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Author Topic: Index/Oculus/Vive/PSVR  (Read 61790 times)
Falconeer
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Reply #490 on: July 23, 2019, 02:07:14 PM

I understand. I am sorry.

Also, Joe Rogan is a virus. I had to right click one of his videos and choose "I am not interested in this". Gone. But he was in five videos out of ten recommended ones for a while for me. Weird.

Trippy
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Reply #491 on: July 23, 2019, 02:21:52 PM

Yeah the problem is he shows up in videos that other people are commenting for me too so it's not enough for me to remove just his channel.
Sky
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Reply #492 on: July 23, 2019, 03:20:02 PM

I contracted the Joe Rogan last year after watching a Jordan Peterson video.

Trippy
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Reply #493 on: July 23, 2019, 03:23:30 PM

Well that make sense since Jordan, Ben and Joe are like the trifecta.
Cyrrex
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Reply #494 on: July 24, 2019, 12:11:23 AM

I wouldn't entirely dismiss the minecraft experience in 3d because I can't stand around with controllers, but you do you.

I suppose what I mean is that if you had a working xbox controller on the one hand, and working Index controllers on the other, and both worked for a given game, you will almost certainly want to use the Index controllers.  The only exceptions I can think of are things like flight sims or driving sims, because those are things where you don't really need or want your arms moving independently.

If you had no choice?  Sure.  Some people play New Vegas (using a bit of software that does a VR conversion) with an xbox controller.  If I simply had to play a Fallout game and didn't already have FO4VR, I would probably give it a go.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #495 on: July 24, 2019, 01:28:08 AM

Oh, and to be fair and balanced and whatnot, there is a market of sorts for things like Hellblade: Senua's sacrifice, where you would definitely use a controller.  It's third person (over the shoulder), so being removed like that makes it work better in your brain.  There are a few other examples too....Moss is a highly regarded game, and I think it uses a controller.  Platformer of sorts.

But those kind of games are less common.  Partly because over the shoulder third person stuff requires a stomach of iron.  Also, because platformers and other types of games don't reap the same benefits of VR.  There are various experiments with sim type games or top down isometric stuff, but since you are inherently "removed" from the action by default, it doesn't make sense to force them into VR. On the contrary, you would lose the control benefits of the mouse and keyboard.  It would be cool and novel, but you would ultimately end up wanting to take the HMD off and play it in normal 2D.

But back to Hellblade for a second, that is a great example of what I hope will happen going forward.  A game that is considered pretty decent in its own right that ALSO offers a VR option.  Same with No Man's Sky (retroactively).  And Bethesda's stuff.  As has been mentioned before, Valve are themselves working on three "big" titles for VR.  If I had to place a very small wager, I would guess that some kind of Portal game will be one of them.  Or some HL variation (2.5?), or even L4D.  And if they do make any one of those three?  I would also wager they will be making a regular pancake version.  Because can you imagine them coming out with Portal 3 and it being only VR?  People would lose their shit, and rightly so perhaps.  Smart money is that they will release for both platforms.  Win-win.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Mandella
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Reply #496 on: July 24, 2019, 04:04:51 PM

Oh, and to be fair and balanced and whatnot, there is a market of sorts for things like Hellblade: Senua's sacrifice, where you would definitely use a controller.  It's third person (over the shoulder), so being removed like that makes it work better in your brain.  There are a few other examples too....Moss is a highly regarded game, and I think it uses a controller.  Platformer of sorts.

But those kind of games are less common.  Partly because over the shoulder third person stuff requires a stomach of iron.  Also, because platformers and other types of games don't reap the same benefits of VR.  There are various experiments with sim type games or top down isometric stuff, but since you are inherently "removed" from the action by default, it doesn't make sense to force them into VR. On the contrary, you would lose the control benefits of the mouse and keyboard.  It would be cool and novel, but you would ultimately end up wanting to take the HMD off and play it in normal 2D.

But back to Hellblade for a second, that is a great example of what I hope will happen going forward.  A game that is considered pretty decent in its own right that ALSO offers a VR option.  Same with No Man's Sky (retroactively).  And Bethesda's stuff.  As has been mentioned before, Valve are themselves working on three "big" titles for VR.  If I had to place a very small wager, I would guess that some kind of Portal game will be one of them.  Or some HL variation (2.5?), or even L4D.  And if they do make any one of those three?  I would also wager they will be making a regular pancake version.  Because can you imagine them coming out with Portal 3 and it being only VR?  People would lose their shit, and rightly so perhaps.  Smart money is that they will release for both platforms.  Win-win.



