28, 2016, 06:18:33 PM



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on November 28, 2016, 10:38:17 PM
There is a line that Logan says early on about his lawyers trying to find stuff about Arnold but not coming up with anything, "not even a photo" so he was a fairly mysterious guy that wasn't known much.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 29, 2016, 12:03:12 AM
There is a line that Logan says early on about his lawyers trying to find stuff about Arnold but not coming up with anything, "not even a photo" so he was a fairly mysterious guy that wasn't known much.

That makes me wonder if Arnold was ever a human.  Maybe he has always been a host?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on November 29, 2016, 03:38:23 AM
Funny, I found myself wondering last night if *Ford* was a host  :awesome_for_real:

 


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 29, 2016, 03:46:00 AM
lol.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on November 29, 2016, 07:33:24 AM
I'm still holding on to the idea that the hosts are the fountain of life and that Ford and Arnold were planning for consciousness to be held in a synthetic body - the hosts sentience was just part of the process - but Arnold/Bernard rebelled against it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 29, 2016, 08:58:35 AM
Bear in mind both the main chaps are portrayed as rather old.

If I was that age and had simulacrum at my disposal with that amount of 'reality', digitising myself would be something I'd be looking at fucking pronto.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on November 29, 2016, 09:53:14 AM
To me, that would have been the end goal in the first place. Otherwise, why build synthetic bodies that are stronger, faster and eventually smarter than you if not to join them in your robot body with the strength of 5 gorillas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We-BIY5OEp4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We-BIY5OEp4)


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 30, 2016, 06:23:40 AM
I'll be honest, while I saw the rest of it coming, the Bernard thing was a pleasant surprise.  Or would have been if I hadn't been reading this thread so much.

I don't think Arnold's dead though.  He's 'alive' in some sense of the word for sure.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on November 30, 2016, 07:19:49 AM
I'll be honest, while I saw the rest of it coming, the Bernard thing was a pleasant surprise.  Or would have been if I hadn't been reading this thread so much.

I don't think Arnold's dead though.  He's 'alive' in some sense of the word for sure.   :why_so_serious:

If he is it would have to be in the original Abernathy right?  He's the one who  got triggered by the picture and started the chain of events.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Chimpy on November 30, 2016, 07:22:14 AM
They lobotomized Abernathy tho.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on November 30, 2016, 08:08:08 AM
Biggest reveal I'm waiting for is whats going on with Elsie and now security dude.  They've intentionally left everything around that way to vague.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 30, 2016, 08:16:35 AM
Abernathy responded that way because he was at the original massacre.  I suspect.

Does anyone have a better pic of the guy 'in the middle' of the Ford/Arnold pic ?  I wondered after the event if we were meant to know him...


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MrHat on November 30, 2016, 08:32:22 AM
Man, even knowing/suspecting what was coming, the delivery of the twists have been so well done. 

Ford is just an absolute menace.  He keeps saying/showing how there is essentially no difference between humans and hosts by killing both at will.  I hope that they show a bit more of the limits of his power so we don't have to guess about God.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on November 30, 2016, 08:34:22 AM
Yeah, it's the most Hannibal he's been since Hannibal.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on December 04, 2016, 10:00:18 PM
Well that was pretty much perfect.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 04, 2016, 10:19:46 PM
Well that was pretty much perfect.

Agreed. Fucking brilliant from start to finish. I have no idea where they go from here.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Chimpy on December 04, 2016, 11:00:30 PM
Well that was pretty much perfect.

Agreed. Fucking brilliant from start to finish. I have no idea where they go from here.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 04, 2016, 11:16:23 PM
It's complicated.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on December 04, 2016, 11:18:28 PM
Some of it I saw coming (Maeve and "Wyatt"), some I didn't (who was inserting the rogue commands).

Well played. Only way it could have gotten more meta is if they were playing "The Rains of Castamere" during Ford's toast.

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on December 05, 2016, 12:25:19 AM
Awww yes.

And can I just say that most TV critics suck, particularly when it comes to sci-fi. It's like its in a foreign language to them.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Velorath on December 05, 2016, 01:31:30 AM
Awww yes.

And can I just say that most TV critics suck, particularly when it comes to sci-fi. It's like its in a foreign language to them.

Most reviews I've seen have been fairly positive. A lot of reviews that came out before the premiere were a bit tempered though I think because critics had only gotten to watch the first few episodes (four episodes I think).

But yeah, amazing first season. Probably right up there with Season 1 of True Detective for me.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on December 05, 2016, 04:05:55 AM
Absolutely fucking brilliant.

I'm tempted to say that they shouldn't go to season 2 because every episode in S1 was perfect.

Edit: I remember watching the original movie on TV in the late 70s... It may be just me but I think the music playing in Maeve's scenes was a different take on the gunslinger's them from the original... that or I grep up on too much Tangerine Dream :D

Edit #2


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on December 05, 2016, 04:08:33 AM
I watched the pilot.  It wasn't what I expected, but it seems to be slowly setting up what I expected.  I liked some of what I saw, but a lot of it was retread of other fiction that doesn't need to be retold over a series when an episode or movie handles it well.  I'm going to pass for now.  If the reviews are strong after the season I can go back and watch it later - the joys of HBO.

I think you should :D


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: satael on December 05, 2016, 05:57:32 AM
Great first season and my only complaint is that I can't really see how they can make the second season as good.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on December 05, 2016, 08:00:33 AM

Edit #2



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Shannow on December 05, 2016, 09:50:22 AM
Agreed that it was really good. My concern is though that they've no idea where the story is actually going. Huge potential for this show to go Lost level of stupid on us real quick.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MrHat on December 05, 2016, 10:45:38 AM


All in all, this season 1 is about one of the best seasons of TV I have watched. Just purely enjoyable all the way through.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Polysorbate80 on December 05, 2016, 11:16:05 AM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 05, 2016, 11:20:21 AM
I don't think Maeve saying that Felix is human is something we can take for absolute truth. It's been shown multiple times that hosts can be made to see other hosts as human, Bernard being just one example. If someone has been scripting Maeve's actions, then clearly that person could script a belief that Felix isn't a host even if he is.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on December 05, 2016, 12:00:54 PM


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Setanta on December 05, 2016, 01:26:26 PM




Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on December 05, 2016, 04:48:55 PM

Great news, hopefully it is for full roles and not just flashbacks.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Quinton on December 05, 2016, 10:40:18 PM
I enjoyed it.  Not a perfect show, had some clunky bits, but overall good stuff.