The Hellblade thing might actually be the killer ap for me, oddly enough. I'm playing through the 2D version now, and I could see how I could play and enjoy it "the wrong way" -- i.e. by sitting on my ass in my comfy couch with dogs piled over me and using a mouse and keyboard or controller. Over the shoulder removes the need to match movements with a virtual body, but the visuals would still be worth the experience.

Plus I have said stomach of iron.

On the other hand, over-the-shoulder view in VR could feel pretty stalkerish... You're not *playing* Senua or Laura Croft or whoever, you are *following* them...

 this guy looks legit
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #497 on: July 24, 2019, 09:28:15 PM

They can have my keyboard + mouse when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers.  why so serious?  

And until they accommodate them or replace them with something better, VR will be at best a niche that I won't be participating in until it is much cheaper.

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Reply #498 on: July 24, 2019, 11:58:32 PM

I have probably said as much before, but I think it is wrong to see VR as a "replacement" for normal gaming.  It is more like it opens up a new avenue for gaming.  You would still want to play certain things in pancake mode, although obviously you would be dividing your time a bit.  A VR keyboard and mouse analog might eventually change that, but it doesn't feel like we are close to that.  It is not a relaxing experience, generally speaking, which PC gaming often is.  Some of it is downright fucking intense in a way PC gaming rarely is.

Back to Senua...the over the shoulder is cool as shit, but unless you have specifically tried it, don't be so sure your stomach is up to it  awesome, for real 

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #499 on: July 25, 2019, 05:45:16 AM

Has been flying low enough to escape my radar, but Borderlands 2 is coming to PC VR probably soon (already on Playstation I think?).  That's interesting, to say the least.

Also learned that the one and only VR MMO (called Orbus) has a demo, so I will sacrifice myself to at least take at least a quick look.  Some think it is great, others say it suck.  I am betting on the latter.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #500 on: July 25, 2019, 06:08:38 AM

Part 10:  Anything else

Nothing new here as such, but I find myself compelled to rehash and re-consider a couple things for the benefit of anyone playing along at home, and make a few points clear regarding the Index.

First, I think it is important to re-re-re highlight the need for floor space.  Yes, there is a "Standing Only" configuration option, and yes, some people probably do Room Scale at as little as 1.5 x 1.5 meters.  But honestly, you shouldn't be looking at this kind of VR if you have to operate within those limitations.  IMO, anything less than....3 x 2.5 meters would absolutely suck.  I already find that 4 x 3 meters has me dreaming that I had 5 x 5 instead.  You have to have space.  You also have to be willing to mount lighthouses and have a bunch of unsightly cables all over the place.  You may even have to sort of be willing to re-arrange furniture and sacrifice other normal PC comforts.  I don't have a desk any more, for example.  If you cannot do some or most of these things, a different kind of VR (or no VR) should be in your sights.  Fuck, my entire living room is designed around making a space for VR.  I even have a little throw rug in the middle of the floor looking totally out of place.  It is a VR touchstone.  Yes, I am a psycho, thanks for asking.

The machine.  As stated before, I have an i9 9700k and a GTX1080 running this thing.  That's on a Z390 gamer board, a bunch of RAM (that could probably benefit from being a bit faster tbh) and two SSDs.  Which is basically to say that, while not as top of the line as it obviously could be, this is a powerful and goddamn expensive rig.  And while a straight swap from a Vive to an Index on the same hardware does give an obvious and automatic boost to the quality of the VR experience.......man, I wish my machine was faster.  I am not having an internal struggle in terms of whether or not I should upgrade my video card.  Because it is already an absolute certainty that I will.  It is only a question of whether it will be a 2080 or a 2080 Ti.  Or if I can hold out long enough for the prices to come down or something even faster to come along.

Value is relative.  To me, it is worth it, but I think it bears repeating that this is a pretty expensive hobby to get into.  A thousand bucks just to get the HMD and equipment.  A couple thousand more for the PC, unless you already meet some of the specs.  And then you need games, because little or none of what you currently have works with it. 

Just wanted to get this out of the way, because my conclusion is coming up next, and I will generally make it as an evalution of the hardware, and not so much around the cost and convenience.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Mandella
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Reply #501 on: July 25, 2019, 01:16:41 PM

The need to rearrange things is definitely one of the factors I think about when contemplating a VR setup. My media room is certainly big enough but I'd need to move one sofa when I played, but it would be simple enough to just slide it back and forth. The bigger consideration is that I have dogs, and I would hate to be punting them around as I played. On the other hand, it probably wouldn't take them very long to figure out when the hooman is wearing the box over his eyes the idiot can't see but is still staggering around.

I do have a mostly unused "office" room which actually houses my gaming computer (as I mention frequently I stream from it). I could clean it out and play there (it's 4x4 or so), but then I actually like not being shut off from the dogs and wife when gaming.

It's another reason why I kinda like the idea of focusing on games where I can mostly continue sitting on my butt when playing.

Back on over-the-shoulder view, I cannot imagine how it would feel to do Tomb Raider from that perspective as Laura Croft jumps off ledges and slides down wires...
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Reply #502 on: July 25, 2019, 01:36:33 PM

Will get back later on some of your other points, but.....I am suddenly thinking maybe there is a Tomb Raider VR demo or something?  Hmm.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Rendakor
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Reply #503 on: July 25, 2019, 03:07:28 PM

I wouldn't entirely dismiss the minecraft experience in 3d because I can't stand around with controllers, but you do you.
I suppose what I mean is that if you had a working xbox controller on the one hand, and working Index controllers on the other, and both worked for a given game, you will almost certainly want to use the Index controllers.  The only exceptions I can think of are things like flight sims or driving sims, because those are things where you don't really need or want your arms moving independently.
Modded Minecraft falls into that same category. I get that I'm getting a little neckbeardy here, but there just aren't enough buttons for all of the various things you need to do in order to function in any kind of modpack on a controller (Xbox or VR). There aren't enough on a keyboard most of the time, so you end up with overlaps and hope they don't cause too big of a conflict. In some distance future, a VR-friendly UI that puts context-relevant buttons on your screen that you can touch in VR (or voice commands, or...) would be awesome. Do I expect we'll ever get that for Minecraft? No. Short of that, you can pry the keyboard from my cold dead hands. Swinging a VR controller to replicate a pickaxe is not what I want from VR; being able to just look around with a VR headset sounds amazing, but not at the cost of the gameplay experience (either by losing mods or worse controls).

Since I'm bored at work, here's a halfassed list of things that need buttons in modded Minecraft aside from movement:

In my ideal world, I suppose I would have a keyboard for my left hand, either a mouse or a VR controller in my right, and a VR headset. The headset would control looking around, the mouse/VR controller would move the cursor (behavior that I don't think MC can do), with the keyboard controlling movement (WASD + spacebar) and everything UI related. A VR controller that I could easily sit down (in case I need the right hand on the keyboard) might be a nice replacement for a mouse.

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Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #504 on: July 25, 2019, 03:12:26 PM

... I think it is wrong to see VR as a "replacement" for normal gaming.  It is more like it opens up a new avenue for gaming.  You would still want to play certain things in pancake mode, although obviously you would be dividing your time a bit.  A VR keyboard and mouse analog might eventually change that, but it doesn't feel like we are close to that.


I half agree with that. Certainly HMD is unlikely to ever be your only, or even primary, display choice.  But it seems like HMD could be an alternative display for many kinds of normal gaming, if the input issues were addressed.  My favored solution would be a reverse AR passthrough to let me see my keyboard and hands superimposed on the game display, but only when I actually look down at it. The knuckles or a glove type input device could easily emulate a mouse provided the tracking accuracy is good enough, and I mean emulate by dragging your finger around on your desktop to move a cursor when that is more appropriate, rather than always having to point at something in 3D space.  Granted, there is no value added for the extra hassle/discomfort of an HMD when playing Minesweeper. But there could be significant value added to almost any first person game, be it MMO, RPG, survival, shooter, minecraft or whatever, without piling on the hassle of half-baked control schemes using clumsy, ill-fitting, low fidelity, hand hardware to track armwaving, much less requiring it to morph into an exercise program with a game attached.

Quote
  It is not a relaxing experience, generally speaking, which PC gaming often is.  Some of it is downright fucking intense in a way PC gaming rarely is.

This is entirely the fault of the developers focusing on implementing all the handwaving, jumping around, scary 3D movie effects, etc in their games because of the wow! new! marketing bs factors, whether the games need it or not. I understand Elite Dangerous can be a pretty relaxing and awesome experience in VR - too bad it's crippled by the need to use a keyboard (or the crappy console accomodation) sometimes.  I just don't understand why developers think they can make more money by targeting a sliver of a niche market (wealthy first person gamers with lots of space, full mobility including two working arms and an interest in jumping around using them while gaming) instead of at least the entire niche (all first person gaming).