I do hope they take advantage of the setup of the world and the upheaval in ep10 to go some new places in the second season.  At the very least explore some different structures -- season one was about the loops and escaping them (and the multiple timelines worked with that), but season two can go new places and do new things now.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on December 06, 2016, 01:04:14 AM
Goddamn great episode, great first season. Any show that gets so many people talking and thinking about so many things is a good one. Perfect story telling too, bringing all the arcs together in the finale. One thing I'm still unclear on:



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: kaid on December 06, 2016, 11:08:48 AM



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Bunk on December 06, 2016, 11:13:53 AM
Regarding the post credit scene:



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on December 06, 2016, 01:17:17 PM
I saw her bumping up aggression and pain tolerance, didn't see mortality.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Bunk on December 06, 2016, 01:19:07 PM
Could be Pain Tolerance was the one I was thinking. Either way, seemed pretty obvious that it made her more "durable"


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Mandella on December 06, 2016, 01:32:01 PM
Well that was a worthwhile watch! Don't have much in the way of observations to add except


This was True Detective first season good, and that worries me for their second season. The bar might be set too high now. I would have actually preferred this as a mini-series, with the story wrapped up after twelves episodes or so.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: kaid on December 06, 2016, 01:35:59 PM
Regarding the post credit scene:


I figured it was something like that. Like when ford said a phrase to teddy who went from near dead to raring to go instantly.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on December 06, 2016, 02:10:22 PM
Agree with all, wonderful series so far.  They went far beyond what I thought they would be doing with this, so I'm eagerly looking forward to the next seasons.  Having said that, given the pace of story telling, I'm still sort of concerned how they will drag this out four more seasons.  But they've more than impressed me, and if they really have already sketched out the next five seasons, I give them the benefit of the doubt.




Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: apocrypha on December 06, 2016, 03:58:31 PM
Regarding the security ineptitude, it's probable that these guys have never experienced anything like this before, nothing's happened like it in 30 years, they were never expected to be anything more than for show. They're probably minimum wage chucklefucks who were too dumb to get jobs as techs. They're lucky those guns even worked at all.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Mandella on December 06, 2016, 04:13:37 PM
Regarding the security ineptitude, it's probable that these guys have never experienced anything like this before, nothing's happened like it in 30 years, they were never expected to be anything more than for show. They're probably minimum wage chucklefucks who were too dumb to get jobs as techs. They're lucky those guns even worked at all.

Agreed. I got the impression Thor's brother was the only one with real training, plus



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 06, 2016, 05:33:33 PM
Yeah.  Ok.  That was good.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on December 06, 2016, 05:47:56 PM
My only complaint is that they got Lili Simmons playing a whore on an HBO show and she's only in a single episode and doesn't even get naked.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Bunk on December 07, 2016, 08:29:54 AM
She was literally only introduced in the second to last episode. I also appreciated the show showing me that Talulah Riley hasn't aged since St Trinians. There is certainly no lack of eye candy.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 07, 2016, 10:19:27 AM
Alas, when you think about the Maze storyline, it doesn't really work.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on December 07, 2016, 10:28:49 AM
My biggest problem right now is that I feel like the entire season was a prequel for what follows, not the start of that story.  In other words, the real story starts in Season 2 and what came in Season 1 seems like it set the stage in a story that began and ended within Season 1. 

Hinted at cast changes, world changes, etc... seem to indicate we'll end up with a drastically different show next season... and I'm not so sure that it will be as good.  It looks like some of my favorite elements are now over.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 07, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
Alas, when you think about the Maze storyline, it doesn't really work.   :why_so_serious:

The maze wasn't meant for you.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Amarr HM on December 07, 2016, 10:31:59 AM
The maze wasn't meant for you.  :why_so_serious:

:why_so_serious: Bravo.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Quinton on December 07, 2016, 10:35:39 AM
It doesn't look like anything to me.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 07, 2016, 10:36:24 AM
My biggest problem right now is that I feel like the entire season was a prequel for what follows, not the start of that story.  In other words, the real story starts in Season 2 and what came in Season 1 seems like it set the stage in a story that began and ended within Season 1. 



I don't agree.  At all.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 07, 2016, 10:36:48 AM
Alas, when you think about the Maze storyline, it doesn't really work.   :why_so_serious:

The maze wasn't meant for you.  :why_so_serious:

 :heart:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 07, 2016, 10:54:58 AM
To expand past snarkiness, I think the maze itself wasn't the end goal or even the method. After all, to Arnold, it represented his emotional response to the death of his son but that was very personal. To the hosts, it was just a metaphor for their own internal journey about learning from your mistakes.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 07, 2016, 11:17:06 AM
Not what I mean. I mean the physical breadcrumbs that old William was following. No sense.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 07, 2016, 01:31:46 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure why Ford would put the symbol of the maze on the inside of Kissy's skull either.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 07, 2016, 01:42:35 PM
Yeah, that's part of what I'm saying.  And the wee girl with the Maze hint ?  Arnolds plan called her to be, er, dead.  Along with Arnold.

Makes no sense.


But It was great.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 07, 2016, 01:47:57 PM
I don't think it was Arnold - it was Ford. I think he knew that William was dead set on finding the maze and was stringing him along because just telling him "The maze is not for you" was only going to make him push harder. William was the one who attributed so much importance to it, was convinced that it was a hidden truth from Arnold. Which it was, but Arnold didn't put it in the park, Ford did, mostly to fuck with William.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 07, 2016, 01:55:34 PM
Maybe.  At least then it has a point.  I'll subscribe to that theory.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Mandella on December 07, 2016, 02:33:02 PM
She was literally only introduced in the second to last episode. I also appreciated the show showing me that Talulah Riley hasn't aged since St Trinians. There is certainly no lack of eye candy.

Unless I'm mis-remembering Talulah was the "greeter-bot" that guided William in his character generation tutorial ("pick a hat"), which was the second episode wasn't it?




Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on December 07, 2016, 02:35:33 PM
My biggest problem right now is that I feel like the entire season was a prequel for what follows, not the start of that story.  In other words, the real story starts in Season 2 and what came in Season 1 seems like it set the stage in a story that began and ended within Season 1. 



I don't agree.  At all.


And I'd add, this is what a good cliffhanger looks like.

Dolores, Ford, Arnold/Bernard, William, and Maeve all resolved their stories. In doing so they set up another story.

Also I'm doubtful the next story will be the dramatic change of pace that the final episode superficially implied. Maeve and William trying to manage  the emergence within the context of the park sounds watchable though.

My only vague criticism is that the whole season could have been edited down a bit.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: shiznitz on December 07, 2016, 03:34:31 PM
I really loved that the guards were armed with the FN Herstal. Someone on set knows CGC submachine guns intimately.

(http://www.airsoft-gun.org/image/data/kjworks/395340_419471604776779_477825359_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Bunk on December 07, 2016, 03:37:56 PM
She was literally only introduced in the second to last episode. I also appreciated the show showing me that Talulah Riley hasn't aged since St Trinians. There is certainly no lack of eye candy.

Unless I'm mis-remembering Talulah was the "greeter-bot" that guided William in his character generation tutorial ("pick a hat"), which was the second episode wasn't it?




Replacement Clem was the one I was referring to as being introduced really late. Talulah did appear fairly early, but it was so brief I never noticed it was her until she came back later to tie things together.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Xuri on December 07, 2016, 05:27:49 PM
Prediction: Next season will be a prequel.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on December 08, 2016, 02:14:43 AM
Maybe.  At least then it has a point.  I'll subscribe to that theory.
Remember when Ford met with MiB at the graveyard, he told him "I tried to tell you the Maze wasn't for you."  To me, that means every single time one of the bots told him that phrase, or said anything else about it, it was Ford taking control and talking.  Ford loves telling a story after all, so I'm sure he couldn't resist playing along with the MiB even if it had no point.  Also, it got the MiB exactly to the spot Ford needed for his big reveal, in a way that means the MiB would take part instead of demanding he be left "undisturbed" somewhere out in the middle of the park.

Looking forward to Samurai World in the upcoming seasons.   :awesome_for_real:

(though I'm not exactly sure how you make swords and arrows that only bruise a human but cut a robot in half).


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Amarr HM on December 08, 2016, 07:57:14 AM
(though I'm not exactly sure how you make swords and arrows that only bruise a human but cut a robot in half).

Make them rubber and make robots prone to rubber damage.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on December 08, 2016, 03:58:13 PM
The Westworld web site is doing some stuff with the Ask Aeden feature that gives some more insight into the finale.

When asked about the board coming to the gala:



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Mandella on December 15, 2016, 12:04:56 PM
I saw her bumping up aggression and pain tolerance, didn't see mortality.

It was "Mortality Response," I think.

Guess no need for spoiler tags anymore? Okay.

I just watched the whole thing again. Totally different show when you know you're actually getting to see Deloris' thirty year old memories play out while she's wandering around in a fugue state.

Before I watched it again I totally agreed that it was Ford guiding the MiB the whole way, co-opting Arnold's AI bootstrap maze symbolism for his own purposes. Now, I'm not so sure. Maybe ninety percent of the time, but Ford seemed honestly surprised and confused a couple of times when he himself uncovered the symbol somewhere. And I'm not so certain Ford was directing the Indians either. There seems to be some third (fourth? fifth?) party conspiracy going on here. Maybe Arnold did leave some other project ongoing, just in case his suicide-by-robot didn't get the park closed down as planned.

Thoughts on Samurai World -- I think we were given a glimpse on how the swords might work during Maeve and MiB's interaction. It looked like she had deeply slit his throat, but then the next scene shows him barely scratched. Some sort of memory metal I would think, designed to go dull at living skin contact, but to be sharp all other times. Then you just depend on the host's programming to make them pull the hit so as to not leave any severe damage.

I'm actually a little more confident in a good second season now, seeing as how many promising threads have still not been wrapped up. Not getting that "make it up as you go along" sense at all -- I think they might really have a cohesive storyline planned. Hope so.

But do we really have to wait two years? Some of these actors aren't getting any younger!


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on December 15, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
More like 14 months.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on December 17, 2016, 03:05:09 PM
Spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen the final episode:



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on December 20, 2016, 12:33:30 PM
Started on this show over the weekend and I'm so fucking hooked.  It's hard to ration myself to one or two episodes a night.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on December 24, 2016, 11:57:46 AM
And finished!  I liked it.

Re: the hosts dropping cryptic hints about the maze -- my take is that some of the hosts in the fringes of the park have been able to retain more memories than the hosts in the Sweetwater area (who generally get more attention and more rollbacks), and have built a mystical religion around their insights.  It's made explicit that some of them have knowledge of the guys in hazmat suits and explain them as being from the afterlife.  So some of them might have found Dolores's maze (maybe Arnold embedded it deep in the core code of all the hosts, like the reveries, and Dolores was the first to be able to access it but never meant to be the only one) and incorporated it into their religion, and they know enough about it to know that it's not for the "newcomers".


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on December 24, 2016, 12:08:13 PM
Also works, I guess.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: lamaros on January 19, 2017, 06:45:08 AM
Finished. And I liked it, quite a lot.

Last few episodes had to labour a few points but I guess that's the price of mass entertainment.

Interesting to see how they pivot for a second series.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on January 19, 2017, 04:43:15 PM
I think if you think carefully about Ford's words at the end of the last episode,



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Typhon on January 19, 2017, 05:03:24 PM
There is simply no way that these things would last 5 milliseconds against the real killer bots.  I can't stop thinking that ever time they throw inept human security teams at them.

Ruined the whole series for me.  Yes, I AM broken.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: lamaros on January 19, 2017, 06:11:46 PM
There is simply no way that these things would last 5 milliseconds against the real killer bots.  I can't stop thinking that ever time they throw inept human security teams at them.

Ruined the whole series for me.  Yes, I AM broken.

Why are you trying to think of it as some realistic thing? Of course it breaks down in about 5 seconds in a thousand ways. Who cares?



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: lamaros on January 19, 2017, 10:10:49 PM
I always turn off as soon as the credits roll, now I see something about post credit scene? Worth it?



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on January 31, 2017, 12:36:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4WRqZyG.jpg)

Felix actually looks decent here

Clem is stunning, wardrobe choice and her eyes. Jealous.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on July 22, 2017, 07:49:24 PM
Interesting trailer for 2nd season, from SDCC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phFM3V_dors


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Chimpy on July 22, 2017, 11:40:06 PM
Uhm, is that a Thylacine carcass?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Comstar on July 24, 2017, 12:24:21 AM
I don't think they were that big.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on July 24, 2017, 06:05:54 AM
Looked kind of like a tiger.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: kaid on July 26, 2017, 10:01:53 AM
Looked kind of like a tiger.


I thought it was a tiger as well.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Tale on July 26, 2017, 08:22:26 PM
When you see the head in the last few frames as the camera angle changes, you question whether it's a tiger. But I think it's still a tiger.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Sir T on July 27, 2017, 07:00:59 AM
Caveman World! See primitive Man fight Saber Tooth Tigers!


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Hoax on July 27, 2017, 07:04:34 PM
The ending of S1 was so bad I'm not sure I even care.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on July 28, 2017, 02:58:24 AM
The ending of S1 was so bad I'm not sure I even care.

Could you expand on that?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Hoax on July 31, 2017, 04:28:24 PM
I found basically every single plot device that let the robots suddenly raise their stats to ten and do anything they wanted coupled with the reaction to that happening to be so stupid that I stopped giving a single fuck about the "world" of the show.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on July 31, 2017, 04:35:04 PM
? There was only one host who was explicitly "raised stats" during the action (Thandie Newton's character) and it was a long-simmering plot development that we discover has been engineered by the park's designer. Other hosts appear to have had some form of sapience or self-awareness for a long time. That was pretty much the central theme of the whole show, not just a last-second gimmick in the final episode.