I would like to say thanks for the writeup and discussion!  I may not be in the market for a VR rig for quite awhile, if ever, but the topic certainly fascinates me and I'm having a blast watching it mature, dreaming, and debating it. :)

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Reply #505 on: July 28, 2019, 05:41:36 AM

I think a better way to look at it is that - until they find a convincing way to do some kind of pass-through or virtual keyboard, then the kind of games we get are the kinds of games that generally make them most sense in accordance with the state of the hardware.

Anyway, just on a related note and because it has already been mentioned:  I am pretty sure you can play Minecraft in VR using any input you want.  You could just part your butt in your chair and use your kb+m.  I mean....I personally would not see the appeal, but I have no doubt many people would.  If you were good enough to be able to find all of your keys in the dark, it would probably be pretty sweet.

Updates regarding 360 videos:  Been two years since last I tried any.  They still basically fucking suck.  The resolution is way too low for any of the stuff that is free, and it is basically a complete barf fest.  I will try to get my hands on something with real 4k resolution and see if that helps.  But clearly, 360 video is not the same as virtual reality.  Yeah, you can turn around and see stuff behind you, but it has no real depth.  Porn in 180 is more convincing from what I can see.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #506 on: August 02, 2019, 06:23:26 AM

So....I guess Garrys Mod can be played in VR.  I wouldn't be interested in the regular version of this, but VR?  Interesting.

More interesting is that apparently it then let's you play Half-Life 2 and maybe also CS:GO (!).  Needs some investigation to see if this is worth it or not.

Currently otherwise trying to get my Index working with Oculus software (there is a mod called ReVive that enables this), but it is causing me some issues thus far, at least for the two actual Oculus games I have.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #507 on: August 05, 2019, 02:00:54 AM

Haven't bothered picking up Garry's Mod, don't really have time just now.  And also, more importantly, the No Man's Sky update is coming on August 14th, and that will include the VR mod.  I am pretty excited about this.  Exactly the sort of game that should excel in VR.  I have never played the game, picked it up cheaply through somewhat respectable sources.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #508 on: August 16, 2019, 01:10:30 AM

Alright, No Man's Sky in VR.  First, the obvious negatives....

-It runs like shit.  From a pure framerate perspective, it is worse than Fallout by a significant amount, which makes it the new champion of shitty VR framerate performance.  On the other hand, it ends up running well enough for the most part, as the Motion Smoothing technology works better with NMS for some reason.  In any case, they really really really need to find a way to get more juice out of this one.  It is playable, but only just.

-While the adaptation to VR appears to have been done well, it is mostly a graphical conversion.  It wants you to stay rooted in place, which is mildly annoying, and many of the interactions with objects are based on button presses rather than actual hand motions.  Kinda 50/50.  One might wish for it to be a bit more interactive than it is, because some of it comes off as a bit clumsy somehow.

The positives...

-When you get it running well enough, it actually looks pretty fucking cool even on the lowest settings.  Pretty surreal.
-I had spent two hours playing before I knew it.  Clearly sucked me in.  I usually hate crafting games, but maybe this is different.
-For those of you who would like to sit on your ass and still have an interactive VR experience, this seems to fit the bill.


I have only just made it off my first planet and landed on my second.  Had to go journey off to find some copper.  The native animals on this planet are aggressive and numerous.  I actually have a constant running battle with them, using my mining laser to keep them at bay and jump up on my ship when I need a break.  What a fucking weird game.

Anyway, I am hoping for some performance patching.  The usual tweaks aren't quite doing the job.  This shit would look amazing if I could turn up the framerate and resolution.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 01:34:00 AM by Cyrrex »

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #509 on: August 16, 2019, 10:35:21 AM

-For those of you who would like to sit on your ass and still have an interactive VR experience, this seems to fit the bill.

This is me.

What a fucking weird game.

Yep.

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Reply #510 on: August 16, 2019, 11:30:22 AM

For the sake of some of you lazy asses, I will try to be mindful of testing some stuff sitting down.  To see what works and what doesn’t.  I mean, you could do it with a lot of the games, but it just wouldn’t make sense for a lot of them.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #511 on: August 16, 2019, 12:24:05 PM

For the sake of some of you lazy asses, I will try to be mindful of testing some stuff sitting down.  To see what works and what doesn’t.  I mean, you could do it with a lot of the games, but it just wouldn’t make sense for a lot of them.