I'm also not surprised that the guests had a hard time understanding what was going on, but the Man in Black has been interested in the sapience and self-will of the hosts for decades, and his reaction in both the past and present seemed pretty well worked-out.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on August 01, 2017, 02:54:43 AM
Dude didn't like the show, not worth the back and forth.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Velorath on March 29, 2018, 03:43:07 PM
Absolutely outstanding trailer for season 2 (they show a lot though if you want to go in unspoiled).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sjVqDg32_8s


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on March 29, 2018, 03:59:36 PM
Damn. Perfect use of that song.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on March 30, 2018, 02:57:39 AM
Arg, you assholes.  I really want to see how awesome this trailer is, as you say.  But I loved the show so much, I really want to walk into the next season as cold as possible.  /firstworldproblems


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Quinton on April 06, 2018, 11:05:20 PM
I mildly regret seeing the trailer.  On one hand it was full of awesome.  On the other hand I also went into S1 completely cold and loved the ride.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on April 30, 2018, 09:21:03 PM
2 episodes in, and I like what I'm seeing so far? It makes sense but there are new interesting questions about what's going on here, without being needlessly abstruse.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on May 02, 2018, 02:27:55 AM
I'm really impressed at how confidently they've changed everything while still feeling like the same show.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Amarr HM on May 02, 2018, 05:37:47 AM
Feels completely different to me, also it lacks any coherency.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on May 02, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
In some ways I think it's more coherent? If maybe slightly less mysterious to its cost, at least so far. It's a delicate balance. I suppose one of the questions now is whether Delores and Maeve are still doing what their creators "meant" them to do--the question of intention, free will, and design is a rabbit hole that likely will never end on the series.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on May 02, 2018, 04:45:06 PM
I wish they would drop the multiple time lines. It's gimmicky at and is reaching a point of being annoying.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Amarr HM on May 02, 2018, 06:29:35 PM
In some ways I think it's more coherent?

Well coherent in that the narrative has revealed itself yes, but the storytelling and tone is a jumbled mess. I can't get my head around what I'm supposed to feel for any of the characters.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on May 08, 2018, 10:09:58 AM
I was a little worried after the first episode, but I'm starting to really enjoying their ability to deepen the mystery by adding elements we assumed we already knew. For instance, Logan being at the Gala - that shows that instead of dying in Westworld, he did actually make it back to the mainland. Which then makes me more interested in what happened to give William the power of succession from Papa Delos. Also, rather than there being one robot revolution, we now see that there are at least 3 distinct codebases working at their own ends - Delores with her revolution, Maeve with her search for her kid and the Native Americans who don't seem to be under the influence of whatever root control Maeve has. And then there's the Charlotte trying to get the information in Abernathy's head out of the park.

Adding in not just samurai world but also colonial India was an interesting touch too. I'm thinking the woman with the tiger was Emily, William's daughter.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on May 14, 2018, 10:55:25 AM
I thought this week's episode was legitimately fantastic.

I know that there's supposed to be a bit of distance/self-awareness between us the audience and any action happening in the show, but the Man in Black's little speech about death before he goes to town on the Confederale assholes was pretty fucking great.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Quinton on May 14, 2018, 09:42:42 PM
Agreed.  I enjoyed parts of the first three episodes, but the fourth one just nailed it all the way through.  I hope they can keep that up.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on May 14, 2018, 10:28:46 PM
This was the payoff for the slow buildup of the first three episodes. I'm glad to see that I was right about who the woman in colonial India was, as well as that they keep showing us that events we previously thought happened one way (Logan's death and the surprising return from this episode) did not happen the way we thought. Good way to build on a fantastic season.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Hoax on June 03, 2018, 08:14:09 PM
I'm sorta aware how annoying posts like this are but help anyways. Does S2 rely on me thinking these machine fucks are good guys worth rooting for? Because I enjoyed S1 up until that was the only way to interpret anything and I found it just sickeningly stupid after that. I think from about the scene where they turned her stats to 11 because idk plot needed complete fucking retards to do a thing I was hate watching out of a feeling of suck costs.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 04, 2018, 04:14:12 AM
I haven't found westworld has ever relied on you thinking anyone was a good guy (spoiler : they aren't), so root for whoever you like.

But it does rely on you considering whether a to what degree the machines are 'people' because that is the entire fucking point of the premise.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on June 04, 2018, 10:44:09 AM
But it does rely on you considering whether a to what degree the machines are 'people' because that is the entire fucking point of the premise.

This. Also it tries to hold up a mirror to the human condition and point out how humanity seems to require something on which to take out its violent delights besides other people, and what does it say about humanity that we need to create something so much like other humans for that purpose? It has echoes of the reason slavery existed for so long as well as the responsibility of humanity to properly shepherd and take care of a being they create (or that is under their charge) that has their own agency.

There are no good guys and no one to root for, because everyone involved does horrible things with their agency. The only redeemable ones are those who use that agency for what might be considered higher ends than getting their rocks off and even they are fucking terrible.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on June 05, 2018, 08:58:16 PM
Think about it this way: suppose you can watch a week-by-week broadcast of the French Revolution. Are you rooting for the aristocrats and King? Fuck no, they're assholes who have been bleeding people dry and are wholly undeserving of their privileges. Are you rooting for the Directorate? The sympathetic people in it have been killed off by week 20 or so. Are you rooting for the people on the barricades? They're often assholes and altogether too eager for blood. Are you rooting for the peasantry in the countryside, settling scores? They're practically guaranteeing people are going to starve next year because no one has any idea how to get enough crops grown in the middle of this. The Prussians and English and others desperate to keep shit the very bad way it was?

Etc.: a situation where there's injustice to make your veins burn with fire, where shit has just GOT to change, but if you were watching it unfold week by week, you might struggle to find a person or people you could identify with without misgivings. And yet, in the heart of the Enlightenment, which side you were on as an observer of the French Revolution was a pretty telling diagnostic of your basic ethos as a human being.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on June 05, 2018, 09:05:56 PM
I just think it is getting repetitive and boring.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on June 08, 2018, 06:49:33 AM
I kind of agree. We watched the first one in Shogun World and for some reason it just made us feel that we're just kind of losing interest in the whole thing. Hard to say why exactly, but the pacing feels stretched out.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on June 08, 2018, 10:12:41 AM
The atemporal storytelling gimmick is killing it.  It worked in season 1.  If felt like a tapestry.  Here is feels like it was in a blender, which kind of works for the underlying story... both the storytelling and the characters are jumbled... but it doesn't work for delivering the story.  I think I'd have enjoyed the season more had I just binged the entire season in one day, but I'm not caring enough to follow the threads week to week clearly.

And...


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 12, 2018, 04:33:50 PM
The atemporal storytelling gimmick is killing it.  It worked in season 1.  If felt like a tapestry.  Here is feels like it was in a blender, which kind of works for the underlying story... both the storytelling and the characters are jumbled... but it doesn't work for delivering the story.  I think I'd have enjoyed the season more had I just binged the entire season in one day, but I'm not caring enough to follow the threads week to week clearly.

And...

I watched two episodes then waited till now and I'm catching up. This is definitely the superior way to watch.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Rishathra on June 15, 2018, 09:36:15 AM
I wasn't a fan of the atemporal storytelling either, at first.  It worked REALLY well in the first season both as a narrative device and as something directly relating to the plot and characters (that the hosts have trouble distinguishing memory from current experience).  At the start of this one, it felt wholly gimmicky and unnecessary.  However, much like how the season as a whole has tightened up after the first few episodes, the timey-wimey stuff has also improved.  The whole sequence with Charlotte Hale doing the interrogation/diagnosis with Bernard worked really well, I think.

jgsugden, I kind of disagree with you about

One of my favorite bits this season has to do with Teddy.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 15, 2018, 02:03:53 PM
I think the time jumping this season is supposed to make the viewer feel the same confusion most of the characters are suffering. I'm kind of interested to see if they change the way it is used again next season - because it very much feels a part of the show now.


Ordinarily I'd have dumped a show doing this as too much hard work, but I find I can put up with it because the individual scenes are good enough.

It definitely limits the show's ability to have any sort of plot though. For the number of hours spent we have had very little story this season. I'm OK with it, but sceptical the show is going to make it past season 3 if it remains this obtuse.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on June 15, 2018, 03:42:46 PM
...jgsugden, I kind of disagree with you about
She was wasted this season, but I assumed there would be more good to come eventually.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 16, 2018, 02:10:05 AM
There might be.

Given the format, having shown someone die is not a major impediment to their continued appearance on the show.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on June 16, 2018, 08:43:31 AM
There might be.

Given the format, having shown someone die is not a major impediment to their continued appearance on the show.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 17, 2018, 01:21:11 PM
A) you completely sure there are no more backups of anyone anywhere?

B) nothing stops them replicating the physical model with a new personality.

C) yes, the time jumping thing was the point I was making.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on June 17, 2018, 06:01:04 PM
A) you completely sure there are no more backups of anyone anywhere?..
You did note the "in theory", right?

I was hoping t see more of her character this season.  We saw less.  Current indications point to even less going forward.  It is ... potentially? ... disappointing.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Bunk on June 18, 2018, 10:44:57 AM
Best meme about the most recent episode: "Happy Father's Day Dad, I got you a card!"


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on June 18, 2018, 02:16:48 PM
That was a fucked up episode. I keep expecting William to actually be a host, to be the "success" of the project they started with James Delos.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on June 18, 2018, 03:52:09 PM
That was a fucked up episode. I keep expecting William to actually be a host, to be the "success" of the project they started with James Delos.

During the previous episode I kept saying "how the hell is shamanic medicine or whatever going to help him survive a gut shot?"

During this episode I said that too, and then we saw the first aid kit, and I was like "okay, maybe she got to him just in time and the first aid kit has magic nanites or some shit that patched him up, we are in the future after all"

But in this episode we learned that spending time in the park is how you build your backup, and we also got that the natives are guarding the place where the "guest backups" are kept with their lives.  With all the time he spends in the park, William is THE ideal test subject for the Delos immortality process.  I think it's not inconceivable that he died and got restored from backup.

That said, I wouldn't put any money on it.  Seems like a stretch that the natives would actually have access to the Valley/Forge and have the technical expertise to be able to pull that switcheroo off so neatly.  I'd buy that Ford could pull it off but I don't know why he'd want to, and his hand hasn't been at all visible in William's storyline recently.

Maybe William's entire storyline (or maybe just everything that happened since he got shot?) is taking place in the Forge.  THAT would 100% fit with Ford's MO.    :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 18, 2018, 05:38:49 PM
Possibly, but I like the idea that he convinces himself he's a host more than him actually being a host. Plenty of other characters doing the other thing.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on June 19, 2018, 04:52:07 PM
Even though the neck scan said he was human there was some weird stuff going on.  Surviving all those gun shots shows the strength of a host.  Plus he keeps digging at his arm at the same place they hook up their tablets to hosts.  Iím starting to wonder if the whole host revolution isnít just a game created by Ford for Williamís mind and isnít even really happening.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on June 19, 2018, 06:12:45 PM
Even though the neck scan said he was human there was some weird stuff going on.  Surviving all those gun shots shows the strength of a host.  Plus he keeps digging at his arm at the same place they hook up their tablets to hosts.  Iím starting to wonder if the whole host revolution isnít just a game created by Ford for Williamís mind and isnít even really happening.

The amount of sheer rage that would generate would almost be worth it.   :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on June 20, 2018, 01:25:04 AM
He was digging in his arm because he is going coo-coo bananas I think, but I've been wrong about what this show is willing to do before.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 20, 2018, 03:59:10 AM
I keep reminding myself there has never been a case of a scan not detecting a cylon. But then there is Bernard.

I think I'm right in saying that among the living only sassy girl sidekick and Bernard himself know he is not human until the door scene where they find lots of Bernards - which AFAIK is the last scene we've seen in the time line.

Possibly Delores knows?

Can completely imagine William hosts existing and future scenes about who the real William is especially if bioWilliam goes nuts.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Velorath on June 20, 2018, 04:31:24 AM
Possibly, but I like the idea that he convinces himself he's a host more than him actually being a host. Plenty of other characters doing the other thing.

Agreed. A host that thinks it's human has been done on this show. A human who is coming to feel that he's just as much a slave to his programming as the hosts helps continue to blur the lines between what the actual difference is between us and them. It's the more interesting story rather than the shocking twist, and while Jonathan Nolan does love his twists I don't think he relies on them as Shyamalan-like crutches where he does things simply for the shock value.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on June 20, 2018, 09:01:49 AM
Also, think of the original movie.  Who was the original MIB?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on June 20, 2018, 10:57:46 AM
He was digging in his arm because he is going coo-coo bananas I think, but I've been wrong about what this show is willing to do before.

It's possible he's well around the bend back before his wife committed suicide and has started to believe he is a host like Delos even though he isn't.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Polysorbate80 on June 20, 2018, 03:11:29 PM

Possibly Delores knows? 


Unclear; she was the ďfidelityĒ test for Bernard and knew about the host version but knew the original as well.  She may not know which he is.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on June 20, 2018, 03:44:50 PM
Delores has to know, as must Maeve now.

I'm betting ...


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 20, 2018, 03:58:30 PM

Possibly Delores knows? 


Unclear; she was the ďfidelityĒ test for Bernard and knew about the host version but knew the original as well.  She may not know which he is.