From the bottom of my butt, I thank you!

 why so serious?
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Reply #512 on: August 17, 2019, 09:52:10 AM

NMS feels great to me as a seated experience, it's a great 'chill in my comfy recliner' game. I've already wasted hours on this update in VR. Also agree, while I've got it running pretty good at this point, it can use some performance tweaks, so hopefully they continue to work on that. One thing to note about performance, there appears to be a lot of misinformation out there about what helps (big surprise there, I know). I had gone down the rat hole the first night and came out worse for wear. Decided to blow away all my settings and the save, and the game cache, and clean start. Minor tweaks from there and it's running, and looking, a lot better.
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Reply #513 on: August 17, 2019, 11:53:53 AM

.....so what is working for you?

I am currently running it at 80hz, with SS at about 100 percent (which means it is over sampled in the Index), but basically every else at standard and AA is off.  I am basically just getting 40fps, where motion smoothing then makes up the 40 frames.  It is surprisingly playable at those numbers, but I would love to turn some shit up.

I also have no idea what kind of hardware you are running.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #514 on: August 17, 2019, 04:29:45 PM

I'm a Traditional Gamer. I'm not in a Zigerion simulation so I assume the way you move around a VR game is:
1. Use controller Left Stick or keyboard WASD
2. Rail (shooter)
3. Underpants gnomes

The point about playing Nomansky via Dualshock 4 is appealing because I know how that will work. I'm assuming every other method of moving around a VR game world is somewhere on the Spectrum of Horseshit. Please educate me.

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Reply #515 on: August 17, 2019, 07:51:06 PM

.....so what is working for you?

I am currently running it at 80hz, with SS at about 100 percent (which means it is over sampled in the Index), but basically every else at standard and AA is off.  I am basically just getting 40fps, where motion smoothing then makes up the 40 frames.  It is surprisingly playable at those numbers, but I would love to turn some shit up.

I also have no idea what kind of hardware you are running.
I'll copy what I posted at another forum, but for clarity I'm forcing ASW on in the tray tool.
Quote
Playing with a Rift S. So yeah, following too much early info regarding chasing performance proved to be a mistake for me. So I decided to start clean. Last night I updated my Nvidia drivers (running a laptop with a 1080, i7 7820hk, 32gb memory, NVME drive), forced Vsync, FXAA and Threaded Optimization off in nvidia properties, and blew away my save files, game cache, and config files. Then patched NMS to latest (via Steam), then verified integrity for good measure.

It ran immensely better right out of the gate than the mess I had modified it to. In game, set max fps to 80, set to full screen to match native laptop res (2560x1440), blur to 0, scan lines(?) off, Ansiotropic to 8, AA off, HBAO to high, and everything else to Enhanced. I also forced ASW on and set SS to 1.0 via Oculus Tray Tool. It's now looking way better and running pretty good. Still the occasional hitching or whatever you call it but I can live with that.

Last night I think I even bumped textures up a step. I'll confirm where I'm at tomorrow, I'm too wiped for VR tonight.

I will say don't expect flawless, there are hitches here and there, but nothing that is keeping me from continuing to play. That said I'm of the "we're still early adoption phase of this VR shit so I can deal" in general with VR games and performance/quality/etc. The only things that really bug in NMS so far are the jaggies, only during the daytime, on the ridgelines of distance mountain ranges where the sky meets them, it's like an entirely different resolution I don't get it and doesn't look that way at night. And the wacko reflections or shadows or whatever when looking over water.
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Reply #516 on: August 18, 2019, 04:31:23 AM

Interesting choices.  I will try some of that.  I am okay with less than flawless.  Cannot expect too much with a 1080.

I'm a Traditional Gamer. I'm not in a Zigerion simulation so I assume the way you move around a VR game is:
1. Use controller Left Stick or keyboard WASD
2. Rail (shooter)
3. Underpants gnomes

The point about playing Nomansky via Dualshock 4 is appealing because I know how that will work. I'm assuming every other method of moving around a VR game world is somewhere on the Spectrum of Horseshit. Please educate me.

Okay, put it this way.  Imagine you were holding your Dualshock in a VR environment.  Now, pretend it splits right down the middle.  You now have thumbstick and button control in each hand.  You are probably using your left hand to move or slide around your game.  You have buttons on each hand to do all your pew pew and whatnot.  You even have a thumbstick in the right hand for whatever.

Now, imagine that on top of that, you can now also point with either of your half DS controllers.  The one in your left not only helps you move/slide around, but you can influence your direct by pointing it wherever you want.  In the right hand, you no longer have to rely on the clumsy thumbstick to aim....you just aim it like you are holding a mining laser, gun, or whatever.