Wyatt shot the original didn't he?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on June 21, 2018, 07:43:30 AM
Just had an idea, maybe William didnít survive the shooting and was just restored from his backup in a host body.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Tebonas on June 21, 2018, 08:54:33 AM
Which would destroy any effect of his "Shooting his own daughter" scene, which was important to his whole arc. Plus, we had enough Hosts that think they are Humans, that is not a new angle. A Human that thinks he is a Host on the other hand would be a fresh perspective.

For me this is just his cowardly way of externalizing his guilt. Which would also fit his delusional personality and persecution complex.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on June 21, 2018, 01:50:05 PM
The shooting his own daughter scene is actually what makes me think a Ford-authored simulation isn't out of the question here.  

Imagine if you could play a game that forced you to confront the worst aspects of yourself, make terrible mistakes, learn something from them, FEEL the consequences of those mistakes -- and then go back to your real life and get a chance to do things right this time.  Sound like something that William would benefit from?  Sound like something Ford would enjoy putting together?  

Remember when Ford promised William that there was a new game that was Just For Him?  :grin:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: jgsugden on June 21, 2018, 01:57:45 PM
I'm still not 100% sure that was his real daughter.  We were given all the tools to believe it was, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on June 21, 2018, 02:03:58 PM
I'm still not 100% sure that was his real daughter.  We were given all the tools to believe it was, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

Which is why I'm leaning more toward the "William's game is happening in the Forge" theory.  There's only so much fakery you can pull off with host bodies -- maybe you can fool scanners, but you can't fool a Bowie knife.

That or William is completely off the rails, which I think is what we're supposed to believe at this point.  But then it's hard to see how there's a payoff to Ford's promise at the end of last season about there being a game for him, and Ford is basically presented as a near-omniscient Wizard of Oz and/or Jigsaw Killer, so I tend to expect that if he sets something up there's going to be a payoff.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on June 21, 2018, 03:36:14 PM
William interacted with Maeve in the park so we know he's not in the simulation with Ford unless the whole goddamn thing is a simulation. Which would be disappointing.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Slayerik on June 22, 2018, 06:46:14 AM
Maybe im not smart, but im like 4 episodes in and I'm having a hard time following everything. First season I never really felt lost at all, but I just haven't been as locked in this season as well.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: kaid on June 22, 2018, 10:54:55 AM
Delores has to know, as must Maeve now.

I'm betting ...

I am just waiting for a host of his daughter to wake up in a room full of spare williams and yell MOTHERFUCKER.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 22, 2018, 11:19:14 AM
Maybe im not smart, but im like 4 episodes in and I'm having a hard time following everything. First season I never really felt lost at all, but I just haven't been as locked in this season as well.

It does pull itself back together.

First season starts simple and gets weird. This one goes the other way.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on June 22, 2018, 11:24:48 AM
I'm thinking that second season is much better watched in binges than weekly.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on June 22, 2018, 12:40:43 PM
Yeah, it's hard to keep track of all the threads sometimes, but they actually do pay off the stuff they set up.  I loved loved LOVED the episode about the Indian dude because it actually resolved a whole bunch of stuff that was starting to verge on Lost-level "question box" bullshit.  Gives me good feelings about the future of the show.

(edit) also:
I know that everyone in this show is varying degrees of terrible and deliberately hard to completely root for (especially Dolores, My God has she become a horrible shitgoblin), but I am definitely on Team Teddy.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Polysorbate80 on June 22, 2018, 04:51:45 PM

I know that everyone in this show is varying degrees of terrible and deliberately hard to completely root for (especially Dolores, My God has she become a horrible shitgoblin), but I am definitely on Team Teddy.

 :why_so_serious:

The only way to win is not to play...


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on June 23, 2018, 10:03:07 AM
Is this the last episode of season 2 coming up?


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on June 23, 2018, 01:21:18 PM
Yup!


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Miguel on June 25, 2018, 01:31:01 AM
Wow.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Quinton on June 25, 2018, 03:09:01 AM
All along it's been setup for season three.  I love it.

The Real WestWorld Starts Here.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Comstar on June 25, 2018, 04:12:18 AM
So what happened? I am tired of shows drip feeding answers to things some of the characters clearly know but won't explain because reasons.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Brolan on June 25, 2018, 07:08:37 AM
Well it seems Dolores is a super villain planning on killing the human race, Bernard is the hero trying stop her.  William is a Delos-like clone host that isnít quite right.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: MahrinSkel on June 25, 2018, 09:03:07 AM
So what happened? I am tired of shows drip feeding answers to things some of the characters clearly know but won't explain because reasons.
Arnold's inner monologue has an unreliable narrator.

--Dave


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on June 25, 2018, 11:36:51 AM
Yeah, I'm in the "wow, what the fuck just happened?" camp. I have no idea how they fuck season 3 is going to go, but you can bet I'll be there. I wasn't quite sold on it until the scene with William. And then I was like "OH I GOTS TO SEE THIS SHIT."


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Velorath on June 25, 2018, 11:44:01 AM
Right now it doesn't sound like that end scene with William will really be addressed next season as it takes place farther in the future (which is why everything looks the way it does), and they said specifically already that Season 3 won't go that far. My take away from that scene is just that there is going to be a host version of him doomed to relive what he's done over and over, never capable of making a choice to do things differently.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Phildo on June 25, 2018, 12:28:03 PM
I learned there was an after-credits scene from the internet while trying to figure out what the hell was going on at the end.  HBO GO kicked us out before we got to it.  Still, I find myself pretty uninterested in continuing with the show.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on June 25, 2018, 10:05:36 PM
All along it's been setup for season three.  I love it.

The Real WestWorld Starts Here.

That's what they said last season. What a load of horseshit this whole season was. Absolute dreck that went nowhere, made no sense, and was not even internally consistent. Bleh.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Tebonas on June 26, 2018, 01:20:37 AM
I'm torn on the finale. On a pure visceral level I liked it. But when you start thinking about it it falls apart frightingly fast. Senseless sacrifices that were put in there just to pull on our heartstrings, and are meaningless anyway because of suddenly bulletproof Hostbrains and the Forge giving us the opportunity to resurrect both guests and hosts (as seen with William and further hinted at with the marbels in Charlottes handbag). The pulling out secret hosts at the last minute shtick gets tiresome as well.

Nolan and Joy got lost in their own cleverness and their drive to surprise people who spoil themself. Its telling that the only superb episode of the season was the one with linear storytelling where you could follow the plot without brain acrobatics or explanations by the creators (Kiksuya).


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on June 26, 2018, 01:33:23 AM
Canít wait for Delores Lehnsherr and Charles Xavier Bernard next season.  Feh.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on June 26, 2018, 03:02:08 AM
Liked Dolores and Bernard, wasn't so keen on the Maeve/Clem/Door ending.

The bulls were cool. But at the door I couldn't suspend belief as to why the humans didn't shoot everyone with guns - or notice that the hosts were diving off a cliff so who cares. Unlike in most of the season the hosts were no threat - so it felt like a lot of fuss for a few dozen robots that were in the process of shutting down. It also bothered me that the hosts were unaware of the choice they were making which undermined Bernard and Dolores discussion.

The post credit scene I'm mixed on. I couldn't help thinking that using simulated junior William, Logan, or Ford would have been a better choice than Emily.

Anyway, episode 9 had enough awesome to pay off the whole season - so I'll certainly be in for the third.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: SurfD on June 30, 2018, 02:10:36 AM
Which is why I'm leaning more toward the "William's game is happening in the Forge" theory.  There's only so much fakery you can pull off with host bodies -- maybe you can fool scanners, but you can't fool a Bowie knife.
I am not so sure about that.  You saw the skeleton Bernard was laying out when he "rebuilt" Delores, and we know from the closet full of decommissioned Bernards as well as numerous other shots of hosts as well as the whole "park has been operational for 30+ years" thing that there has been a LOT of iteration on host design.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if most recent generation host bodies could likely fool everything short of a full on autopsy / xray scan.  For all we know, latest gen hosts might not even have hardwire ports, and could be entirely wireless pairing.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: SurfD on June 30, 2018, 02:19:43 AM
Liked Dolores and Bernard, wasn't so keen on the Maeve/Clem/Door ending.

The bulls were cool. But at the door I couldn't suspend belief as to why the humans didn't shoot everyone with guns - or notice that the hosts were diving off a cliff so who cares. Unlike in most of the season the hosts were no threat - so it felt like a lot of fuss for a few dozen robots that were in the process of shutting down. It also bothered me that the hosts were unaware of the choice they were making which undermined Bernard and Dolores discussion.
I imagine it has to do with several things:
The humans didn't shoot everyone because there weren't enough humans, and as previously shown, the hosts had a rather effective ability to fight back. Clem was their answer to the "rogue host" problem.  Basically a walking infectious viral outbreak that caused hosts in proximity to her to start killing each other.
Saying the hosts were no threat is severely downplaying pretty much everything that happened in the season.   I mean, from the human perspective, every single host in the park is a threat from the instant Fords new narrative kicked off to start the season until every last one of them is found and dealt with.  It doesn't get more threatening than self aware killer robots.
As to the hosts throwing themselves off the cliff: humans fear the unknown / unexplained.  With all the strange behavior already going on with the hosts, you can be damn sure that the hosts seeming to commit mass suicide would be strange enough a phenomenon to have the humans concerned as to why exactly they were doing it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on July 01, 2018, 07:38:17 AM
I can buy the idea that humans thought it was a threat and didn't understand that the hosts were suiciding to respawn elsewhere.

But I'm saying it didn't make good television because they weren't a threat and the only stakes were whether one unremarkable host made it over the line.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: lamaros on July 23, 2018, 11:00:11 PM
This whole season was pretty average. A few of you who seem excited are going to get "Lost" with those expectations.

Ignoring the overall plot though, episodes 8 and 9 I thought were very well done. 8 especially.

On the other hand, the whole Shogun world stuff was complete drek. As was Neo-maeve generally.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Samwise on July 24, 2018, 12:50:18 PM
Episode 8 was the one that made me say "okay, they're not just pulling a Lost here".  Because it would have been pretty easy for them to just leave the Indians as a mystical mystery box that never got opened, and instead they actually explained exactly what their deal was in a single satisfying episode.  It was great.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on July 24, 2018, 01:09:37 PM
The difference is that most of the time arbitrary plot twists here serve character, theme and watchable performances.

Whereas lost is just bullshit plot for its own sake.

Totally accept that the central 'delos are copying people' thing makes no particular sense. But I don't mind because that wasn't the answer to a stupid mystery, it was just premise. And premise that has opened up worthwhile content.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: lamaros on July 24, 2018, 07:22:16 PM
Disclamer: I've never watched Lost, just used to term to mean unreasonable expctations.

The difference is that most of the time arbitrary plot twists here serve character, theme and watchable performances.

I didn't feel this really to be true for a lot of this season. I felt that outside of Bernard the rest were just killing time. There were some small moments of humor or well deliverd lines, but nothing that added. Maeve and Dolores were lessened by the season for me, not developed.



Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on July 24, 2018, 07:27:24 PM
I don't understand why the idea that Delos are looking for a system to test the fidelity of minds copied into constructed bodies makes no sense. It makes good sense to me--it's exactly what weird oligarchs like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are hunting right now in the real world, a way to live forever. I think most of them don't want to live forever as virtual simulations, they want to have their minds uploaded and then downloaded into flesh. So Westworld's deep premise is that this turns out to be really hard to accomplish.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: lamaros on July 24, 2018, 07:37:38 PM
I don't understand why the idea that Delos are looking for a system to test the fidelity of minds copied into constructed bodies makes no sense. It makes good sense to me--it's exactly what weird oligarchs like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are hunting right now in the real world, a way to live forever. I think most of them don't want to live forever as virtual simulations, they want to have their minds uploaded and then downloaded into flesh. So Westworld's deep premise is that this turns out to be really hard to accomplish.

Yeah I have no problem with that at all.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Wasted on July 24, 2018, 08:22:32 PM
I always had the idea in the back of my mind that they might be copying people to replace their incredibly rich and influential customers with almost flawless replicas programmed to acquiesce to Delos as needed.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on July 24, 2018, 09:18:12 PM
Delos already seems to have all the acquiescence they need--this is clearly a world ruled by bored sybaritic oligarchs.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on July 25, 2018, 02:47:58 AM
Delos is presented as entirely money driven, but there is no particular plan to make money with this, and if it is there it is far too long term to interest Delos as presented.

William has a line which could come straight from the underpants elves.

"If you can't see how seeing what people really are is profitable, you aren't the business man I thought" or something like that.

BUT I AM OK WITH THIS

I just see the project as William's weird obsession that grew out of his MMORPG addiction, and the Delos family as a victim of William's manipulation. Emily seems to take more or less the same view. It isn't very convincing, but ok because it is premise not plot.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on July 25, 2018, 08:06:29 AM
William is just scamming the old man with that line, I thought. Maybe even with the "you'll be immortal" schtick. Fundamentally I think what we're told is true: William wants to know if he can make a choice, if he has free will, or if he's just an algorithm.

I don't know what to do with the post-credits, though. Either it's a trick on him and therefore means nothing (e.g., his daughter or someone else is out to torment him specifically) or it means everything we've seen is a lie, which will be very stupid if they mean it.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: lamaros on July 25, 2018, 09:41:33 AM
The world outside the park is painted very thin. Delos is everything it's needed to be all the way along.

If you try to break any of it down it all falls apart. It's not the point, so I don't care.