On top of that, you can simply turn your head, or even turn your whole body around, by doing that in the real world without needing your controllers.  You can use your controller to aid you in doing that if you want, but you do not have to.

Your controllers also become your hands and finger for when you need to press a button or open a hatch.

You can also squat down in the real world, causing you to squat down in VR.  You can go prone.  In NMS, these things don’t matter, but they sure as shit do in other games like Skyrim and Fallout.

And lastly, although it is not enabled for NMS (thanks, PSVR), you can usually literally walk around your real world space and interact with stuff.  In some games it is where you take several steps over an pull a switch or something.  Other times, you just kinda move half a step over to loot a corpse.

Almost all of these things, even when clumsily implemented, are an improvement over Dualshock control.  There are exceptions....flight stick control and steering wheel control are probably better regular controllers.

That’s my best effort at describing it.  The real negative is the physical effort that comes with it.  Especially if you simply do not want to stand.  I wouldn’t even recommend an Index if that is the case.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #517 on: August 18, 2019, 09:01:37 PM

I have a pretty small area to move around in and so won't be able to walk far in the real. Which seems OK as long as I can use the stick to move.

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Reply #518 on: August 19, 2019, 12:54:56 AM

While the whole idea behind "room scale" is that you can actually walk around and use all of that space - and there are a number of games specifically designed for that - in the real world what it means is that you have a safe bubble around you in which you can move.  Dodge, swing, crounch, lay down, pick up stuff, etc.....without smashing into furniture or walls.  90% of the time, you just want to have enough room to safely do those things.  If something is a ways out of your reach, you use the thumbstick to navigate to it.  If that same thing is two feet a way, you physically shuffle over to it and pick it up. 

In theory, you can do this in as little as 2 x 2 meters.  But fuuuuuuuck that.  You find yourself so immersed into shit sometimes that it is far too easy to encroach on the boundaries.  You would have to mentally train yourself to root your feet to the spot.  I would find that annoying.  As it is now, I have the virtual wall set up at something around 4m x 3m, and the wall actually illuminates if you get close to it.  I have a centering mark in VR so that I always know where front and center is if I look for the mark.  I also have a 1.5m diameter fluffy carpet center in the space, because having a physical touchstone has proven to be very handy.  And still.....I occasionally get carried away enough to punch random furniture.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #519 on: August 19, 2019, 09:32:03 AM

That's another reason I'm not interested in the stuff you gush about, and just want a good 3D experience with existing controls. It's not because I don't 'get it', it's because my available area for VR might be 6ftx8ft, with many MANY unpunchable things in or around it (guitars, lamps, etc). I don't have room in my house to waste on 'open space'.

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Reply #520 on: August 19, 2019, 11:09:48 AM

Yep, but you are getting close to the minimum recommended space.  And as said before, I will try to park my butt on a chair for some stuff and let you know what I think.  I already know i will be a bit dumb for things like Fallout and Skyrim, but NMS works and I can think of several others as well.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #521 on: August 19, 2019, 11:50:33 AM

Just wanted to add in that if I ever have to "go prone" in a game I hope the rest of the game is playable from the floor, cause I'm not getting back up anytime soon.

That said, I am interested in reading about all styles of the VR experience, so don't stop describing the more physical games -- just keep in mind that some of us aren't primarily the customers for that sort of experience but are still pretty interested in VR.

This Christmas might be the time I take the plunge too...
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Reply #522 on: August 19, 2019, 01:03:41 PM

Noted.  It’s not like you HAVE to do those things, but if you can do so it sure improves the experience.  Sneaking around in FO and Skyrim - especially the latter - is very rewarding.

I expect all of you would be interested in some basic melee stuff, despite protestations to the contrary.  You can generally do that stuff without too much exertion.  Beatsaber (not a melee fighting game, but close enough) is extremely popular for a reason.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #523 on: August 19, 2019, 02:53:39 PM

Oh I am looking forward to looking like a complete fool to anyone watching me play Beat Saber.

That one is definitely the exception.
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Reply #524 on: August 20, 2019, 02:09:15 AM

I think I am becoming sold on an Oculus Quest, perhaps for Christmas. No wires, decent resolution, sounds like it just works. Steam VR through ALVR is very good by all accounts. Currently all I have is a Gear VR, but apparently ALVR works with that so I'm planning to set it up and see how I like it (and imagine more pixels).
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