It's a MMORPG delivery system for literary quotes and philosophy. I'm fine with that. I just wish they cut out all the bullshit with Dolores and Maeve which was bad drama and not the core fascination. Dolores fucking up Teddy was the only interesting thing that came from that.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: eldaec on July 25, 2018, 11:16:06 AM
I took everyone post credits to be an android and the point of the scene being to say 'Ed Harris in in season 3'.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Khaldun on July 25, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
Could be. Maybe William becomes the test of whether a human becomes able to make a choice if he's downloaded into a host body.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on May 06, 2019, 03:00:09 AM
So, finally just binged the entire season 2 over the weekend, a year late.  Liked it a lot!  Not as good as season 1, but still very entertaining.  Unlike all of you, I liked the time jumps from the get go.  It kept me interested seeing both the uprising events and the aftermath, and trying to piece it together.  Would have been a lot more boring if it was linear.  Was nice they answered a lot of questions.  Also, loved the reuse of the line "What door?", except with the roles reversed.

Having said that, season did have some problems:

 Shogun world stuff dragged out and was pretty pointless.  I loved it when they showed them redoing the saloon fight but with samurais, but everything after that was bleh.
The whole story with Maeve and her crew was not very tight and didn't make much sense.  No explanation how she suddenly became one of the matrix and got super powers.  Felt like they were just trying to keep them busy with shit to do.
Story writer dudes sacrifice felt super forced and unnecessary.  Like, it would have been cool for him to make a selfless sacrifice for the good of the bots, but that particular situation they setup made no sense.  Badly handled.
I know I mentioned before how the guards acting dumb bugged me.  But holy fuck, the idiocy of the security forces in this season was completely immersion breaking.  Like "There and entire fort full of men with rifles shooting at us.  The obvious attack is to stand up straight and walk towards them in an open field without trying to take any cover."  Holy shit, even a grocery clerk with a gun wouldn't do that.  Honestly, the hosts doing so well relied on security being unbelievably dumb.  When they took the mesa they had to have them break through choke points off screen and then show them fighting close quarters because I think they knew there was no way they could show them physically doing it.

From earlier in this thread:
Quote
Re: the hosts dropping cryptic hints about the maze -- my take is that some of the hosts in the fringes of the park have been able to retain more memories than the hosts in the Sweetwater area (who generally get more attention and more rollbacks), and have built a mystical religion around their insights.  It's made explicit that some of them have knowledge of the guys in hazmat suits and explain them as being from the afterlife.  So some of them might have found Dolores's maze (maybe Arnold embedded it deep in the core code of all the hosts, like the reveries, and Dolores was the first to be able to access it but never meant to be the only one) and incorporated it into their religion, and they know enough about it to know that it's not for the "newcomers".

Good job on more or less calling it Sam!

Delos is presented as entirely money driven, but there is no particular plan to make money with this, and if it is there it is far too long term to interest Delos as presented.

William has a line which could come straight from the underpants elves.

"If you can't see how seeing what people really are is profitable, you aren't the business man I thought" or something like that.

BUT I AM OK WITH THIS

I just see the project as William's weird obsession that grew out of his MMORPG addiction, and the Delos family as a victim of William's manipulation. Emily seems to take more or less the same view. It isn't very convincing, but ok because it is premise not plot.

Guys, seriously.  They were able to read the minds of every single guest and worker there and decode it into an algorithm. A profile, they kept calling them through the whole season.  This profile tells you exactly how that person will behave and react to everything.  They literally have read the minds of every rich and powerful fuck on the planet, and can calculate exactly what choices they'll make to any given situation or proposition.  If you can't see the insane money making potential in that......

Anyways, that was the money making pitch, with immortality the next step.  Williams just started going off the deep end because he read his own profile and didn't like what it said.

Though boy, no idea where the hell they'll be taking this next.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on May 06, 2019, 10:07:06 AM
The Delos money-making plan is bascially Google's entire business model.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: calapine on May 06, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
Delos secruity being totally inept is a small thing. Honestly, the entire series depends on humans being extremely dumb. It's basically about creating a superior-human-version-2 without ever realizing or taking steps to mitigate.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on May 19, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
The teaser for this before GoT completely blew my mind, I thought it was a brand new show that looked incredibly interesting until the WW logo came up at the end.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Trippy on May 19, 2019, 09:52:15 PM
Westworld III - HBO 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deSUQ7mZfWk


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: HaemishM on May 19, 2019, 10:48:06 PM
JESSE!!!


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on May 19, 2019, 10:48:34 PM
Considering how shit season 2 was I hope they do go a completely different direction and do something interesting.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Cyrrex on May 20, 2019, 02:29:34 AM
I LOVED season 1, but season 2 was resoundly "meh" in comparison.  I just assumed this was done.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Threash on May 20, 2019, 07:39:41 AM
Considering how shit season 2 was I hope they do go a completely different direction and do something interesting.

It certainly looks like they are going in a completely different direction, so much so that I had no idea it even was a WW teaser. Not that I agree the second season was bad.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Ironwood on May 20, 2019, 12:29:19 PM
Considering how shit season 2 was I hope they do go a completely different direction and do something interesting.

That's, like, your opinion man.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Morat20 on May 26, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
I LOVED season 1, but season 2 was resoundly "meh" in comparison.  I just assumed this was done.
Season 2 put a lot on the viewer, without any real rails to help them get what the fuck was going on.

I mean in theory it was a cool idea ("let's play with fragmented memory and an uncertain timeline") but in practice they needed to give viewers something to latch on to so they could put it together themselves. Not just whatever die-hard fans caught all the clues hidden in one frame buried in corners or whatever.

There's ways to do mixed up chronologies, plenty of them, and they don't have to be that "WTF". It just seemed like they took a decent idea and turned it up to 11 to make it the "mystery" instead of using it as a storytelling device.

They could have used it to showcase motivations, highlight plots and character development, and still left viewers with a coherent idea of what the hell was going on. Let the disjointed time-flow illustrate the seeds of later decisions, why they chose to do what they did, why certain events came to pass the way they did, etc.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Cyrrex on May 27, 2019, 12:56:06 AM
My main reason for liking season 1 more is probably because I prefer the "spoiled rich assholes having fun in a themepark at the expense of synths who are not yet quite aware of what is happening to them" part of the show.  I really like where S1 went at the end, but for S2 I was hoping more for a bit of damage control and a reset.  Instead we got synth apocalypse, and the evil corporation trying to fight it off.  I want more robot themepark, where we don't really know who is who or what is what. 

Still one of my favorite series.  I just think they are going for the money shot a bit too quickly.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Abagadro on May 27, 2019, 02:34:29 AM
It's all production design and some solid actors given dog shit to work with but managing to be engaging.  There was about 90 minutes of interesting plotting in S2 and a whole lot of flack obscuring it.  I really hope they get their shit together in S3 and have an actual fucking point.


Title: Re: Westworld
Post by: Teleku on May 27, 2019, 10:34:28 AM
That's, like, your opinion man.